Google's Nexus One, a Steal At $49 Unlocked? 311
gjt writes "I initially posted a piece ragging on the Nexus One. But then a commenter pointed out a problem with my initial logic, and after doing some math I concluded that the $529 unlocked/unsubsidized Google Nexus One gPhone is much cheaper than it appears to be. In fact it's only $49 over two years — and that's unlocked! Google likes to say that the Nexus One represents 'Our new approach to buying a mobile phone.' But it actually seems as though T-Mobile deserves most of the credit by providing a $20/month discount to customers who purchase an unsubsidized phone, a fact that didn't seem to get much attention when T-Mobile created the plan last October."
Oh god (Score:5, Insightful)
So, the real cost of an unlimited everything plan is $99.99/mo for subsidized phone buyers. Compare that to the $79.99/mo plan for unsubsidized buyers and that’s a $20/mo savings. Over two years, that’s a whopping $480 savings.
So, $529 – $480 yields a final purchase price of just $49!
Except that the phone is still $529! You're just buying the most expensive package available and think you're saving money, which makes no sense.
Everything in Europe has been traditionally unlocked and unsubsidized phones. You buy the phone and then you get a subscription from your favorite operator. They have added the subsidized option but almost no one buys his/her phone like that. It's just stupid, which the article writer seems to have "discovered" here.
Re:Oh god (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Oh god (Score:5, Funny)
Sounds like we are married to the same woman.
Re:Oh god (Score:5, Funny)
So am I. That cheating whore.
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she must have bought it with 40% off, told you it was 20%, and kept the difference :-)
Re:Oh god (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Oh god (Score:5, Funny)
Think of a wife as an PCIx16 slot. You give it resources, it makes things look pretty, takes care of a lot of ridiculous details that you wouldn't otherwise care that much about, and occasionally overheats and gets bitchy about your configuration.
Some really high-end cards allow you to spawn whole new processes, and that's worth the price of the upgrade.
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Do you REALLY want us to guess?
Re:Oh god (Score:5, Funny)
Married men understand the principal better.
Indeed, that's why I've stopped asking my wife to come to parent-teacher conferences.
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But it's 20% OFF!!!
No honey, we can't buy it because it's too expensive and we don't need it!
Now, Can we keep this off of Slashdot please?
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Tested this theory and it doesn't work. (Tested on wife and girlfriends; none reciprocated in any appreciable manner. 'Treat them mean keep them keen' works much better on a universal basis.
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Re:It's fuzzy math (Score:4, Interesting)
I understand it this way: If you buy too cheap, you may have to buy the same thing of kind again in the future when it breaks, or turns out to be not good enough for your needs.
For instance, my recent experiences with that:
1. I bought a high end point and shoot camera before going on vacation. Took me about 2 days to realize that it still wasn't good enough, and that I couldn't make it better by putting another lens on it, because they're not interchangeable. Now I have a DSLR and am much happier with the results. It's a midrange sort so it could be better still, but with a DSLR I have enough flexibility that I almost never happen to be in a situation that a better camera would make something significantly better. That was a waste of money on the P&S.
2. Some time ago I bought a fairly high end phone... with a T9 keyboard. It was capable of fairly decent web browsing, and could run applications, but was utter horror to type anything with. I'd have been much better off with something with a real keyboard. I could have got that for $50 more. In hindsight that was a waste. Now I have a N900 and couldn't be happier.
3. I tried VIA's MiniITX boards as a way of having a "cheap server". Turned out to be anything but, because it was horribly unreliable, so after months of fighting with it, it now sits in the closet.
So, overall, buying too cheap often turns out expensive, when the cheap product isn't good enough and has to be replaced. Then you end up buying two things instead of one.
Re:Oh god (Score:5, Informative)
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If the phone is locked can you use it in a different country without restrictions? Can you buy a SIM in a different country and use that SIM while you are away? If not, there are good reasons to buy an unlocked phone.
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No. Locked phone = no SIM swapping, neither at home nor abroad. One exception: MVNO that use your original provider's network, but that's not very interesting.
I don't know about the rest of Europe, but the law in France forces the operator to unlock your phone for free after 6 months (or for a fee up to € 65 before). So the locked phone issue only exists for the first 6 months of a contract (you've got to request the unlock, though). I always keep a previous phone, just in case.
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I have no clue in what country you life but I assure that everything in the Benelux + Germany is locked. You get the phone for 'free' and a laptop or in some cases even a car.... but the phone is locked and your contract too. Almost nobody buys a phone here (unlocked for the full price) and then goes to see which provider is best. Wouldn't make sense either, all the providers have equal coverage and price difference's are small.
Things must have changed since 2001 when I (and most soldiers I knew) bought cell phones at full price and then got SIM cards for D2, etc.
I moved to italy and it was the same deal. I really liked the european cell-phone system... I miss it...
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BS, I am using Vodafone pre-paid cards on an unlocked phone without a contract in Germany...
Re:Oh god (Score:5, Informative)
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"I have no clue in what country you life but I assure that everything in the Benelux + Germany is locked."
I live in Benelux (the lux part) and I had never any locked phone.
Actually I bought my unlocked iPhone in Belgium where you could get them before I could get them at home. (locked or unlocked)
All the phones in the shops have both prices displayed, locked and unlocked.
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Especially in the larger cities it's easy to find a small shop that for a small fee will unlock just about any phone and there's nothing illegal about it.
Because I feel it's giving me more software freedom than a Droid I'm looking at a Nokia N900 right now, not as a phone but purely as a mini computer with the option of VOIP, it's all over the place, unlocked and for about €550.00.
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Well, in regards to Poland - you're wrong. Era (our t-mobile) sells the phones unlocked by default, same thing with Plus and the new Play network.
The only backwards network that doesn't do this is orange, but that's because it's owned by a frenchie monopolist.
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Actually, lately a few things like O2 Germany's "My Handy" have popped up, where they sell subsidized phones for decent rates (480€ over 24 months instead of 430€ up front for a Motorola Milestone, for instance... or at least those were the rates when I got mine). The phones are all completely unlocked, and, as far as I know, unbranded.
This is far from the norm, but schemes like it seem to be gaining speed...
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This is the new, improved, Slashdot 2.0: Now SFW, and certified to be wholesome by honest and genuine Care Bears.
Re:Oh god (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, the more sensible comparison is $2,579 for the subsidized phone+contract, and $2,449 for the unsubsidized phone+contract.
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^ this.
Re:Oh god (Score:5, Informative)
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Everything in Europe has been traditionally unlocked and unsubsidized phones.
For a long time, I didn't even understand why /. is so hung up about phone plans. "Why don't you just buy a prepay one?"
Feature phones (Score:3, Informative)
For a long time, I didn't even understand why /. is so hung up about phone plans. "Why don't you just buy a prepay one?"
I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with the fact that Slashdot is hosted and operated in the United States for the primary benefit of readers in the United States [slashdot.org]. The handsets sold in big-box stores in the United States for use with prepaid plans in the United States are still locked to one provider, and they're feature phones rather than smartphones. Feature phones tend to have fewer apps because 1. there isn't a lot of CPU power, and 2. BREW is even more restrictive than Apple's App Store.
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I don't think that's his point. The first time I heard how mobile stuff is done in US I was really surprise too, actually I'm still even a bit.
Another thing that the separation of phone devices and service establishes is that in case I have multiple devices, be that either multiple phones or for example phone+3G dongle, I can just go to my phone company's site and click a button to request additional sim card for free. I can use them all at the same time and they're all under same contract (and for example
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"Why don't you just buy a prepay one?"
Prepay doesn't have data.
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Prepay doesn't have data.
AT&T GoPhone. A ludicrous $0.01/KB if you don't buy a block of data, but you can buy a 100MB block that lasts up to 30 days for $19.99 (and if you buy another block of data before the 30 days is up, any unused amount from your previous block will roll over), as well as a 1MB block for $4.99. I use it with my unlocked Nokia E71, and it works great. While 100MB isn't much, I don't use my phone's data connection as if it were my primary internet connection; 100MB typically lasts me 2 or 3 months.
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I have prepaid, I have excellent credit, and I do use my phone (though I suppose by a lot of people's standards it's barely using it). Over the course of 4 years, my highest monthly usage has been about 130 minutes and my lowest is about 25 minutes, so my monthly "bill" ranges from $2.50 to $13.00, with $4-6 being typical. My wife also has the same setup, and her typical usage is around $13-$15 a month. Our highest combined monthly usage over the 4 years was about $26/month total.
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Perhaps, but T-Mobile is, as far I know, the only US carrier which gives any discount for unsubsidized buyers
Thank our lobbyist fueled legislature for that
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The URL would be t-mobile.com.
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As far as I can tell, it's the no-contract "Even More Plus" (which appear to be $10 less than the 2-year term ones) and you choose the free SIM card instead of a phone.
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unlocked phones in the USA are always expensive. nothing new there.
lets see...
$5.99 x 12 = $71.88 / year for full data
VS
$39.99 x 12 = $479,88 / year for full data
sure, i save a few hundred on teh cost of the device via subsidization but in that year i just increased my overall data service charges by $400. and we wonder why america is hurt
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Same deal here. I had that crappy T-Zones plan for my old RAZR which I barely used, but now that I got a Nexus One I'm suddenly glad I had it for all these years!
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Where exactly in Europe are you talking about because it's the complete opposite in the UK where everyone gets a phone with their 1 or 2 year contract. Another person mentioned it is the same in Germany too. This would seem to invalidate your "everything in Europe claim".
The only place I know where people buy the Phone and then a contract is in my homeland of Thailand.
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And in EU you pay full price of the device. If you buy it without contract that is. What is this novice concept in USA that everyone's so freaked out about? You buy a phone, you pay its retail price. It's normal.
I do realise it'll take years for people (of USA) to realise that their phones cost much more than they paid [when they renewed the contract].
There are two plans at T-Mobile. One is when you get cheap phone, you pay $99 all unlimited. Or (!) you get identical T-Mobile plan for only $79 ($20 less
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Re:Oh god (Score:5, Insightful)
Speak for yourself.
In Germany, almost everybody bought subsidized phones until maybe 1-2 years ago. But you always had the option to buy a unsubsidized phone. Which still was unlocked. (I have yet so see a single locked phone or offer in Germany.)
Luckily, nowadays, the prepaid options available are so great (e.h. blau), that there is no point in buying a subsidized one with a plan, unless you need one of those flat-rate deals where you pay nothing to call others in the same net (usually BASE & re-branded clones of it, or a local dealer like Alice).
And with even the “candybar” Nokia 5800 costing only than 250€, it’s possible to buy a phone just like that.
By the way: Wouldn’t you get a N900 for $529? With keyboard, Debian Linux / Maemo, etc?
Re:Oh god (Score:4, Interesting)
I would if I didn't mind carrying around a brick in my pocket all day. For that matter, for $529 I can get a decent 15" laptop. As-is, I'm very happy with my unlocked Nexus One. It's the only phone out there that's better than an iPhone, IMO. Of course, if you require a keyboard, the Motorola Droid is the way to go.
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Reading that without "Basement" is a lot funnier... ;)
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I don't know from which European country you come, but in the Netherlands in has always been locked and subsidized phones.
The first mobile phone I ever bought back in 1998, back when GSM was brand new, was locked and subsidized and so has every other new mobile phone since then.
You can buy unsubsidized and unlocked in the Netherlands too, but it's pretty much the same deal as in the US; pay more. The norm is still subsidized and locked.
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Actually depends on where you live in europe...
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:O Check your email, we're doing this. I'll call some VC people, you call cell providers and see if we can get a bulk discount. We're going to make millions!
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You can pay a $530 up front and save $480 equalling $50 or pay $180 up front and then another $480 over two years equalling $660.
Your math is wrong, since you are subtracting $480 from one scenario and adding $480 to the other.
You either subtract $480 from one or add $480 to the other, but not both.
This post [slashdot.org] has the correct math.
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That is only of course if you're going for the most expensive $99/month plan. Pick any other and it's not so anymore. And in both cases the total costs will be around $2,500 for two years.
Crock (Score:5, Informative)
$49 as in "$529 + $1680 is only $2160 +$49."
That's not quite $49, and not even getting into the issue of NPV (net present value).
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$49 as in "$529 + $1680 is only $2160 +$49."
That's not quite $49, and not even getting into the issue of NPV (net present value).
If your bank is paying 0.4% apr like mine, NPV is pretty flat these days.
Different math (Score:5, Funny)
Dear poster,
Your math is unlike my math. I have concluded that your math sounds like something a statistician would produce to justify something completely ass backwards.
Sincerely,
John Q Public
I found the 'defective by design' aspect (Score:4, Insightful)
What was that about not being evil again?
Re:I found the 'defective by design' aspect (Score:5, Insightful)
In other news, in the real world, adding chips to a design doesn't just cost component + assembly costs. It also increases the size of the device, and possibly the power consumption (though these can probably be put into a low enough power mode that it doesn't matter).
Making the device larger and heavier isn't something that's done lightly. Sure, this would only add a little bit, but *any* individual feature only adds a little bit. You have to draw a line somewhere.
That said, I'd like it better if it supported more networks, too...
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since you're not a radio and hardware engineer, I guess it's not obvious to you that putting antennas and electronics for different frequencies does cost board space. It's not impossible but it's hard on a small phone and definitely more money.
Yes, I'd also love a phone that does it all, but they aren't exactly common. It's not just HTC, it's pretty much everyone.
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Especially if you look at the HTC Imagio on Verizon it is a worldwide phone that can use both CDMA and GSM bands. The GSM bands are locked in the US but if you call verizon and tell them you are going traveling you can get an unlock code so you can use it with pretty much any provider. So the only reason the nexus is locked down is insistence from T-mobile or Google.
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Adding support for these extra bands costs something. Either higher price, heavier, bigger, or some other feature was left out to accommodate the extra radio hardware. There are entirely legitimate reasons for HTC and Google to leave this feature out.
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The HTC HD2 is a worldwide phone and is thinner than the iphone, so it is likely they have the space.
How does this work? (Score:3, Interesting)
On the other hand one can buy the phone and the same two year cost will be about the same. This would be the reasonable thing to do as you would not incur the wrath of the Google termination fee.
I don't even know why anyone would by a Nexus 1, since one can get a no contract phone from T-Mobile for much less and have the same fee.
I wonder if Google is setting such high prices to keep the cell companies happy, or if they are actually so inefficient that they can't market the phone for less.
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if people really were looking to save money, they'd:
1. call tmobile and get the tzone's $5.99 plan (some social hacking is involved since they claim it does not exist but it does.. you just gotta push).
2. buy the phone unlocked
3. have an unlimited data plan that works on an unlocked iPhone, Blackberry and any Android phone
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So the ancient 528MHz chip (with a few small modifications, IIRC) that's been in use since the HTC Diamond is supposed to be comparable to the Snapdragon in the Nexus? What have you been smoking?
Don't get me wrong, the TP2 is a great device with a decent keyboard and pretty much _the_ WinMo work phone right now, but in terms of processing power, the Nexus won't even blink before throwing the TP2 off a cliff...
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boo, advertising (Score:2, Interesting)
"...T-Mobile deserves most of the credit..." (Score:4, Funny)
Not possible. T-Mobile is a cellphone company and therefor irredeemably evil. They cannot possibly deserve any credit for anything. I'm sure someone will explain how it is all really a plot to deprive you of your inalienable human right to unlimited free downloads and uncapped infinite bandwidth.
The RIAA is behind it. Mark my words.
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If you buy the phone for 529 you do not get on a contract. You simply pay a monthly fee and quit when you want to. There can be no ETF as nothing is subsidized.
Innumeracy ! (Score:2)
... even here at SlashDot, society is infested with the innumerates! Arrrrh!
A DISCOUNT cannot be applied to a purchase price until/unless it is clear of other conditions. In this case, a 24 month service "contract".
The $20/mo can only be considered if the contract price is fully competitive with the offer you would otherwise take. Personally, I consider $60-75/mo utterly outrageous. The $20/mo makes them slightly less outrageous, but still usurous. I have a nice grandfathered sweet deal at $2-4/mo, bu
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Enough of this promotion shit! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm getting sick of so much promotion for a device that doesn't deserves it and that is taking so much space and time on the web.
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Phones are the new stuff in the IT world. In 10 years, traditional desktops and laptops will be much less common, and most people will use phones (really, handheld computers that also make phone calls) and tablets. And hopefully glasses with heads-up displays.
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You must be new here.
There's a unwritten, unspoken rule that everyday on slashdot, there has to be at a bare minimum:
1 Microsoft story about how bad it is.
1 Google story about how great it is.
1 Linux story about how this year will be its year on the desktop.
1 Apple story about how lame their newest product is.
These are the four tenets of Slashdot if you will, the four pillars upon which all else stands. As for T-Mobile, AT&T, Amazon, and everybody else, they're all just along for the ride.
More promotion, please! Drown me in ads! (Score:5, Insightful)
Aren't you guys tired of reading all the time the same big-brother phone-ad "news" on slashdot?
I'm not.
I'm in fact really happy that there were good discussions about the Nokia N900 phone---otherwise I wouldn't have known about the existence of a smartphone which (supposedly) delivers exactly what I want: a pocket computer I can tinker with.
Being told that the thing I've been wanting for ten years finally exists is something I'm actually happy about. Was Nokia involved behind the scenes? Were they trying to push their product? Why would I care---I want the product at the price it's offered at.
Just like the other day where I was shopping for a scarf. The sales clerk notified me they had socks for sale. I tried a pair on, liked it, found the price reasonable, and I needed more socks, so I bought some. Yes, he applied a sales technique on me, and it worked. So what? His pitch didn't artificially inflate my need for socks, it told me "you can get what you want, and here's how: [...]".
And a while back I was looking for some stickers for my Rubik's cube. One of Google's advertisers had exactly what I wanted, at a price I liked.
Advertisements aren't that bad. It's just that 99% give all the good ones a bad name ;-)
That is to say: yeah, I see a lot of ads I'd rather be without. But every once in a while, someone seeks me out wanting to sell me something, and it just so happens that I, before engaging with them, have a desire to buy what I then discover they sell.
If I like the transaction, why shouldn't I like being brought in contact with the other side of it?
And hey, if you don't like the headlines, you don't have to read the summary. And if you don't like the summary, you don't have to read the discussion. And you never have to read the article (see, I'm not new here).
3G phone without 3G? (Score:2)
Not $49, but $2449 (Score:5, Insightful)
According to the FTA, he is paying $529 for the phone, plus $80 per month for an unlimited plan = $1920 over two years, total = $2449. That is the cost of the phone.
So paying now is an advantage over paying later? (Score:3, Informative)
This is bullshit. Not only do consumers prefer to pay later, fucking accountants prefer to pay later. Corporations prefer to pay later.
Apple tried this with the iPhone, too. The original iPhone was unsubsidized. People HATED it.
The subsidy is great because it makes it possible to buy an iPhone for $99 instead of a crappy feature phone. The extra $20 per month on the contract is offset by the fact that you're using a smartphone, it pays for itself. You make more sales or get a better job or save time or money compared to when you didn't have a smartphone.
STOP APOLOGIZING FOR ANDROID. It sucks and it won't get better until the people who use it demand that it get better. Google bought Android in 2005. Where are the results? iPad is going to ship with a $15 data plan and Skype calls, that is what was promised from the Google Phone. And iPad with 3G and 16GB is only $50 more than Nexus One.
Re:So paying now is an advantage over paying later (Score:5, Insightful)
"Not only do consumers prefer to pay later"
Says who? I always pay now instead of later so that I can avoid any debts that I may not be able to pay off. Paying later is what got us into the whole economical crisis in the first place.
Gah! What twisted logic! (Score:5, Insightful)
Good Grid! Does this guy actually think I am going to try to follow this spaghetti of weird math? "If you think about it, subtracting THIS amount if you get THAT option is almost like you could think of it as though you were saving THIS much beyond the discount with THIS OTHER option..."
Give me an effin' break!
Here is a hint for the author of TFA: when comparing costs, you don't need to subract ANYTHING. All you do is add.
Show me a simple chart:
Phone A with plan A costs THIS MUCH over two years. (Upfront cost + monthly charge over 2 years = total. No need to get any fancier.)
Phone B with plan A costs THIS MUCH over two years.
Phone A with plan B costs THIS MUCH over two years.
Phone B with plan B costs THIS MUCH over two years.
And so on. That's all it takes. I don't need to subract anything from anything and I don't need to "think of it as though" I were saving anything. I can just look at the damned chart and see what everything costs.
Jesus. Is this guy some kind of professional writer? Can I have his job?
Seriously, this is much too complicated... (Score:5, Insightful)
The pricing plans are so convoluted, someone claiming to be an expert cannot even get the math right.
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Are they really charging *more* for the same service if you bring your own phone?
That is utterly insane BS, although about what I would expect from my past dealings with US mobile phone companies. Why in the hell do people put up with that?
Re:Obviously this person is not financially litera (Score:5, Informative)
I think you've got the plans backwards. Tmobile is discounting the unsubsidized plans $20 (basically, you are making up the subsidy in $20 increments over the life of the contract).
$179 + $99.99 * 24 = $179 + 2399.76 = $2578.76 Subsidized
$529 + $79.99 * 24 = $529 + $1919.76 = $2448.76 Unsubsidized
Difference is $130 in favor of the unsubsidized.
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So subsidizing is basically T-mobile giving you a $350 loan where you pay back $20 per month for 24 months.
If I'm not wrong the interest rate on this loan is 32.4% ?
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I Did. and i freakin love it! (Score:3, Interesting)
google's release of the Nexus One is more of a raising the bar for other android hardware makers and in turn they didn't expect to sell tons of units or set the world on fire. rather, they are making other android handset makers step up their game to compete. plus, they can also test their device on a smaller carrier prior to unleashing it into the large boys like verizon and at&t.
just my .02 like always (cuz you know with the in
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I got one too and I love it. I'm not at all surprised about the low sales so far though, there's been no marketing. I'm guessing they wanted to start slow to work out the kinks and once it hits Verizon they'll probably step up the marketing and it will take off.
That's not a choice... (Score:5, Informative)
The Nexus One (like all Android phones) is data-hungry. It wants a 3G signal to perform well. EDGE sucks so bad you woild give the phone back.
Since there may not be ANY phone sold in the US that does 3G on both AT&T and T-Mobile, your choice of Android phone pretty much determines which carrier you use - you don't want to buy a Nexus One for use on AT&T, since it will be a slow data phone. Ditto for buying an iPhone 3G or 3GS to use on T-Mobile. It will be slow and disappointing.
Locking GSM data-intensive phones in the US is pointless, and a complete lie. If you want a 3G phone, your carrier determines which phone you buy. For now, anyways.
Now, when there is a 3G 'smartphone', Android or not, that can handle both A&T and T-Mobile 3G, then locking becomes important again. But for now, Android GSM phones need not be locked, and smart people at the carriers know this. They just go along as they always have, cause it makes sense to most of us.
On the CDMA side, it's more interesting.
In Europe, it seems GSM is pretty compatible. And locking is not a viable business model there.
So if you buy a locked Android phone, you know at least one party doesn't get it.
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>Now, when there is a 3G 'smartphone', Android or not, that can handle both A&T and T-Mobile 3G, then locking becomes important again.
The next version of the Android will support both of them and will support CDMA. I figure by then it'll be on a second hardware revision or at least a second or third radio firmware and be safe to buy.
>EDGE sucks so bad you woild give the phone back.
Funny how the first iphone was EDGE only. It sold pretty well. While I wouldnt wish EDGE on my worst enemy, its funny
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T-Mobile can be alright if you're careful (although the coverage is not seamless).
I bought an unlocked phone in Europe for EUR 49, and use T-mobile cards in the States, where I spend about 8 months a year.
I have no land-line, and yet I spend less than $50 every quarter on phone cards. Skype and Skype-to-go really help cut down costs.