A Look At Competitors to the Surface and iPad 193
"Asus and other Microsoft OEM partners have also launched their own versions of Windows RT tablets that will compete with Microsoft's Surface. It's interesting to see the different design approaches being taken, some of which are similar to Android devices currently on the market. The Asus Vivo Tab RT, for example, is based on a 1.3GHz Tegra 3 SoC with 2GB of DDR3 memory, 32GB or 64GB of on board Flash storage, and looks a lot like their Transformer Prime 10-inch slate. The internal electronics are similar to Surface, with NVIDIA's Tegra 3 claiming the lion's share of Windows RT designs at launch. Microsoft's new touch-centric OS handles smoothly on the tablet and performance looks to be impressive, especially with respect to multitasking and application switching."
There's also the newly-launched Samsung Galaxy Note II (Android-based, and a so called "phablet," rather than a tablet), the Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga (an upcoming Windows RT tablet with a keyboard permanently attached), and the Archos 101 XS.
what does RT do that the ipad doesn't? (Score:2)
there has to be at least one reason to buy it
iOS does Exchange ActiveSync email,
you can develop your own enterprise apps for it
lots of other corporate apps in the app store
Re:what does RT do that the ipad doesn't? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:what does RT do that the ipad doesn't? (Score:4, Insightful)
because if im going to spend $500 or more do i buy the product that has sold 100 million units and has lots of software and developer support? or do i buy the new one that doesn't seem to have a feature to make it better, has almost no developer support and may be killed off in a few months like the HP tablet
Re:what does RT do that the ipad doesn't? (Score:5, Insightful)
You didn't answer the question. He asked why there has to be one platform. You answered why you would prefer one platform over another. Good for your karma, poor for discussion.
And as it stands, there are already two popular platforms that meet those criteria. A third isn't going to hurt anything, if it even catches on.
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there doesn't have to be one, but what does RT bring to the table? Android has lots of apps. why buy RT over Android?
Re:what does RT do that the ipad doesn't? (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft office?
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Never got this. What on earth makes you think that Win8's multitasking is actually any better?
Because MS has been working on it for the last two decades?
He asked the obvious followup (Score:5, Interesting)
You didn't answer the question. He asked why there has to be one platform.
There's no need to answer that because that answer is obvious. There does not need to be one platform.
Then the obvious question after that is, why is Windows RT capable of BEING another platform enterprises would want to use?
My answer to that would be; it can be an enterprise platform even just resting on Office suppot. But it will not be replacing iPads, it will be replacing laptops for some people that only need office (say secretaries or some executives).
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Why would it replace laptops but not iPads?
Do you think that business users are going to carry along two tablets? To what end? For what purpose?
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100 million units and has lots of software and developer support?
Haha. you silly. Trade in your blackberry.
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Because Windows will never have developer support. /s
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Because Windows will never have developer support. /s
Windows RT only allows third party developers to write "Metro" apps that access the WinRT API. WinRT is the API for Metro apps on both Windows RT and Windows 8.
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That doesn't mean the developers are going anywhere. It may cause some to leave, but Windows is, and will be for the foreseeable future, huge.
Developers may also be attracted to the write once, compile for phone, tablet and PC scheme.
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Wow, and I thought Apple users were the maniacally loyal ones.
Re:what does RT do that the ipad doesn't? (Score:4, Insightful)
There needs to be one device that does everything I want.
Why? Because I want it that way, I don't want to buy this one device for one feature and another device for another feature, that would be idiotic.
There doesn't need to be a brand that does it all, and there doesn't have to be just one device that does everything I want. There can be many devices from many brands that do everything I want.
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That's only true if you have a limited budget. Ideally, your office or household would have a panopoly of computers, sharing data, and you would just pick up the computer that fits your needs at the time? Do I need a keyboard?A large monitor? Something that can be used in one hand.. etc..
I mean, suppose you want to read a novel. If it's a sunny day, and glare is a problem, you pick the kindle.If you want color, you pick a tablet--eg. the retina ipad.
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"I don't want to buy this one device for one feature and another device for another feature"
So, you want your car to make toast?
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And margaritas.
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Why do we have to have the one brand that rules them all?
There are already several good brands of Android tablets on the market. Competition among brands is going quite well, and isn't the problem. The question is why anyone would want a third tablet OS. If you care about openness you go with Android; if you want the most apps and smoothest UI, you go with iOS. I don't see where WinRT fits in here.
The Surface Pro is a different story – I can see that appealing to businesses who want a tablet with de
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Android and iOS are not the be-all, end-all of mobile operating systems. BB10 and Windows 8 have advantages over both and may or may not be a better fit than the two current leaders.
Windows RT seems like a wash, though I can see it competing successfully against iOS and Android in the enterprise just by having Microsoft Office. It could have been a real contender, but they locked "Metro" apps to the Store and put up a few pointless barriers for enterprise customers. If they change their tune and allow "M
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> Why do we have to have the one brand that rules them all?
Because wasting man-years to re-develop solutions is the height of stupidity, inefficiency, and waste. That is one of the biggest problems of Capitalism. Redundancy and Waste.
Microsoft and Sony spend billions on R&D just so that they can "win" ; because if they "lose" that means they won't be around. Instead of working together, and lowering their expenses they have their ego, pride, and greed so far up their ass that they would rather was
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"Microsoft and Sony spend billions on R&D just so that they can "win"
Well it's a good thing they have the money to actually do R&D to discover new technologies and ways to apply them. It takes a lot of resources to move R&D forward and there are a lot of times when the money is spent the end result will not recoup the time and money invested.
". Instead of working together, and lowering their expenses they have their ego, pride, and greed so far up their ass that they would rather waste people
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Office. Good enough reason for some, I would say. And as the ecosystem build apps that can run on both your PC and your phone.
Re:what does RT do that the ipad doesn't? (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft announced that Office will be available for iOS and Android in March 2013.
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I somehow dont expect them to have the same features or ease of use as Windows RT.
Re:what does RT do that the ipad doesn't? (Score:4, Insightful)
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See correction below. Microsoft has commented that the Microsoft Czech subsidiary information was incorrect (may be it is happening earlier than the information reported, or may be it is not happening at all). So it does seem Microsoft does not care about Office for Android & iPads. May be they are changing into a hardware company as it has been reported.
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Microsoft cares about Office for iOS and Android about as much as Apple cares about FaceTime and iMessage for other platforms, and for the same reasons.
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Microsoft didn't sell hardware ... now they do. If they could get away with pulling an Apple and locking everyone else out, they would. Look at the "Metro" store. Google puts out cross platform stuff because they want to sell ads on all platforms. As for their mobile OS ... if Apple did not have any serious competition in that area, do you think iOS would get more open or more closed? Would Google make more money or less? It ain't necessarily altruistic, but it's good for users.
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Microsoft didn't sell hardware ... now they do
What? They've been in the hardware game for a while.
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I somehow dont expect them to have the same features or ease of use as Windows RT.
You mean it will be missing even more features than the RT version and you won't be allowed to use it for non-commercial use as well as commercial use? Maybe people will just install it to look at.
Re:what does RT do that the ipad doesn't? (Score:5, Informative)
Correction: The press release from the Microsoft Czech subsidiary outlining the release has since been denied by Microsoft:
"The information shared by our Czech subsidiary is not accurate. We do not have anything further to share at this time."
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No, No they did not. MS headquarters baiscally said their Czech office was smoking crack.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/10/3483076/office-for-ipad-ios-android-2013 [theverge.com]
Pay attention to the update at the bottom of the story.
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No, No they did not. MS headquarters baiscally said their Czech office was smoking crack.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/10/3483076/office-for-ipad-ios-android-2013 [theverge.com]
Pay attention to the update at the bottom of the story.
No, they issued a denial because the Czech office released information that it was not authorized to release. I don't think anyone thinks that the Czech office was pulling something out of their arse. Office for iOS and Android are real projects in development at Microsoft as contingency plans incase Windows RT falls flat on its face.
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I think the czechs meant html5 office via subscription is on its way, not native versions up for a one time sale. But what I think or you think doesn't change that we don't actually know anything other than MS hasn't officially announced it, which doesn't mean that its real and not announced, inaccurately announced, or just plain does not exist.
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Microsoft announced that Office will be available for iOS and Android in March 2013.
If this is true, then someone, somewhere in Microsoft is starting to contemplate the possibility that Windows may not be the OS of the future.
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and how much is that going to cost?
i'm sure all these corporations that are on XP will start putting in PO's to buy MS Office on RT and upgrade their regular office suites for $300 a user just to get MS Office on a mobile device
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It is free.
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Office. Good enough reason for some, I would say. And as the ecosystem build apps that can run on both your PC and your phone.
Google will be forced to respond by throwing money at (most probably) Apache foundation to bring up OpenOffce on Android faster and eliminate that one advantage. Of course Google would be a lot smarter to throw money at LibreOffice, but Google has some Apache bigots on staff that sometimes get in the way of doing the smartest thing. But... throw enough money and OpenOffice will get there quickly enough. LibreOffice will soon follow of course, because the nice thing about the Apache license is, you can pull
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Oh, and nobody cares about building apps that run both on a PC and a Windows phone. Not even a little bit.
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Re:what does RT do that the ipad doesn't? (Score:5, Informative)
Side by side application multitasking
Multi-user operating system
Expandable storage
More peripheral device support
More manufacturers at a variety of price points and options
More form factors (foldable hybrid, detachable screen, pure tablet, etc.)
Open file system for managing and organizing files
Networking for connecting to other PCs, transferring files, serving media, etc.
Not sure why you're talking about Windows RT with respect to corporate though. Windows RT is aimed squarely at the consumer market. Windows 8 tablets like the Surface pro are for Enterprise. There, the list for what Windows 8 does over iPad is much much longer. (Either way, nothing stopping you from developing your own enterprise apps for Windows RT.)
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The Surface Pro isn't competing with the iPad. At it's likely price point, you're talking Ultraportables, Notebooks, and the Mac Air.
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Corrections (Score:4, Interesting)
Office built in for free
That is the biggest draw for sure.
Expandable storage
Only for media.
More peripheral device support
The iPad at this point has a greater range of peripheral support.
More form factors (foldable hybrid, detachable screen, pure tablet, etc.)
With all of the accessories I also think the iPad has the upper hand here. You can buy a ruggedized waterproof iPad case for example...
Open file system for managing and organizing files
Which non-technical users do not want.
Networking for connecting to other PCs, transferring files, serving media, etc.
Which the iPad also does.
Windows 8 tablets like the Surface pro are for Enterprise. There, the list for what Windows 8 does over iPad is much much longer.
The Surface Pro is not an iPad competitor. It is a Macbook Air competitor.
In fact I'm not sure if the same is not also true of Surface RT...
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Only for media.
Which is more than can be said for iPad. Further, by media, what you really mean to correct me with is that application installs are only on the built in storage. You can put any file type on the surface, not just media, as the file system is open.
The iPad at this point has a greater range of peripheral support.
Of course excluding every mouse out there. But already with the built in USB port Windows RT has support for keyboards, mice, scanners, printers, USB memory, cameras, game controllers, external harddrives, external CD/DVD drives, etc.
Which non-technical users do not want.
The question was not "what doe
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Which is more than can be said for iPad.
I can get external WiFi hard drives if I want more storage space and play media from them.
Further, by media, what you really mean to correct me with is that application installs are only on the built in storage.
That is correct. But that matters more than you would think.
Of course excluding every mouse out there. But already with the built in USB port Windows RT has support for keyboards, mice, scanners, printers, USB memory, cameras, game controllers, external hardd
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I can get external WiFi hard drives if I want more storage space and play media from them.
Wifi harddrive? Really? Those things have terrible transfer rates, cost at least twice as much as regular harddrives, and further require extra power draw. I haven't used one with an iPad so I'm not sure how the experience is there, but I have not been pleased with them.
Regardless, the iPad still does not offer always-in extensible storage. Max you can ever do is 64GB. For around $100 I can put in a 128GB SD card into the surface for total always on-board storage of 160GB (which incidentally is about th
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With all of the accessories I also think the iPad has the upper hand here. You can buy a ruggedized waterproof iPad case for example...
Sorry, forgot this one. Sure can make a franken-iPad by cobbling together different parts and accessories, but the iPad is still the iPad not matter what you really want to buy. With Windows tablets you have different form factors (hybrid-slide out keyboard, detachable keyboard, rotating screen, etc.), different size displays, different wireless options (NFC for instance, not something available for iPad), different materials, different resolutions, etc. All these come in at different price points. This cho
Re-Corrections (Score:2)
Expandable storage only for media?
Well, I'm not sure if you're counting documents and so forth in there, but if so, carry on. With that said, what are you going to need more than the Surface's built-in storage for *other* than media? However, if you decide you must have it, use the various Windows system tools (disk management, Powershell, whatever you want) to either turn "C:\Program Files\WindowsApps" into a symlink* to a folder on the SD card, or make the SD card's mount point *be* the WindowsApps folder
Symlinks are not supported if apps cannot use (Score:2)
Yes, Windows supports true symlinks, and has since Vista. No, I'm not talking about junctions or kernel-object-only links. The command is "mklink"
The last time I tried using mklink I gave up when I realized most applications couldn't follow the symlink. What good is a symlink if it's only usable by the shell?
Windows developers are NOT expecting symlinks.
My bet is that most WindowsRT applications will break if they encounter a path with a symlink.
There are over 100,000 USB2 (or lower) peripherals.
And the nu
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Office. 'nuff said. If you need Office, substitutes won't cut it.
If media consumption is all you care about, there's probably no big reason to choose Windows RT over an iPad (for now at least)
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Its special trick appears to be a version of Office built in.
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How about:
* Actual, physical USB ports?
* Actual, physical SD-Card storage?
* Actual, physical Keyboard (with Surface and Transformer-types) and ability to use any usb mouse/keyboard
* Full Bluetooth support (tethering, file transfer, messaging, etc..)
* non-proprietary connections to common devices like Monitors, Printers, etc..
* Ability to join a windows domain
* Ability to use Office
* The va
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Two things.
One - and this is one an end-user will care about. Microsoft Office.
Two - and this is one that the enterprise cares about. Active Directory (specifically, Group Policy)
Having a real version of Office will be very useful (although there is an announced version of Office for iOS, but I'm sure it'll be almost office, like the Mac version is) however having the fine-grained control over the device that AD provides is an improvement in a lot of areas over Apple's MDM capabilities.
It's all about. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's all about. (Score:5, Insightful)
Does anyone really believe that the Surface will end up with any reasonable market share of the tablet market?
That's not really the interesting question. The question is, will Windows 8 modern apps, Windows 8 RT and Windows Phone 8 end up with a reasonable share of the market? Because the combination is what will determine the ecosystem size.
Windows 8 will likely, at some point, end up on 300-500 million PCs, like Windows 7. Windows 8 tablets? Who knows. RT tablets? Really who knows. And as much as I like WP, that's an even longer shot. But if a developer says "I can write my software one, against the WinRT APIs, and it'll run on 300 million PCs, 50 million tablets, and some number of phones", it doesn't really matter if Microsoft sells 5 million or 25 million Surface tablets. Especially when people realize "hey, that application I bought runs on all of these... and my settings and data is on all of my devices...".
There's more to an ecosystem than a single device.
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But if a developer says "I can write my software one, against the WinRT APIs, and it'll run on 300 million PCs, 50 million tablets, and some number of phones"
That is one lofty goal there, I'll believe it when it happens.
There will be fragmentation.
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And now that Microsoft makes an decent alternative available, people are crying "why another option?" "what's wrong with android / ios?"
Seriously?
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That's not really the interesting question. The question is, will Windows 8 modern apps, Windows 8 RT and Windows Phone 8 end up with a reasonable share of the market? Because the combination is what will determine the ecosystem size.
Windows 8 will likely, at some point, end up on 300-500 million PCs, like Windows 7. Windows 8 tablets? Who knows. RT tablets? Really who knows. And as much as I like WP, that's an even longer shot. But if a developer says "I can write my software one, against the WinRT APIs, and it'll run on 300 million PCs, 50 million tablets, and some number of phones", it doesn't really matter if Microsoft sells 5 million or 25 million Surface tablets. Especially when people realize "hey, that application I bought runs on all of these... and my settings and data is on all of my devices...".
There's more to an ecosystem than a single device.
There are a lot of 'ifs' in there that will determine how viable of an ecosystem MS can make. The Write Once, Run Anywhere ideal, IMO, has too many limitations due to the wide ecosystem to ever be a draw for developers. But you make some good points: Seamless integration between devices can be a big selling point. Can MS get there from here?
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At this point, there aren't enough non-standard apps running on tablets to make the software matter. I'll happily use one program under Mac OS X and another under Android. And Android might eventually save the desktop linux application space, well maybe.
Imho, there is a much bigger question around form factor here, but that's not the same for everybody. I'm thrilled with the Note myself, big enough, but never too big.
As an aside, there are occasions where you'll find the Note too big, but only if you wea
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Nowhere near enough internal memory (Score:2)
FOo
RT is a LOSER (Score:2)
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Play HD video for starters. My netbook chokes on anything greater than PAL and flash video playback of nearly any resolution is choppy as hell.
I'd also throw in there boot instantly and launch the browser instantly. Last time I started my Windows 7 netbook, it took forever to start (applying patches), then I had several pop-ups for software updates and to top it off Firefox took an eternity to get to a point where I could
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I'm not aware of any $200 netbooks with 1920x1080 screens (or netbooks at anything else in "netbook" price range, either).
A $200 netbook won't have an SSD, 4GB of RAM, and a Core i5 (quad-core, 64-bit, virtualization-capable, etc.) CPU. That means, among other things, no Client Hyper-V.
Netbooks don't have touchscreens or stylus input. Their keyboards can't be removed or folded out of the way for easy use when not at a desk. They're highly portable laptops, but not -on-the-go devices like tablets.
Netbooks, e
That Archos 101 XS (Score:2)
I'm digging it. A cover that doubles as a keyboard is nice to have. Sure, it's a crappy keyboard, but for the thickness and the price, it can't be beat. Also, comes with ICS, has decent power under the hood, and the screen is OK. And comes at a very competitive price.
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Thanks for the warning. IPS is super-important to me, as viewing angle limits can cause headaches, to me. So only IPS for me.
I've not seen the Archos XS IRL, yet, only a couple of reviews. Your friend's account is very useful!
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It's the software, stupid. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody cares about tablet specs outside of screen size, battery life, and price. It's all about the software. Is it fast, responsive, and usable?
Is it easy to develop for? Will it be around for a while to justify developers investing in it? Does the company have a history of keeping platforms around?
Re:It's the software, stupid. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody cares about tablet specs outside of screen size, battery life, and price.
I hear that a lot, since yesterday, mostly from Apple fanbois. I'm not saying you're one of them, just that this "nobody cares about tablet specs" has become an awfully popular phrase as of very recently.
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There is a lot of truth to it... the kinds of people that would buy a tablet, are also largely uninterested in geek stuff like hardware specs.
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I agree that those are frequently the most important, but for those of us looking for netvertibles (Asus Transformer, etc.), other important specs/features include:
-USB Ports
-SD card slots
-Repairability/upgradability (understanding that the trend is to create self-contained devices for increased device purchasing)
-Camera(s)
Wish-List
-- PC OS (not a phone OS)
A.. what now? (Score:2, Redundant)
A PHABLET? Uh, no, it's a fucking tablet. I will slap anyone I ever hear use the word "phablet". That's just fucking stupid.
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The word "phablet" may be stupid, but the Galaxy Note II isn't a tablet.
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A PHABLET? Uh, no, it's a fucking tablet.
So you're just objecting to the spelling - it needs to be FABLET?
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Well, cheer up, the guy who coined "blog" wound up being homeless. Maybe whatever nitwit came up with "phablet" will suffer an even worse fate.
Tegra 3 a liability (Score:2)
Reviews indicate that single-threaded performance is a huge bottleneck for the Surface (Microsoft Office maxes out a CPU core just when you type text), so the fact that the Tegra 3 (with its Cortex A9s) is being used everywhere (and at a low clockspeed to boot) is a big problem. Had they gone with even a dual core Krait, (which at reasonable clockspeeds can have more than double the single-threaded performance) they would have been much better off.
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And this time Microsoft can't blame the low specs on the manufacturers like they did in regards to Vista.
badly phrased title (Score:2)
> A Look At Competitors to the Surface and iPad
Oh, c'mon. Lumping the Surface together with the iPad is at very least premature, and more than a little presumptive. Whatever Microsoft is calling "surface" these days is only a few clever commercials so far, and the iPad and it's main competitor (Android tablets) have been out for years. The competitor to the Surface is every single tablet out there, including the few and slightly wonky Windows 7 tablets. The iPad, with its known track record (however
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I also notice there isn't a submitter cited - so I'm wondering if this is some sort of weird paid contribution from a Microsoft marketing person.
Competitors to the Surface and iPad? Really? Would anyone outside of Redmond think the Surface even belongs in that phrase?
Seriously - right now, the iPad pretty owns the space; but if you want to talk about competitors, it would make sense to talk about tablets that have actually hit the market already and been purchased - like the Nexus or Kindle Fire.
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Actually, the submitter is MojoKid [slashdot.org] from HotHardware.com (the website linked in the summary). I guess the editor dropped it out, as the submitter's name did not add anything to the summary.
Want to be a competitor? (Score:2)
Have the device open. It could be useful with Windows 8, or not. Being able to install on it Windows 7, Linux (chrome os, meego/mer, ubuntu, all of them if possible), and even MacOSX, and use on it what you really prefer could help to sell the actual hardware, what is what they are interested on, as mark a differece with the rest.
A lot will have Windows 8 or Android, and offer similar enough hardware, what could separate you from the rest is what you could do different with software, and being open is bei
Misleading subject line (Score:2)
> "A Look At Competitors to the Surface and iPad "
Seems to imply that iPad, and Surface, and industry standards, and anything else is an alternative. But practically nobody is using a Surface. It's like saying "A Look At Competitors to Windows and FreeBSD "
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A rooted android device is going to be your best bet.
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And that will solve his or her discontinued software from Mysteryappwriter#78234 how?
Because he will be in charge of what is on his device, much like if he installed linux on the device, which is what he said he wanted.
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And that will solve his or her discontinued software from Mysteryappwriter#78234 how?
Because he will be in charge of what is on his device, much like if he installed linux on the device, which is what he said he wanted.
I'm just as in charge with my iPhone5 as I was with my Android Optimus. Every bit of software aside from what came with the OS is there because I PUT IT THERE. I couldn't really care less about what zealots from either platform would say, save that I think the above statement is a non-issue. If I wanted something that I'd have to handroll every step, I'd build a custom desktop, and I have. If I'm buying a tablet though, I want instant gratification. I want it to work when I take it out of the box, and
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I'm just as in charge with my iPhone5 as I was with my Android Optimus.
break
Plus, I'm not going to invest my time/money in software that can be discontinued at any point by Mysteryappwriter#78234 or hardware that can be discontinued/EOL'd at anytime by some manufacturer-and-guardian-of-the-OS overlord.
When I was trying to decide how to respond to the original post I thought of many ways to tell the person that their request was ridiculous, but instead figured I would give the person a place to start and I figured that a rooted android device would probably be the best place for him to start.
So yes you are just as much in control of your apps with iPhone as with Android and as with Linux.
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Bingo.
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If you develop a Windows 8 Metro style app -- it will work immediately on the tablet.
So you'll be able to sell it to all three people with Windows tablets.
If you develop a Windows XP app, it will work on 95% of Windows boxes (maybe more, I'm not sure how many old NT/98/etc machines are still running), and 100% of boxes people are likely to buy software for other than ARM tablets.
Why would Windows devs want to develop new apps that restrict them to a tiny subset of Windows systems, unless Microsoft pay them to do so?
To get on the ground floor of a new platform? If the platform takes off than that's a lot of smart money to be made.
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Kind of, except you can fold the keyboard all the way back behind the screen, making it a slightly-thicker-than-normal ARM tablet (it has all the tablet features, like touchscreen and minimal hardware buttons around the screen). The keyboard can also be folded past 180 degrees to act as an adjustable stand.