After Complaints, AT&T Solidifies, Increases Data Limit 211
New submitter rullywowr writes "After many users expressed anger, AT&T has moved the slowdown throttling bottleneck from 3GB of data to 5GB of data for users of 4G LTE smart phones. 'Previously, AT&T slowed speeds for subscribers who reached the top 5% of data users for that billing cycle and geographic location. Customers were outraged, arguing that the percentage method meant they had no way to know what the limit was — until AT&T informed them via text message that they were in danger of exceeding it.' AT&T still maintains the position that less than 5% of its users exceed the 3GB threshold each month."
"Unlimited data" (Score:5, Insightful)
So "unlimited data" means 3GB/5GB now?
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Re:"Unlimited data" (Score:5, Interesting)
It's still unlimited. They should have to advertise this truthfully, though.
"Unlimited data, with 3G speed for the first 3GB."
"Our unlimited data plans feature 4G speed for the first 5GB you use each month!"
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You can't say "Unlimited up until _____" ...
The "Up until ______" part is known as a LIMIT which makes it.... NOT UNLIMITED.
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It is quite clear it means data is unlimited and speed is limited.
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There is no TRULY unlimited data. The real-world data limit is always going to be your average connection speed in bits per second times the number of seconds in a month. Even with a "truly unlimited" plan you can't possibly download more than this.
That fact is not changing. What's changing is the throttling. We can't honestly say they have taken away "unlimted data" because it's still unlimited in all the senses it was for people who are grandfathered in.
If we want to be critical of AT&T, and they rich
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They aren't advertising this at all, unfortunately. This only affects grandfathered-in contracts.
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No. It means your bandwidth is reduced when you hit those thresholds, you continue to be able to exchange data beyond the 3GB/5GB, just more slowly. They're not cutting anyone off, they're throttling to prevent average users from being negatively impacted by the highest percentile users. Wireless bandwidth is limited and shared, and this is just a way of ensuring the heaviest users don't hog it all.
Think of it as the successful result of an "Occupy AT&T," where t
Re:"Unlimited data" (Score:5, Insightful)
Then all plans are and always have been unlimited, they just reduce your bandwidth to zero! (Or to 1kbps).
Calling that unlimited makes it lose all meaning.
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Anyone who thinks "unlimited" means "infinite," for timed (monthly) service on a network with bandwidth obviously subject to technology limits, is either being disingenuous or ignorant.
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Then they should call it "flat rate", not unlimited.
Anyone who thinks "unlimited" means "infinite," for timed (monthly) service on a network with bandwidth obviously subject to technology limits, is either being disingenuous or ignorant.
Of course it's not infinite, but an e.g. "unlimited 5mbps plan" should mean there are no other limits besides the fixed bandwidth.
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When is the last time you looked at your cellular bill? There are multiple "billing cycles," each beginning on a different day of the month. It's not like everyone resets at once, as you imply.</ignoredfact>
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Too late.
AT&T and Comcrap are both "you get a warning and throttled if you exceed 250GB" shops now. Meanwhile, applications use more all the time. HD video from Hulu+ or Netflix or Amazon streaming? Whoops! Telecommute? Oh dear. Set up a backup pairing with your family or friends, over Crashplan [crashplan.com]? Oh my.
Re:"Unlimited data" (Score:4, Insightful)
Swamped on purpose (Score:3)
Comcast throttles if and only if the local CMTS is swamped and it throttles top users first. This is by FAR the most fair system.
Unless Comcast decides to keep the local CMTS swamped on purpose because shareholders want short-term dividends more than medium-term network improvement. See a previous Slashdot story about congestion by choice [slashdot.org].
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You dont have a family at home that streams HD to the TV. 4 TV's with apple TV's and streaming happening on all 4 (we do not pay for cable, it's a rip off) = I hit the 250gig cap in 20 days.
All I do is my monthly bitch out Comcast rep dance on the phone, and the cap is lifted, I will be getting a second modem and load balancing though just to shut them the hell up.
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Uncap with Comcast Business Class (Score:4, Informative)
I pay for a higher end connection from Comcast
If you pay enough, you get into the "Comcast Business Class" tier, which has no such cap. Telecommuters should consider asking their employer to pay for it as a business expense.
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video streaming uses a lot, but still you have to work to get to 250GB.
Does 1 hour of HD netflix per day per person in a 4 person household count as "work"? As that'll handily blow through a 250GB cap in slightly less than 3 weeks.
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If by small percentage, you mean 98%, then yes, it's a small percentage.
Re:"Unlimited data" (Score:5, Insightful)
here is to hoping that they "do not change the terms of our deal again"
well, you deal with the sith and you get what you expect.
Bandwidth Calculations (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Bandwidth Calculations (Score:5, Insightful)
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" AT&T still maintains the position that less than 5% of its users exceed the 3GB threshold each month."
This metric is not of just iPhone users. I have a phone I use as just a phone. No text, no data, just voice. I don't text on the phone. I'm older and hand held phones don't come in the large print edition. I use a Netbook for IM. It provides a full keyboard and usable screen.
Re:Bandwidth Calculations (Score:4, Informative)
I'm older and hand held phones don't come in the large print edition
Actually they do, we got my grandmother a ZTE S302 [phonerpt.com] exactly because it had nice big letters.
It's probably a pain to read and write SMSes in, because only a couple of words fit in the screen.
Re:Bandwidth Calculations (Score:4, Insightful)
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Some executives tasked a junior guy with forecasting how much usage their new network would get back in 1997.
He wrote a spreadsheet that multiplied the "expected number of users" by the "expected data amount per user."
He produced three forecasts for each: high, medium, and low. The end result was a tic-tac-toe board of "here's how much network we'd have to build for each of these nine forecasts".
The resulting 3x3 grid was tossed into a board meeting where uninformed executives argued "this is too high" or
Re:Bandwidth Calculations (Score:5, Insightful)
The smart thing about their 95% percentile calculation is that the bar keeps getting lower.
If the 95% mark is at 5GB today and they throttle back anyone that exceeds 5GB, no one will be able to go beyond 5GB of usage, so next month the 95% level might be 4.9GB. Then since no one can go much beyond 4.9GB, the next month it becomes 4.8GB. And so on.
Until finally, they are throttling once you hit 100KB of bandwidth and they can advertise the world's fastest wireless network since no one can use it. You can get one hit to speedtest.net to test your bandwidth and see your blazing 25mbit of bandwidth before they throttle you to 144kb of bandwidth.
Sounds like a good strategy.
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Previously, AT&T slowed speeds for subscribers who reached the top 5% of data users for that billing cycle and geographic location. Customers were outraged, arguing that the percentage method meant they had no way to know what the limit was — until AT&T informed them via text message that they were in danger of exceeding it.' AT&T still maintains the position that less than 5% of its users exceed the 3GB threshold each month.
So if they limit the top 5% of data users for that billing cyc
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Seems pretty straight forward to take that data, crunch it, and come up with a number which ensures the available bandwidth is shared between all users, on a reasonably equitable basis.
A cell site has a fixed available bandwidth (for a given technology), once
Re:Bandwidth Calculations (Score:5, Insightful)
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Moar antennas (Score:2)
the carrier can't simply put in bigger pipes
Why exactly can't the carrier put up more antennas to make more cells?
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Documentation, please? (you won't find any, none of the wireless carriers guarantee bandwidth)
It still accomplishes their goal (Score:5, Insightful)
For 3G (read, ALL iPhones) its still 3GB.
So for iPhone customers on the old unlimited plan, they still have a choice:
For the same amount of money, either stick with the "Unlimited" plan which goes useless at 3GB, or go to a metered plan where you get 3GB and above that its $10/GB in overages...
As for the 4G/LTE phones, those are in a much smaller minority, as the big grandfathered ones that AT&T dislikes are the iPhones.
Re:It still accomplishes their goal (Score:5, Interesting)
Their goal is much more devious.
They are going to keep the data caps as low as they possibly can. I'm convinced that throttling the heaviest users is just a way to reinforce this idea that using the network costs money. The truth is, the only problem on the network is peak time congestion and throttling the heaviest users has the same effect as throttling any user during peak time.
So, AT&T gets people used to the idea that data caps are normal and necessary. Step two is about approaching companies like Pandora, Netflix, and Google and make them this offer: if you pay us a lot of money, data transferred from your service won't count in the data cap calculation. They want to be paid two times for a single user's network usage. It's so obvious to me that this is what they are working on and it's disgusting.
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Re:It still accomplishes their goal (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It still accomplishes their goal (Score:4, Informative)
AT&T is actually fairly reasonable when it comes to peering. You can see their terms here [att.com]. I would be shocked if AT&T spent anything network access in the US.
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Using their network doesn't cost them money.
Yes it does. It takes a while to pay off the cost of putting up a cell tower.
Still not unlimited (Score:5, Insightful)
I've avoided AT&T and Verizon for this reason. I should be able to use my phone all I want.
Sprint is definitely in a winning position.
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I have had Verizon 3G for nearly two years, and have 'abused' my bandwidth since day one.
I routinely download 8-10GB per day via tether, and Verizon has yet to even glare at me, much less charge overages, or throttle or cancel my service. THAT is true unlimited service.
Either the top-5% of bandwidth users are really using their phones HEAVILY, or Verizon just doesn't care.
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As a spoiled sprint user (Score:2)
Are handheld games that big? (Score:2)
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Why would it matter where you connect to the Internet from - whether your phone or a Coffee Shop WiFi point?
It all goes to the same internet, and Verizon/AT&T/T-Mobile/Sprint don't pay any more per ___ of bandwidth than the coffee shop - if not less because they are the carrier themselves.
It's just a scam. Use your phone however you can get away with it.
You are paying for the last mile (Score:5, Informative)
Why would it matter where you connect to the Internet from - whether your phone or a Coffee Shop WiFi point?
Because it costs more to send bits over cellular last mile than over Wi-Fi to a wired last mile.
It all goes to the same internet
Over different last miles. Different last miles have different costs per bit. That's why Comcast can afford to charge the same for 250 GB that a cellular carrier charges for 5 GB.
Copper was already in the ground (Score:3)
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Wired and wireless cannot be compared with regard to bandwidth. There is a technology limit for wireless whic
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WTF are you downloading that is huge? Biggest game on my iPad is 150MB. My iPhone is about 70MB.
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Really? I thought the iPhone was 4.54 x 2.309 x 0.37 inches.
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They listen ? (Score:2)
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The lawsuits might have helped.
AT&T Lies. (Score:5, Insightful)
"...AT&T still maintains the position that less than 5% of its users exceed the 3GB threshold each month."
Really? Seems to me AT&T is causing an awful lot of pain and bad publicity for themselves by creating such limitations around what supposedly accounts for only 5% of their consumer base. Seems like the effort would be worth a hell of a lot more than 5% of revenue.
Re:AT&T Lies. (Score:5, Funny)
"Here at AT&T we have a long, rich history of screwing our customers. From the original days of our telephone monopoly, to our sub-standard yet overpriced DSL service and its associated lawsuits, we strive to charge you at least 10 times the value of the service you receive. This is our promise to you.
It has come to our attention that a tiny fraction of our cellular data customers are using more than the rest, even though they are within the data amount we promised upon signing their contract. We simply cannot allow even the smallest portion of our clients to actually receive what they pay for, or have service at the level they expect. This would set a terribly hard-to-follow precedent of giving customers what they want and what they pay for. We simply cannot handle that.
On this note, we have today decided to return to bill-per-hour internet access. Based on the 1997 AOL dial-up rate, we are now charging $3.67 per hour* for your cellular data bandwidth. We still consider this to be 'unlimited' as you are able to use as much data as you are willing to pay for. We thank your for your continued subservience, and your willingness to put up with us constantly screwing you. We truly believe you don't have any choice in carriers, so your resistance is futile."
*Any time over one second is billed as a full hour. No prorating or refunds allowed. An additional 30 pages of terms and conditions that none of you will read also apply.
Blazing fast LTE speeds (Score:2)
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50000 / 100 = 50.
I guess you failed math? You're an order of magnitude off.
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I've got bad news for you - nobody's LTE speeds are 100 MBit. That's the techincal (IEEE?) definition of 4G, however the carriers have co-oped 4G to mean "faster than 3G", or anywhere from 2Mb-6.5Mb (source: http://www.pcworld.com/article/221931/4g_wireless_speed_tests_which_is_really_the_fastest.html). So, yes, you could blow through your cap quickly - in as little as 2.5 hours of streaming at maximum current LTE speed - but not quite as fast as you think.
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Every time I've used an LTE USB modem, the typical speeds I got were heavily dependent upon the city I was in, of course.
Chicago, it was common to seed speeds of 20Mbit down/10Mbit up. San Antonio was closer to 10/2, etc. Phones, are much different due to being much more constrainted on power, of course.
buy a smartphone they said (Score:5, Insightful)
buy a smartphone they said
watch tv, movies, videos they said
you can't use that bandwidth we advertised and sold you they say
Where's the FCC investigation? (Score:2, Insightful)
These companies should lose all their spectrum for even thinking about throttling connections.
FCC start the investigation. They advertise unlimited (they did, even if they don't now) - throttling is just another way to *restrict* data - it breaks unlimited.
I for one would love to see AT&T and Verizon lose all of it's cellular spectrum because of these greedy shenanigans.
Cost for unlimited/unlimited/unlimited should be about $20.00 a phone per month. That covers any and all uses of bandwidth in use tod
NIMBYs who don't want a tower on their skyline (Score:2)
They advertise unlimited (they did, even if they don't now)
You just hit it: they don't advertise the service anymore. Therefore, they don't have to continue to offer it on contract renewals.
Cost for unlimited/unlimited/unlimited should be about $20.00 a phone per month.
That doesn't sound like enough money to buy land for more towers and deal with NIMBYs who don't want a tower on their skyline. Each cell tower can handle only a given throughput to all radios associated to it.
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An antenna doesn't have to be on a tower. If the phone companies were really motivated to solve this problem, they could.
Need competition and regulation. (Score:5, Informative)
Bullshit, we're getting robbed blind by these people, costs should be nowhere near this high.
If they took one day of bonus away from the CEO, they'd probably be able to upgrade their infrastructure enough to handle all of the current users without breaking a sweat.
Oh, but no, CEO man has to have his 7 yachts and 5 mansions. We would be terrorists if we wanted him to go without just one yacht.
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These companies aren't providing you this service out of the kindness of their hearts
What I wish
a fairly priced ala carte service
you use more, you pay more, use less, pay less
but they'll never do it, they like overcharging bandwidth misers more than they hate undercharging bandwidth hogs, see kindness of their hearts comment above.
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There are a number of these: ting.com, speakout, and a couple of others. A large majority of these are based on the Sprint network.
I guess Sprint is bleeding customers so bad that they have begun leasing their bandwidth to other companies to resell.
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I guess Sprint is bleeding customers so bad that they have begun leasing their bandwidth to other companies to resell.
There are several small companies that do that in my area under AT&T.
It's the only thing worse than being an AT&T customer, because, as you could guess, it doesn't work well if you actually use the service.
A rate cap IS a download cap (Score:2)
Finite good times finite good (Score:2)
Is this really a finite good of just a failure to invest in capacity?
Capacity is proportional to spectrum times number of towers. Spectrum is a finite good. Land on which to build towers is also a finite good.
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The real issue.. (Score:2)
What they should do, to be open and fair, is throttle heavy users on congested tower
AT&T learns from... (Score:2)
Bell Canada? I'm pretty sure that Bell Canada said 90% of their subscribers use less than 15GB a month, right up until they were required to prove it before the CRTC.
Calm Down... A LITTLE (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Calm Down... A LITTLE (Score:4, Informative)
How sure of that app are you? Have you been comparing it with what AT&T says you're using? Try dialing *3282# and see what the text message you get says. I'm willing to bet it's a *lot* more than 200mb, especially if you've been uploading images (assuming they aren't tiny).
Furthermore, people were originally angry because this throttling wasn't being applied to people necessarily going over their limits, it was people in the "top 5% of data usage", whatever that means. And there isn't a way for an app to tell you that, hence the outrage.
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top 5% in their billing area, no less. So if you're the only person with a smartphone in your zipcode, you'll always be throttled.
Re:Calm Down... A LITTLE (Score:5, Informative)
I listen to pandora/spotify/etc during my commute, plus google maps+nav, youtube videos, random webpages. I'm 8 days into my billing cycle and I'm at 1241 megs, so probably about 4gigs/month. More like 6 or 7 gigs if I use google hangout or ustream for any serious amount of time.
You're using your phone like you are on dialup, so it isn't surprising your data usage matches that.
Obligatory... (Score:2)
Throttle my data? (Score:2)
"Only 5% of users" exceed the cap? (Score:2)
Sometimes I think that people like to throw around numbers because they realize how few people understand the true impact.
Let's take "Only 5%" in real terms...
That means one in twenty people are being throttled. Crit in a d20 system? You're throttled. 1,000,000 Customers? 50,000 are throttled. That's a medium rural city being throttled. AT&T's nearly hundred million customers? Potentially five million throttled customers each month.*
5% is not a lot with a small total, but can be a pretty big numb
Then why do they bother? (Score:2)
Why upgrade? (Score:2)
Self fulfilling usage (Score:2)
If anytime someone gets close to 3GB of usage they get a threatening text telling them that they will be throttled, of course most people will use less than 3GB. They need to let it go unthrottled (and unmessaged) for a few months to see what the true usage would be if people were not being threatened. I rarely use a lot of data but discovered this last month that if I watch a half hour of video every day, that is enough to throw me into the 5%. Apparently a half hour of video a day is considered unreaso
DSL still under siege (Score:2)
Everyone seems to have found a new shiny and forgotten that AT&T's DSL services - the ones that don't carry its own IPTV service - are still being subjected to data caps.
Re:3G users? (Score:4, Informative)
it's a 3GB limit for 3G users and a 5GB limit for 4G LTE users
Re:3G users? (Score:4, Interesting)
Screw 3G. What about upping that 250 GB limit for their UVerse to something serious - like 1TB?
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What would you do if I sold "unlimited monthly data" internet access at 300bps?
Yes the data is unlimited, but 300bps is so slow that it's basically useless in 2012.
Currently AT&T doesn't seem to specify the speed of the connection once you go over your 3GB/5GB/whatever. It should be a percentage of the maximum speed, written in the contract.
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What would you do if I sold "unlimited monthly data" internet access at 300bps?
Not buy it?