Amazon Fighting FTC Over In-App Purchases Fine 137
An anonymous reader writes One of the common problems of the smartphone generation has been parents who given their phones to children, who then rack up hundreds of dollars of in-app purchases without the parents' knowledge. The FTC smacked Apple with a fine for this, and Google is facing a lawsuit as well. Now, Amazon is the latest target, having received a complaint from the FTC demanding a similar settlement to Apple's. Amazon, however, is not willing to concede the fine; they plan to fight it. Amazon said, "The Commission's unwillingness to depart from the precedent it set with Apple despite our very different facts leaves us no choice but to defend our approach in court (PDF). The main claim in the draft complaint is that we failed to get customers' informed consent to in-app charges made by children and did not address that problem quickly or effectively enough in response to customer complaints. We have continually improved our experience since launch, but even at launch, when customers told us their kids had made purchases they didn't want, we refunded those purchases."
It's Intended (Score:5, Informative)
It's Intended (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem here is that parents/kids don't have enough authentication to block purchases being made by the wrong person... there really should be better security like face recognition to say "Uhm, kid, that costs money!" or "Parent, you can't spend your kid's money for them!"
Re:It's Intended (Score:5, Informative)
In app purchases should be banned. They're horrible for the industry, in some cases they're no better than gambling (ie: buy tokens to feed into this jackpot like system to win a random digital item!). At the very least they should have a maximum any one user can spend before everything becomes free.
Re:It's Intended (Score:4, Insightful)
Not that I disagree with you, but what part of the gaming industry isn't preying off of exactly the same neurons as gambling? Nearly every game, be you buying the game itself, in-game purchases, or DLC, is getting its revenue almost entirely due to exploiting pleasure-seeking behavior.
Re:It's Intended (Score:5, Interesting)
Not that I disagree with you, but what part of the gaming industry isn't preying off of exactly the same neurons as gambling? Nearly every game, be you buying the game itself, in-game purchases, or DLC, is getting its revenue almost entirely due to exploiting pleasure-seeking behavior.
Gaming typically relies on skill, not chance. If you play most games long enough, you'll be able to consistently beat certain levels. If you win at the roulette wheel, you're no more likely than before to win again. That's the difference. Otherwise, "exploiting pleasure-seeking behavior" could be stretched to describe every last industry in existence beyond the sales of food, water, shelter, and basic utilities.
With the model of directly purchasing the game itself (and no in-game purchases, like standard PC/console gaming) you can at least read about the game and have a reasonable expectation about what you are paying for. The real problem with in-game purchases is that the game is "free" or low-cost in the most technical sense, but after you invest many hours advancing the game you find that you can't really prosper without making additional purchases. It could be construed as a form of bait-and-switch.
The other problem would be that many of these games are aimed at children who make purchases the parents later get stuck with, but this problem begins in the home and should be solved within the home by actual parenting. That's not as convenient as using the tablet like a cheap babysitter but it would certainly be more worthwhile. If you wanted to solve this by government action, that's simple too: declare that these purchases are contractual in nature (the parent agreed to pay charges made to the phone bill or whatever) and that minors who make them cannot be held to a contract, therefore the companies cannot collect money when children make them. *Poof* - end of shitty business model.
Re: (Score:2)
ty
Re: (Score:2)
The only in app purchasing I can't decide is legit or not is Collectible Card games... Buying pre-defined sets of cards is fine, no different than DLC, though it severely limits the fun. Are the randomized packs akin to gambling or a necessary evil of the genre? If there was no randomness then buying individual cards/decks just becomes an "outspend" the other guy and developers could just keep upping the ante slightly so new cards are always a little better than the old ones.
Not sure...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Pretty sure that's always been the MO for CCG's, even before they became electronic...
Very true, it's slightly different in the digital world though. Cards can be "rebalanced" after purchase, no digital CCG has provided the ability to sell your cards so they don't retain value, they are limited to the game in which you purchase (thinking of Magic games which release a new version each year but can't transfer decks)...
That said back in the day I spent a crapload on ChronX and didn't regret a penny of it.
Re:It's Intended (Score:4, Insightful)
The pleasure seeking isn't the problem, it's the money->chance->loop. When you buy a game outright/DLC/etc it's a fixed cost no matter what actual mechanics are in the game. The moment you buy tokens (or gems or whatever name they want to put on it) and you're feeding it into something that has any sort of random generator it creates an entirely different dynamic. Companies would have a vested interest in tweaking the "randomness" of an item/game mechanic/etc.
Same issue arises with non-random items. Take a game that sells health packs - the developers could tweak damage output without the user knowing to encourage more purchases.
Re: (Score:2)
what part of the gaming industry isn't preying off of exactly the same neurons as gambling?
It's just fine if they 'prey' off the exact same neurons as gambling. Selling a game package for a fixed dollar amount, or a subscription fee agreed upon before you start playing should be just fine. The customer is agreeing to payment for entertainment, which is clearly without coercion, since they have not started playing yet.
Selling an 'expansion pack' containing additional content while users are not playing
Re: (Score:2)
Why? People can show me adverts for a game I don't own already to make me want to buy it. What is so magically different about showing me an advert in the game for something else that it needs laws creating to stop it?
Re: (Score:3)
What is so magically different about showing me an advert in the game for something else that it needs laws creating to stop it?
Because 'paying for more action' during gameplay is fundamentally the same as a slot machine at a casino; there's a big difference between placing an advertisement VS an "instant in-game purchase" experience of one of thousands of unlockables.
It should be treated exactly like casino gaming or other forms of paid gaming. (Personally, I am not in favor of it being banned compl
Re: (Score:3)
If you cant control yourself, then its your problem, not the app makers. Perhaps you need to seek professional help for your lack of control/addiction.
Re: (Score:2)
I have no issue thank you, I refuse to support games with that type of business model.
The app makers are preying on children who haven't developed an understanding of money/self-control and those with addiction/impulse issues - how is that not their fault?
Re: (Score:1)
Not supporting them is your right.
Them supporting their customers is their right. If their customers have issues, then they need to not use the products. I still suspect you have a severe issue with control and are staying away to avoid the problem. But hey, admitting you have the problem ( and avoiding triggers ) is the first step to recovery, so i commend you on that.
Re: (Score:2)
The legal requirement is the seller is to ensure the person making the purchase is the holder of the credit card, nothing more and nothing less. The commonly extort payment by threatening the holder of the card children with criminal charges even when under law the minor they threaten is to young to enter a contract. So the courts need to rule on real and actual harm. What is the real and actual harm engendered by a minor making a false purchase of a virtual product, would the parent have ever allowed the
Re: Apple forced cc and password for free apps (Score:1)
If the next word starts with a consonant sound, use "a" instead of "an".
An apple -- vowel sound
A password -- consonant sound
Re: (Score:3)
I opened my apple account with an iTunes gift card. That way my maximum loss is limited to whatever is left of the £15 balance on the card. I have purchased a couple of apps with some of the credit.
It's not just the refund (Score:5, Insightful)
I think Amazon's problem is going to be that just refunding the purchases doesn't help the parents. If the kid maxes out the credit-card on in-app purchases, the parents have to deal not just with those purchases but the fees and interest from over-limit charges on the card and/or the additional costs associated with any declined charges (eg. if I pay a bill on-line using my card and the charge is declined, I get hit for late fees and possibly service disconnections). Having this happen when you're out-of-town (eg. the kid does this while the family's on vacation, and when you go to check out of the hotel you can't pay your hotel bill and you have to figure out why without being able to check your accounts on-line to see what unexpected charges are there). The only acceptable way of handling things is what Amazon should've done from the start: once parental controls are turned on in an app, all actions that would cause a charge or affect parental controls always require a PIN (and ideally there'd be an option to say "don't allow charges period until parental controls are turned off again").
Re:It's not just the refund (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It's not just the refund (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, the problem is that Amazon doesn't have all the experience Apple has.
Why do you think there is a 15 minute timeout now? (iOS4)
Why do you think the 15 minute timeout is split between IAP and regular app store purchases (iOS5)?
Why do you think apps now have clearer markings on IAPs (iOS7)?
Apple ran into this, then implemented the safeguards - the 15 minute timeout because kids were clicking "buy now" without realizing it and running up thousand-dollar bills.
The split because mommy/daddy would get the ap
Re: (Score:2)
it doesn't matter if you pirate anymore (because pirates can't do IAPs and can be put in a disadvantage).
You might wanna have a look at Minion Rush.. either people on the top of the high score charts are *regularly* forking out $1000 to run up massive scores, or they're using a hack to get them tokens/bananas.
I've seen a lot of games that can "restore" purchases, but that's a lot different to confirming your current in-game balance as accurate every time you start the game.
Re: It's not just the refund (Score:1)
If Amazon was confusing users, sure they should be fined for fraud or deceptive marketing practices. I'm just wondering what you find confusing about "in-app purchases". They are purchases that made from within an app. When you make them, the app tells you it will cost real money and how much it will cost. If this is something that confuses you, perhaps you shouldn't own a credit card. Or have any control of your money.
Re: (Score:2)
Amazon is confusing users by making it so that setting the parental controls to "no in-app purchases allowed" leaves the game in a condition where in-app purchases are still allowed. If I get in a car, put the car into Reverse to back out of a parking spot, then put it in Drive to go forward, a reasonable person would expect the car to go forward. They wouldn't expect it to continue to act as if it were in Reverse for another few minutes before the Reverse setting expired and it began to act in accordance w
Re: (Score:2)
If you don't agree with how Amazon does it, don't buy their devices or use their appstore.
The problem with your "free market solution" is that most people are unaware of Amazon's policies until after they bought the device, bought the app, and have the charges on their card. Markets work well when people are well informed. But, in this case, people are NOT well informed, and Amazon has been intentionally deceptive.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem with your "free market solution" is that most people are unaware of Amazon's policies until after they bought the device
Why is it amazons problem that people are stupid?
Re: (Score:2)
Why? In what way is it better to have companies allowed to fleece children and their parents like this? What benefit is there to allowing it?
Re: (Score:1)
What benefit is there to allowing it?
Because he is a developer on Slashdot who likes the way things are presently done.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Answer the question. In what way is what you suggest better?
Right now you are blaming those parents that have been caught out by unknowing kids rather than the businesses who created their business models intending that exact thing.
At the moment you are presenting no reason that wouldn't also say phishing and spamming are OK and should be allowed. That you think that people that aren't 100 per cent in control of everything 100% of the time deserve to be ripped off. And that's somehow good.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously? Personal accountability should always be first and foremost.
Yes, seriously.
Why should personal accountability be first and foremost? To the extent that people who aren't guarded enough get punished. To the benefit of those who are trying to take advantage of them. In what way does that make the world a better place?
You know I keep on asking you how your view makes the world a better place, and you can't answer. All you keep doing is coming back with more assertions that you hold true. It's looking more and more like it's religion for you rather than rationality.
Re: (Score:3)
Right now you are blaming those parents that have been caught out
Yes. Right where the blame belongs.
We arent talking about fraud here. Amazon isn't pretending that the in-app purchases are free and then charging people anyways. Quite the contrary.
If you really dont want to be responsible for your actions, then let me take control of your life. You will love it. Living in a room with no windows (sunlight gives you cancer) or electricity (electricity is dangerous.) The door is locked because wandering around the world is dangerous. You will earn food by performing sim
Re: (Score:2)
We arent talking about fraud here. Amazon isn't pretending that the in-app purchases are free and then charging people anyways. Quite the contrary.
Whilst it's not fraud, clearly it isn't "quite the contrary", as the courts have criticised Amazon.
And coming up with your own set of bizarre rules is not an argument against employing reasonable consumer protection laws and regulations.
Re: (Score:2)
People aren't willing to accept responsibility for themselves and their kids. We shouldn't be forcing the companies to accept the responsibility instead. If you don't agree with how Amazon does it, don't buy their devices or use their appstore. If they feel they're losing too many customers based on their business practices.. they'll change them. Either way, they shouldn't be targeted by the FTC.
When I was a kid there wasn't some little box that both let me play games and run up a $1000 credit card bill. In order to spend my parent's money I'd need to get their wallet and drive to a store, or try to order something over the phone (and NOBODY would accept a phone order from some 6 year old). I doubt I'd have any idea what to do with a checkbook at that age.
Sure, I'm all for teaching responsibility, but giving device owners reasonable options for preventing unauthorized access to spending money is
Re: (Score:2)
When I was a kid there wasn't some little box that both let me play games and run up a $1000 credit card bill.
Yes there was. It was called a telephone.
Re: (Score:2)
When I was a kid there wasn't some little box that both let me play games and run up a $1000 credit card bill.
Yes there was. It was called a telephone.
Sure, and people could restrict the ability to make calls to pay numbers, which is what this whole issue is about.
I'll agree that you could call a long-distance phone number, but kids weren't too likely to do that for fun. I'd have been all for giving parents the ability to restrict access to making toll calls, though.
Re: (Score:2)
If that was clearly explained functionality then I expect you'd find very quick;y that no one would use that company. If it wasn't defined functionality or was a bug, then you'd see people suing the company for the error. You
Re: (Score:2)
If that was clearly explained functionality then I expect you'd find very quick;y that no one would use that company.
I guess that they would just use the other local cable company. Oh wait, back in the 80s there wasn't ANY competition for the local cable company. Today there is hardly any competition, which isn't much better.
Re: (Score:2)
completely missing the point.
unless companies help the parents out the only sane option for the parents is to shut off access to paid content completely, as it yank CC info.
who lost? exactly.
this is not about responsibility, this is business in the free market, pure and simple.
Re: (Score:1)
This is a simple case of Amazon failing to follow the rules of credit card charges. Amazon benefits from the practice of storing credit card information; if they don't adequately protect that stored information in a way which allows unauthorized charges to be made they should be held accountable for that lack of proper responsibility.
Re: (Score:2)
This. And while the government is at it, please fine the bajeezus out of Amazon for having a "disable" switch on one-click that doesn't actually disable one-click in large parts of their website (e.g. Amazon Instant Video). I complained about this, and they said to set a PIN on the account to prevent purchases. Unfortunately, that also prevents streaming viewing, and there's no way whatsoever to prevent purchases or streaming of G-rated material, because there's no setting lower than "G".
Amazon has a lo
Re: (Score:2)
If this is the case, why does almost every country in the world have special laws around children and their inability to enter into contract
Re: (Score:2)
Why would you give someone who is 8 a device on which they have all the details they need to spend real money? Also, when they buy in game currency that screen will explicitly say how much real money you're spending. It's misleading to pretend that an 8 year old wouldn't be aware they were spending real money.
Re: (Score:2)
Why does the device which has the ability to spend real money not simply ask for the credit card number back to confirm the purchase? THis is the exact same mechanism amazon uses online to prevent fraud.
instead of "smurfberries" why doesn't the in-game purchase simply say you are going to spend [whatever unit of your currency] REAL money?
The abstraction is intentional.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: It's not just the refund (Score:2)
I think this lawsuit is more about the Kindle Fire, which is sold as a kid acceptable tablet, not the Fire Phone, which has barely even launched.
Re: (Score:2)
I think Amazon's problem is going to be that just refunding the purchases doesn't help the parents. If the kid maxes out the credit-card on in-app purchases, the parents have to deal not just with those purchases but the fees and interest from over-limit charges
Top recommendations: (1) Use a $20 pre-paid debit card as the CC loaded on your Tablet for in-app purchases, OR a Virtual Account Number (VAN),
Note... however.... I am sure Amazon themself should have a limit on the amount of in-app purchase
Re: (Score:2)
If you are stupid enough to give a your kid a Kindle Fire linked to a credit card then that is your stupid fault.
Both my nieces have Kindle Fires and firstly in app purchasing is turned off and secondly the only credit they have is from Amazon gift vouchers or free Amazon coins from various random give aways. There is zero requirement to link a credit card to a Kindle Fire to make purchases.
The biggest moan that we have is with the BBC iPlayer app. If you turn on parental controls you have to approve every
The Amazon AppStore Auto-consent (Score:5, Informative)
Nope, they need the penalty.
The Amazon AppStore app seems to have an update every two weeks. Every time it updates itself, it resets the values for IAP and parental controls. You need to manually go in after every update, disable IAP and confirm with the password, then manually reset the parental controls and confirm with the password. EVERY FREAKING TIME.
There was one instance (that I know of) that I didn't reset the parental controls and IAP flags after an update, and sure enough, that was when the kids discovered it and went on a spending spree.
NO EXCUSE for resetting the flags every update. They know about it. It isn't a bug, it is a feature that enables profits.
Re:The Amazon AppStore Auto-consent (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Because in the 70s you had to take bills from your parents (who had like $40 laying around) and you have to take that money to someone, who can clearly see that you are too young to be making any sort of financial decisions. If you can execute that transaction, you clearly know what money is and that you are doing something wrong.
Now you click the wrong buttons in a game, which your parents said you could play, and you've spent hundreds of dollars. You don't have to have any idea what money is to click a bu
Re:The Amazon AppStore Auto-consent (Score:5, Insightful)
They know about it. It isn't a bug, it is a feature that enables profits.
The games are purposefully engineered to be faulty so that you are *required* to make an in app purchase. And with the 'one click' nature of the in app purchases, it is easy for the game to make a purchase for you - either by mistake or by design!
Re:The Amazon AppStore Auto-consent (Score:4, Insightful)
THIS!
All of the excuses about how parents should know how the device works and blah blah blah cannot overcome this. Even if the parents do exactly what the scolds demand, Amazon goes behind their back and un-does it, contrary to reasonable expectation.
Re: (Score:1)
Even if the parents do exactly what the scolds demand
Looks to me like they demand that the parents take responsibility. How does anything said here undermine that?
Take Some Fucking Responsibility. Thats your kid, chief. You are letting your kid use a device that can charge up thousands of dollars in credit card bills, completely unsupervised, and you want to blame someone other than yourself?
Thats your fucking kid, chief. Be a fucking parent. Good parents dont let their children do that. Yes, this means that you arent a good parent Suck it up and be a be
Re: (Score:2)
The parents set it to NO in app purchases. They have good reason to believe that they have controlled the risk. Then Amazon sneaks in and un-sets it. Perhaps they should take some "Fucking Responsability".
I suppose if an airplane crashes on the house you'll blame the parents for the kid's injuries too?
Re: (Score:1)
The parents set it to NO in app purchases.
Yes, and?
They have good reason to believe that they have controlled the risk.
Lazy bad parent reasons.
Re: (Score:2)
If they required you to re-enter the credit-card at purchase time it would address a lot of this.
Are you serious? They used Amazons own controls to reduce the risk, and you still claim "lazy bad parent reasons"?
Perhaps you can explain why a game rated at age 8 allows in-app purchases? DO a lot of adults pl
Re: (Score:2)
Are you serious? They used Amazons own controls to reduce the risk, and you still claim "lazy bad parent reasons"?
Yes.
Stop blaming other people for what your child is doing. Man up and be a father.
Re: (Score:2)
Regardless, the law is often based on previous cases and each time this comes to the courts the company in question has lost and given refunds.
Let me guess, you develop games with in-app purchase and so you naturally want to exploit this loophole?
As i have st
Re: (Score:2)
Let me guess, you develop games with in-app purchase and so you naturally want to exploit this loophole?
yes, thats it.. couldn't possibly be that I have integrity and a moral compass and a strong belief in liberty... instead I am conspiring against you.
Take off the tinfoil hat, man up, and be a fucking dad to your child.
Re: (Score:2)
See where i said "As i have stated before, my kids have never had this issue as i made them create their own google play accounts and they dont have CC numbers. Flip side it is clear the companies involved shoulder some responsibility as well."
Now outline the part where I am not being a dad to my child?
Nothing like flying off the handle and making wild accusations (i am not a god father) with ZERO facts is there?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You seem to be on a crusade to slander every parent on here, despite you clearly knowing NOTHING about them to protect corporate profits at the expense of vulnerable members of society. This makes zero sense. Long ago they removed child labor laws, and changed the rules to protect children from being taken advantage of.
Kids are not adults, they can not be expected to make sound decisions which is specifically why they have different rules aro
Re: (Score:2)
There's no reason to interpret voiding a contract as requiring that a payment be returned. There would also be issues around the fact the child has no contract with the credit card provider, and that the person who does will have a contract with the credit card provider which they almost certainly broke by allowing someone else to use it.
None of the above says in-app purchases are right. I
Re: (Score:2)
Re:The Amazon AppStore Auto-consent (Score:5, Insightful)
What is next, blame Ford because your kid was able to steal your keys off your dresser and wreck the car while you are sleeping?
...if Ford made the key fob in the shape of a cartoon character with a voice chip that kept saying "Hey kids! Pick me up and lets go for a drive" then, maybe.
Yes, parents should take responsibility for their kids - but that doesn't give businesses the right to exploit their slightest lapse.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
If the parental controls do not work then indeed the company should be blamed. and resetting the password on updates is a bug. what if Ford came with seatbelts on the backseats that needed to be re-fastened by the soccer-mom at random intervals to avoid them not working in case of emergency? Cars are recalled for mistakes like that.
Re: (Score:1)
Frankly, you lowbrow types are really annoying with your constant screeches of "take responsibility." How about have an original thought, goober?
Sounds like your parents failed too. And, as far as me calling someone i dont know a 'bad parent', i dont need to know him ( or her ). He clearly gave an example of bad his parenting skills.
Want to try again, child?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes. And they know better. They were raised to know the difference between right and wrong and can think on their own.
Re: (Score:2)
What if they think that something you told them was "wrong" is in fact "right"?
I have three kids, and for reference i am strongly against these "in app" purchases which target kids because of this exact problem. My kids have androids and use their own account which doesnt have a CC card so they cant buy anything. Flip side, it is somewhat annoying when they get a game advertised as "free" only to be
Re: (Score:2)
And how long did it take to get your children to know the difference between right and wrong* and think on their own. For quite a few years, a child's brain isn't wired to understand certain things. I'm pretty bright, and I didn't understand money that wasn't coins and bills until after I wouldn't have been tempted by Smurfberries anyway.
*You do realize that highly intelligent people have debated the difference for centuries. I doubt your children are that much smarter than all the philosophers.
Re: (Score:2)
Well put.
the part where they write "I'm right. Period...." seemed pretty arrogant.
Re: (Score:1)
Arrogance does not mean you are not better than others. It just means you show it in an abrasive way.
Re: (Score:1)
Your (supposed) children never make mistakes? If you believe this then you are even more deluded than you sound.
Not irresponsible acts like this, i can assure you.
Re: (Score:1)
Not only do you grossly overestimate your intelligence, you don't even pass the self-awareness test. Clearly you do care if people agree with you, otherwise, you wouldn't be here spouting off. That is a basic concept of communication.
You mistake my dictation of reality and now they should think to the peasants, as 'caring'. Its not. Really.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
How is making an honest observation 'name calling'? You sound like a child, so i used the term. Even if you are not in age, you do have the mind of a child.
"dumbass child" would have been name calling. Besides, who was arguing? I was simply stating reality.
And for the record, this 'required time between' posts is ludicrous. Some of us can think faster than that..
Re: (Score:2)
Look up the meaning of the word "argument"...
"a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong."
So you were not trying to persuade others?
Re: (Score:1)
If there was any arguing, it was on your part only. I honestly dont care if anyone agrees or not. I'm right. Period. If someone is too stupid to realize that, its their problem not mine.
So 2 posts is "too much"? If i try to post a 3rd time i get the delay. I wouldn't call 3 posts in a row too much, and the operators here can take their limit and shove it..
um... how bout... (Score:1)
um... how bout... we don't give our children expensive toys... especially ones that have the ability to rack up bills.
Now I get it... you don't want your kids to feel left out... but seriously when did it become a good idea to give your child the smartphone/device? I mean geeze, a replacement costs anywhere from $100-$600 or more. My parents would never have let me have one as a child. Heck... they were reluctant to let me watch TV all day.
I remember being told no more than a 1/2 hour... And I thought t
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
No, it's not their policy to make. You may wish it was, but (1) that's your individual opinion, (2) that's not the law, and (3) there are quite a number of people who disagree with you which, even in a representative democracy, goes
Re: (Score:2)
My 36 month year old nephew has a 100GBP early learning centre train table
http://www.elc.co.uk/Big-City-... [elc.co.uk]
You can buy a Kindle Fire HD from Amazon delivered to your door for 89GBP if you have Amazon Prime, and there have been plenty of times where you have been able to buy a new Kindle Fire for under 100GBP.
Where he given a Kindle Fire he would be perfectly able to work his way around it. He loves the CBeebies app, particularly Andys Dinosaurs, and will spend ages browsing through all the photos on his par
all the while I thought the maxim of our times was (Score:2)
Think of the children and profit.
Ok (Score:2)
So my kid purchased some international roaming calls in the 'phone' app, it didn't even have to enter a password.
Can I please have my 3000$ back?
Yes, purchase was refunded, but ... (Score:1)
True, at least in our case.
Still, I could have done without the shock of seeing the huge charge (over $200 ... more than the cost of the Kindle Fire HD!) ... our 8-year old could have done without the stress of having his parents mad at him when he didn't realize he wasn't doing anything wrong ... I could have done without having to spend time getting a refund.
And what about those who didn't jump through t
Above the fray; I think not (Score:1)
Take Responsibility (Score:1)
This is stupid (Score:2)
What is the difference between an App and a website?
At this point the apps in question are basically clients for a web or internet program.
So really the difference between an app and a website is pretty limited.
Obviously we have no problem with in website purchases. We do those all the time.
And websites through cookies often keep us logged in allowing people to buy things without going through additional steps. Amazon One Click for example lets you go through the whole checkout process very quickly.
But no o
Re: (Score:2)
I don't want a nanny state. Stop forcing it on me
We need to have the "nanny state" for those adult programmers who can't tell right from wrong and engineer there games in a deceptive and unfair way.
Sorry that it might interrupt your revenue stream, but the the games really should have a twenty for hour "refund" window, where there is an unconditional refund given to in-app purchases.
Re: (Score:1)
We need to have the "nanny state" for those adult programmers who can't tell right from wrong and engineer there games in a deceptive and unfair way.
"wah wah! its unfair that I can't just give my kid a credit card and know that they wont spend any money!"
Seriously? Be a better parent because right now you are a very very bad one.
Re: (Score:2)
We didn't give our son a credit card. We didn't give him a cell phone. We gave him a Kindle Fire HD, and had no idea that by default he would be able to buy things with real money without our needing to put our password in.
After getting a huge charge from in app purchases I complained to Amazon and was immediately and cheerfully given a refund, with instructions for how to turn on the setting to require password for in app purchases.
Amazon knew what it was doing when they made the default setting "no passwo
Re: (Score:2)
Then you did not read the instructions, and there was no need to link his Kindle Fire HD to a credit card. You just link it to a new Amazon identity and any purchases have to be made with credit from Amazon gift vouchers you purchased for their account. It's dead simple and how both my nieces have had their Kindle Fires setup from day one. They can make in app purchases but only from a limited pool of credit.
Re: (Score:2)
Posts don't get deleted.
Re: (Score:2)
From what I've read (and I only skimmed this thread so maybe I missed something) they are "going after Amazon" because the "parental controls" that they provide on their product get reset every time there's an update to the device.
Imagine if the root password and all of the access controls on the servers in your machine room got reset each time you ran an update on the OS. You'd be pretty pissed I bet.