$500k "Energy-Harvesting" Kickstarter Scam Unfolding Right Now 448
New submitter FryingLizard (512858) writes For a while I've been following the saga of the Kickstarter "iFind" Bluetooth 4.0 tracking tag. Nothing new about such tags (there are many crowdfunded examples; some have delivered, some have disappointed), but this one claims it doesn't require any batteries — it harvests its energy from electromagnetic emissions (wifi, cell towers, TV signals, etc). The creators have posted no evidence other than some slick Photoshop work, an obviously faked video, some easily disproven data, and classic bad science. So far they've picked up half a million in pledges. With six days to go until they walk off with the money, skeptics abound (10min in) including some excellent dissections of their claims. The creators have yet to post even a single photo of the magical device, instead posting empty platitudes and claims that such secrecy is necessary to protect their IP.
Using just their published figures, their claims are readily refuted, yet still backers flock in. Kickstarter appear uninterested in what can only be described as a slow-motion bank robbery, despite their basic requirement to demonstrate a prototype. It seems self-evident that such scams should not be allowed to propagate on Kickstarter, for the good of other genuine projects and the community at large. Skeptics are maintaining a Google Doc with many of the highlights of the action. Bring your own popcorn and enjoy the show."
Using just their published figures, their claims are readily refuted, yet still backers flock in. Kickstarter appear uninterested in what can only be described as a slow-motion bank robbery, despite their basic requirement to demonstrate a prototype. It seems self-evident that such scams should not be allowed to propagate on Kickstarter, for the good of other genuine projects and the community at large. Skeptics are maintaining a Google Doc with many of the highlights of the action. Bring your own popcorn and enjoy the show."
Thanks for the tip! (Score:5, Funny)
I pledged $120.
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect that many scammer Kickstarters have a mass of pledges just as fake as yours--only not intended for humor, but rather "self-giving" to create buzz and give the impression of legitimacy. I doubt very seriously that most of that $500,000 they've raised on this particular campaign is real.
But this does raise a real point. Kickstarter needs some basic donor protections and means of reporting scams. Otherwise they'll just devolve in a feeding ground for con men and no one will take any project posted there seriously.
Re: (Score:2)
You could just decide to let people get scammed, some would learn and be more selected, some would never invest again, some would get fooled again. Or, you can regulate the crap out of it and make it hard for everyone. Not an easy answer.
Re: (Score:3)
A good way to help limit fraud would be jailtime if you're caught creating such a scam, but then, that would go against our cultural tradition of letting white-collar financial fraudsters get off scott-free on anything they do.
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:5, Funny)
I'm in complete agreement here. We desperately need some way to tell legitimate Kickstarter campaigns from frauds. For that matter, the entire internet is full of scams and con-men waiting to take your money. That's why my team has developed iScam, the revolutionary new fraud-protection device.
Inside every iScam is a tiny induction coil that is powered by negative energy. When negative energy released by a scam such as this one activates the device, it generates a current which in turn activates a blinking LED, with the frequency of the blinking being proportional to the negative energy field. Simply aim the device at your computer screen, or hold it up to the phone when you get that too-good-to-be-true offer, or even point it at your lover... if there's any deception in the area, iScam will be activated and you'll be alerted!
Pledge just $15 and we'll send you one device. For $25 we'll send you two. For $100, we'll send you an improved prototype with even more sensitive scam-detection algorithms. And for the especially gullible-those of you who have lost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars to scammers before- you need the top-level security provided by iScam Pro, which has a more powerful induction circuit, both increasing the range of the device and allowing it to detect even the tiniest fib! Pledge just $999 and we'll send you an iScam Pro. With our patented technology, you'll be safer than ever. And best of all, it's all environmentally friendly and fair-trade, with 10% of all proceeds going to benefit orphaned pandas.
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:5, Funny)
I'm confused. I have one of your early prototypes, and when I aim it at your post it blinks like crazy!
That means your post is a scam. But if your post is a scam, my device shouldn't be blinking. But my device is blinking...so your post must be a scam.....but...
Uh-oh! (Score:4, Funny)
I'm confused. I have one of your early prototypes, and when I aim it at your post it blinks like crazy!
That means your post is a scam. But if your post is a scam, my device shouldn't be blinking. But my device is blinking...so your post must be a scam.....but...
... backing slowly away from the imminent head explosion as the logic circuits overload ...
What Bankruptcy Means (Score:3)
Umm.. hate to break it to you, but the U.S. government *IS* bankrupt.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. [/InigoMontoya] Our debt to GDP ratio isn't even the highest it ever has been. Back in the 1945s we had a debt to GDP ratio of around 113%. Right now our debt to GDP ratio is about 101%. Not good but we've literally seen worse. That number could easily be drawn down if we had some leaders who were interested in actually leading.
Furthermore ALL of the debt the US has is denominated in US dollars. Though it would be a terrible i
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It is irresponsible. However "bankrupt" also applies because one of the definition of "bankrupt" is "overleveraged". The definition of GDP is "the market value of all officially recognized goods and services produced within a country." The problem here being that the amount of money the government spends and the GDP are not coupled. The GDP does not describe the amount of money or goods owned by the government. They have no claim on GDP, which is owned by the citizens of the United States. The only legitima
Re: (Score:3)
We never were in the black; not for a second. They had a single projected surplus, (but only if you ignored the SS trust fund scam) but that went away when .com popped.
Of course none of the increased spending (budgeted against the surplus the never happened) got rolled back. That would be fascist.
Re: (Score:3)
1. WTF part of international law? Be specific, they bought non-callable bonds. The only thing they can do with them is sell them on the secondary market. Which would hurt them more then us. They still end up with dollars in their hands. Where are they going to put the money, the euro? They will put the money into American land, same as they have been for 5 years now that they aren't buying American bonds anymore.
2. They can embargo their biggest market and the worlds biggest manufacturer, good luck to th
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:5, Funny)
I pledged $120.
Same here. I don't know what this tinfoil hat wearing idiot who came up with the conspiracy theory in the summary is thinking. After all, dowsing rods have been working since biblical times, and I can't recall swapping out the double A's in mine recently, can you? Similarly, the ADE 651 bomb detector, which contains no power source, and relies on a similar principle, has been protecting troops in Iraq and Pakistan for years. Do you really think already impoverished governments would spend tens of millions of dollars on something so vital to the lives of its armed forces if it didn't work? OP should remove this libelous screed before he finds he's on the wrong side of a lawsuit.
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm embarrassed to say that I pledged $70. I thought being on Kickstarter provided some level of protection against this, and that no one would be so brazen as to hijack people's names and credentials, and post them a popular website to promote their claims.
Thanks, Slashdot. I promise I'll be more careful next time.
If someone tells me the PowerUp 3.0 remote-controlled airplane is a hoax, I'll be devastated...
Re: (Score:3)
Email KIckstarter and ask them to take your pledge back. Email Amazon and ask them to cancel the payment. Contact your credit card company and ask them to do a chargeback. Don't just accept being ripped off, fight back!
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:4, Informative)
There's no need to Email anyone, Since the funding isn't over he can just cancel his pledge.
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Or maybe he thinks that when people post no proof of their claims, all data they have provided have been refuted by pretty much all sources, and the people post nothing to contradict those sources it probably is a scam.
Or not. I'm sorry, I don't trust kick starter campaigns. I don't donate to them, nor would I ever. But, to say what they're claiming to be able to do is impossible? That's clearly wrong. I could build an EM harvester in my livingroom in an afternoon. This isn't even that complicated technology. Can they fit in something the size of a dog tag? I dunno, I'm not a miniaturization expert. Attach that to a small battery, the bluetooth locater thing are in IC's everywhere. The only question in my mind is the size
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
They claim in their technical brief [kickstarter.com] that the energy harvestable from a typical home wi-fi is 10dBm.
This is off by at least 3 orders of magnitude (i.e. they claim at least 1000 times more than is actually available).
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:5, Insightful)
A classic element of pseudoscience and scams like this is to take something that has some small connection with physics but the numbers are so far off the engineering actually is impossible. This particular one is actually a pretty old 'free energy' thing, with people claiming you can collect usable amounts of energy from ambient signals. But the numbers, even though yes they are non-zero, are so tiny as to be useless.
There's also the price... (Score:3)
At $14-16 it's not too expensive.
Which is where argument to moderation fallacy kicks in. Followed by a dose of loss aversion.
"Sure, it may not work as advertised, but it may still work. And at this price, it's a bargain."
Seriously, I'm reading the description and I find myself thinking "Maybe they'll just slap a battery in it and it will work for a couple of months... I could live with that..."
And I KNOW that it's a scam.
And I am clearly not alone in this way of thinking. From the google doc list of reasons
Re: (Score:3)
Ok,
So I actually looked up the components you'd need to do this.
Here's the first low power Bluetooth chip I came across... the FIRST:
https://www.csrsupport.com/dow... [csrsupport.com]
It needs 16mA while transmitting.
1mA while idle
900nA while in sleep mode
The size is well with their specs.
The we have the harvester:
Again, the first IC I could find:
http://www.powercastco.com/PDF... [powercastco.com]
It's about 1/2" square, so it's a little big.
But it's already designed to power sensors.
The first chip already has a capacitor in it.
This even has u
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:4, Informative)
It appears, based on my back of an envelope math, it would have enough RF energy to operate continuously at at least 5meters from your typical Wifi AP or router.
5 meters from a maximum 1 W transmitter gives you 3 mW / m^2. The chip you selected runs at least 1.8 V, so it needs ~30 mW when active.... hence you would need an antenna with an area of 10 m^2 to get that type of power to run continuously off a Wifi AP. When idle, you would still need an antenna with ~0.5 m^2, so like 70 cm on a side square. Heck, if your device was an inch square, it would barely be able to power the bluetooth in sleep mode, with no power left over to charge up to allow it to briefly transmit.
And this is ignoring things like the antenna not being able to capture 100% of the power going through it, and that your harvesting chip isn't 100% efficient. The harvester chip gives a minimum RF input of -10 dBm, which means you would still need an antenna 20 cm square to work at that level 5 m from a wifi AP. And this is assuming your AP is working at full 1 W power continuously (In EU they would be limited to 100 mW, for example). If you are trying to power it off the bluetooth of a cell phone, most are class 2 with a maximum power of 2.5 mW, which wouldn't be enough. You have the main cell transmitter which can be up to a watt, but it isn't typically running at full power and has a small duty cycle when not making calls. This also assumes your tag is out in the open, with nothing on top or even behind it that would attenuate the signal, in which case making it brightly colored might be all that is needed...
you know who protected his purity of essence? (Score:5, Funny)
deathray...
Re:Keep an open mind (Score:4, Insightful)
- Carl Sagan
Re:Keep an open mind (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:5, Informative)
As somebody familiar with RF engineering, I'd say this is obviously a scam. And it's not a miniaturization issue. It's a power density issue. Yes, I could build something that would gather energy like they're saying. And with the power draw of a BT device, I bet every 10 days or so, I'd have harvested enough energy to run it for an hour.
Fact is, the RF energy needed to be harvested to do even small amounts of work would cook you if you got in the way. The amounts that are just free floating around you from cell phones for example is around -60dBm. Or -90dB. 1dB is 1 watt, -10dB is .1 watt, -20dB is .001 watt, so the typical cell phone signal is .000000001 watt by the time you receive it. And if anybody is going to try to tell me that you're going to power anything off of that sort of energy....yeah, but no. Just no.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It isn't a question of whether you can fit an EM harvester in something the size of a dogtag, you absolutely can.
But an EM harvester in something the size of a dog tag is limited by its size to harvesting energy that is impinges on that dog tag sized harvester. It is therefore simple to determine the maximum EM energy that can be harvested by a dog tag sized harvester. When you compare that maximum amount of energy with the energy requirements of those commercially available bluetooth chips and assume eve
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:5, Funny)
Or not. I'm sorry, I don't trust kick starter campaigns.
Right? I gave Toad the Wet Sprocket $50 for their new record. Then it arrived as double LP with four bonus tracks! If I wanted bonus tracks I would asked for freakin' bonus tracks! And don't get me started about that photo essay book I bought into. It was so good I almost cried. If I want to feel stuff I'll give to an Indiegogo campaign!
Re: (Score:2)
...and I'll bet the filthy infidel doesn't believe we're gonna get flying cars, either.
Re: (Score:2)
i know you were joking.
but we never will get flying cars, and it has nothing to do with the technology, but entirely to do with the FAA/Govt.
just look at the issues they are having with civilian operated drones right now as an example.
Re:Thanks for the tip! (Score:5, Insightful)
Forget civilian operated drones. Look at civilian operated cars. Take a glance at the kinds of drivers you see on the road every day and then ask yourself: "Do I really trust these people with a flying vehicle moving in three dimensions?"
Once we get self-driving cars, we might stand a chance of self-flying cars. Until then, though, flying cars would be a safety nightmare!
Re: (Score:2)
From your link: "RFID works by rectifying a strong local signal (not ambient RF) " [emphasis mine.] The scam in TFA is that they're ignoring the same laws of physics you apparently didn't bother to read.
Pro tip: If you're going to cite a source for your argument, you probably want to make sure it's not refuting the argument you're trying to make.
Re: (Score:3)
Don't waste your money. Once the solar roadways hit mass production we won't need diesel any more.
But it's green! It works through magic! (Score:2)
Everybody knows that green tech works without regard to laws of physics. Give them your money, they are green! They know how to make magic work!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This fake too? (Score:2, Interesting)
http://abc.cs.washington.edu/ [washington.edu]
Re:This fake too? (Score:5, Insightful)
http://abc.cs.washington.edu/ [washington.edu]
Just because harvesting of RF energy is a legitimate field does not mean that this product is genuine.
Or to give you a car analogy, just because internal combustion engines are used to drive cars does not mean that you can run a 4 litre V8 engine at full power and get 100 miles to the gallon.
Re:This fake too? (Score:4, Interesting)
Sure you can, if you run it in pulse-and-glide mode or use it as an intermittent generator, in a very light / streamlined vehicle. Even if you want to add on a requirement that it has to be run continuously, you could probably pull it off by going to extremes with your streamlining (going for a Cd of 0,1 or less and a cross section of under 0,5m... basically a little teardrop 1-man reclined capsule going at incredible speeds, thus quickly racking up those "miles" to compensate for the fast fuel consumption) and/or using an electrolysis cell to regenerate hydrogen fuel using whatever power your engine has in surplus (wasteful, but better than throwing away the surplus power from your full-throttle requirement for no purpose). Hmm, that's another thing one could do to game your challenge, one could mess with the fuel mix and the fuel-air ratio; some fuels or fuel progenitors are a lot denser than gasoline (more energy per gallon) - for example, using aluminum powder to generate hydrogen for the V8, a gallon of aluminum powder contains 2 1/2 times more energy than a gallon of gasoline, even with the losses in hydrogen generation it'll still leave you way ahead of the game. And there's all sorts of other possible ways one could tweak the engine, too, to reduce both its consumption (and correspondingly, power output) at full power. Including the easiest one, just tweak the throttle control so that full throttle is actually a very low power output. You could also get some small efficiency gains by sabotaging the pollution controls.
Re:This fake too? (Score:5, Insightful)
ok, WHY is it disingenuous? What about their claims don't make sense then? They plan to make a product that is clearly possible, so why is it a scam?
Take a look at the google doc. It has a lot of technical information as to why the claims of *this* kickstarter project are suspect.
Re: (Score:3)
He doesn't need your 'physics'. He's a capitalist, you see, and understands that the market makes things work!
Why is that not good enough? (Score:3)
Why is "Well, it wouldn't get enough power from the air" not good enough? This is basic physics here... broadcast RF has a certain total power level over any given antenna area based on the power of the transmitter(s) and the distance from the broadcast RF source(s); this device, in order to meet Bluetooth tx power requirements for their required transmit interval, along with the power for the chips, etc., requires more than that. Done.
The math and physics required here are not complicated nor do they tak
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
They plan to power a dogtag sized Bluetooth device by harvesting typical WiFi signal power.
The antenna will be at most about half an inch on each side (0.0125 meters, for a total area of 0.00015625 square meters.
Near a wireless network station used in homes and offices, the field intensity is typically below 0.5 mW per square meter.
Further upthread, someone posted the power required by a modern, low power Bluetooth chip, in its lowest powered sleep mode it requires a current of 900nA and 1mA when idle. Let'
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
3' x 3' is 3 feet squared right? That is nearly a square meter. Under optimal conditions that is roughly 1kW electric power: so yes it basically can power my whole house, as long as not accidentally to many consumers are switched on at the same time. ...
E.g. the fridge just started up and I activate my hair dryer.
So with some 'juggling' I certainly could power my house over daytime, and no, it is not a low energy house, but I use shades instead of an AC
So perhaps you should start to put in real numbers into
Re: (Score:3)
Look at the size of the antennas they are using, and compare them to the size of the iFind tags. Note how the legit project is going for much lower frequencies where there is much more energy available (hence the larger antenna), while iFind are trying to harvest intentionally low power wifi on a band with poor propagation. Look at the size of the PCBs and the size of the energy storage available in each design.
Wireless energy harvesting is an exciting field, but it can't do what these guys are claiming I'm
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Weren't these guys advertising on slashdot? (Score:5, Interesting)
https://www.kickstarter.com/pr... [kickstarter.com]
Re:Weren't these guys advertising on slashdot? (Score:4, Interesting)
The best part is
Some people have wondered why I do not have a robust presence online. Well, unfortunately, my identity was once stolen. And when that happens, you think twice about posting anything online. I have not even created a LinkedIn profile.
I think I had a Nigerian prince write me last week with the same story.
Re:Weren't these guys advertising on slashdot? (Score:4, Informative)
I had my identity stolen once. (Name, address, SSN and DOB were used to open a credit card in my name. Thanks a lot, Capital One, for not validating Mother's Maiden Name!) I still post online, though. Why? Because the things I post online won't result in my identity being stolen again. I'm more at risk of my doctor's office's computers being hacked into causing my personal information to leak out than I am at risk of all of my online posts combined causing my identity to be stolen.
Re: (Score:2)
There are ads on Slashdot???
If they walk away with this money... (Score:2)
Game over for Kickstarter. This will bite them hard...
Re: (Score:3)
Hey, at least they're technologically feasible. Anti-slip glass exists, LEDs exists, resistive heaters exist, solar cells exist, etc. The complaints with that one were always over the economics, in particular, their ridiculous snow-melting idea, which would take about a dollar at average US prices per square foot if you assume 100% efficiency to melt just a couple inches of snow (the crazy thing is, there are better snow-prevention/removal solutions that don't waste that much energy... but the people runnin
Re: (Score:3)
Oh, god, Thunderf00t, thats who your videos are from? Yeah, I've ran into that guy before, he's a moron.
Which can be said about any road surface. What point are you trying to make? Are you trying to claim that glass will break easy under pressure? News flash, the glass glazing on some skyscrapers actually holds up their own collective weight. Glass has superb compressive strength [detail-online.com]. It's very poor in dealing with flexural loads, which is why you have to have panels tha
Kickstarter/Amazon still get their cut (Score:5, Interesting)
This is why there is zero oversight from Kickstarter/Amazon - they get their 20% cut if the projects gets funded. There's no way Amazon.com is going to walk away from $125,000 in free money when they have absolutely no risk.
(We've heard this song before - from ISPs back in the day who claimed they were "common carriers" and "only providing a network" to avoid being charged as accessories to piracy).
They'll take their 125k, and if questioned, simply state they were providing a platform, and that they are not responsible for what users do with it.
Re: (Score:2)
If they are wise than that is NOT what they'll do.
If it is a scam and word gets around that they didn't care then the income from Kickstarter would stop quite fast.
Even if they don't care for the platform itself but only the revenue stream from it they should actively block scams.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
There's no way Amazon.com is going to walk away from $125,000 in free money when they have absolutely no risk.
No Risks except from legal action, possibly a class action suite. Distrust in the service and decline of its brand name. Lack of repeat customers and new projects being posted as they are afraid they will be considered a scam project as well.
Some Public Records ... You Know ... Just in Case (Score:5, Informative)
Surely, though, they must have registered the "iFind" trademark? And if you search on TESS we find:
Owner (APPLICANT) WeTag, Inc. CORPORATION TEXAS 3309 San Mateo Drive Plano TEXAS 75023
With an attorney listed as "Richard G. Eldredge" which corresponds to a local attorney [dfwpatentlaw.com]. Before you deploy the door kickers to lynch somebody, that address is just somebody's $200,000 house and could possibly be a random address used by a jerk. Remember that it's entirely possible that this is all a front by some other actor and someone was paid western union/bitcoin to register this trademark through this attorney without realizing they were just being used by literally anyone in the world ... of course, kickstarter should have even better transaction details (hopefully).
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Actually, according to Zillow, the house was rented for $1,250 in May 2013. It isn't even an owner-occupied house.
so how is Kickstarter not liable? (Score:5, Interesting)
If they allow projects to float their rules,and yet still take pledges?
There's a lawsuit waiting to happen here, it could be as lucrative as posting a dodgy kickstarter campaign!
hmm..
1. post obviously crap kickstarter
2. pledge yourself
3. complain vigorously when you "lose" your money
4. start a class-action suit against kickstarter for not checking things out
5. profit!!!
no need for ??? on this one!
Re:so how is Kickstarter not liable? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Do people who are defrauded out of money often make a profit in court? I would think that at absolute best you would make your money back + lawyer's fees.
Why would you even be awarded more than you lost?
Re: (Score:2)
4 needs to be "start a class-action suit against the ACTUAL fraudsters". IIRC there was a story floating around the internet about such a lawsuit recently and the backers won.
Of course, this is because the kickstarter was a scam. If the actual product isn't delivered but the company was acting in good faith, you have no case. You're not guaranteed to get anything out of a kickstarter; it's an investment, and some investments fail.
Re:so how is Kickstarter not liable? (Score:5, Interesting)
The basic defense from them is.. how ARE they liable?
Kickstarter's claim is that they're merely providing a platform, that they conditionally charge for the use of that platform, but that what it's actually used for is not really any of their concern. They also carefully word that backers aren't really investing, that they're basically just throwing money at a person at the hopes of getting something - while at the same time saying that getting that something is required, but that they're no party in it and that backers will just have to fall back to plain ol' contract law with the contract being between the backers and the project creators.
( Also keep in mind that recently they actually dropped a bunch of their rules - though that's more from pressure of other crowdfunding sites and all the bad press Kickstarter has gotten lately for actually policing their rules, than that they wanted to. )
I can think of 3 lawsuits that have happened that involved KickStarter in one way or another:
1. Hanfree - a sort of iPad stand, in which a backer who also happened to be an attorney sued on principle because the project creator burnt through the money (on what? no idea), stopped communicating, and then buggered off. I don't think Kickstarter was named as a defendant. If I recall correctly, that lawsuit also went nowhere fast because the project creator defaulted into bankruptcy.
http://venturebeat.com/2013/01... [venturebeat.com]
2. The WA AG's case (complaint handling) against a project creator. That's ongoing, but as far as I know Kickstarter hasn't been named a defendant there either.
http://www.pcworld.com/article... [pcworld.com]
3. The 3D Systems case. This was a patent case brought against Formlabs, but initially also named Kickstarter as a defendant because Kickstarter took a 5% cut and promoted the project through their site. Kickstarter was later dropped as a defendant, however.
http://www.insidecounsel.com/2... [insidecounsel.com]
So I'm afraid your 5-step program probably isn't going to work on account of Kickstarter absolving themselves from any responsibility, and apparently having the law on their side (until proven otherwise).
On the up side, your 5-step program really only needs to be 3 steps.
1. post not entirely obviously crap Kickstarter but just something that's popular.. like wallets, multitools, iThing covers, 3D printers, custom pens, etc. for which you already know there exists an eager audience.
2. make goal (helps setting it to a realistic level)
3. run off with the money aka profit!!!
Or even two steps, if you don't mind setting up a crowdfunding website and going head-to-head with Kickstarter/indiegogo/rockethub/etc.
Raw lemon (Score:2)
https://www.indiegogo.com/proj... [indiegogo.com] also was a scam, purportedly concentrating diffuse radiation.
Re: (Score:2)
I'd rather crowdfund a Star Trek movie. (Score:3)
I'd rather crowdfund a Star Trek movie - at least there are some nice ones already made that way.
Re: (Score:3)
Just don't clean your glasses for a few days and look at the sun and you'll get the same amount of lensflares, why do you need crowdfunding for that?
Give Kickstarter a break, they're busy (Score:3)
Give Kickstarter a break, they're very busy protecting us from conservatives.
False Hope is the Easiest Sell (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait for the kneejerk of the kickstarter (Score:2)
And so ends what was once a good way for ideas to find funding. Trust some asshole to come in and fuck it up for everyone.
Why not this one? (Score:2)
Will they get away with this? (Score:3)
If (when) they just take the money and run, are they legally in the clear? If so, I think I'm about to switch careers...
Re: (Score:2)
considering that their is only 6 days to go, yes they will probably get the money.
Considering that if they have any sense they are now citizens of Nigeria, and additionally have maintained and will continue to maintain a layer of anonymity, they will walk away in the clear.
Nice, 1/2 mill for a few pieces of plastic (Score:3)
And no, they cannot do what they claim. It is possible to build locators like they describe, but they would need to be passive. There is just no way to harvest and store enough in something this small. RFID tags derive all their energy from the sender that queries them, and with good antennas you can go up to, say 30m with them. But that is the limit these days and it is for a passive device that has its energy specifically and targeted beamed to it by the sender. For a harvesting device, you get very low power radio, almost no computing power and a few meters in reach and that is with a specialized receiver, not a general-purpose cell-phone.
If you're an adult and you haven't figured out how (Score:2)
to keep track of things like your wallet and keys by habitually keeping them in a single place, you probably shouldn't be walking around with either anyway. You should probably be holding a real adult's hand when you cross streets, too. Using technology to enable people to continue to be dopes is not a good idea.
I can see where this would have value for people with dementia. If would help caregivers locate personal items that may be needed.
When I think about how many airheads are walking around, I can't
Re: (Score:2)
A classic example- old people in assisted living facilities frequently misplace their dentures (i know, what the hell?). They often take them out to eat (if they don't fit properly), wrap them in a napkin and leave them sitting on a table. The napkin containing the denture gets scooped into the trash with food waste and the denture has mysteriously disappeared. If WeTag's stuff works and the tag circuits could be embedded in dentures it would be great!
Re: (Score:3)
When I am home my keys are in a box next to the door where I put them each time I come in the door. When I am away from home my keys are in my pocket or in my desk. It is NOT difficult to keep track of important things. It merely takes developing good habits. Good habits includes putting things away in places that make sense. I'm going to need my keys when I leave the house and get into my car, so the keys are kept at the garage door. It would be silly to keep my keys in a cabinet in the kitchen, for
Not half as bad as videogame kickstarters (Score:5, Interesting)
Videogame kickstarters have (from experience) more false claims than any other Kickstarter type I've ever seen. For instance, there was one that Retsupurae covered on Youtube yesterday, where a person claiming to be a "former Square-Enix employee" was trying to get people to crowdfund a remake of Chrono Trigger... made entirely in RPG Maker. Apart from the fact that said "former employee" didn't have the rights to Chrono Trigger, it was pretty clear that he had never actually coded anything before. In comparison, there have been several groups attempting to remake the game, all of whom were doing it for free. They were all sent C&D letters and stopped - but this guy didn't have to because his Kickstarter came nowhere close to getting funded.
There was also the guy who tried to make a 3D version of Monster Girl Quest. Compared to the Chrono Trigger guy he was a little better off rights-wise: he didn't own the rights to the real Monster Girl Quest, which hadn't even released its third and final installment when the Kickstarter went up, but MGQ wasn't registered in the United States yet and was only purchaseable through Japanese websites. The developer of MGQ is small enough that I don't think they would have the resources to sue, but they didn't have to - the guy didn't make funding, which was probably for the best, seeing as he featured his family (including his son, who was like five years old when he made the Kickstarter) in a pitch video for a "clean" version of an h-game.
If Kickstarter can't catch basic things like these, where they're clearly an infringement of copyright that could be discovered in a matter of seconds (both of the Kickstarters I mentioned had the names of the games they were stealing from clearly listed in their summaries) there's no way they're going to catch bad science.
Actual PhD students getting slandered? (Score:4, Interesting)
Before the witch hunt begins, someone should kindly ask this guy, one of the listed affiliates:
http://www.ifp.illinois.edu/~zwang119/
whether he knowingly has his name on this project. From the looks of his research, he does nothing with hardware. And so someone may have just listed him.
If it actually is him, this can be roped in really fast by either contacting his academic advisor and if necessary, the chair of the department or a Dean. This would create such horrible publicity for U. Illinois that action should be swift and decisive.
Look, if people really doubt the science (and I do: wireless electromagnetic power transission is really only a near field phenomena because those contributions to the E and B fields that can drive currents usefully drop much harder than 1/r).
Now go and be nice, he's probably a victim too.
Great Product! (Score:3, Funny)
Freedom! Speech wants to be free! (Score:5, Insightful)
P. T. Barnam is reported to have said: (Score:3)
"There is a sucker born every minute!"
Things like this prove him right. "A fool and his money are soon parted...."
Fuck that, check this out (Score:4, Interesting)
Quantum Energy Generator. [gofundme.com] Now that's the stuff.
I skipped around the video and the best part is at 9:20:
"When I stand in that lab, I can feel the magical presence of the QEG."
I hope that they are using the money to go beat everyone who donates to it with a stick.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They're going to rent the Apple suite? If it's at the Hilton, then it's obvious they'll need all the money they can get!
Re: (Score:3)
The technology for the solar roadways is completely legit, it's the business case for it that's total BS.
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed. The business case for these locator tokens is completely clear and seems to be working: Take the money and run.
Re:Big deal (Score:5, Insightful)
Cars exist, right? Foldable bikes exist, and there are quite a number of them out there.
Buy my foldable 400MPH 400 miles to the gallon car which folds up into a suitcase, only $1K.
$500K is not enough to develop custom silicon for the task. They're using someone elses chip.
The format can't capture enough power, due to unfortunate laws of physics to do bluetooth pairing.
Batteryless NFC RFID tags work with a comparatively huge field to power them. (millions of times as
strong as a nearby wifi router)
I'm sold! (Score:3)
Wow, only $1000? That's AWESOME! For a foldable car I'd be willing to pay, like $10,000, but if you're going to do a kickstarter and I can get in at the $1000 level, I'm TOTALLY in!!
And that's probably exactly how these charlatans have managed to get that many supporters.
Re: (Score:2)
Not NearFC and not RFID. These actually work but do not harvest energy. RFID also needs a specialized, pretty powerful sender and you do not have anything suitable in a smartphone.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Simple, (Score:4, Interesting)
RFID tags consists of an antenna, diode, charge pump and controller. A comparatively HUGE external source lights up the tag with radio waves. The tag's antenna collects power for the charge pump to boost it up to a useable voltage for the controller. This type of "power bank" was developed not long after capacitors, diodes, and switches were simultaneously available. Then of course the controller broadcasts its data right? Well sorta. Since there is not nearly enough power to transmit in the traditional sense, all it does is toggle a PIN diode, shorting the antenna to ground.
What the hell good does that do for the external transmitter? Well, when the antenna is active, a tiny bit of power is absorbed and when it's shorted out that tiny power is reflected back. The external transmitter is sensitive enough to tell the difference allowing a super low bandwidth ID code to get through. Kinda like you shining a flashlight on your computer screen and a single pixel blinking back a message. Wild eh?
This would never work for modern bluetooth. The baud rates and overhead involved currently require powered transceivers on both ends. This kickstart isn't RFID, its a fake.
Re:Simple, (Score:5, Funny)
Not to mention that if they store the energy in a bank, they're going to lose most of it to transaction fees.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is that their tech is in theory feasible (and used in some very low-energy swarm sensors), but that the numbers do not work out for their application at all. One problem is that bluetooth requires way too much power for this and a smartphone does not have a low-energy receiver. And doing anything audible with harvested energy? There are several orders of magnitude missing in what you can harvest and store.
Re:Lets list other free energy communication scams (Score:4, Insightful)
They do not have the antenna and storage for what they claim they can do. There are limits what you can capture in something this small and they are rather low. and way below what Bluetooth needs.