Unlocked Firefox OS ZTE Open Is Now Available On eBay For For $80 122
SmartAboutThings writes "We've been hearing quite a lot lately about the Firefox OS, but there are actually only a few Firefox OS phones launched on the market. ZTE Open is one of them and is actually the first Firefox OS phone for consumers. Even if Firefox OS has support from carriers all over the world, it's pretty hard to sell devices in more locations across the world. To remedy that, ZTE is going to sell the Firefox OS Open phone on eBay for eighty dollars, which is actually ten dollars less than the launch price. A real great thing is that the handset will be off-contract and unlocked which means you will be able to use it on all mobile networks. ZTE didn't mention when exactly the device will go on sale on eBay, the company just mentioning 'soon.'"
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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Is harder to hide a backdoor when the code of the OS is open source and the apps are in html5.
This helps a bit, but not as much as you would think. When they say "unlocked" what they mean is that this phone comes unlocked for use on multiple operators but probably (unless this changes close to market time) not not unlocked for using your own OS [eslack.org]. That makes the whole phone OS close to a binary blob that you can't replace and which they will be able to change without you having true control. If you use cyanogenmod [cyanogenmod.org] you might argue that the reduced number of binary blobs would allow some kind of audi
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Re:I'll hold out (Score:5, Informative)
Even if it's fully open, with 0 binary blobs. How many qualified specialists, with serious math background, do you think are out there looking through complex encryption functions checking through flaws in math? Ever heard of Obfuscated C Code Contests? Openness of the code does not guarantee absence of backdoors even if the code does get a lot of eyeballs looking at it.
Firstly; if the Obfuscated C Code scares you then I guess you should look up the underhanded C contest. Notice especially the bits where malware is disguised as small programming bugs. When you say "Openness of the code does not guarantee.." you are 100% right. However, don't forget, "the perfect is the enemy of the good". We don't always need a guarantee; sometimes improvement is enough:
1) Given that there have been plenty of discoveries of problems (e.g. just today a flaw in Android's RNG was reported) there must be quite a few people who are checking.
2) All it takes is one person. You don't need to do anything to benefit if I check it for you.
3) There is a vast increase in the risk for the attacker if it's open source;
4) Security problems tend to happen in generally insecure code. If code is open source you can avoid this:
Several of the things I mentioned are things that most people won't do most of the time. Having them as options means that they will be available when you actually really need them.
defenders can spot the hole and
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Idiots.
Its trivial to hide back doors in the hardware itself, which isn't 'open'.
You OSS fanboys really need to stop talking out your ass and realize its not the end all be all solution.
Unless I rebuild the binaries ... with a trusted GCC compiler (prepackaged doesn't imply trusted since I didnt build those binaries either), and bios, and every other component in the device, than I am no more sure than I was before I used an OSS OS.
If you manually confirm the source is safe yourself, you build all binaries
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Is harder to hide a backdoor when the code of the OS is open source and the apps are in html5
not really. there's no way a carrier just clones the OSS project and flashes it onto their phones. they always customize the software further. as long as the underlying OS allows for modular services, the fact that the OSS project does or does not have something has little to do with what will be running on the phone.
regardless, the carrier doesn't even need software on the device to watch you. they can monitor your network traffic and location simply by the fact that you are using their network.
and, if you
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Re:I'll hold out (Score:5, Insightful)
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Its from ZTE ... it will not be NSA ready, unless China also calls their spy organization the NSA as well.
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Of course, the two are not mutually incompatible.
Smart move (Score:2)
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I completely agree. There is today absolutely NO INCENTIVE to go through a provider to get a phone. It is perfectly fine to get there with your own phone and usually much less expensive over time. Unless you live in the US ans your carrier charges the same price whether you're reimbursing a subsidized phone or not of course which is simply called 'theft' in my book.
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Friends and family plans are generally substantially cheaper than buying your own phone and paying off-contract, you have to go through a provider to do that of course.
In the US, all the major carriers and a great number of smaller ones will let you use an unlocked phone off-contract, and no it's not the same price.
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Friends and family plans are generally substantially cheaper than buying your own phone and paying off-contract, you have to go through a provider to do that of course.
if you buy a $650 samsung galaxy 4, yes. if you buy a $350 nexus 4, no.
In the US, all the major carriers and a great number of smaller ones will let you use an unlocked phone off-contract, and no it's not the same price.
yes it is the same price. my spouse and i have separate plans. i came in with my own phone off contract. she has an on-contract iphone. same monthly cost.
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Why is it so smart? So a few geeks can buy it on EBay?
No one knows its there besides some slashdotters. That makes this a pretty stupid idea. They'll get 9 million times more exposure in a store.
Whats next? Craigslist advertising?
"All" Mobile Networks? (Score:2)
So... it does GSM and CDMA? Or did the submitter not do their homework?
Tl;dr - if it works on Verizon's network and is even 50% better than my current phone, I'm in.
Re:"All" Mobile Networks? (Score:5, Informative)
2 degrees of separation, here's the latest list of carriers, dated 7/29/13:
América Móvil - Jamaica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Peru, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Paraguay, Puerto Rico, Colombia, Ecuador, Brazil
China Unicom – China
Deutsche Telekom – Germany
Etisalat – Middle-East
Hutchison Three Group – United Kingdom
KDDI – Japan
KT – South Korea
MegaFon – Russia, Tajikistan
Qtel – Qatar
SingTel – Singapore
Smart - Philippines
Sprint – United States
Telecom Italia Group – Italy
Telefónica – Spain
Telenor – Norway
TMN – Portugal
VimpelCom – Russia, Ukraine, Canada, Algeria, Bangladesh
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What about Tmobile?
do you guys list car manufacturers by gasoline companies or by type of gasoline they can use? if you know what network your provider is running(you should), then just look it up.
2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
3G Network HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1900 / 2100
SIM Mini-SIM
GPRS Yes
EDGE Yes
Speed HSDPA, 7.2 Mbps; HSUPA, 5.76 Mbps
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Just pointing out that in America, the majority of our mobile information is purposefully obfuscated and outright hidden, so the carriers can keep the masses confused and signing 2-year high-monthly cost contracts instead of buying phones and going prepaid.
So, over here, it is in fact normal to ask "what about [x]" because too many people are locked into contracts, and looking to use their "upgrades" asap and sign another two year contract.
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Both Firefox OS phones are being sold in Venezuela by TelefÃnica as well
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I like how the only supported US carrier is the one carrier that virtually nobody has service with... almost like they want Firefox OS to fail miserably in the US.
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What are you talking about?
There's a link in TFA that lists all the carriers who have verified that they will allow the Firefox OS devices on their network. I listed them here because I know a lot of people can't be bothered to RTFA, let alone any subsequent links.
Given the bands supported, it will run on AT&T 2G and 3G, T-Mobile on 2G plus 3G in those areas where T-Mobile has re-farmed their 1900Mhz spectrum
Yea, but just because the math works out doesn't mean you're going to land on Mars. Or something like that, but clever.
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The US isn't even the target market for most of these phones.
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Where did this list come from? It seems highly unlikely that any phone would work on Sprint in the US but not on Verizon, and as far as I know the ZTE Open does not have a CDMA radio, which means it would work on AT&T and T-Mobile, but not Sprint.
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If it works on Three I dare say it's good on most other UK carriers as well. We don't exactly have a lot of incompatible frequency bands.
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I wonder if Sprint will even let this device on their network. GSM providers tend to not care -- if the SIM card works, the device comes online. However, as far as I know, CDMA providers in the US only allow devices they sell on their networks, so getting Sprint to allow this ZTE handset may be an exercise in futility.
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Sprint's policy is "Haha, No." Slightly surprising given that they are Verizon's whipping boy, and you'd think that they'd try to compete on service; but no.
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Carriers whose protocols give them total control over the phones on the network don't count. Particularly when virtually the entire rest of the world utilizes GSM-derived protocols that leverage SIM cards.
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Carriers whose protocols give them total control over the phones on the network don't count.
Use of the word "all" belies that thinking. "Most" is the word you would use in that circumstance.
FWIW, I looked (see self reply) and the list of supported carriers doesn't even come close to a representative sample, let alone universal inclusion.
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Radio switch? (Score:4, Insightful)
Is there a hardware radio switch for those of us who don't want to be tracked by the government all the time? Failing a hardware switch, a software one could be acceptable since I can compile the OS myself.
At that price, running an open source OS, this might be my first cell phone.
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It's based on a Qualcomm MSM7225A, so Not A Chance.
Qualcomm has a GPLed kernel shim; but it is wholly useless without the userspace binary blob that does mysterious things by twiddling the interfaces the shim provides.
Unless I'm much mistaken, the entire world of mobile GPUs is pretty much a clusterfuck from an openness perspective. Intel will probably die-shrink their way to cramming a GMA that isn't a licensed PowerVR part into a phone before any of the ARM SoC vendors open up.
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Intel will probably die-shrink their way to cramming a GMA that isn't a licensed PowerVR part into a phone before any of the ARM SoC vendors open up.
Gesundheit.
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Unless I'm much mistaken, the entire world of mobile GPUs is pretty much a clusterfuck from an openness perspective.
nVidia is opening Tegra. Other than that, besides the freedreno project, there is also an OSS Mali400 driver which is good enough to run Quake3 now. Mali400 is a little slower than the other mobile GPUs, but not horribly so.
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I am pretty sure they don't have everything open, Firefox OS is based on Android and their way of doing GPU drivers. I am most interested to know if Mozilla, the "mighty fighter for our freedoms" added a restriction to the usage of the Firefox brand that devices must be bootloader unlockable, so I can be the owner of the phone and not the OEM. I hope they are, I know Mozilla folks like to trash talk the Android ecosystem/openness, actions are better than words
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Firefox OS is based on Android and their way of doing GPU drivers.
It "share some other parts of the HAL [...] with the Android project" but is it really based on Android, or just derived as Android is from Linux?
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They forked Android initially, don't know if they replaced bionic for glibc and more "GNUish" libraries, they aren't using Android SurfaceFlinger but they are using the GL drivers used for Android devices. Or they are using libhybris to make those GL drivers/libraries (that are linked against bionic) to run with Glibc or Firefox OS is still running bionic.
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How will you overcome the built-into-the-chip hardware backdoor in your hardware switch?
And how is the chip based malware going to provide power to the radio when a hardware switch has broken the circuit? That's why a hardware switch is important.
I said I might accept a software switch, since the OS is open source, but other posters have pointed out that binary blobs are everywhere on mobile devices, so I can't trust the OS even if I compile it myself.
There's a much simpler and cheaper solution to your pro
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Binary blobs are all over every computing device on the planet, except for a few non-functional (from a practical perspective) FPGA based OSH CPUs.
You live in some silly fantasy of ignorance where your Linux PC is 'free' (Which, btw, Free isn't the fucking word you mean to use as GPL is pretty much the definition of not-free contrary to what you zealots spew, the other incorrect word you should be using is libre) has no binary blobs ... except the CPU microcode ... and GPU microcode ... and BIOS/EFI ... and
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In theory, Airplane mode setting would turn off radios. That is if you trust them.
Not sure if this would stop NFC style of tracking.
well it better turn the radios off in airplane mode.. or else it's suing time.
Horrible specs (Score:2)
2009 called and wants their first gen android phone back.
3G connectivity
480 by 320 3.5-inch display
expandable memory via a microSD up to 32 GB, 2 GB included
256 MB RAM
3.15-megapixel rear camera
1.0 GHz Cortex-A5 processor
Re:Horrible specs (Score:5, Informative)
Then they can go buy it on Ebay for $80 just like everyone else.
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well, it's 80 bucks.
for 80 bucks it isn't bad, you would need to compare it to the aishas.
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And yet it supports 32GB storage vs 8 or 16GB on your typical iphone.
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Yes, but 30GB of it will be taken up by Firefox browser swap file, and another 1.9 by the OS.
More != Better in every case ;)
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While you're poking fun the actual phone only includes 512MB flash :). Things are pretty lightweight when you don't provide real APIs, libraries and stuff.
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Better than an iPhone 3GS... woo hoo!
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No it isn't, its running some half assed Android-Firefox concoction. Mozilla has to be a shining example of how to take the worst from a company (netscape) and roll it into a new company. They don't know how to develop a user experience for shit.
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I was referring to the hardware specs which are similar to iPhone 3GS (and better for the processor and also expandable storage).
I appreciate your comment on the user interface but we will just have to wait and see how that works out. Most of my use would be through the Mozilla browser and at this point in time, most browsers are about the same since the "user experience" is dictated by the HTML and the software just has to follow instructions.
I'll buy one just to try it out.
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The 20th century faxed me and wants its joke back.
Link to store, not in article (Score:3)
http://stores.ebay.com/ztemobileus [ebay.com]
Personally, I will wait. The phone is only capable of 3G, and my network supports LTE. However, the price is right if that wasn't an issue.
Performance? (Score:3)
I wonder how well this will run. Although Firefox has slimmed down somewhat after the 2.x era, it has never been particularly lightweight in my experience. About every other smartphone OS maker who has gone the "thou shalt build thy apps using HTML5, not native code" has been burned by bad performance, even when they launched with high-end phones.
According to this CNET review [cnet.com], the ZTE Open is at least faster than the Alcatel Fire, which they describe as slow and laggy.
I guess all this means that they are aiming Firefox OS at the low end of the market, where performance matters less than being able to afford a smartphone. However, I've always found it strange that companies do that - if you are going to make a low-end device, wouldn't you want to make the most efficient use of the hardware resources you have by running native code even more than if you had plenty of CPU cycles and RAM to burn?
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However, I've always found it strange that companies do that - if you are going to make a low-end device, wouldn't you want to make the most efficient use of the hardware resources you have by running native code even more than if you had plenty of CPU cycles and RAM to burn?
Usually yes but who wants another incompatible ecosystem? If you launched a new phone today with a lightweight system, let's say based on Amiga OS and ran cute fast native applications.. You would end up with a phone that has a web browser, media players and hardly anything else. Web browser and media players are already included in Firefox OS.
Other benefits are web stuff is adapted to resolution scaling (I hope), no more "this old style phone app supports 128x128 displays", and total vendor independance :
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FirefoxOS has no magic bullet. Their javascript performance will be just as poor. They seem to be developing this only because they have more money coming in than they know what to do with, and smartphones are a buzzword... /. had a good story on javascript performance, specifically on phones, a month ago:
http://mob [slashdot.org]
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No Mozilla is a non-profit with a mission.
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I guess all this means that they are aiming Firefox OS at the low end of the market, where performance matters less than being able to afford a smartphone. However, I've always found it strange that companies do that - if you are going to make a low-end device, wouldn't you want to make the most efficient use of the hardware resources you have by running native code even more than if you had plenty of CPU cycles and RAM to burn?
Well, the OS itself is obviously native code, at least partially. But as far as add-on software goes, distributing mobile apps as binary executables is a surefire path to early obsolescence for phone hardware. Once all the developers drop support for older models in favor of newer ones running different chips, it's game over.
Such a system also makes it harder to introduce significant hardware changes. Say someone put out a smartphone with a new chip that used a different instruction set, for example. It's t
I'll be watching this for sure. (Score:1)
I'm fascinated by the idea of an open-source phone, and hoping it might lead to a practical platform (rather than a half-functional hack) for actual Linux phones.
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http://stores.ebay.com/ztemobileus [ebay.com]
You can bid on it starting this Friday... no word on when it will actually ship but presumably "real soon now" since they are already selling it in a few countries.
I think I'll get one as a backup phone... for $80 I don't see a downside.
The specs are not state of the art but similar to iPhone 3GS (with a faster processor).
eBay? (Score:2)
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Distribution...
While you may rather avoid eBay and PayPal, there are millions of people who have no problem with them.
(I can find some reason to boycott just about every retailer/channel on earth... but I don't because I need to get on with my life... nose, face, spite)
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Putting the phones on Ebay shows a lack of professionalism and quality. It shows no pride in their work. Might as well post it on craigslist.
In my experience, when a company has no pride, professionalism or quality to their sales team, they certainly have no pride, professionalism or quality going into their products themselves.
It shows a pattern. They aren't willing to put for the effort to sell it properly themselves, what the fuck makes you think they put effort into making a phone that wasn't a piece
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No, it just shows that they don't have a marketing and distribution system as big as Samsung.
Telco Support (Score:2)
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That joke has made linux desktops more usable, thanks! Now we get to have an updated browser with apt-get upgrade or the graphical wizard. When I started using linux on a regular basis people were stuck with Firefox 2.0 or 3.0 for years, with all the slowness and bugs that come with it.
Mozilla announced already Firefox OS would get the upgrade treatment, security patch every six weeks and upgrade every three monthes. This means you get at least security updates, which aren't necessarily available on Android
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Heh, well we'll all be sure to take advice from the Linux newbie.
Yay!! (Score:2)
Yay for sane cellphone prices. Beween this and Nexus devices, we could see an end to Apple's and Samsung's butt-raping our bank accounts.
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Butt-raping? Are they forcing a phone on you then raping your account? As far as I know, sales of "over-priced" phones are completely consensual. Buyer's remorse perhaps, but butt-raping implies lack of consent.
I would insert an XKCD joke but can't think of one so here goes:
A woman goes to put her expensive pearl necklace into a safe-deposit box. The attendant admires them but then notices they are fake. When he informs the woman, she replies, "Oh my god, I've been raped!"
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Right, because all the people that paid top dollar for high quality Apple and Samsung devices are suddenly going to jump ship and want to buy bottom of the line crap phones that aren't even worth will enough for telephone carriers to give them away for contract sign ups.
Yes, thats what this tells you. The carriers don't even want to give this phone away. Thats how shitty it is.
That shitty phone ... is going to make people who pay $200-600 change their ways and go for the craptastic throwaway phone that i
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I don't think it's completely stupid.
Some people want a smartphone, but didn't want to spend as much money. So they haven't bought one yet.
If cheaper phones are some what popular, maybe they'll bring down the prices of the more expensive phones.
Ebay? (Score:1)
2. A phone is supposed to be easy because they do less than computers do. Calling up Verizon and running in circles with their phone jockeys to get some off-brand phone working with their network is not my idea of easy.
3. Firefox has been banned from our network for years because of their inability to fix major bugs with something as simple as a web browser. Why would I want
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1. Some people have had problems with some of the sellers on eBay but eBay itself does not conduct credit card fraud... "buyer beware" applies everywhere. Presumably the vendor of this phone, ZTE, will not defraud you (but you can never know with absolute certainty).
2. Verizon is a CDMA clusterfuck. This phone is GSM... it just works... everywhere and with everyone.
3. First I've heard of Firefox being banned for not fixing bugs... do you ban Windows also?
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Some people have had problems with some of the sellers on eBay but eBay itself does not conduct credit card fraud
Ebay owns paypal. Paypal is well known and documented for committing illegal acts with credit cards and funds. They've been to court multiple times for ripping people off in obvious ways.
2. Verizon is a CDMA clusterfuck. This phone is GSM... it just works... everywhere and with everyone.
Except on half the networks in the USA. So not everywhere and not everyone. Verizon is the biggest provider in the US, how does not working with the largest provider magically include EVERYONE? When did Sprint become GSM? They are apparently claiming Sprint support ...
http://www.ebay.com/gds/List-of-GSM-and-CDMA-Netwo [ebay.com]
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Reading skills... Sprint has pledged to release a device with the Mozilla OS... not this ZTE device, perhaps, but one that supports CDMA and which Sprint has gone through the headaches of configuring for their CDMA.
I am truly sorry to hear that you have to support Windows at work. I would think that you would have your hands full just dealing with Windows malware so I guess it would simplify to your life to reduce the number of browsers you support. One tip: Many businesses have standardized on IE v6... you
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So has HP, Cisco and a long list of others. I've got a "false and misleading conduct" announcement about HP right now.
It's the way some US businesses operate and not limited to ebay and paypal, who of course I don't trust anywhere near anything other than a low limit credit card.
Orange (Score:2)
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Wasn't the Neo 1973 orange too?
Surely both will share the same fate.
Once upon a time there were retailers (Score:2)
Once upon a time there were retailers, but the rents were high, the logistics were tricky and it all became a bit pointless.
TITLE FAIL (Score:1)
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Banner ads suggest eBay ordering date of ... (Score:2)
Stupid Question (Score:2)
Is there any way to program these things with a conventional programming language and conventional APIs? If so, I'll buy one.
By "conventional" I mean an API with functions like "open a new view/window, add an edit field and a pushbutton, if the pushbutton is pressed, do this and that with the edit field, store a file on the phone, etc." without ever having to touch HTML, XML or any other horrible web crap. I don't want to have to design simple phone applications as if they were client/server apps.
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Probably just run stock android on it, then there are any number of standard GUI toolkits you could use. Qt for example (though personally, I can't stand Qt/Trolltech/Nokia), as well as the standard UI toolkit built into android.
Remember, FirefoxOS is just a hacked android distro anyway. Think of it the same way you think of the Kindle Fire. They just through their own (shitty) special sauce on someone else's OS.
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You have to remember, Android needs more resources to at all on a phone than FirefoxOS. The minimum requirements of FirefoxOS are lower.
So if you buy the cheapest phone, it won't run Android.
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Well, that isn't really how webapps are usually build.
But there are existing UI-elements you can use so you don't have to deal with it directly:
http://buildingfirefoxos.com/ [buildingfirefoxos.com]