Survey Says Most iPhone Users Love AT&T 490
Hugh Pickens writes "In a report sure to raise eyebrows, CNN Money claims that despite a very vocal group of detractors, the vast majority of iPhone users love AT&T. A survey released this week by Yankee Group reports that 73% of iPhone owners scored their satisfaction with the carrier as an 8, 9, or 10 on a 10-point scale. The results seem surprising, given the pounding AT&T has taken in the media and on the blogosphere about its service-related issues with the iPhone and AT&T's recent iPad-related security glitch. For its part, AT&T says its network really isn't as bad as many people think. 'There's a gap between what people hear about us and what their experience is with us. We think that gap is beginning to close,' says Mark Siegel, an AT&T spokesman. 'It doesn't mean we're perfect; we still have work to do. But that's no surprise to us, because we have a great network.'" Buried in the penultimate paragraph is the somewhat alarming note that "77% of iPhone owners say they'll buy another iPhone, compared to 20% of Android customers who say they'll buy another Android phone."
Obligatory (Score:4, Funny)
Obligatory [youtube.com]
All depends on where you are and what you do (Score:5, Interesting)
Around me, AT&T has nearly (I'd say 85-90%) of the coverage of Verizon, and probably 130-200% more coverage than the next best. When comparing my speed to those on Verizon about a year ago, my data was twice as fast. Then again, I'm not in a major metro area. I doubt we have a lot of iGoobers streaming youtube and pandora on every cell.
I will say that the iPhone appearance of speed in Safari is about twice that of any WinMobile phone I've had, though no faster or slower than the browser on the couple of Blackberries I've seen.
I suspect the satifaction, aside from the Apple factor, has more to do with the particular default setup of the OS than the actual OS efficiency. Android can do a hell of a lot more, but since most (80%? 90%?) of users never change the defaults, most of the people with Android phones are missing out a lot of the potential features. iPhones, otoh, are more of a WYSIWYG experience - if it doesn't exist in the default profile setup, it simply doesn't exist.
Re:All depends on where you are and what you do (Score:4, Informative)
WHERE makes a huge difference. I punted AT&T in NYC due to the maddening frequency of dropped calls. Up in the burbs, I was satisfied with the service, but had to switch when I started spending more time in Manhattan due to a job change. I'm really happy with T-Mobile now, but I suspect that might not be the case if I was out in the boonies.
Re:All depends on where you are and what you do (Score:5, Insightful)
Whenever I'm outside of these areas, AT&T is totally fine. But it's pretty well-known that trying to place a call on Friday afternoon in either NYC of SF is an exercise in futility.
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They cobbled their network together from a bunch of smaller ones. It varies in quality depending on where you are in the country. Any arbitrary user may be in a great area or have no coverage at all. They are the newest carrier in spite of the old name.
San Francisco is a special case. It's a very small city, but it is made up of 11 hills that are hard to cover, it was almost all built in 1906 after the earthquake, most of the city is only 2 stories tall, the infrastructure is ancient, and there is a politic
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
AT&T in my area is the old Cingular which is the old Southwestern Bell. I also live in Texas, which means lots of rural areas. Outside of the major cities, I do seem to get on older Edge networks, and in some cases, some stuff that predate Edge (I get voice only calls), but 3G service is expanding in many of the areas I travel to. I now have 3G coverage along pretty much all of 377 and 281 and 67. Metro doesn't cover most of that area at all, Verizon is spotty, Sprint, ha, HORRIBLE coverage. T-Mobile se
Depends where you live (Score:5, Informative)
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But it will get five bars in most smalls town in Idaho on a tiny two-lane highway.
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And also you are comparing phones of different generations, you are comparing a high-end phone of 6 months ago with a high-end phone of today. Comparing the iPhone 4 to the Droid X would be a fair comparison, but 6 months is a year or so when it comes to mobile devices.
I believe it (Score:4, Interesting)
I write apps for the android, I've compared 5 different models in my office full of engineers. I continue to stick with each iPhone version because I find the android interface and integration with my computers to suck frankly. I do not have reception problems, I've never been bricked.
I keep hoping android will do better, but the carriers are acting like music companies and screwing up the products in ways I find problematic. I'm not basing this on news, but on evidence from personal experience.
Am I in the reality distortion field or are you?
Re:I believe it (Score:5, Interesting)
The added general complexity offered by stock android phones does (arguably) nothing to attract the average user away from the iphone's installed base and headstart, which doesn't attract as many developers, which in turn may not attract as many technical folks unless they really dislike Apple and AT&T.
Anyways, it's not a perfect argument on my part, but it seemed to make sense as I thought about it while reading your post.
It's actually true (Score:4, Insightful)
The vocal minority bitch and moan. The majority of people like the service. It can't be all bad otherwise people would flee. Also, Apple would have nothing to do with a company that its consumers don't support. If Apple is happy then the majority of people are happy.
Makes Sense Complaints Are Augmented (Score:3, Insightful)
How would they know? (Score:5, Insightful)
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A month before I made the switch to AT&T (from a local), I bought an AT&T prepaid and a Verizon prepaid, then tracked the signal strength in the 8-10 counties I frequent, including call quality. There was one county that had pretty much exclusive Verizon coverage, but it's rare I do business there; even then the coverage was less than 30% of the county, though AT&T could have claimed about 5-8% from spillover from neighboring counties. (Now, it's more like 30% V / 20% AT&T since AT&T ha
Phone Companies = Banks (Score:5, Insightful)
I think phone companies are much like banks. They're fine until something happens that causes the user displeasure, and then they become the most evil thing on the face of the earth causing them to change their service to some place else. The new place is fine, or even great, until something bad happens there, and then there are two most evil things on the face of the planet.
I'm with AT&T (and an iPhone). They have good service in my area ( I did ask around first for people's opinions of various phone company's service in my city), they had the phone I wanted (pre-iPhone), the store next to my house where I bought my phones, they give my company a discount, and I've never had any issues with them. Why shouldn't I like them?
Only 20% of Android users will return to Android? (Score:5, Insightful)
Buried in the penultimate paragraph is the somewhat alarming note that "77% of iPhone owners say they'll buy another iPhone, compared to 20% of Android customers who say they'll buy another Android phone."
It's a throw away comment at the end of the story, but I don't believe that 'statistic' for a second.
The only way I can make sense of it, is perhaps the idea that only 20% would buy another Android phone from the same manufacturer. Due to the number of options, the grass always being greener and the effective 'arms race' between Android manufacturers etc that sounds vaguely plausible. But 80% ready to abandon the platform? That has to be nonsense. Apart from anything else, where are they gonna go?
FWIW I have an iPhone, never owned an Android, blah, blah...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
iPhone.
Re:Only 20% of Android users will return to Androi (Score:5, Interesting)
Well.
I have an Android phone - an HTC Legend, running Android 2.1
So - what's it like?
Coverage issues aside (I am on Vodaphone in Australia and cannot get any reception at the desk where I work, it's infuriating. I actually have my number forward to another phone just for that problem), it's ok.
Not fabulous, just ok. As a phone it is average - I previously had a Sony Ericsson K660i which I loved, it was surprisingly capable (I could get GMail and sync my contacts, but not calendar unfortunately) and the battery lasted ages. Great little thing. Keypad starting to wear out after 2 years of light use.
The HTC/Android software feels mostly average. Not brilliant. It feels a bit - well - clunky. I find myself with iPhone envy.
Battery consumption - pretty high - if I actually use the phone, I need to recharge every 1-2 days.
WiFi - reception is not great. In my front room I can use a laptop on wireless, but not the HTC.
The main phone apps could be so much better. When I look someone up, I may want to phone them, or I may want to message them. This takes far, far too many clicks.
The games are great - and I love the app store with a lot of useful things. Bit hard to find actual good ones, but such is life.
Am I satisfied - yes. Am I overjoyed - no. Am I looking forward to 2.2 - yes. Would I buy another Android - maybe. Hopefully it will improve a lot!
It's where you're from... (Score:3, Informative)
I started out with Sprint, then Nextel, neither of which was any good. Could never hold on to calls, mad dead spots, problems with reception at home, etc. Then I got verizon and loved it (but hated the phone). Verizon's service was rock solid, but their data plans were way too much. Then my iPod (which I live and die by) broke and I didn't have the cash for both a new phone and a new ipod, so I changed to ATT and got my 32 gb 3gs. The service in the boston area is on par with verizon. I can't speak to the data network, but there are no significant dead spots, I can talk on the phone and move around, etc. The internet is fast enough for what I need it for when Im out.
Even when I drove out to western ny on 88/86 we mostly had (edge) service. A few dead spots between towers, but good enough.
I think NYC has it much worse than I do anywhere I've been.
So I think it just depends on where you are, and also what your expectations are. If you're a wicked heavy internet user and you travel all over the country, yea, obviously verizon is going to beat the shit out of everybody. But if you mostly stay in a place where att has decent coverage and is not overloaded too bad then it will be fine.
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Fine here (Score:2)
We haven't experienced a lot of trouble with the service. I get the occasional dropped call when I'm driving, but it's not enough to be more than a nuisance. I did see a significant network slowdown in terms of data while I was at a Rockies game, but, well, it was at Coors Field with thousands of people there, and many of them probably had
Hold the Phone! (Score:5, Interesting)
Ah, the "Yankee Group".
Let's take a look at the "independent research organization" called the "Yankee Group" who was the publisher of this rather surprising "study".
The single-sentence introductory paragraph to the rather glowing Yankee Group Wikipedia entry reads as follows: "Yankee Group, a Massachusetts company, sells advice and market-research information relating to information technology".
The Yankee group makes a considerable amount of it's income from the "consulting services" it offers to corporations. Consulting about what? About marketing products.
You might remember the Yankee Group because they were the ones who Microsoft hired to do a study showing that Windows 2003 was superior to Linux "in terms of quality, performance and reliability and that the Windows users are more satisfied than Linux users (think about that). Who did Yankee Group hire to do the actual "study" part? Ah, well, they hired "Sunbelt Software, a vendor of Windows utilities, which publicised the survey solely through a mailing list called W2Knews, billing itself as "the World's first and largest e-zine designed for NT/2000 System Admins and Power Users"."
So, the impartial study about Windows vs Linux was solely published in a Windows user group's online forum.
When Yankee Group was criticized for the many press releases that they put out trumpeting Windows obvious superiority over Linux, this is what happened:
This according to ZDNet.
So, at a time when Microsoft was engaged in a FUD campaign against Linux, pushing their "revolutionary" 2003 Server, they hire the Yankee Group to frame "radical" Linux users as "extremist fringe" and "loonies" and are "disrespectful" and "threatening".
So you're an IT manager and you read that. You want "disrespectful and threatening loonies" working for you or do you want to hire the more satisfied Windows administrators whose platform is "superior" in terms of "quality, performance and reliability"? That was exactly how the press releases from the Yankee Group read.
So, all you iPhone users are just thrilled to death with AT&T? Fascinating...
Linux loonies (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Linux loonies (Score:4, Interesting)
Good for you, iceperson, but the point here is that the Yankee Group, the outfit that did this "study" showing how iPhone users love AT&T are known to do greasy things with their "studies". It has nothing to do with whether or not you like your iPhone.
The study they sponsored, showing how Windows Server 2003 is "superior" to Linux, was done using a survey that was only published to a Windows user group.
It would be like publishing a survey in Mac Life asking whether OSX was superior to Windows and Linux, and then publishing the results as evidence that OSX is clearly superior based on an "independent study".
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"Consumers transfer the high gloss of their Apple iPhone experience to AT&T," says Carl Howe, Yankee Group analyst and author of the study.
If I were paying to have my company come across positively, I would not want the reasoning for it explained quite like that.
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Maybe. OTOH it might be that, despite such legitimising quotes, the desired message gets through just fine.
A similar report notes... (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously, AT&T and the iPhone are probably good enough for the majority of people for what they need it to do. People know nothing is perfect and, so, good enough is fine.
Be more satisfied with what "is" than dissatisfied with what "could be".
Me? I own a Qualcomm QCP-1900 from around 1997 using PrimeCo/nTelos. Don't use it a whole lot, but the phone still works like a champ and I have *never* had a call dropped. I say "bah" to your fancy text and web-enabled phones, mine actually works as a *phone* :-)
NY & SF are not everything after all (Score:2)
In a shocking development today, it was learned that 97% of the US population actually does not live in New York City or San Francisco.
Meaningless statistic (Score:5, Insightful)
The only way the stat they measured carries any weight is if you compare to an identical survey of customers with other phone networks. The relative satisfaction rate between different providers can carry some statistical meaning. e.g. If AT&T's satisfaction rate is 73% and Verizon's is 90% (made up as an example), that tells you something. Otherwise, all you're doing is measuring the degree of self-selection of a self-selected population, which is pretty useless for market analysis.
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Proof that Google has fanboys too. (Score:2, Insightful)
I had no idea Android phones' ratings were so low; I'd like to see some other studies to make sure this isn't a fluke. That said, anyone who is spinning these numbers as good for Google is self-delusional. If you're claiming a 20% "Would buy again" rating as proof that Android is superior to iPhone, you've crossed into Baghdad Bob [wikipedia.org] territory.
I think Google has done a great job with Android as an operating system, but they really need to start thinking about the Android "experience". As much as people obse
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In fact Android is a trademark, there are requirements for its use, like for example having standardized hardware buttons and minimum performance specs. The iPhone meanwhile does not have a standard screen resolution (retina display, hello!), nor are capabilities or performance consistent across the different devices. In fact the same version of the OS may offer wildly differing capabilities depending on what hardware it's on.
The differences between Android and iOS are blown out of proportion by the media.
I don't mind AT&T at all nowadays (Score:4, Interesting)
I was on the old Cingular network when I first went into business. My first smartphone was a Treo 650. It sucked. Switched to a Treo 700p on Verizon a couple of years later when it came out. Network was a little better, phone sucked worse. Far worse.
After debating it with myself for a while, I bought the first iPhone when it came out in 2007. I still wasn't impressed by the AT&T network, but the phone worked so well I didn't care. When 3G came to pass I was unimpressed enough that if Verizon had an equivalent phone then that could have done simultaneous voice and data I might have switched.
Starting in late 2008, the AT&T network in my area's gotten a lot better. Good enough that I'm not tempted to switch anymore. I upgraded to the iPhone 4 last month, and antenna problems or not it improves reception even more for me - drop spots I had with older AT&T phones (going back to my Treo 650) are not a problem anymore. 3G speeds are excellent. When my VZ contract expires for the data card I have with them next month I will cancel it and just use tethering on my iPhone to save more money.
Basically, I pay less than I used to, have a better phone, and next to no network issues anywhere I go regularly. On the rare occasion I've had to call customer service they've been helpful and easy to reach. More than once they've called me back to follow up and make sure I'm happy. Bottom line for me - I'm happy with AT&T, and I see no reason to change. And I'm a happy iPhone user as well. As long as they don't screw it up, I'll stick with AT&T.
Well, if they're AT&T android customers... (Score:3, Interesting)
All the carriers suck (Score:4, Insightful)
Everybody's service sucks. I hear Verizon customers bitch all day long then someone mentions iPhone and all off a sudden they love Verizon and AT&T is the devil. I have had many carriers and they all suck. I tolerate AT&T's suck because the iPhone is better than any other phone I have tried.
It depends on the market (Score:4, Interesting)
It depends on the market, for sure. Here in the Washington DC area, AT&T is the combined 1900 MHz AT&T and 850 MHz Cingular. The service has provided superior voice coverage, moved to the higher-coverage 850 MHz band, with data in the 1900 MHz band. People tend to notice problems more on the voice network so it's top-notch here in DC.
On the other side of things, the New York City market is where AT&T coverage suffers. In the past, T-Mobile and Cingular created a network called "GSM Partners" which created a powerful, market-saturating 1900 MHz network for Cingular and T-Mobile, while the also-ran AT&T competed with a spotty, pathetic 1900 MHz network with hardly any 850 MHz coverage. When Cingular and AT&T merged, that network was required to be divested to sole owner T-Mobile. As a result, T-Mobile is solid coverage in New York City, but AT&T is a pathetic, spotty player.
It really depends on where you live. Los Angeles market has a similar situation. Here in DC, we love our AT&T network with solid 850 MHz voice and 1900 MHz data. It's too bad it's not so good in NYC and other markets.
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I bought a 3G 2 years ago. Then bought a 4 as soon as I could.
I've played a little with my friend's Androids. They don't do anything for me. Too many options. I'm a fairly hard core geek but sometimes you just don't want to be bothered with all the options. They just make things confusing.
Re:Why is this alarming? (Score:4, Insightful)
I herby revoke your geek license.
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They just make things confusing.
Well, that will get you no cred here. I suspect you're like me - it's not about confusing, its about wasting time. My Fuze worked great for a year without incident. I spent probably 50 hours and $80-$100 on apps and ROM customization, and it worked very well, given it's inherent limitations (I wanted a finger OS, and WM is stylus oriented). I never had a lick of problems with it rebooting or not being able to answer calls. Until I had problems pairing it with a Kenwood head unit. I tried reinstalling, using the latest ROM, only to find that the screen lock on the new OS made the phone unanswerable 85% of the time. I probably wasted 20 hours trying to fix it.
I have to fix all the computers and the server at work, the home theater system at home, my personal desktop, and my laptop. Quite honestly, I'm tired of applying hacks just to make machines passably useful. I just want my phone to fucking work, and I don't want to have to track and install patches and upgrades. I was ->- this close to sending my iP4 back to Steve with a letter bomb attached after 4.0.1 bricked my phone. It took 2 damned hours to fix. It has certainly clouded my view of iOS, but I'm screwed anywhere else I go, too.
Re:Why is this alarming? (Score:5, Insightful)
Too many options. I'm a fairly hard core geek but sometimes you just don't want to be bothered with all the options. They just make things confusing.
Sorry, you just lost your geek cred. Go astroturf on the Apple forums, please
Here's a novel concept for you - sometimes people just like to perform a task at hand without having to endlessly tweak the tools they want to use. Now if you'd please go back to the Gentoo forums, that'd be great.
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That's not a translation. That's a stupid spin. 80% of Android customers would not buy Android again, given the oppurtunity. 77% of iPhone users would. You fail statistics but you clearly excel at sucking slashcock
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What a load of crap. It's impossible to come up with any sort of 'translation' without knowing what question was asked of the pollees. If it was "when you buy your next phone, will it be the same one (iPhone/Android)?" then your rewording would be entirely false.
You're also insinuating that 77% of iPhone users are numbskulls who will just keep buying iPhones until Apple makes a 'good' one, in their eyes, while Android users are much more thoughtful and bright. As much as slashdotters love to drag out that
Re:Why is this alarming? (Score:4, Insightful)
I didn't realize that telephones were capable of becoming obsolete. All they have to do is transmit a vocalized conversation... nothing to really update there.
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I didn't realize that telephones were capable of becoming obsolete. All they have to do is transmit a vocalized conversation... nothing to really update there.
If "[a]ll they have to do is transmit a vocalized conversation then iPhones, Android phones and all 'smart phones' are unnecessary. The 'tech support' and warranties for phones (analog, feature phones and smart phones) runs out well before the minimum 2 yr required contract with a carrier does. The nature of their portability and use means cell phones take a beating.
If a carrier like Verizon moves away from CDMA (which is a real possibility over the next few years) all the CDMA phone still using their ne
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Ah forced ignorance. I'm sure you think you are clever trying to prove a point, but anyone with two braincells can tell that the only fucking idiot here is you.
(Hint: Telephones != smart phones and smart phones, like most consumer technology, becomes obsolete pretty quick. But don't let that get in the way of you and the five people who think you're method of reasoning is somehow intelligent).
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I didn't realize that telephones were capable of becoming obsolete. All they have to do is transmit a vocalized conversation... nothing to really update there.
And how many iPhone/Android buyers bought their phones to transmit vocalized conversation? Considering the fact that the apps and the multi-functionality of the devices are their selling points, I'd say that for the purposes these phones are bought for, they become quite quickly obsolete.
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Your post is a nice example of the ignorance that permeates /.
You're the smartest man in a theater. While the rest of the audience enjoys their dumb comedy, you're shouting "Stop laughing! Can't you all see the plot is nonsensical?!". There is a problem, but it isn't with the rest of the audience.
What happened to "Think different"? (Score:4, Interesting)
While the rest of the audience enjoys their dumb comedy, you're shouting "Stop laughing! Can't you all see the plot is nonsensical?!". There is a problem, but it isn't with the rest of the audience.
What you are describing sounds a lot like that "Think different" stuff, yet you say it as if it's a bad thing.
Since when did nonconformity become a positive thing only if it's used to sell Apple products?
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Are you saying the users are dropping calls and are unaware of it?
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Are you saying the users are dropping calls and are unaware of it?
I have AT&T and I am not satisfied with their service. I have no complaints about their customer service, but their cell service is sub-par.
My iPhone drops a *lot* of calls - at least a few every day (whether I'm at home, at a client or on the road). I'm in NJ about 1/2 hour from NYC so there's no 'rural' excuse or 'NIMBY' excuse. Hell, I have trouble getting an AT&T signal near the AT&T facility that's 10 minutes from here.
If I'm on the phone while driving (legally 'hands free' via blue
Re:It's an iThing. (Score:5, Informative)
I'll laugh my ass off, though, if the iPhone comes to Verizon and it drops calls constantly. If it doesn't, I'll be pissed that, for some reason, every other phone manufacturer can handle weaker coverage but Apple can't.
FWIW I live in europe and have an iPhone which I've used on several networks (and countries) and it performs the same or better as the other phones I've had (last phone was a SE-550.) YMMV, sample size of one and all that.
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That's not what I said.
That's why I asked for clarification as opposed to jumping into argue mode. ;)
It's also not so black and white - for example the iPhone could be skipping during the phone call, not drop it completely. Which most users again would probably think happens to everyone.
Why would they be more prone to accepting that than any other phone user?
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I'm guessing he got it from the same place I did, by observing the victims firsthand.
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Look, the bottom line is that Apple users like Apple. So what? If you don't like Apple, don't use it's products. End of story. Why the trolling?
Re:Ignorance (Score:5, Insightful)
As for AT&T it also largely depends on who you ask. I live in a suburb of Philadelphia and AT&T provides pretty much the same coverage as my old Sprint phone and other people's Verizon phones. I have my areas and they have theirs, but overall it is a moot point. I have yet to experience a dropped call because where I live the service is fine. Chances are the vast majority of iPhone users live in a place where the service is not an issue. Other than the service the carrier is just like any other.
tl;dr The arguments are unnecessary, it boils down to individual preference / a personal choice.
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I've owned Apple computers since 1993 and an iPhone since March 2009. What exactly am I doing wrong by owning and using them?
This is being typed out on an ASUS G73 I bought to game on. From an experienced Windows, LINUX and OS X user, here is an observation, Windows and modern Linux distros are a pain in the butt to use compared to OS X. PC hardware from the big vendors like Lenovo, ASUS, Dell or HP don't last as long as a Mac.
But when my PC went wonky and I needed to recover data, Ubuntu 10 is the first pl
Re:Ignorance (Score:5, Insightful)
"...but how am I ignorant for buying one?"
Obviously you're not. But people like your parent poster tend to base their hate more on emotions and wanting to be on the anti-Apple bandwagon than on real issues. Apple makes great stuff. Not perfect, but great.
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On the other hand I do kind of wonder where they plan on going if they want a smart phone and not Android. Blackberry? Are all of them really thinking of switching to iPhone? That's hard to believe.
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Actually, I think it's just ignorance and lack of technical knowledge from the users. Apple and its users tend to run around telling how great their products are and there are no faults in anything. They most likely think it must be the same thing with every device.
Not so sure about that - 50% of Mac buyers are 'new to Mac', and so have plenty of experience of other platforms, and their imperfections.
And the iPhone has only been around for a few years, so almost anyone that owns one will have owned some other brand of phone before, so they too will be more than aware of what the user experience is like on a 'non-apple' phone.
Another great example of this ignorance (and misinformation spread by Apple) is that Mac OSX is virus-free and will stay so, while in fact there have been several recent instances of malware on OSX. The funny thing is that because Apple spreads these lies and users blindly trust them, they also are ignorant and can't see it. It's the classic lalalalala.
Ignorance is what is happening here too.
There is, regrettably, a vocal group of apple users who spread this kind of stuff, but I'm not sure apple specifically say their OS is v
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Actually, I think it's just ignorance and lack of technical knowledge from the users.
And this is different how from Windows users, Android users or (insert technology here) users?
Apple and its users tend to run around telling how great their products are and there are no faults in anything.
And this is different from Microsoft, Google, Dell, Nike, Coca Cola ... how? Every company that wants to make money touts their products as being the absolute best. Duh! Marketing 101! Name me one successful company that tells people: Hey, our products have flaws in them, but please buy them!
Another great example of this ignorance (and misinformation spread by Apple) is that Mac OSX is virus-free and will stay so, while in fact there have been several recent instances of malware on OSX. The funny thing is that because Apple spreads these lies and users blindly trust them, they also are ignorant and can't see it. It's the classic lalalalala.
Nice troll.
Ignorance is what is happening here too.
Yes because Windows, Android and other technology users are so smart and informed. For a great example, look at th
Re:Ignorance (Score:5, Insightful)
Excuse me, but I don't know how else to put this: fuck off.
I love my iPhone, despite it's faults, and I'm a pretty technical person. How technical? I have a degree in physics, have worked with open source and Linux since 1995, was a senior Linux sysadmin for 10 years, and spent a few of the years in between working as an *embedded Linux developer* for mobile projects.
Do I go around telling people that OS X is completely safe and free from viruses and other malware? No. Do I tell them that it's a platform that lets them access the power of Unix without having to fuck around at the command line? Yes.
Same with the phone. Do I say "Hey! This phone was made by Jesus himself and is completely infallible"? Or is it more likely that I say "Hey, it's got its faults - but it's still a great phone ... especially if you're not a Slashdot commenter"?
Enough with the self-righteous anti-fanboy shit. Your generalization of "Apple users" is insulting and wrong.
Re:Ignorance (Score:5, Funny)
Enough with the self-righteous anti-fanboy shit. Your generalization of "Apple users" is insulting and wrong.
But... but.. but... the headlines on all the ad-supported news sites and blogs I read say that Apple phones don't work, the factory workers kill themselves, no apps get approved, moisture sensors get tripped, there are useful features on the phone but you don't really want to jailbreak it, and that the iPad is a clone of an unsuccessful device from the 90's. Based on that, only millions of exceptionally stupid people would buy the phone!!1!
Re:Ignorance (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Malware != virus, just so we're clear. Do you have any citations to back your claim up about OS X viruses? Didn't think so.
Yes, I do [sophos.com]. Also OSX is a BSD variant, which have had several viruses in the 80's and 90's.
Besides, Apple over-simplifies a lot for customers. When they're talking about viruses, they mean all of them - viruses, malware, spyware, trojans and so on.
BSD viruses and over-simplification (Score:5, Interesting)
1. What BSD had in the 80s and 90s, those were worms, not technically viruses. But you can be forgiven for not understanding the distinction.
2. OSX kernel is not a BSD variant. the userspace is a BSD variant. The kernel is a Mach variant with a BSD personality welded onto it. (If I showed you some BSD code in the Windows98 kernel would you claim that Win98 is a "BSD variant").
3. Apple's website specifically mentions malware [apple.com]. So any over-simplification is on your part, not Apple's in this case.
Re:BSD viruses and over-simplification (Score:4, Insightful)
History is a slut. I, for one, thank you for remembering the salient facts. It's unfortunate, but one popular book and one researcher that repeats an inserted "legend" or something as fact and... there goes what really happened (can't help... drifting off)
I think Mac OS X is the ultimate product bootstrap. The real trouble at Apple when Jobs left was the future of the operating system. History is going to believe, once it's watered down, that Steve realized this, realized what a monumental task it was, and left Apple for this purpose. NeXT took Mach, which is free, cutting edge stuff, and grafted FreeBSD, which is free, wonderful solid amazing OS, and created something different that does the same thing as most modern operating systems.... what's so great about Mac OS X? Under NeXT, APIs and developer environments were created... enticing developers. NeXT will just appear to be a developer stage for an Apple product, and there are other (usually failed) examples in Apple's history of creating products this way. Mac OS X isn't simply FreeBSD??Mach... it's that, with all the other technologies and software Apple has built, and third party devs have created.
Most users (no slashdotters) probably confuse their operating system with their user interface. They think Mac OS X is Finder, and Dock, and Desktop, menus, windows, the pointer, etc. And it's so much more than that. Oh.... it's FreeBSD/Mach, too, the backend... but, yeah, but.... that's just the skeleton, the frame upon which all the really great things about Mac OS X are extended from, built onto, tucked away into, and decorated.
So it's in the filling in the gaps... and the way Jobs with NeXT, away from Apple, shaped an incredibly essential piece of technology for Apple (i.e., a fully modern, scalable and proprietary operating system). And Apple now boldly cannibalizes Mac OS X developers now to fix software in other products. "Their" OS is now so resilient, or at least the user base is satisfied enough with it, that development can slow to a crawl on the most essential part of a computer to a typical user, without the sky falling.
Jobs (and an army of devs) created a really nice piece of tech for Apple, a product that they give away with their hardware, a product that sells their hardware, that is nimble enough for platform jumping whims without developers caring anymore.
I have some negative Apple moderators stalking me, so no one will ever see this but, I think Mac OS X, Snow Leopard, as much as it annoys me, is underrated running on Mac hw. Linux is sweet for it's purpose and I believe will do more cycle per cycle, but takes babysitting; Windows is... incomprehensible to me now (who's it for now exactly?). But Mac OS X can be quickly customized to do almost anything, which is why old macs running old Mac OS X can still be very useful in audio, print, and on the LAN.
For the last few years, and for a precious few more, I think a Churchillized view of consumer OS's is applicable: Apple's Mac OS X is the worst computer operating system there is for almost anything, collectively, anyone would want to do, except for all the others.
Re:Ignorance (Score:4, Funny)
You did the switch wrong. If you aren't a Mac-fanboy you need to find the relative that is the one that gets fed up and tries a Mac and begins drinking the kool-aid. Then you need to let them evangelize Macs so your other relatives purchase them. Then when a computer eventually has a problem, HDD crashes, they delete something they didn't want to, who knows. When they come to you for help you just turn around and say, "I don't know/support Macs". At this point you are no longer the family tech support guy.
Re: (Score:2)
That's a big if. I don't say viruses are impossible on OSX, but the "chance" of *you* being able to write one for the current version of OS X? As near to zero as makes no difference.
Re:Ignorance (Score:5, Funny)
If I were to write a Mac OS X virus and prove that it works, is there any chance you'll quit saying that? No? Didn't think so.
I think if you wrote a Mac OS X virus Steve Jobs would drive to your house and ask you to stop it. He's a very persuasive guy. ;-)
Re:Ignorance (Score:5, Informative)
You're asking us to choose from two quotes, that you've put in quotation marks, that you've made up yourself.
The answer behind the stupid question is that the Flash browser plugins crash browsers on OSX. They don't crash the OS.
(nvm that other OSes do fine when Flash goes bonkers)
i.e. The same story as OSX.
Re:Ignorance (Score:4, Informative)
Oh no, you're not getting away so easily with that one. Here, a word from the messiah: "We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash."
And the story with supposed impressive stability goes on for a long time (and is featured in Apple marketing - so quick to forget "Hi, I'm a
Flash will cause Safari/Firefox to crash but it doesn't bring down OS X, at least not in my experience. I've had OS X crash on me a few times for all kinds of reasons but never because of "Adobe Flash" of all things. As of it's latest iteration even Safari doesn't even crash on you anymore because of Flash. It just throws up a dialog box [ignorethecode.net] informing you that Flash has had yet another one of it's familiar brian farts and gives you the option of sending a crash-report to Apple. You can wheel out some badly worded comment by Saint Steve but it doesn't change the fact that you are just plain wrong.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In his experience vs. how you've chosen to interpret an ambiguous statement.
No, you're wrong because, unlike the other poster, you lack the experience of Macs to know what happens when Flash crashes. So you don't know w
Re: (Score:3)
Public understands "the computer crashes" in decently specific way...and considering Apple would like to see (and certainly cares about) only one browser engine on their machines, he could've just said 'Safari."
Again, there was no clarification. When will you get that?
Re:translation (Score:5, Insightful)
77% of iPhone users are fan boys/girls
80% of Android users value freedom of choice
95% of all fanboys don't realize they're fanboys.
Re: (Score:2)
98% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Re: (Score:2)
77% of iPhone users would give money again to Apple.
20% of Android users would do the same to any number of manufacturers
Is it any wonder Apple's cleaning up in the mobile industry? [businessinsider.com]
Re: (Score:2)
And 100% of Android users want the ability to remove shovelware [slashdot.org] from their phone without having to root it.
Translated translation (Score:2)
Shird hates Apple.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So If I looked at the Android and the other networks and I decided to go with AT&T and iPhone because they were the best products for me. I am most likely a fan boy?
I agree a lot of the Android Phones are getting really good... However Apple has been the company that has been really raising the bar... Not Android. What Android does is raises their bar to Apples Level for Apple to raise it again.
Having been a Verizon Customer then to switch to AT&T I have to say I was happier with AT&T... Their
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Who did they ask? People inside of Apple's campus.. You've got to be kidding me.
Got to love it--some research challenges your preconceived notions so, of course, the only thing to do is reconsider said notions, right?
Wrong. Better to disparage the research than admit they might have been incorrect.
Come on, parent is not a troll. (Score:4, Insightful)
In fact, he nailed it spot on. The GP doesn't like the conclusions of the study, so he just assumes the study or the researchers are wrong. It's an excellent illustration of confirmation bias (or, in this case, its inverse).
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
From the article, it is extremely likely that the main reason that the iPhone users rate AT&T so highly is because (*drum roll*) it has the iPhone. In short, they are fans of the iPhone, not really AT&T, but since AT&T is the exclusive carrier of the iPhone... The article links it to the supposed "Reality Distortion Field" that supposedly affects all users of Apple products (or at least the Apple Fanboys), but quite simply I think that it is that many of the iPhone users are extremely tolerant
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
> Now, as for why the majority of these people *must* have an iPhone so badly, I refuse to speculate as it would probably
> result in some unfavorable comments about the Apple faithful.
It's no great mystery. It's the best phone. You heard about it reinventing the smartphone, right? You only need to work your brain to figure out why people would pay the same price for a phone that is not the best phone. Same as it's not hard to figure out why people buy iPods, but you have to wonder why they bought Zune
Re: (Score:2)
Better to disparage the research than admit they might have been incorrect.
Nothing really unique about that, creationists have been practicing that for about 200 years.
Re:What a joke of a survey. (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Stockholm Syndrome?
Don't you mean iStockholm iSyndrome?
Re: (Score:2)
You and most people I know don't have problems with using their iphone, but I hate when someone calls me on their iphone - either to my landline or cell. The voice quality is terrible from the iphone.
Re:Not surprising.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Android users come from a more diverse population who are probably not loyal to any one thing but want good 'product' in a smart phone but have no tying factor to the platform.
Let's just say this BS is right. That doesn't change the fac that *80 percent of them* don't believe Android is "a good 'product'". Ignoring how customers feel about competing products, if that isn't an indictment of the Android platform, I don't know what is.
Re:Not surprising.... (Score:5, Informative)
Android users come from a more diverse population who are probably not loyal to any one thing but want good 'product' in a smart phone but have no tying factor to the platform.
Let's just say this BS is right. That doesn't change the fac that *80 percent of them* don't believe Android is "a good 'product'". Ignoring how customers feel about competing products, if that isn't an indictment of the Android platform, I don't know what is.
That is 80% of AT&T Android users. AT&T only sells gimped Android phones.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Mod parent post up. Most people don't realize AT&T carries Android phones that don't compete with the iPhone. The 20% speaks to those phones, not phones like the HTC EVO [sprint.com], which is so popular it's sold out.
Fine print: I work for Google and these opinions are my own, not theres.
Re:Not surprising.... (Score:4, Insightful)
What a lovely little world you live in. It's one in which people who don't agree with you don't "want a good product".
I use an iPhone and continue to use it because it is a better product for my needs than the Android. I'm not being a doofus like you and claiming that the iPhone is a better phone for your needs.
It would seem that the only honest conclusion is that, of the survey population, more iPhone users than Android users believe that the iPhone best meets their needs and will continue to meet their needs.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Try reading at least the part of the post you quote.
Re: (Score:2)
"Mac/Apple lovers are generally loyal to the bitter end, like devoted followers of most products and can look past most faults."
Really? I suppose you just made that up because it fits your emotional model of the world, but what do you base that on? Do you really think Android/Microsoft/Linux users are not equally loyal and devoted? I'd say they are seeing as how I'm regularly referred to as gay, stupid or ignorant just because I like Apple products.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Do you know what that means? Or do you just like saying it because it makes you feel like a big boy.
Re: (Score:2)
but where are these Android users going to go? I highly fucking doubt it's to the iPhone, since People seem to never want to break their plans or contract with an existing devil-service.
AT&T sells Android, BlackBerry and Win Mobile as well as iPhones. An AT&T Android users could join those of us on the dark side, or they could jump to another platform. Non-AT&T subscribers can't go to an iPhone until their contracts run out unless they're willing to pay an ETF (which is much less likely). All that is presuming that Android users want to change platforms. I think by the time an Android user's contract is up they'll be used to taking advantage of all that an Android phone offers