Windows Phone 8 Detailed, Uses Windows 8 Kernel 267
MrSeb writes "Thanks to a leaked video — a video that Microsoft made for Nokia — we now have lots of details about Windows Phone 8 (WP8). From deep Windows 8, Skype, and SkyDrive integration, through to the addition of NFC 'wallet' payments and BitLocker encryption, it sounds like Windows Phone 8 will be close to iOS and Android in terms of features. The interesting stuff is under the hood, though: WP8 will have the Windows 8 kernel instead of the Windows CE kernel of its predecessors. Through the Win 8 kernel, WP8 will support native code and multi-core processors. It will also have the same network stack, security, and multimedia support as Windows 8. While Win 8 apps won't be directly compatible with Windows Phone 8, Windows Phone manager Joe Belfiore says developers will be able to 'reuse — by far — most of their code.'"
Scrolling (Score:5, Funny)
And it'll still scroll more smoothly than an Android.
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My Asus Transformer Prime 201 (Android 4.03) scrolls and rotates the screen every bit as fast as iOS devices. Try harder next time.
Wow.. (Score:4, Funny)
I did not know that Android sucked so bad you had to compare quad core devices with single core ones.
Multi-purpose phones. (Score:5, Funny)
Xbox too? (Score:5, Interesting)
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It was explicitly stated as the idea when Windows 7 was getting close to sale-able. XNA means you can code once, write 3 interfaces, and release on Xbox, WinPhone 7, and Windows 7. This is just going a few steps furthur down the road.
Xbox+WP7 vs. Mac+iOS+Linux+Android (Score:2)
XNA means you can code once, write 3 interfaces, and release on Xbox, WinPhone 7, and Windows 7.
But if you drop Xbox 360 and Windows Phone 7, you can code once, write several interfaces, and release on Windows, GNU/Linux, Android, Mac OS X, iOS, and (if you're a big company) PS3 and Wii. So a developer has to choose between Xbox 360 and Windows Phone 7 on one hand and Linux, Android, Mac, and iOS on the other hand. As I understand it, the only big win of XNA is if a company too small for the PS3 or Wii developer program wants to make a console-style game because Xbox 360 is the only console open to sm
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Re:Xbox too? (Score:4, Interesting)
Possibly stupid question: where's the video that leaked? I can't find it on that site or the one it links to as a source. Anyone know? /Could be my noscript causing problems
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The 360 didn't "overheat", its internal peak temperature was never an issue. The problem was the motherboard warping through the process of heating and cooling. Adding extra cooling wouldn't fix the issue, merely delay it.
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Ironically this considering it had an external power brick to help dissipate heat.
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My daughter works at a GameStop, and she wouldn't touch an Xbox just because of how many of them come back with the same problems.
I think you just got lucky. I had a Chevy Vega that lasted years with no problems, too. Just because my Vega was a good one doesn't mean that 75% of what came from the assembly line wasn't crap.
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That's because you weren't paying attention. The number of consoles affected has been estimated at between 23% and 54% [wikipedia.org]. In other news, anecdotes aren't data.
You seem to think that you're somehow smarter than most people. A general rule of thumb is that anyone who believes themselves to be an expert probably isn't; people who are smarter and know more realize how much more there is to know. For a more elegant statement, refer to Socrates [wikiquote.org]. For a more scientific statement, see here. [wikipedia.org]
Re:No Comments (Score:5, Informative)
Not to be a dick, but your argument comes about half a decade late. Microsoft really did everything right in terms of security since XP. They minimized the damage that the biggest issue, user, can cause to the system, hardened the system itself significantly, slapped a properly functional firewall into a default installation and so on.
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What ? Windows NT has had filesystem permissions since 1993. Consumer Windows has had it since XP in 2001.
Same apps on smaller screen does not work. (Score:5, Funny)
"While Win 8 apps won't be directly compatible with Windows Phone 8, Windows Phone manager Joe Belfiore says developers will be able to 'reuse — by far — most of their code."
Good. I'll only need 8 handsets to display the ribbon in MS Office.
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The point is that you rewrite the UI per platform, but the core business logic is "write once".
Bizarro World (Score:5, Insightful)
I predict a world where Microsoft has the best mobile platform but can't break the stranglehold of Apple and Google.
Re:Bizarro World (Score:4, Funny)
I predict a world where Microsoft has the best mobile platform but can't break the stranglehold of Apple and Google.
I highlighted the part that shows what a wild imagination you have.
Re:Bizarro World (Score:5, Insightful)
You can say wild but companies learn from their mistakes. Look at how they've done with XBOX and Kinect. As a PS3 owner I can tell you that they leveled Sony.
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Look at how they've done with XBOX and Kinect.
And Zune and Tablet PCs.... oh, wait...
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I have yet to see Kinect as an important gaming feature. As the Sony propaganda says so well, buttons are really useful even with motion controls.
Also I'm still waiting for a AAA 360 title that actually runs at any level of HD internally. These 540p upconverts are blurry blocky messes. I like my PS3 exclusive 720p and 1080p games.
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It's kind of amusing, Sony could be seen as "Team Blu" while Microsoft is clearly Team Green. And then think back to a time when Intel (who mostly use blue colour schemes) and AMD (Green-Green-Green...At least in the CPU world) had an almost identical conflict - Team blue were the big lugs who couldn't be stopped, at least until they shot themselves in the foot (Prescott - hot, expensive and limited scope for improvement), meanwhile Team Green brought out some great tech that was just solid - cheaper, faste
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The first DVD had approximately 12 things that I had to skip or FFwd past (when skip was blocked). The second had one block of trailers that was banished in a few seconds by FFwding at 100x speed.
Guess which company's DVD rubbed me the wrong way.
For those who think I am exaggerating the annoyance of a Sony DVD, each trailer requires its own skip (FFwd wo
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I predict a world where Microsoft has the best mobile platform but can't break the stranglehold of Apple and Google.
I highlighted the part that shows what a wild imagination you have.
Why is it "wild"?
Apple has proven its superiority over everyone - at this time. Tech is extremely volatile. Any dislike for any company and their business practices is very ... short sighted.
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Methinks he's referring to your implication that Microsoft having the "best" mobile platform is laughable, at best. Sort of like saying RIM has the best management team, bar-none.
Re:Bizarro World (Score:4, Insightful)
We're almost there already. Win Phone 7 is a bit short on apps perhaps, but already has many features the other two don't (and yes, there are some features the others have that WinPhone 7 doesn't).
There's still plenty of room for improvement in Windows Phone, but it's been improving rapidly already. I've owned one for about 6 months now I think (since the HTC Arrive came out on Sprint, whenever that was). It's been more stable than the "feature phones" I've owned, with the exception of my original Nokia 6185 in the '90s. If this keeps up, with Google's "Screw Security and Privacy" attitude, and Apple's "You can have it our way or you can't have it at all" "we know what hardware you want" attitude, I think Microsoft may even be able to break the stranglehold, with proper execution.
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In WP7 Microsoft is trying to copy Apples "we know what hardware you want" slogan actually. Qualcomm single core chips only. No SD cards. No USB. No front camera. Only stuff that MS approves of. Its limitations are even presented as features. You don't need xyz (sounds familiar?). Maybe this is changing in WP8, though I wouldn't have my hopes up.
Re:Bizarro World (Score:4, Informative)
Windows Phones come in a variety of form factors at a variety of price points determined by the manufacturers. True the hardware variety is not as wide as Android, but that has also allowed Windows Phone to avoid many of the problems associated with keeping the ecosystem up to date; every single windows phone past and present is updatable to the latest release. Can't say the same for Android even over a year after 2.3 was released.
Currently hardware varies by CPU speed, screen tech, memory, storage size, materials, colors, sliding keyboard, camera specs, and software features. And yes there are phones with front facing cameras. Again, this is more variety than you'll find in Apple's lineup (3 storage choices, 2 colors, everything else is the same), and less than you'll find in Android's lineup.
What this leak is saying is that in the future phones will have different resolution, cores, form factors (blackberry-like), upgradable storage, etc.
Re:Bizarro World (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't count out Microsoft. They broke Sony's stranglehold at the height of the PS2.
Re:Bizarro World (Score:4, Informative)
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If anyone broke anyone, it was Nintendo putting a size 6 Japanese boot in both Microsoft and Sony's ass.... at the same time.
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That makes absolutely no sense. Nintendo was and is the leader that Sony and XBox have been eating away at.
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Really? You mean the N64 and Gamecube weren't massive failures?
"In September 2009, IGN named the GameCube the 16th best gaming console of all time, behind all three of its competitors: the PlayStation 2 (3rd), Dreamcast (8th), and Xbox (11th). Aside from the Virtual Boy (which did not make the list at all), it was the only Nintendo console to not make the list's top 10."
Nintendo managed to sell about 30 million N64s but that's fewer than the PS3 has sold, so no, Nintendo was NOT the leader when the Wii cam
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Umm, no offense, but the PS2 has sold 153.19 million units as of March 31, 2011. The 360 has only sold 65.8 million as of January 19, 2012. And yes, I know what I'm comparing -- the PS2 has been out much longer, but Sony still has the majority of installed devices out there. Don't forget there's also 55.5 million Playstation 3s out there, as of September 30, 2011.
Unlike Microsoft, Sony is still actively selling both consoles.
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I predict a world where Microsoft has the best mobile platform but can't break the stranglehold of Apple and Google.
They may not want to break Apple or Google's stranglehold...on the non-corporate user. But RIM is on the ropes, and is thought to be soon for sale. Many IT departments have only grudgingly accepted Apple and Android phones onto their networks. It seems like Nokia / Microsoft / RIM's network and customers might be a formula for success in the corporate world.
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WP7 was originally consumer-centric when first released, but it's now ramping up on "enterprisey" stuff (and specifically with respect to integrating into MS intranet ecosystem) - it just goes slowly, feature by feature: 7.5 has got support for DRM'd Exchange emails, now there's a Lync client, and encryption is coming in vNext.
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Then you should beware of all of the Android malware coming out also infecting your Linux boxes...
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Show me one (any) incidence of this occuring.
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That's my whole point. Just because they share a part of a kernel doesn't automatically make one vulnerable to every piece of malware on the other.
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Native Android apps actually still run within the JVM. Scripts are run as the user created dynamically to match the developer of the app.
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Android has had NDK (Native Development Kit) for ages. Any Android app can include a bunch of .so with native code and use them willy nilly. That doesn't run in Dalvik VM.
It still has a sandbox in form of OS permissions, of course. But then, so do Metro apps in Win8, and presumably native apps in WP8.
Re:Bizarro World (Score:4, Informative)
Just like all that Android malware is also taking over Linux desktops, right?
When Linux distributors switch desktops (Score:2)
Plus, I don't want to have to learn a new interface every time MS upgrades its OS.
Until your Linux distributor replaces familiar GNOME with the mystery-meat navigation [tinyurl.com] that is Unity. But you're right that Linux distributions at least offer the option to, for example, sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop.
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mcgrew, hate to bust your bubble but -
from what you've posted over the past couple of years here, it's pretty clear that you aren't in anyone's purchasing demographic.
Tech is no place for old men.
Nurse! My pills!
Windows 7 Phone apps (Score:3)
Will they be able to reuse their Windows 7 Phone code, or was that a dead end?
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From the reports it is not clear how the current apps will be supported except that they will work. It is reasonable to assume that developers will be able to change and redeploy the code but it is not known if the APIs will be unified and if new APIs will be usable in the old apps. Of course any .NET code that the is pure logic will work everywhere. The XAML code is tricky because it depends on the sets of controls that they will choose to make available
Re:Windows 7 Phone apps (Score:4, Interesting)
its not that clear if they will be fully supported however.
From Herb Sutter's recent "Why C++" [msdn.com] presentation (here's a transcript [alejandrosegovia.net]), he mentions that mobile development moves towards native... with the implication that native mobile code will be much more predominant with Windows and phone 8.
I should imagine there will be native (winRT) APIs but not sure if they will create wrappers for the old .NET phone APIs. Certainly Silverlight is no longer even listed under the technologies available for mobile development! I think you'll be ok to redevelop apps for windows phone 8, but they won't work without a little modification.
So much for backward compatibility, huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
Or forward. Or sideways. WP8 won't be binary compatible with WinCE-based WP7 (which itself wasn't compatible with WinCE-based WM6), nor with desktop Windows 8, nor with, apparently, any other OS that's ever existed. Sure hope they make it real easy for developers to build their existing code for WP8.
Oh, and it'll also be real interesting to see whether any WP7 devices can be upgraded to WP8.
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Re:So much for backward compatibility, huh? (Score:4, Informative)
>Or forward. Or sideways. WP8 won't be binary compatible with WinCE-based WP7 (which itself wasn't compatible with WinCE-based WM6), nor with desktop Windows 8, nor with, apparently, any other OS that's ever existed. Sure hope they make it real easy for developers to build their existing code for WP8.
WP7 apps will run on WP8.
http://wmpoweruser.com/brandon-watson-squashes-rumours-that-windows-phone-7-apps-will-be-incompatible-with-windows-phone-8/ [wmpoweruser.com]
Different kernel doesn't mean jack (Score:2)
That appears to have been a response to "rumors" that WP8 would use a different kernel than WP7.
So what? I run the same apps, native compiled apps at that, on an OS with an NT kernel (Windows) and an OS with a Linux kernel (Xubuntu). The apps run in the Win32 subsystem under Windows or in the Wine subsystem (sudo apt-get install wine) under Xubuntu. Likewise, during the early Windows XP era, the same apps ran under both NT and Windows 9x.
Computer in a phone (Score:3, Interesting)
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They always have. OS vendors have been happily not delivering that. Microsoft won't go much farther, what with the lock down they're demanding on these devices (well, all devices with Windows 8.)
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I haven't really seen Windows 8 yet, but, this could potentially be a really awesome direction. I don't much like Windows personally, but I have always wished phones, tablets in particular had the flexibility of a general purpose computer. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping Microsoft let's this happen.
Windows 8 x86 tablets will have that.
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I haven't really seen Windows 8 yet, but, this could potentially be a really awesome direction. I don't much like Windows personally, but I have always wished phones, tablets in particular had the flexibility of a general purpose computer. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping Microsoft let's this happen.
May I introduce you to the ASUS slate - EP121 my good sir? I'm currently posting with one of those.
Pretty awesome tablet with Win8 (if you don't mind 3.5 hour batteries, no access to the phone network, no GPS and low-end graphic card). There is also some annoying bug with Win8 Dev but those should be resolved soon. I recommend the video "ASUS EP121 Eee Slate Windows 7 Tablet PC - Part One - iPad Comparisons" on youtube if you're interested.
Windows Phone will become the best (Score:3, Insightful)
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major problem they will have is getting developers to make apps for it.
They in fact do not have this problem. The windows phone marketplace is growing at a faster rate than the android store at the same point in its lifecycle. Today they have 60,000 apps after only 16 months. Yes Android and iOS stores have an order of magnitude more, but at some point (much before half a million apps I'd say) there are diminishing returns associated with the number of apps in a store.
Why? (Re:Windows Phone will become the best) (Score:4, Insightful)
I never understood the desire to unify desktop and other things (XBox) on a phone let alone why is it valuable. There is value in creating apps that interface with other systems but one is overstating the value of a whole phone dedicated to interfacing this way when it turns out people would rather have other features (mobile location services, e-readers, etc).
Another way to think about not: Are people chomping at the bit who support Android and iPhone to get or sharing accessing to their home machines? These platforms aren't popular because of this nor do I see that changing in two years. If you can answer "Why do you think that is valuable?" then I can begin to see your stance otherwise I suspect that such features are "gee-whiz" but not necessary or the best use of the mobile phone platform.
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Lock-in. Inability to transfer outside the Microsoft domain due to how much is tied up in their platforms.
Perhaps the better question is "Why not?" (Score:3)
If we look at the progression of these devices, from the IBM PC/Mac, to laptop computers to the current phone devices, the obvious trajectory is smaller, lighter, less power hungry and ever more powerful.
Eventually we'll surely have a credit card sized AMOLED display with built-in personal computer. We'll carry one or more (personal and business machines) around in our wallets (which will have speakers and microphones so we can answer our wallets). But we'll also be able to pair our credit card computers
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> Windows Phone, will soon be considered the best mobile
> platform, due to it's unification with the desktop, and XBOX.
> Unfortunately, it won't mean much because people will still
> want shiny iPhones and will clamor to the numerous free
> Android phones that they can get.
Or maybe the reason it won't mean much because most people do not give a shit about integrating with their desktop and/or their XBox? What I want out of a mobile device is a really great experience when I'm out and about.* Yo
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What I want out of a mobile device is a really great experience when I'm out and about.*
True, that's a good goal to have for a mobile device, but you're not always out and about. In fact sometimes you're at home and there are data and apps on your home computer you might like to access. When we talk about integrating, we're talking about using and app on the desktop, then getting up and leaving and having the same app/data on your mobile phone. Edit your data on the phone then come back to your PC and it's all there.
Could you imagine being on a call, walking in your front door, then transfe
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Microsoft tying all of their properties together would probably be an awesome way to see them back in court, but probably not (can't be seen attacking a "Job Creator"). Of course, if they were all broken up into separate companies we might see some sort of cross platform way of doing this instead of it all being tied into one company that will probably patent the shit out of it and sue anyone who tries to enable such compatibility.
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"Mark my words, and I can't believe I'm even saying this, but Windows Phone, will soon be considered the best mobile platform, due to it's unification with the desktop, and XBOX."
So Windows 8 Phones will have an integrated keyboard, mouse and Xbox controller?
Rewriting the input layer (Score:2)
Windows Phone devices might have slide-out keyboards, just has Xbox 360 controller have snap-on chatpads.
As for the differences among a touch screen, a mouse, and an Xbox 360 controller, that's for the input layer of a game to decide. If porting a game means rewriting the input layer and dialing down the detail level, you may have just cut out 90 percent of the effort.
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And assholes will be considered superior to the pussy since it unifies gay and heterosexual intercourse :)
In more seriousness I suspect the unification is way too early, and doesn't look all that advantages yet. I don't want Autocad and MS office on my phone. I want a mobile dwg app and a mobile office suite. Completely different UI paradigms to be done well. A familiar brand and color and color scheme (like Autocad mobile) would help, but no complete necessity. Halo will also need a serious rewrite to even
Free Upgrade? (Score:2)
I guess the name, as silly as it is, makes sense now. Windows Phone is only on phones (as opposed tablets) and gets FREE upgrades. Windows 8 does not.
Re:Free Upgrade? Not for kernel changes (Score:2)
Unlike Apple, Windows doesn't really have a history of charging for anything but the largest OS updates. Windows Phone 7 to 7.5 was a free update, even though they were a full year apart.
Yeah, but I don't believe they've ever changed to an entirely new kernel before for free. What do you think they are, an open source company or something?
Sell you a new phone and a new 2-year contract (Score:2)
there's no precedent in the cell phone market for ever charging for OS updates
Yeah, they just sell you a new phone and a new 2-year contract instead. The iPhone and any Nexus brand Android phone are the main exceptions to the trend of abandonment of old Android devices by their manufacturers [slashdot.org].
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You were probably referring to desktops, but mobile is a different beast.
Explains why no native SDK (Score:4, Interesting)
I'll bet this was in the roadmap for some time, and helps to explain why they do not offer a native SDK currently.
I think this is great for their phone platform as the Windows 8 kernel is likely to be far more robust in the areas of thread scheduling and memory management. Given that Windows 8 demonstrably can execute even in 128MB RAM (http://windows8beta.com/2011/10/windows-8-runs-on-64mb-and-128-mb-ram), the resource impact probably isn't an issue.
compatibility for viruses? (Score:2, Insightful)
So, viruses for Windows 8 will be also portable to WP8? :)
Finally (Score:2)
It took a while but maybe MS has pulled their head from their asses. If not it might at least be a glass belly button so they can see where they're going.
Windows 8, C#, .NET (Score:5, Interesting)
Windows Phone 7 is C# only, which is why I don't support the platform with my games (99% of my C++ code is shared between the iOS and Android builds, which is how it should be). So if Windows 8 developers can "reuse — by far — most of their code" does that mean Windows 8 is C# only too, or that Windows Phone 8 will allow 3rd part apps to be written in C++?
IMO, if Windows Phone 8 doesn't support C++, it is dead in the water from the perspective of 3rd party apps. Only the really big players have the resources to completely rewrite their iOS or Android apps (mainly games, which usually aren't intimately tied to the native GUI) in C#. That is one of the reasons there aren't many apps for Windows Mobile 7, and certainly why there isn't as much commonality as you see between iOS and Android apps. If MS had half a brain they would allow development in C++, and include APIs like OpenGL ES which is supported by both Android and iOS, which will make it very easy for developers like me to release my games for Windows Mobile 8.
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Do bug fixes propagate? (Score:2)
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Wouldn't surprise me - I can't remember where I saw it now but I'm certain I've seen evidence that Microsoft seem convinced that "Multi-platform" means "Works on XP and Vista".
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8 supports c++
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You write two apps.
I'm not two people.
If you don't want to be in the Windows marketplace, don't write an app for it.
When it's a choice of either Android or the Windows marketplace and not both, a lot of developers are choosing Android for its larger installed base.
Leaked video? (Score:2)
Was this video "leaked" in the same way the first Nokia Windows phone was "leaked"? Meaning...
1) Call a press conference
2) Wait for media to assemble
3) Halfway through, say "everyone turn off your cameras (wink wink) because we really don't want this next part to get out... (nudge nudge)"
4) Hope like h*ll at least one reporter was too stupid to notice the play
Re:code reuse shares vulnerabilities (Score:5, Insightful)
Does that mean anyone who hacks a Linux desktop gets their Android phone too? If anyone that hacks a FreeBSD box also gets Mac OS X boxes too?
Re:code reuse shares vulnerabilities (Score:4, Informative)
At least, for some values of "hacks" and some values of "gets their phone".
Here [github.com], for example, how to get root on Android using generic Linux kernel vulnerability.
Re:code reuse shares vulnerabilities (Score:5, Insightful)
Only if the hack involves something deep within the Kernel - which in terms of hacks, is generally pretty rare. Most hacks come from privilege escalation, usually because of some shoddily written plugin (i.e. just about anything Adobe makes). I very much doubt that Microsoft will offer WP8 users the same level of...freedom that Windows users get. Hell, you'll be lucky to even sideload apps.
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Note that the Atrix by Motorola (running Android) has an optional full screen dock and keyboard to use the phone as a notebook instead.
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Could this finally be the realization of the long held dream of write-once, run-anywhere malware?
You mean Java?
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Model-view abstraction (Score:2)
Each should have applications thought out, from the ground up, for their respective platforms.
You, like many other people who have posted comments to Slashdot, appear to have forgotten about the model-view abstraction. There are two parts of a program: the part that manipulates data (the model) and the part that presents the data to the user (the view). If you can share 100% of the model and half of the view code across platforms, you're way ahead. For example, the Firefox web browser has one HTML/CSS/JavaScript model and several rendering front-ends, one for each platform. But this is possible onl