Intel Plans Windows 8 Phones 101
Barence writes "Intel boss Paul Otellini says his company plans to offer Windows 8 on smartphones — putting the chipmaker on a collision course with Microsoft. Speaking during Intel's earnings call, Otellini said Microsoft's decision to port Windows to system-on-a-chip platforms had advantages for his company. 'We have the ability to put our lowest-power Intel processors running Windows 8 – or "next-generation Windows" – into phones, because it's the same OS stack.' That would appear to run contrary to Microsoft's plans for its OSes. Speaking at CES last week, Windows chief Steven Sinofsky said Windows Phone 7 was 'uniquely focused on small form factor' while Windows was designed for tablets and above."
Re: (Score:1)
Those commercials say that if your battery lasts for 4 hours, you should call your doctor.
Re: (Score:2)
And the battery last only 4 hours on standby, tops.
And that was exactly my thought unless the phones are a return to the bricks of the 80s!
Re: (Score:2)
And the battery last only 4 hours on standby, tops.
Well at least a phone with a dead battery stops eating up the monthly bandwidth quota
Re: (Score:2)
Honestly I find this more interesting than the article.
But I'm in the same boat, this conservation society my girlfriend works at is paying some guy to update their website twice a year and he is charging big bucks and they want to do more update but don't want to spend all the money that comes with that, so they'd like to bring it under their control.
How much you want for it depends on what exactly they want and how much of it they expect you to do. Does your company own the code or is that copyrighted mat
Re: (Score:1)
Amusing Summary (Score:4, Funny)
I don't know why exactly, but the way this summary is worded just makes me chuckle. Especially that first line.
Intel boss Paul Otellini says his company plans to offer Windows 8 on smartphones — putting the chipmaker on a collision course with Microsoft.
It makes it sound like he has decided to do this without consulting Microsoft at all. It's like
Intel: HEY. We're gonna put Windows 8 on our smartphones, kk?
Microsoft: Actually we skipped 8 we're going straight to Windows 9.
Intel: Hmmm. Well are you still going to -
Microsoft: No.
Intel: But can we -
Microsoft: NO
Intel: We just want to -
Microsoft: Look, just leave us alone, okay?
Re: (Score:2)
if they buy a retail license on a store, and the mobile phone have all the hardware needed (right kind of CPU, storage, a working BIOS/EFI, etc.) there's nothing microsoft can do to stop them.
unless microsoft puts some very specific wording on the EULA to veto it. problem is, if they do it, they expose themselves to (more) anti-trust investigations.
Re: (Score:1)
Microsoft still holds the copyrights to its software and therefore the distribution rights, so no, Intel can't just buy it retail and sell it in a manner that Microsoft disapproves of. Besides, it would be financially unworkable for Intel to have to buy retail licenses to sell these hypothetical Windows 8 phones. If Microsoft isn't on board it can block Intel legally and very definitively on copyright grounds. Besides that, check out the ruling in Omega v. Costco. IANAL.
Re: (Score:2)
intel can:
1) buy a retail license;
2) use to test and debug the hardware;
3) once it's ready, ship ip with a very basic linux;
4) advertise heavilly the hardware is "windos ready";
5) let the users buy windows retail and install on their own.
Re:It's Like (Score:2)
With homage to you, I submit:
Intel: Hiya!. We're gonna put Windows 8 on our smartphones, Okay?
Microsoft: No, we only allow Windows Phone to go on Phones.
Intel: Hmmm. But since Motorola showed we can run an entire workstation on a phone, let's use the workstation OS!
Microsoft: No.
Intel: But Windows Phone won't work on a workstation. It's still WinTel!
Microsoft: NO
Intel: Look, we're sorry that Windows Phone is once again obsolete the minute it came out, but we can do this!
Microsoft: Check Line 4. That's Couns
Re: (Score:2)
Picture this with Lucy Lu from Charlie's Angels doing the No thing to guys asking her out.
Re: (Score:2)
Hm... (Score:2)
This news is greeted with the loud sound of... (Score:2)
Typo in title... (Score:3, Funny)
I haven't read the article, let alone the summary, but surely it should say "Intel plans 8 Windows phones". That should be enough. One for Ballmer, one for Gates and six handsets for changing the dud ones while under warranty...
Android on x86 (Score:2)
Seems to me it would make more sense for Intel to pursue supporting the port of Android to x86 hardware.
http://www.android-x86.org/ [android-x86.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Oops, sorry. Looks like they are already pursuing this.
http://www.androidguys.com/2010/06/24/intel-android-x86-netbooks-tablets-summer/ [androidguys.com]
Re: (Score:2)
They also have MeeGo / I wonder how it will fit with this announcement.
Re: (Score:2)
"The plus for Intel is that as they unify their operating systems, we now have the ability for the first time... to have a designed-from-scratch, touch-enabled operating system for tablets that runs on Intel that we don't have today," the Intel CEO said.
It is also a pity no one at Intel has head of http://meego.com/ [meego.com] (sarcasm intended).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Very little is truly "designed-from-scratch" today. Android has a Linux kernel as it's base OS, iOS has BSD Unix as it's base OS.
Makes Sense (Score:5, Informative)
Windows in various forms runs on the Xbox and the Xbox 360, so it can clearly be stripped down to the point where it is reliable enough for an "appliance"-type device. (Microsoft's hardware problems with both platforms notwithstanding... that's a whole separate argument.) Windows CE is a pathetic POS and basically just a reinvention of Windows from an apparently totally retarded standpoint anyway. Handhelds are becoming more powerful and Android proves the point (OK, the N900 proved the point and Android really just hammers it home) that a "desktop" operating system can run on a handheld. And if Android and MeeGo weren't enough evidence, there's always iOS, which is just OSX with some stuff taken out, some stuff renamed, and some minor stuff added in. Most of what people think of as an iOS feature is right there in OSX, lurking, waiting to be turned on. Most of what we think of as a desktop feature of Windows is just a service waiting to be turned off, or part of the ever-more-baroque Windows Explorer.
Re: (Score:1)
>>>Windows in various forms runs on the Xbox and the Xbox 360
I didn't realize Windows could operate on a PowerPC-based system (X360)? I thought Microsoft abandoned that cpu sometime around windows 4.x (96).
Re: (Score:2)
I didn't realize Windows could operate on a PowerPC-based system (X360)? I thought Microsoft abandoned that cpu sometime around windows 4.x (96).
They abandoned it for desktop systems (was it PREP or CHRP that they supported? I forget) but they didn't throw anything away internally. Different sources inside Microsoft have variously stated that each Xbox runs or does not run a Windows variant, but it's pretty obvious that both run Windows if you take a look at their software and by the fact that you can write one game codebase to run on both platforms and the APIs you're using are all hosted on Windows. The "scoop" per windowsfordevices [windowsfordevices.com] is that Xbox 3
Re: (Score:2)
Check out XNA.
Re: (Score:2)
It's the NT kernel, supposedly. And it's not like they'd have a hard time porting it, they have the source. Besides, porting to a CPU that isn't a 486-derivative would be fresh in their minds after Windows XP 64 got kicked to the curb.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
there's always iOS, which is just OSX with some stuff taken out, some stuff renamed, and some minor stuff added in.
So it's basically the same except that it's different.
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly, except not really.
Re: (Score:2)
Things that iOS has that OS X doesn't have:
Re: (Score:2)
Android uses a Linux kernel, but everything on top of that is completely different from desktop Linux systems (even the libc is different). iOS uses a Darwin kernel and shares some frameworks with OS X, but important parts like UIKit are very different. MeeGo uses Linux + Qt and is the closest of the three to its desktop equivalent, but even there the window management and the apps are different from the desktop.
It might make sense to use the Windows kernel on a phone, but not the high level UI or existing
Re: (Score:2)
If you only have to write a new GUI (like if you used Android and the NDK) then you get a lot more code reuse than if you have to write to all-new (or at least -different) APIs.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure I like your analogy to the X-box because generally that is playing on an enormous screen and the controller acts like a crippled XY mouse (scaling up isn't anything like scaling down).
The point was more that Windows can succeed without its usual interface. Indeed, I would argue that it is more likely to be successful any time they can manage to throw away that interface.
Personally I'd rather they just say that they are focusing on the server/cloud side of the equation rather (which I don't think is such a bad business strategy as all those mobile devices need a cloud to serve them) than come up with bizarre and unworkable scenarios where Win8 magically works on a 3 inch screen.
You mean like scenarios where Linux, which was originally distributed without a GUI, magically works on a 3 inch screen?
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft themselves claim the Xbox OS is a custom OS built from the ground up that uses a subset of Windows API's
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/xboxteam/archive/2006/02/17/534421.aspx [msdn.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft themselves claim the Xbox OS is a custom OS built from the ground up that uses a subset of Windows API's
Microsoft says a lot of things, and many of them are lies [windowsfordevices.com]. Maybe you should do a little more research next time. You need to look for links that refute your argument, not just ones that support it. That's called due diligence.
If you don't stop I will promote your core product (Score:3)
Despite the summary this doesn't sound very Machiavellian. One could almost imagine Microsoft liking the thought of having their core product used on the next billion devices without having to make any investment themselves.
Core vs. Future (Score:2)
One could almost imagine Microsoft liking the thought of having their core product used on the next billion devices
If it were a billion devices, sure.
But it's not. We already know from Windows Mobile how shrunken Windows fares against more modern mobile operating systems. Microsoft knows this too, which is why they actually did the right thing for once and started from scratch with Windows Phone 7.
So all this Intel announcement does, is make people wonder if Windows Phone 7 is a dead end. Microsoft aided
Re: (Score:2)
Well, since WP7 essentially runs everything in ".net light", I can see how a transition to Windows 8 kernel could be practically invisible (with "what for?" left)
Wrong UI metaphors (Score:3)
Part of the massive failure of Windows Mobile is that it tried to be Windows scaled down to 3" screens. Small devices need customized OSs, a square peg with the corners shaved off to fit into a round hole.
Re: (Score:3)
Part of the massive failure of Windows Mobile is that it tried to be Windows scaled down to 3" screens. Small devices need customized OSs, a square peg with the corners shaved off to fit into a round hole.
Windows 8 - just think of this possibilities!
Trouble getting that square peg in? Maybe it just needs a little interface change.
Instead of a stylus, maybe a tiny hammer...
Windows 8 possibilities... (Score:2)
Will it have WinFS?
Re: (Score:2)
Will it have WinFS?
No.. Fat16
Re: (Score:3)
No. Small devices need custom applications and window managers. The OSs can be stripped down versions of the desktop OSs, or something totally different.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Part of the problem with Microsoft is they dont realize this and think "Windows Mobile was just not Windows Like enough".
I am an iPhone user, and i love my iDevices. Predictably I dislike Android devices (and I have tried them, I just dont like them personally.) I was always thinking Windows Phone 7 was going to be an even bigger disapointment (to me.) Can you imagine my shock when I tested an HTC HD7 at TMobile and almost told the guy to pack the thing and sign me up for two years. Windows Phone 7 is not
Re: (Score:2)
So after praising user experience of WP7 you express suspicion how changing the core / kernel to "Windows proper" will that? Huh?
Re: (Score:2)
Not sure if you missed a word there at the end, did you mean:
you express suspicion how changing the core /kernel to "Windows proper" will [change] that?
If so, simple: If I buy a Windows Phone 7 now, I will likely start buying apps. Some I'll love, some I'll depend on, and some I'll use often. Not to mention games. It is very likely, should they change the entire core of the OS, that all these applications will stop working in a completely different core, even if they tried to keep the looks similar.
So the fear is that such a change would treat Windows Phone 7 users as if they just adopted an en
Re: (Score:2)
Winmob7 uses ".Net light" for apps, changing the underlying OS can easily make no difference / be quite invisible to the user.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So what? Clear possibility is there / you yourself said they have a great UI experience now (they know it / it was unraveling for some time / not a fluke), why they would throw it away?
Can you guarantee next versions of any OS will run apps from older ones?
Re: (Score:2)
So what? Clear possibility is there / you yourself said they have a great UI experience now (they know it / it was unraveling for some time / not a fluke), why they would throw it away?
Same reason they think they have to change the core of an OS that is working perfectly fine. Because Microsoft's current management does not get it. I would not be shocked if the next XBox is also made to have a Windows Desktop, complete with Start Menu.
Also, if Microsoft actually acknowledged this WP7's UI virtues, they would be pushing a new branch of THAT OS for tablets, not stupid Windows 7. They can say a lot to the public, but actions speak louder, and they don't seem to feel strong enough about the
Re: (Score:2)
WinCE was supposedly a bit of a kludge, perhaps still is; that could be a reason for a switch to NT, once hardware is up to it.
There are no indications Xbox will switch to desktop UI; they push it on tablets precisely because of (misplaced, in this case) how they value backwards compatibility. Whatever one can say about MS, they do that rather well on average. And now they know perfectly well what should be the UI of a phone.
Maintaining compatibility with first version of iOS isn't much of an accomplishment
Re: (Score:2)
Overall, I don't understand what's the problem. Worse case - you'd have have to switch platforms again / you're willing to abandon bought apps anyway. Seems a bit like "concerned FUD", actually.
The problem is there are some things you should shut up about if you have not a planned and ready marketing plan to disclose that information. Ballmer's statement has many Windows Phone advocates worried [winsupersite.com], this concern is very well justified.
Re: (Score:2)
Hey, not everybody can have RDF (however entertaining Ballmer can be); it's not much different from any new / small / starting platform... and in fact most likely somewhat on the safer side, coming from MS; mostly unjustified hysteria among pundits (may I remind you: the same who are typically not very aware that outside their view there's another mobile OS, one which is dominating; or how most striking growth happens in so called "feature phone" touchscreen devices) is not a new ting OTOH
Re: (Score:2)
sorry that should be "...NOT a square peg..."
Re: (Score:2)
Not enough RAM? (Score:1)
Will these smartphones have enough RAM (2-3 gig) to run Windows 8?
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Probably. The current Cortex A9 boards using things like the OMAP4430 ship with 1GB of RAM, in a package-on-package configuration (i.e. the RAM chips sits on top of the CPU, no motherboard traces required). This is limited by the size of MobileDDR chips, and the CPUs support up to 4GB. About a year ago, similar systems were shipping with 256MB, with 512MB just starting to become available. Windows 8 is due out in 2012, so 2GB MobileDDR PoPs should definitely be available by then, and 4GB may be, dependi
7 != 8 (Score:2)
Sinofsky was talking about Windows 7, Otellini is talking about Windows 8.
Ballmer said at CES that Windows 8 will expand the platform and include lower-powered devices. E.g. do a search of recent news regarding the plans for Windows 8 to run on ARM.
Collision course? Really?
Re: (Score:2)
The summary is crap, because Balmer stated he wants to see Windows 8 running on all devices, not other operative systems with similar names, but core Win8 ported.
There is a collision, but it's not between Intel and MS, it's just Balmer vs Windows Phone 7. The platform just came out and he openly stated that he is going to kill it regardless of success or failure.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The issue lies in application compatibility. Buy a Windows Phone 7 now, spend hundreds of dollars in apps and games, and be rendered unable to use those in a Windows 8 Phone because it is not compatible.
Also note, iOS and OSX have similar origins, but they are two different branches. The differences are so large, that saying iOS and OSX are the same is on the lines of saying Unix and OSX are the same.
Re: (Score:2)
Expect the branches to converge, as users demand to run the favourite iOS app on their OS X desktop.
Isn't iOS more or less the Cocoa API cleaned up, slimmed down, with absolete cruft removed and touch support added? If so, expect OS X to evolve closer to iOS every day. The long term idea will be to write desktop applications with a iOS/OSX hybrid toolkit. i.e. once windowing, menus and other desktop specifics have been added back in. All through XCode. All through one unified App Store.
Nokia have this idea
Re: (Score:2)
The issue lies in application compatibility. Buy a Windows Phone 7 now, spend hundreds of dollars in apps and games, and be rendered unable to use those in a Windows 8 Phone because it is not compatible.
Given that WP7 applications are required to be written in .NET, and to use high-level APIs - namely Silverlight and XNA - which are both available on desktop Windows today - it is extremely hard to come up with any reason why they wouldn't be compatible.
Heck, you could probably swap WP7 kernel with Linux and Mono/Moonlight, and with a few tweaks you'd have most apps running just as well.
Also note, iOS and OSX have similar origins, but they are two different branches.
The UI layer is different, but is kernel?
on the lines of saying Unix and OSX are the same.
I'm not sure what you meant to say, to be honest, but OS X is officially certifie
Re: (Score:1)
iOS and Mac OS X are much more similar to each other than base Unix is to OS X. iOS is OS X in most all respects. iOS's hardware support and services are paired down to run on a very small number of static hardware devices (i.e. devices that don't have any hardware upgrade potential), and its user interface elements are quite different. It runs on the ARM processor family where Mac OS X doesn't (at least not publicly). It has some additional components and APIs for mobile uses that Macs don't need.
But aside
Re: (Score:2)
Have you seen nethack android? [google.com]
Malware on your phone. (Score:2)
Smartphone Wars (Score:2)
Eric Raymond presents a noteworthy analysis of the smartphone wars, here [ibiblio.org], in which he predicts Microsoft will fail in that market. Proceeding from the observation that the wireless broadband market has had negative profitably for the previous ten years:
Collision course?!?!? (Score:2)
... putting the chipmaker on a collision course with Microsoft...
How? Last I heard, Microsoft controlled the licensing of Windows. If Microsoft doesn't want a particular version of Windows on a device, they can revoke licensing for it. And, frankly, Intel would be stupid to ship their products with unlicensed software. They're not that dumb.
Re: (Score:1)
No, it can happen more subtle.
Intel can put some minimalistic windows 8 on a next-gen phone (/tablet), but unless MS creates a cheap oem license for it will be too expensive to compete with a linux like license. For high end $500++ devices it is not a problem. but in the end they want to create a 200$ device as well, where a 70$ oem license will be a too big cut.
Brave (Score:2)
They can make it... but will it sell? (Score:1)
Incompatible with Microsoft's business model (Score:2)
Microsoft's business model depends on a per-unit software licensin
Re: (Score:2)
ZunePhone. Ha. The phone that squirts.
Re: (Score:2)
Funny you should say that. Active Sync was one of the few things I liked about the WinMo 6.5 phone I had for a short while. Switched to Android and like it but now I just move files manually between PC and phone.
Re: (Score:2)