Microsoft Unveils 'Pink' Phones As Kin One and Two 278
adeelarshad82 writes "Microsoft has recently launched two new phones known as the Kin One and Kin Two, previously codenamed 'Pink.' The phones are designed to appeal to social-networking-focused teens, which is probably why the marketing team has tried to spice up the packaging of the phones. According to a Microsoft official the phones are named Kin because they 'knit together ... kindred spirits.' The phones have a keyboard. The Kin One has a 5-megapixel camera, while the Kin Two's 8-megapixel camera can shoot 720p HD video. Both cameras include an LED flash. The One has a mono speaker, the Two's is stereo. One includes 4GB of on-board memory and the Two has 8GB. Both Kin phones have touch screens. According to the hands-on, the Kin phones are based on the same Windows CE core as Windows Phone 7, and they have an IE-based browser. These phones have no downloadable apps, no games, not even a calendar. They're not meant to be expandable smart phones; instead, very good messaging phones."
The tea leaves say.... (Score:5, Funny)
"No apps. Less functionality than an iPhone. Lame."
See, Taco, this is how you make correct prophecies...
.
Want a higher place in heaven? Suffer now. (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, but you get something you don't get with Apple. You get abused by Microsoft.
Is this the Windows Vista of phones, the Windows ME of phones, or the Zune of phones?
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lol what? you';re abused less by apple than MS? this is like telling X person that you like them better than Y person because they're newer.
flavors of the same.
Re:Want a higher place in heaven? Suffer now. (Score:5, Funny)
But in Apple’s case, the pillow is filled with totalitarian control and reality distortion poison, while the MS baseball bat is of the soft kind, but infected with all kind of diseases with long incubation times.
In other words: With MS you make your computer a zombie. An Apple computer makes a zombie out of YOU! ;)
These will go far, have a cigar. (Score:5, Funny)
And by the way, which one is Pink?
--- squirted from my Zune.
"very good messaging phones"... (Score:5, Informative)
...and yet, apparently, without any way to do IM (at least Wikipedia page and links there about them says so)
Seriously, WTF? I could understand their lack of expandability, software-wise (especially if the price is right), if the "social" package they provide is right (though by no means unique - see INQ phones). But no IM? How did that get through?
Re:"very good messaging phones"... (Score:4, Funny)
IM is basically worthless if you have SMS.
SMS > IM.
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How so? Don't carriers require you to pay through the nose for SMS, where IM would be part of the data connection you already pay for?
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It'll be targeted towards the unlimited texting crowd, similar to the sidekick.
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Genius.
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Except for slashdot users most people don't spend that much time at their computer and a single platform is more intuitive for them. SMS messages are automatically split and re-assembled so size is irrelevant. Teens will have unlimited plans so cost is not a concern.
SMS also doesn't have to deal with inability to receive offline messages, server reconnects/disconnects, multiple formats for sending non-text data and so on.
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The 90s called and it wants its cell phone back.
Actually I think the 90s was the last time I had a cell phone with no calendar.
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SMS > IM.
SMS survives only because there are people without data plans.. People who have a data plan often add in small SMS plan to their phone because they have some friends who still don't have a data plan.. as data plans increase, there will be less people who do this.. I pay a little extra for SMS, but not for much longer.
Re:"very good messaging phones"... (Score:4, Insightful)
That's hilarious. SMS is obscenely expensive, very unreliable, limited to phones, and very expensive. Yes, expensive is in there twice for a reason.
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How many people use IM on their smartphones? I don't know a single person who does. Its SMS/MMS/Twitter/Facebook et all all the way.
I'm sure though its only a matter of time before IM functionality is incorporated since the phone is based on cloud services anyway.. instead of an "app for that" it will be a "cloud service" for that.
I really like the fact that MS is consuming external services and publishing them to end users rather than re-inventing them.. can't say the same for google buzzzzzz
Way to go (Score:3, Interesting)
"These phones have no downloadable apps, no games, not even a calendar. They're not meant to be expandable smart phones; instead very good messaging phones."
Nice job, Microsoft. Way to ignore the growing trends in favor of your own way. After all, you certainly know better than those lousy consumers.
In all fairness, though, they'll probably sell like hotcakes in the niche market they're designed for. I just don't see it as a very big market.
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In all fairness, though, they'll probably sell like hotcakes in the niche market they're designed for.
They'll be the first (and last) phone which has MILEY in its A9 dictionary.
Re:Way to go (Score:5, Insightful)
Tweens and Teens sounds like a pretty big market to me. Depending on the price they'll either do alright or fail miserably. If Jr want's a $200 smart phone but one of these can be had for $50 you can bet there's going to be a lot of parents that take something like this as a compromise. If the options are spend $400 (+$30 per month) or something at a more reasonable price that gets by with a smaller data plan, parents will jump all over it (lest they be labeled 'bad parents' by their kids for not getting them what they want).
Time will tell, we don't really know enough about the phones to say much at the moment. To me they look like the almost-but-not-quite smart phones that are already on the market today. MS might be too late to the party to see major sales.
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At this point, an iPhone one generation removed (currently the 3G, by the end of the summer the 3GS) can be had for $100, brand new.
They are going to have to go for the $0-$25 after subsidy market if they want to use price. The Palm Pre is pretty cheap, and has many of these features. There is always a Blackberry that is basically free.
It's an interesting little phone, but it seems like it is a feature phone that should have come out a year or so ago.
In fact, it seems like it would be most interested if
almost smartphones but with a possibly killer app (Score:2)
They look like almost-but-not-quite smart phones that are already on the market today
Indeed, they do look like today's features phones. However, look closer and you'll see that their friends and "internet friends" social hub could be a killer app. People seem to think condensing all the social networks into one spot is the bee's knees.
Then throw in the "Apple pretty" interface thanks to the nVidia Tegra chip, and you've got a feature phone ahead of the curve.
Re:Way to go (Score:4, Funny)
Tweens and Teens sounds like a pretty big market to me.
Yeah, I was looking at that...
This phone is specifically designed to increase the supply of questionable-legal-age teen pron.
Re:Way to go (Score:5, Funny)
I hope this device will be as successful as the zune.
It's running zunes os after-all.
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Why? We consumers are better off with increased competition.
Re:Way to go (Score:4, Interesting)
In all fairness, though, they'll probably sell like hotcakes in the niche market they're designed for. I just don't see it as a very big market.
I'm guessing that niche is "parents who can be convinced by advertising that they're buying what their kids want".
Re:Way to go (Score:5, Funny)
I'm guessing that niche is "parents who can be convinced by advertising that they're buying what their kids want".
It worked for Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge...
Re:Way to go (Score:5, Insightful)
"These phones have no downloadable apps, no games, not even a calendar. They're not meant to be expandable smart phones; instead very good messaging phones."
Nice job, Microsoft. Way to ignore the growing trends in favor of your own way. After all, you certainly know better than those lousy consumers.
In all fairness, though, they'll probably sell like hotcakes in the niche market they're designed for. I just don't see it as a very big market.
Actually, it's probably a good move for the same reasons that the iPhone was a good move. Smartphones, while growing still aren't the majority of the market. Lots of people want "just a phone". Kids, however, want messaging, but the parents that pay for it probably don't want smart phone fees or for that matter, connection to the internet. There was a story on /. just yesterday by a parent asking how to filter his teenage kids access to the internet. It seems like a perfectly valid market that is probably no more niche than smartphones. Not everybody needs or wants a smart phone, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who want a messaging phone. I think the real test will be if it followed good design and they are indeed "very good messaging phones."
Re:Way to go (Score:5, Interesting)
"These phones have no downloadable apps, no games, not even a calendar. They're not meant to be expandable smart phones; instead very good messaging phones."
Nice job, Microsoft. Way to ignore the growing trends in favor of your own way. After all, you certainly know better than those lousy consumers.
I was talking to my 23 year old sister about this phone. Here's an interesting snippet
[17:02] Sister: it looks cool
[17:02] Sister: too bad it's not sprint
[17:03] Me: Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what price details emerge this month
[17:03] Sister: it's cool you don't have to get apps for it, the features are built in
[17:03] Me: haha all the nerds are holding that against it
[17:04] Sister: and the camera capability is good!
[17:04] Sister: i don't want to have to hunt around for 20 apps
[17:04] Sister: it would work right away
Not only did she not care about the lack of app store, she saw it as a bonus. It looks like MSFT was definitely listening to a consumer segment when they designed the phone. It will be interesting to see just how many people like my sister there are out there.
Re:Way to go (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, but is she hot?
Re:Way to go (Score:4, Funny)
Tits or GTFO.
Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
I just can't take these products seriously. Instead of this niche marketing, microsoft needs to focus on something with broad appeal. There's a reason iPhone beat them in that space, and this is exactly it.
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microsoft needs to focus on something with broad appeal. There's a reason iPhone beat them in that space, and this is exactly it.
It appeals to broads?
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It appeals to broads?
Welcome to the 21st century, Mr. Chandler!
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- big old iPod (a few years later) big old Zune
- skinny iPod (a few years later) skinny Zune
- iPod touch (a couple of years later) Zune HD
- iPhone (a couple of years later) this thing
Not only are they late to market copycats but they don't execute
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Microsoft provides the OS and Cloud Computing infrastructure. Sharp provides the phone.
I personally thing this is pretty cool. Its not the best device by any means but it has great utility and if verizon can sell an affordable plan this phone makes perfect sense for people who want twitter, facebook, zune and the excellent camera features.
This also puts MS head over heals above every other smartphone company out there in terms of cloud computing and infrastructure. Instead of downloading "an app for that"
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Doesn't Xbox lose money still?
Doesn't really make sense... (Score:2)
It has all the costs to make of any other smartphone, because OS wise it is a smartphone. So it can't be cheaper than any other smartphone.
If anything, its more expensive because there is no app-related revenue.
So how does Microsoft expect to compete? Just lose more money at something?
Re:Doesn't really make sense... (Score:5, Interesting)
Only needs a CPU good enough to run the included apps. Probably dont even need a GPU. With application control, you also get reliable antialiasing (only fonts that look good included) so perhaps a regular 100DPI display may be good enough (iphones and recent ipods sport a 200DPI display, if I am not mistaken,) the battery probably wont need to be nearly as good, the memory probably doesnt need to be nearly as fast either...
There are probably lots of ways to cut costs here without sacrificing much beyond that initial sacrifice: no downloadable apps
The iphone reportedly costs ~$200 in parts
Microsoft has lost it (Score:4, Interesting)
Whatever they do now seems to be a pale caricature of reality... why is this the case?
Were they always this clueless?
It's sad... so much talent.
The Peter Principle (Score:5, Funny)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle [wikipedia.org] ...in a hierarchy, members are promoted so long as they work competently. Sooner or later they are promoted to a position at which they are no longer competent (their "level of incompetence"), and there they remain, being unable to earn further promotions. This principle can be modeled and has theoretical validity. Peter's Corollary states that "in time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out his duties" and adds that "work is accomplished by those employees who have not yet reached their level of incompetence".
In the corporate world especially, upper level politics and kickbacks and alliances always end up chucking creativity out the door, grinding it into the pavement, and writing off as an R&D expense as it's scooped into the dust bin.
Google avoids this by letting employees work on their own pet projects that get picked up for major development as they gain popularity in their internal culture, which seems to be quite good at picking winners. Apple has so far escaped this only because it's run like North Korea. There's one maniacal prick and marketing genius at the top of the food chain, and everyone else is meaningless.
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That MS is finally tapping into some of it's tens of billion of assets to make a pretty product seems
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What are you referring to, specifically? Would you say the same thing about, say, Motorola had they introduced a phone with this featureset and form-factor?
I mean, I agree that I don't find this announcement compelling, but then again I'm also not the audience for the phone.
I'm also all for griping about Microsoft, but at least give us some substance! What about this announcement are we supposed to hate, exactly?
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I fail to see your line between new creation and imitation...
You could say Word is an imitation of WordPerfect... However Word wasn't popular until it went to Windows where Word Perfect needed to catch up and make their product work for windows.
The same with Excel and Lotus 123
C# a language like Java which is a language like C++ which is like C... How about the success of Visual Basic?
Vista was a copy of a lot of OS X elements and building off of XP, the problems they had was poor implementation, not poo
Potential... (Score:5, Interesting)
But then it became more apparent that it's competing against the EnV and the Rage. What Verizon calls MultiMedia phones. It will likely be on the lower priced data plan (or maybe they'll make one between teh $10 and $30/month package). Given a choice between an EnV or a Kin, the Kin is an easy choice. If MS were to clean up the multimedia phone space at Verizon, I think you'll suddenly begin to see a new market emerge. Although it's a surprisingly tough market, because I think a lot of it hinges on the data center and carrier integration.
Watch how this plays out. I think it possibly flops, but could be iPhone like huge, but to a totally different market.
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What will happen to the users of this phone if the social networks change?
Not a problem, most kids will trade in their phones every couple of years of so anyway.
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You're right. There is a lot more to the mobile phone market than the high-end smart phone. Compared to any smart phone these two devices can't compete. But against the EnV, Backflip, etc I'd say they're more than interesting. I think the low to mid end of the mobile phone market is under-served with quality devices, there's a plethora of phones out there, but very few that are any good.
If these phones are executed well, they could definitely fill a gap in the market.
What I find most interesting about t
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Yeah, I actually kind of like this, coming from Microsoft.
Here's the thing: for the past decade or so, I haven't been a huge fan of Microsoft. They're big and lumbering and sloppy. One of the things I've commented on here before is how Microsoft's design philosophy is different from Apple's, and how Apple's is basically better. The short version: Apple's first release of a device is relatively simple, but very well put together and targeted toward specific uses and maybe even a specific audience, and th
Kin dle? (Score:2, Interesting)
We know that Apple protects their branding to a ridiculous degree... essentially arguing that any name with an "i" in front it threatens their intellectual property. So I wonder if Amazon will have anything to say about this new product? If I saw a news story about the "Kin Two", and the headline didn't qualify it as a Microsoft thing, my first assumption would be that it's a new version of Amazon's ebook reader.
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Maybe they should swap the 'Kin' and 'One' around. Rename it the "One Kin". People wont know what you are 'Two Kin' about. Just wait for the 'Four Kin'.
Maybe then we can have the Microsoft 'fucking' and 'wanking' phones.
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Two things. And I call them
Kin One and Kin Two.
These Things will not bite you.
They want to have fun."
Then, out of the box
Came Kin Two and Kin One
And Sally and I
Did not know what to do.
So we had to take hand
Of Kin One and Kin Two.
We took them in our hand.
But our fish said, "No! No!
Those Things should not be
In this house! Make them go!
"They should not be here
When your mother is not!
Put them out! Put them out!"
Said the fish in the pot.
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Now you have kindled my dreams for a product from somebody named "it".
Kin? Pink? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is it just me, or do the marketing folks at Microsoft have some serious deficiencies when it comes to naming products? Lets not forget The Monad Shell.
I guess this is what happens when they try to be creative. Otherwise everything is called either Windows, Business, or Office Something.
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Wasn't Monad just a code name? Besides, what's wrong with that name? It's certainly not worse than Cairo, Chicago or Vista.
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"Monad" -- a condition where you have a single (instead of paired) gonad, due to birth defect, accident, etc.
Re:Kin? Pink? (Score:5, Informative)
This "kin" stuff is just blah.
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How about "Windows Phone Series 7".
At least they didn't add "live" or "dot-net" to the name.
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It's "Windows Phone 7" now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone_7#Naming [wikipedia.org]
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This is the cellphone space. All their competitors have names like, "Envy", or "Cliq" or "Devour" or "Neon" or "Magnet" or "Curve" or "Reveal."
Microsoft's naming here is no worse than any other cell maker.
yupyup (Score:5, Informative)
Ars seemed to like them well enough. [arstechnica.com]
Oh dear (Score:2)
Sorry it had to be done.
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Sorry, modded this the wrong way (down instead of up) so have to reply to clear my mod. Thought comment was funny :-)
Kin (Score:2, Funny)
"Kin"?
Well, at least it'll sell well in Appalachia, enabling teens to keep track of which cousins are dating which.
IM Support (Score:5, Interesting)
It looks like the bet they're making is that including Facebook and Twitter support is a complete replacement for the traditional IM client. I'm not so sure that decision is so terrible from a marketing perspective. The trend I'm seeing is that old school IM clients just aren't as popular among less serious users nowadays; I get Facebook messages from all sorts of people I know would never bother getting a "real" IM account, or who have never figured out they already have one via Gmail.
Ultimately the real limitations of this phone aren't going to apparent until the matching data plan is announced. How much it will cost to download all the Twilight ringtones and background images that will obviously be introduced for this phone? These are the important questions. So far we already know that updates from some sites are put into 15 minute batches [engadget.com], presumably to same on network bandwidth, which doesn't bode well.
Re:IM Support (Score:5, Interesting)
Particularly if they are trying to move this thing as a cheaper "teen" alternative to the smartphone proper(just as the sidekick was the cheaper alternative to the blackberry), they'll need carrier cooperation in the form of somewhat cheaper data plans. Leaving out IM, and thus padding SMS usage, might well be the quasi-hidden subsidy that they need to make that happen.
KinP hone by Sharp (Score:2)
Very ugly (Score:2)
I really don't like that whole idea of the app screen being larg
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I really don't like that whole idea of the app screen being larger than the screen and you end up sliding things about to see stuff. They need to start paying some serious cash to steal designers away from Apple or something.
You do realize that once you have a sufficient number of apps, the iPhone app panel works just like the Kin one right?
They just don't get it, imo. The egg shaped one looks like a iPhone and Blackberry's retarded child. To be fair the rectangular one isn't too bad but nothing says cool about it.
I've read quite a few articles on this thing. Interestingly, the Kin 1 (egg shaped one), is getting all the good press and the Kin 2 (candy bar) is being derided as just another blah blah smart phone form factor. While I too am more attracted to the Kin 2 form factor, I think MS really did their homework and the Kin 1 will prove to be more popular among the devices target audience. Somebo
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It has to do better than previous Windows mobile phones (can't possibly do worse) but this is by far no threat to the iPhone or even Android, imo.
It's not intended to be. It's clearly not in the same market as the iPhone and Android are-- when Microsoft announces their Windows Mobile 7 phones, *then* you can compare them to iPhone and Android.
The Kin here is more like a Sidekick, that's who they're competing with.
Teens* + cameras... (Score:2, Funny)
Awesome! I can’t wait for the homemade porn.
* For values of “teen” equaling 18 or 19, of course.
Azure Data Grab (Score:3, Insightful)
From what I could understand from the presentation, everything goes through Azure.
Which means that all the posts you make go through Microsoft's data centers before they get posted on facebook/twitter/whatever.
This is all just a scheme for Microsoft to gather user data and to monetize on it. A data-grab scheme, plain and simple.
Tag this: Do Not Want
Y
Re:Azure Data Grab (Score:4, Interesting)
How does drivel like this get modded up? Microsoft has one of the best privacy policies of any of the cloud computing systems, probably better than the telco that most "Smart phone" users have for their contracts. IE, it isn't the azure/cloud platform you have to worry about.
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I don't know, after reading about these phones, one of the most appealing features sounds like the ability to have all your data available online.
One of the things I really want out of a phone is to not have my data stuck on my phone. Like I love the idea of Google Voice-- being able to have all my SMS and voicemail messages getting forwarded/stored in my email. I also like the idea that, when you take a picture with your camera, it automatically gets uploaded to a Flickr/Picasa sort of service.
I want m
Great timing by Microsoft (Score:2, Interesting)
Who's running things over there?
I want one - but only if... (Score:2)
At least they're innovating at some level (Score:2)
It's only a small thing (no pun intended) but this form factor (1 [pcmag.com], 2 [pcmag.com]) is, if nothing else, pretty different from everything else we've seen so far. I doubt it'll be enough to save the line, but at least someone, somewhere is trying new stuff.
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I could accept the small one if it was also... say... a Tamogatchi. If you could hang the phone on a necklace, it's screen was on all the time, and it could show your mood. Or display your horoscope. Or if it could do *anything*. But it doesn't seem to be for anything at all. It's too small to use for the web realistically, and while I'm sure kids can twitter with it, there are better phones in that mindspace.
So much money, so much power... (Score:2)
And Microsoft still can't make a decent product if their lives depended upon it. I fail to understand how a company that always hires "the best and the brightest" can make such lousy decisions. Seriously, what middle manager or marketing suit looked at this turd and said "killer! -- this is hot!"
Unless this phone is going to be DIRT CHEAP (as in free with a new contract), it's doomed to fail. Kids do not want "low end", they want what they see the celebrities using on MTV. And Rihanna isn't going to be usin
A Blackberry for young people? (Score:3, Interesting)
It's sort of like a Blackberry for young people. Or the Hasbro/Tiger Clueless Organizer [hasbro.com], version 2.0.
It's about time for the toy companies to move into the phone space.
Cloudy with a chance of meatheads. (Score:2)
So now they'll ask: "How do I get photos off 'the clou
So this doesn't run Flash either (Score:2)
Oh for... (Score:2)
According to a Microsoft official the phones are named Kin because they 'knit together...
Knit together, huh? C'mere you!
(sounds of a Microsoft offical being violent slapped about)
OK, what does it mean again?
kindred spirits.'
Oh dear, oh dear.
(more sounds of a Microsoft offical being violent slapped about)
Are you trying to amuse me? Does "kin" seem funny to you?
It says "you turn me on" inside the package
(blank stare)
OK. Rocko! Slab! Take this guy outside and give him the extended lesson.
So, how DO you get photos off the phone? (Score:3, Interesting)
"Onboard storage, however, is not the point, according to Microsoft executives. In fact, both phones serve as a portal to the cloud, storing photos, videos and other data on the network, rather than on the phone. Neither phone, for example, has an SD card slot, executives said. 'Thousands of customers walk into our stores every month and ask us, how do I get photos off this phone?' said John Harrobin, Verizon's vice president of digital media.'"
Oooh, "portal to the cloud." Well, then, that answers all criticism.
The younger generation just totally gets putting their pictures in the cloud. Verizon will transmit and store them for free. The cloud storage will be accessible to, compatible with, and interoperable with with their friends' iPhones. The risque pictures they upload will be secure and private. The concept of storing them in an SD card is way too technical for the target market to comprehend. Not.
'Kin hell (Score:2)
Don't they see the obvious joke you can make with the name?
Microsoft have some of the most talentless branding and marketing people in the world.
They call their OS Windows (it has windows) and their Office suite Office.
I'm amazed this phone isn't called Microsoft Child Phone or something.
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Why Android is "more for the social-network user" compared to WinMo?
Oh, and you can tether with both iPhone and Android.
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Because, let's be honest, they do a much better job and social-networking functions then WinMo, what they don't do better is an all around Mobile business platform.
Do you mean the fact that WinMo development tools are more enterprise-centric (SQL sync, datasets, drag & drop RAD UI designer, all that stuff)?
Because, feature-wise at least, I don't see why an Android phone couldn't be use in the same fashion.
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Different Android phones - there's more than one! - are marketed differently. E.g. if you look at Nexus One, it's all about the geeky crowd (which is why I got one).
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The phone takes 720p HD video. It also has speakers and so I'm going to make a wild ass guess here and suggest that it plays MP3s also.
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If anything kills them, it's the MS connection.
Why would the tween-teen market give a damn about the geek's distate for anything Microsoft?
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Why would the tween-teen market give a damn about the geek's distate for anything Microsoft?
It's not just the tween-teen market - The market in general doesn't give a damn about geekdom's hate on for "M$." Hell, I read /. regularly, and even I'm astounded at the amount of energy the /. universe puts into hating M$. If only they could put that energy into getting a haircut, some nice shoes and meeting a girl...
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So why would a teen get an iPhone
Because iPhones are cool, and kids want to be cool and have cool stuff. It really is that simple. Different example, from a few decades ago: Levis 501 jeans with the red tag were the only cool, acceptable jeans in my school. Wearing something like Toughskins [associatedcontent.com] from Sears would get you laughed at, and possibly beaten just for the fun of it because there was a reasonable certainty that the kid in them was a lot less tough than the jeans themselves.
...
I shudder at the memories
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It's at least "Ryan Seacrest"
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I feel disconnected when I forget my phone when I go to the bathroom. A full weekend? I'd probably kill myself.
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Microsoft already has an app store for windows mobile. This isn't the win phone 7 / iphone / android / blackberry market.
In other words, Microsoft is entering into the "feature phone / messaging phone / multimedia phone" market. Prior to this, they've only been making a smart phone OS.