How BlackBerry Is Riding iOS and Android To Power Its Comeback 125
alancronin sends this excerpt from ZDNet:
"... the trend that brutally undercut BlackBerry phones during the past five years — the 'bring your own device' movement — is now driving significant sales of BlackBerry Enterprise Service (BES), the company's backend software. 'Our customers have been asking, "Can you just take what you've done on BlackBerry and put it on iOS and Android?"' said Pete Devenyi, BlackBerry's SVP of Enterprise Software. ... Secure Work Space will be an app in the Apple App Store and Google Play, pending approval from Apple and Google, respectively. It will include secure email, calendar, contacts, tasks, and document editing. It won't allow data leakage including copy and paste between Secure Work Space and the rest of the device. IT will be able to remotely wipe everything in the Secure Work Space without affecting any of the other apps or data on the person's device, in a BYOD scenario."
Copy and paste (Score:1, Insightful)
It won't allow data leakage including copy and paste between Secure Work Space and the rest of the device.
So, it's not a bug. It's a feature!
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not meant to be a feature to protect from users themselves leaking the data. I think it's designed against malware which could try to "emulate" user's behavior. Where does the user need to copy contacts from his corporate address book besides corporate e-mail which is provided by the same app anyway?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Click on the phone number in the email / text (not sure of bbm). Confirm that you want to call the number. Call.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sandbox is no reason to prevent a user click on a number in the sandboxed application from asking the user if he wants to call that number. At all.
Since the sandboxed application is capable of using a framework provided, or operating system provided tool to present information to the user, it is easy for the framework / operating system to figure that directly that the user clicked on the number. Rather than the application telling the framework that the user clicked on the number. The latter would have bee
Talking out both side of their mouth (Score:2)
Re:Talking out both side of their mouth (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:1)
Tablets will take over eventually. Probably not exactly in the form factor we see today but it will for sure take over. Input methods, lack of processing power and limited network connection speeds are holding back it's ability to completely replace the PC. The future of having 1 device handle all your computing needs is not that far away. You'll be able to project the device image on monitors and televisions with wireless access... Anybody doubting this probably also thinks earth is flat.
Re: (Score:1)
Will it also be powered by magic?
Re: (Score:1)
No, that's just silly. It will use dilithium crystals.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
It’s not “Tablets” taking over, it is the Thin Client model that is taking over. High internet speeds make this possible but tablets make it portable.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Low-end tablets sold as client devices, sure.
Productivity-oriented "Tablet PCs" on the other hand will likely continue carrying increasing processing power and other resources at least until they catch up with laptops. That's where things will start getting interesting.
Re: (Score:2)
People laughed at the Tablet PC concept ~10 years ago... I laughed at it too mainly due to the ~$3000 price tag back then.
Things sure have come a long way from then and I would not be surprised if the Tablet PC concept came back with a vengeance over the next 2-3 years. Intel's intention to make most of Broadwell's lineup BGA-only next year sounds like they are going to be making a big push for embedded/all-in-one/NUC form factors in 2014-2015.
Why tablets failed before. (Score:4, Insightful)
People laughed at the Tablet PC concept ~10 years ago... I laughed at it too mainly due to the ~$3000 price tag back then.
They didn't laugh at the concept, they laughed at the (pathetic) implementation. Microsoft tried to overlay using a stylus on windows as a sort of keyboard/mouse hybrid which is NOT what a stylus is good for. A stylus is good for *drawing* and nothing else. We take notes with a pen and what we are doing is drawing. The fact that we can draw characters is just a bonus side effect. Microsoft fundamentally misunderstood how a pen/stylus works and what it is good for.
I would actually love a tablet with a stylus option with the condition that the stylus be used for drawing ONLY. Not navigation (like a mouse) or as mass text input device (like a keyboard) but as a drawing tool in the same way we use it with a pen and notebook. That would be terrifically useful. But so far every developer gets all excited about character recognition or mistakes it for a mouse and screws up the interface in the process. The reason tablets are working well today is because they finally designed systems adjusted the operating system interface to be designed for finger input from the ground up.
Re: (Score:2)
I would actually love a tablet with a stylus option with the condition that the stylus be used for drawing ONLY. Not navigation
My exerience with a recent Nook made me wish I had a stylus for something as simple as closing tabs on a web browser. The amount of failure involved using my fingers on that device was just completely frustrating. I really don't understand why people hate the stylus so much. I really liked using the stylus on the Nintendo DS, for example.
Re: (Score:2)
My exerience with a recent Nook made me wish I had a stylus for something as simple as closing tabs on a web browser. The amount of failure involved using my fingers on that device was just completely frustrating.
That sounds like a design flaw with the interface rather than an indication of the need for a stylus to do basic navigation. Frankly if you need a stylus for navigation, something is broken in the design. I have an iPhone and I can reliably push very small buttons with my fingers with good accuracy. (Not recommending it just observing that it is possible to have precise finger input)
I think the reason finger interfaces have worked well so far is that Apple and Google have made it intentionally difficult
Re: (Score:2)
That sounds like a design flaw with the interface rather than an indication of the need for a stylus to do basic navigation.
Could be, or maybe my fingers don't work as well for precision pointing than others. Whatever it is, I really like the stylus for precision.
Re: (Score:1)
Personal computers were the only device to handle all our computing needs. Tablets in a different form factor are no longer tablets, right? Either that or tablets are personal computers in a different form factor.
Some people consider tablets the acme of personal computing because PCs are often associated with Windows, an overcomplicated OS which tries to be the jack of all trader, but in fact is master of none. Tablets on the contrary are associated with iOS or Android, and that is what needed to be done
Re: (Score:2)
Saying that tablets have found a niche is a bit like saying that hamburgers have found a niche. Tablets are cheap, or will be cheap once the surge in demand has been satisfied and the manufacturers have recouped their investments, and tablets can do 75% of what an average user does on a laptop, and more.
If you look at it from a hardcore user on a budget angle it makes sense to spend a little less on your laptop or desktop and monitor and direct some money towards a tablet or two. More machines and more scre
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
I got what you meant, but my point is that people in general will keep using tablets until someone comes up with an invention that defeats the benefit of owning multiple devices with multiple screens. If the tablet market dies it will be because we're all wearing contact lenses that paint images directly to our retinas.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Tablets are here to stay. I've been saying this ever since I bought a tablet PC to play around
Already a few services out there (Score:2, Insightful)
This is exactly the same as Good ( http://www1.good.com/applications/good-for-enterprise [good.com] ) and Samsung Knox is something similar.
I wonder if they'll manage to carve out a place for themselves based on BES inertia. However, having administered BES, I sincerely hope they do the dodo.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:1)
Yeah, I was always utterly confused as to why they stuck to Blackberry for this, rather than using Skype on iPhone/Android. I think that most people viewed Skype as "calling" application, even though the text chat was totally fine. It's already cross-platform and free. Must be the Microsoft curse at work.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Network effect. It your counter-parties use BBM and not Skype, you use BBM and not Skype. (Until there is a critical mass on Skype, and then the networking effect goes into reverse.)
Re: (Score:2)
This. BES is a total POS. I am not sure how something that simply connects email to phones can be so crappy, but it is.
Re: (Score:1)
I'm a current BES admin, and I have to say that they've improved the interface considerably. I'm also using Balance on my own Z10 and I have to admit, it's pretty slick. All we need now is an RSA client and we'll be set. Oh, wait a minute, I was able to sideload that.
Where BB has a real leg up is that as of this week, an enterprise customer can take their existing "old school" BES, upgrade to the new BES10.1, and run their entire BB fleet. This is considerably less disruptive than migrating to an entire
Blackberry Enterprise (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
Until such a day as RIM brings something that makes them more exciting than a trip to the dentist, they'll continue to lose anyone who doesn't absolutely have to have their specific features. That's no way to stay afloat in the mobile device market today, and their users will be essentially abandoned by the market.
Re: (Score:1)
but isn't the point this indicates is that RIM know they're not going to stay afloat in the mobile device market... hence moving to providing services for the OS's that will stay afloat in the mobile device market.
That's my take at least.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Yes, you're right. You are getting that confused.
You are assuming Service-X is proprietary and that nobody else can/does provide the services people want. What would get me to quit scratching my head is an open standard.
As we know, Blackberry's products are doing poorly in the marketplace as it stands right now, and rightly so given their failure to meet the demands of today's mobile device users. Create an open standard and you force everyone to step it up rather than giving the impression that they can
Re: (Score:2)
Blackberry Enterprise is one of those products that I really just have to scratch my head at. It has always seemed to me that encouraging users to treat as secure something which is easily lost, stolen, or damaged is a fundamentally flawed concept for a business model. Sure, there are users out there who have a genuine need for such a concept, but the problem that really needs to be addressed is user understanding of data security practices, not giving them technology that encourages continuing bad practices in ignorance.
Honestly, I've felt for a long time that Blackberry should have done a better job with their enterprise dominance - instead of doing this half assed job of trying to appeal to every market segment. A few years ago, almost all company issued phones were blackberries. Imagine if blackberry had focused on letting you do more with your blackberry - like teleconferencing, video conferencing, virtual workspaces, screensharing, collaboration etc. They had the software, the network, the hardware presence. Their com
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, since the iphone came out, the BYOD movement got interesting. In all these years, I suppose, RIM saw that people wanted to carry only 1 phone, and, as it was, it wasn't going to be a BB.
They failed at delivering a decent, modernized UI that didn't depend on the touchpad/joystick thing. People wanted BIG SCREENS and TOUCH. I haven't seen the Z10 but i suppose that was going to be THE ipod/android competitor. But it was too late to the game. About 3 years too late.
I guess BB is transitioning into a soft
Re: (Score:1)
What are you even saying? The business model isn't to give them some false sense of security with an easily lost phone. It's to allow them to securely access email/corp communications while mobile. Is your idea of an efficient workforce to only allow email access from a locked down desktop behind secured steel and concrete blast doors only opened by a DNA test? You must be one of those "security gurus" who thinks the only acceptable way to use a computer is to disconnect it from the network and make s
Re:Blackberry Enterprise (Score:5, Insightful)
Blackberry Enterprise is one of those products that I really just have to scratch my head at. It has always seemed to me that encouraging users to treat as secure something which is easily lost, stolen, or damaged is a fundamentally flawed concept for a business model.
Are you insane? Or you just have no idea what a blackberry enterprise server (BES) does?
The BES manages strong encryption (AES by default) on the devices. The encryption keys are found only in two places: one the BES, and on the blackberry itself.
The mobile carrier doesn't have the keys, and RIM doesn't have the keys. So if a government comes calling with a warrant, RIM doesn't have anything to give them. It's a very elegant design.
The BES can force mandatory policies onto the blackberries, such as strong full-disk encryption, strong passwords, remote tracking, remote wiping, remote locking, wiping if the phone doesn't check in regularly, restricting what apps can access, and many, many other things.
There are a number of very smart & paranoid people at RIM who have thought long and hard about different attack scenarios and how to prevent them. That's why blackberry has been certified by many governments, NATO, and others: http://us.blackberry.com/business/topics/security/certifications.html
Unfortunately, the market doesn't seem to be interested in strong security and is far more interested in giving up all their personal/company information in return for the latest shiny device. Sad.
Re: (Score:1)
Are you insane? Or you just have no idea what a blackberry enterprise server (BES) does?
Provides governments with backdoor access to your supposedly encrypted data? Check.
Re: (Score:2)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/02/rim_keys_india/ [theregister.co.uk]
What, again?
RIM certainly has SOME part of the code and as such they can give out the relevant stuff to the authorities, including the BASE KEYS.
That 'government certification' nonsense is just that.
Re: (Score:3)
Uh, no.
You're confusing the consumer "internet edition" with "Enterprise edition".
Internet edition blackberries are what you get when you go to your carrier and buy it on a blackberry plan and they give you email and all that. In which case, what happens is
Re: (Score:2)
I can guarantee you're wrong.
TSA certainly had access to EVERYTHING, and I'm using BES with a company in the UK on my BlackBerry.
Try again when you actually know what powers the government does have.
In fact, try that again when you're actually doing some contract work that involves the government and travel.
You are not secure by any means
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, but then the BES keys have been handed over to the government by the company running the BES server. The attack vector doesn't include Blackberry (erstwhile RIM) in this case. Run your own BES, don't hand over keys (if you can) to the government and there is no attack vector. That is what is being discussed.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Blackberry Enterprise is one of those products that I really just have to scratch my head at. It has always seemed to me that encouraging users to treat as secure something which is easily lost, stolen, or damaged is a fundamentally flawed concept for a business model.
Are you insane? Or you just have no idea what a blackberry enterprise server (BES) does?
The BES manages strong encryption (AES by default) on the devices. The encryption keys are found only in two places: one the BES, and on the blackberry itself.
The mobile carrier doesn't have the keys, and RIM doesn't have the keys. So if a government comes calling with a warrant, RIM doesn't have anything to give them. It's a very elegant design.
The BES can force mandatory policies onto the blackberries, such as strong full-disk encryption, strong passwords, remote tracking, remote wiping, remote locking, wiping if the phone doesn't check in regularly, restricting what apps can access, and many, many other things.
All of the encryption stuff is exactly like ActiveSync, which comes on every device worth it's salt, and every organization that has Exchange (is there an enterprise that doesn't?). All of the policies are included in ActiveSync, except for "remote tracking, remote locking, wiping if the phone doesn't check in regularly, restricting what apps can access", and most of those are easily implemented with a mobile management program. That said, most enterprises I've seen really only care about the features Act
I want one (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
http://support.apple.com/kb/PH2701?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
Not hard.
Quite easy, in fact.
From Apple.
Just sayin'.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I want one (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
Indeed, I've always thought that agreeing to allow the Activesync portion of the Android exchange client to remotely wipe all my data was a bit harsh. That said, I'm in charge of the Exchange server so there ain't gonna be any wiping of my phone. Obviously the boss has to stay nice though.
Re: (Score:2)
There are roms that will fix that problem. They will just say "yup I wiped!" while not doing a damn thing.
Re: (Score:1)
Remotely wipe a device of its data? Wow, Apple should have thought of that.
Posting under the assumption that the above comment was laced with sarcasm... Blackberry had remote wipe capabilities via BES long before the iPhone was even released.
Re:I want one (Score:5, Insightful)
can apple wipe just the 'work' portion and leave the personal (my email, etc) alone?
no?
then shut the hell up, then.
I was asked by the folks at my work to install exchange stuff so I can run outlook (sigh). I started the install when a dialog came up asking if I will grant 'whole device wipe' privs to the IT guys. fuck no! its MY device! whole system wipe? really? JUST because I want to install calendering from exchange on my phone?
I canceled and so far, my home phone has no work stuff on it.
it would be really nice to be able to keep them separate and risk-free.
apple has nothing like this, do they? normally, its an all or nothing wipe, just like outlook 'wants'.
Re: (Score:2)
Of course it's funny that the one device that DOES have this ability is the one device no one wants as their personal phone anymore.
Re: (Score:2)
Same in android. Permissions aren't granular enough. For example, when an app request "sd card access", android gives it FULL access. Not a sandbox to the app's directory or something. Very silly.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Thank you, come again.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
apple has nothing like this, do they? normally, its an all or nothing wipe, just like outlook 'wants'.
Not Apple per se, but check out air-watch [air-watch.com]. We use it at work to put a wall around corporate data on our user's personal iOS devices.
Re: (Score:2)
air-watch is just a system to create provisioning profiles with a nice UI rather than doing it by hand.
It depends entirely on features that are already in the phone and can be used by anyone capable of following documentation and creating an XML file.
air-watch just makes it easy to do it on a large scale, it doesn't actually add new security related features.
Re: (Score:2)
I've been using an app lately called DIVIDE which allows this. You don't lock your phone, & it only wipes the data within the App. Meeting notifications pop up. Free, too, somehow.
Now if they could add some blackberry-style filters (where the email doesn't go to the device, but stays in my Inbox), I'd be ecstatic.
Re: (Score:2)
apple has nothing like this, do they? normally, its an all or nothing wipe, just like outlook 'wants'.
Moxier, a 3rd party iOS app.
Re: (Score:2)
the good app has this feature. And it even allows web browsing the corporate network (which is walled off) through the app on my iphone while my bb can only follow corp policy, including no photo taking, no voice recording, no blog visiting, no "questionable sites" visited. the Good app (iPhone or Android I believe, though I only use it on iOS right now) dominates the bb, and gives me a reliable device, not some overpriced bb POS.
bb is a terrible device. there is no middle ground. it exists because old
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't disagree, but to be fair you can turn on iCloud backups and simply restore it all back.
Re: (Score:2)
Good MDM software will containerize corporate data and put it in a 3rd party mail app which won't be backed up by iCloud.
Oh Good (Score:2)
I hope it makes Android and iOS fully dependent on a desktop (windows only) computer and heavy weight BES server (windows only). I sure hope it changes the software so to do anything on the phone itself I have to memorize commands that aren't in any menu option.
I can't wait to have BBM. That will teach those bad employees who think they can choose their own xmpp client with Google Chat.
Sorry, disgruntled BES admin rant. Just shut it down a few months ago! Life is great!
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds like the both of you are incompetent and shouldn't be touching enterprise-level stuff in the first place.
Which will do what exactly against a screenshot (Score:2)
So no copy paste, but screen shot is fine.
Also good luck dealing with rooted or jailbroken devices. Sure you can try to test for that, but since others have already tried there are now toolkits to break such testing.
Re: (Score:2)
If someone is determined to steal a corporation's data, they'll be able to find a way to do it regardless. Blocking copy & paste is a good casual reminder to not take work data out of the BlackBerry app.
Or... it's just a pointless inconvenience because, as you said, "If someone is determined to steal a corporation's data, they'll be able to find a way to do it regardless." Why would I need a casual reminder to not do something I'm not going to do, unless I'm going to do it, and am able to find a way?
Information will find a way.
We're already using this (Score:5, Interesting)
"Riding iOS and Android To Power It's Comeback" (Score:2)
I read that as "How Blackberry is struggling to stay relevant after people stopped using the devices on which their services are used".
I do think it's better for everyone when there are more viable choices and more competition in the market, but let's not kid ourselves that Blackberry putting an app on another platform or two is them riding those platforms in order to "power their comeback". At best, it's analogous to what Sega did during/after the Dreamcast, and while we might be able to say that Sega is a
Re: (Score:2)
I read that as "How Blackberry is struggling to stay relevant after people stopped using the devices on which their services are used"
I agree with you here - they are trying to remain relevant by become an ecosystem, not a device vendor. If they can build a strong enough enterprise solution that runs on a number of devices, besides their own, they can offer companies a total solution w/o locking them in to a specific brand of hardware; and offer a total package for companies that want one standard device. I doubt they can stay viable as a hardware unique solution simply because that mens tehy must innovate in hardware as well as software,
Let's take a look at their backend in a year. (Score:2)
iPhone/Android/Blackberry either commoditizes BES or leverage into a global backbone infrastructure for corporate types needing more than TELCO signal.
rm -fr /path (Score:2)
when did rm -fr /path/to/corporate_data become so innovative ?
So much BB hate... (Score:2)
If you're making uninformed decisions at work like you make uninformed comments on slashdot, ya better be ready for the unemployment line.
Re: (Score:2)
It's because you have two types of people on Slashdot.
Those with actual experience in the real world who have encountered things like BES and seen first hand why there are still even with it's decreased marketshare, millions of people using Blackberries.
Then on the other hand, you have the students, the people who never really went anywhere in life, and the unemployed due to incompetence.
Guess which person makes which type of comment?
The problem is that over the years the number of students et. al. who thin
Re: (Score:2)
Why now? (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
The first stage of grief is shock and denial. Sometimes that can take a while (years) to get through. Eventually you reach acceptance and recovery.
Re: Why now? (Score:1)