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Are Sat-Nav Systems Becoming Information Overload? 186

curtS writes "The Economist's tech editor reviews the ever-more-detailed assistance of mobile GPS devices, and wonders if the attention-sucking visual complexity isn't more trouble than it's worth. He contrasts the simplicity of London's Underground map (not directionally accurate but visually easy to understand) and his own habit of dimming the display and using the audio commands for guidance."
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Are Sat-Nav Systems Becoming Information Overload?

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  • .no (Score:3, Funny)

    by Dance_Dance_Karnov ( 793804 ) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @01:30PM (#30423520) Homepage
    no more than a map I suppose
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      I would argue that. Rand McNally road atlases were my constant companion for years. It's hard to recall how my internal mapping and/or memory of Rand McNally evolved in the first couple years - but today, I can navigate anywhere on the North American continent (minus Mexico) without a map. I can leave my house, and go to any major city without referencing a map at all. Some small town, I don't know of? Ten minutes with that atlas, and I can drive to it without looking again. To find an address, I'll c

      • by cdrudge ( 68377 )

        Those GPS things? Personally, I don't like them - they want to hold your hand all the way across the continent. Every turn, every fuel stop, every restaurant. When I travel, I want to make the decisions, not have MapQuest, or anyone else decide which ramp to exit or enter the interstate on. Travel is supposed to be an adventure - let me decide when, where, and how.

        They only hold your hand as much as you let them. If you chose to follow their directions for every turn, that's your choice. If you only want

      • (Score:5, Interesting)

        by FrigBot ( 1459361 ) * on Sunday December 13, 2009 @04:37PM (#30424806)

        In May and June this year, I went to Germany and Holland with my father. We rented an Audi with a GPS built in. It was a gift from the gods of navigation. Without it we would have been totally inept, and neither of us had used one before. I generally ran the nav system while he drove (because I picked up the fine points of the system quicker than he did).

        One day, in Germany on the Autobahn (can't remember exactly where right now but I do have notes on it) there was a huge traffic jam. I had no idea that traffic there gets like that. But everything was backed up. People shut off their cars and got out to chat. Nobody was moving, in either direction. Remember this is the Autobahn.

        Anyway, two notable things happened. We decided to follow a small group of cars that were driving on the shoulder and trying to find a way out. This was probably illegal, but whatever. After getting off the main highway, we wound up alone somewhere. Check the GPS, we found exactly where we were (with the traffic lady letting us know that noone was moving) and it was one a dirt road. I zoomed in on the map, found the next nearest hamlet and we navigated there. Then I did that again and again, and we drove through about a dozen tiny villages. It was amazing. We saw old buildings that no tourist ever sees, and some had scars in them, maybe from WW2. Got to see a lot of neat things.

        Later, back on the main highway, we were stopped at a light or something and the kid in the car behind us jumped out, came to my window and asked for directions to some town he was trying to reach. I used the gps and gave him what he needed. That was cool too.

        GPS is not distracting. I found it very helpful. Witout it we never would have seen those off-the-beaten path villages.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          I'll see your European anecdote and raise you one. In 2005 I spent 4 weeks driving around Europe with my wife and parents. We had no GPS, but plenty of maps. We were able to find our way into and out of all sorts of out of the way places. The only trouble was trying to meet one cousin where we were waiting on one side of the freeway and he was waiting on the other side.

          Now, I've always been good with maps, have a good sense of direction, and a good spacial sense. Not everyone is good with maps or navig

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by PitaBred ( 632671 )
            "However if you were just blindly following its directions, you might still be sitting on the autobahn."

            And if you're that kind of person, it doesn't matter what kind of map you're following. GPS is nice because it knows where you are. Maps, you have to figure that out. Admittedly, it's not hard and should be a skill you have, but why do all your division longhand if you have a calculator?
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          As not_my_name says - you seem to fit into a special group. Far to many people RELY on that GPS to tell them everything. Maybe if I were a bit younger - or, maybe if I were navigating Europe instead of North America - I might make similar use of GPS as you did. Or not. I might have the GPS in the car, but an atlas would still be spread across the passenger seat. Among other things, I want to "feel" how far away it is to the Italian border, or the Russian border, or the English Channel. That big map of

          • Driving alone? (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Scyber ( 539694 )

            I might have the GPS in the car, but an atlas would still be spread across the passenger seat.

            In your situation I might agree. However for me the choice is either use GPS or have my wife reading the map. Needless to say, GPS wins. ;)

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Techman83 ( 949264 )
          GPS for me came in handy in a recent 4x4 adventure, we had been using paper maps and just following our noses along the track until my Fiancé required urgent medical attention, now I didn't have one, but one of the other guys that was with us did, so whilst I was calling for an Ambulance, he was calling through our current location and best meeting point for the Ambulance over the 2 way. It was rather comforting that we didn't need to stop and work out where exactly we were or where we needed to be (we
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by adolf ( 21054 )

        I like maps, too. I like to look at them, I like to connect the dots. I like the little bits of random knowledge that I pick up in doing so. My Dad taught me how to read a map before I even learned how to read English.

        But I hate using maps when driving. In the car, I find them cumbersome, verbose, generally annoying, and difficult to remember.

        To top it all off, I get lost very easily, for whatever reason. Back in the day, I used to even get lost at school. (Hey, we've all got problems.)

        So, I use GPS.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by dov_0 ( 1438253 )
      I find maps far less distracting, far less annoying and generally far more useful. Personally, I never really trust anything with a womans voice that gives directions...
  • In vast majority of cases you drive in known area; always the same route, more or less. I don't see how GPS helps here. Any possible setbacks due to choosing slightly wrong way are more than offset by the elasticity in choosing better way due to momentary traffic conditions.

    Not sure how representative this part is, but - when NOT driving in known area I'm always never in a real hurry. In few cases when that might be true it's easy to pre-plan it...or even ask somebody along the way / make a quick phonecall

    • by jcrb ( 187104 )

      The problem is when you ARE in a hurry... because you are in fast moving traffic, or you have to decide if THIS is the street you are supposed to turn on or its the next street. For such situations I find that only fully accurate maps AND a GPS receiver that isn't lagging 2 seconds behind or not able to figure out that they street it says is 300 feet ahead is actually the one that I am stopped at the light of work.

      I do very much like the voice instructions, particularly when they give a sequence, e.g. "that

      • by sznupi ( 719324 )

        It's still a bit "fuzzy" though; never mind wondering if, perhaps, when you have to turn in fast moving traffic it's usually some main road with proper, big signs; or when that particular street similar to every other matters you're close to destination anyway. I'm stressing more "are you really in such a hurry?". Which is more of a problem in itself; probably a lot reckless driving stems from people who "must get there sooner!" (and who knows if always relying on GPS doesn't contribute to late departure or

    • Getting lost in European cities can mean a 15km drive to get back on track, when all left turns are forbidden for several km or after the wrong exit on the roundabout you're right on a freeway that has no option of stopping or turning for quite some time.

      If you're on holiday, rent a GPS or take a GPS-phone with Open Street Maps with you. It will certainly save some headaches, hours of searching and confusion when overpasses become underpasses, tall buildings obstruct all possible landmarks and reading the d

      • by sznupi ( 719324 )

        I live in the EU...

        (though, to be fair, my judgment might be influenced by the thing that I have a big chance to be exposed either to Polish roads, which are an example of chaotic, highly complex system requiring trained wetware (with GPS maps often lagging a bit), or German ones with their supposed...perfection)

        • by Sique ( 173459 )

          When I was bicycling Poland several times about 20 years ago (1988 and 1989), we coined the term "polish kilometer", because the distance to the next town was more a rough estimate than everything else.

          It could happen that the distance shown on the road signs was varying 2-3 km, and that the last "(Next Village) 2 km" sign was just in sight of the actual village limit sign.

          • by sznupi ( 719324 )

            AFAIK the nomenclature was (is?) often to post distances to centers / particular point in given locality, no matter from which direction you are approaching.

            When applied without much thought to typical PL village (which often was more or less a long chain of houses along one road, as you surely remember), this could cause such discrepancies.

    • or even ask somebody along the way / make a quick phonecall to known local resident when close to destination and lost (also - they, or other people who often travel the route you are planning to take, know much more than GPS: which way is more pleasant)

      Yeah, my friends love when I do that at 3am. More of a nuisance when I'm driving somewhere where I don't know anybody, and quite often don't speak the language. Just because GPS doesn't suit your lifestyle doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't be using it.

      • by sznupi ( 719324 )

        Where are you hurrying at 3am, when nobody is waiting for you at the destination area?

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by digitig ( 1056110 )
          Generally, a bed is waiting for me in the destination area, and I would like to get some sleep before the morning meeting rather than spend the night driving around the one-way street system in some foreign city.
  • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <> on Sunday December 13, 2009 @01:36PM (#30423562) Homepage Journal

    Then you probably shouldn't be driving. Take the bus.

    • by BeardedChimp ( 1416531 ) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @01:52PM (#30423670)
      Reminds me of this. []
      "Since a road closure, dozens of drivers have blithely followed directions from their satellite navigation systems, not realising that the recommended route goes through the ford.
      Normally the water — the start of the River Avon — is about 2ft deep but it can swiftly double in depth after heavy rain.
      Every day since the main B4040 was closed after a wall collapsed on April 8 one or two motorists have been towed out, having either failed to notice or ignored warning signs. Some farmers have been charging £25 to give a tow with tractors."
    • by supernova87a ( 532540 ) < minus language> on Sunday December 13, 2009 @02:29PM (#30423930)
      By the way, just a tip for everyone -- I've found that ironically the bus is actually where a GPS makes the biggest improvement in knowing how to get around.

      If you're in an unfamiliar city, buses (in contrast to trains) often have a frustratingly indescribable and unpredictable route/stop pattern, and when the driver/announcement system is of no help, a GPS system in your hand will help you figure out exactly how close you are to your destination, and when to get off the bus.

      I no longer dread dealing with buses because of this capability, although the lurching stop/start of buses in general still drives me crazy. Try it sometime -- the small Nuvi-style units are just about as inconspicuous as an ipod, and are great for helping you get around.
      • Er... ever tried asking the bus driver to tell you when you get to the stop that's nearest to such-and-such? It works surprisingly well...

        • Just came back from Taiwan and used my GPS for precisely this, it was a late flight in and I really needed to get off at the right stop, I did not want to be wandering the streets at night.
          In this case asking the bus driver was not an option, as he spoke no English.

        • by Tynin ( 634655 )

          Er... ever tried asking the bus driver to tell you when you get to the stop that's nearest to such-and-such? It works surprisingly well...

          Until you are in a foreign country, don't speak the language well, and are meet with a driver who has no patience for the American wasting his time.

          I recently went with my wife to Germany. Our first steps around Berlin Tegel airport was to find where the Hauptbahnhof was located (translates to central train station, or something close to that). Unfortunately we didn't recall the word for hauptbahnhof at the time. We went to the advice counter in Tegel airport and asked them where we should go, they stumble

    • The thing is, I totally get what he is saying - I use a free nav app for the iPhone (and most other platforms) called Waze []. At times, the screen is lit up like a christmas tree with a thousand data points.

      But how I like to use the app, is simply as an informational display as to what is around me. So the app would be even more useful to me, if there was a mode that showed the next three streets upcoming and not much else. Kind of like he was talking about the tube map, a more logical and clearly presente

  • Headup display (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ZeroExistenZ ( 721849 ) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @01:41PM (#30423600)
    Why not a headsup display?

    My car's frontwindow angle is say 45.
    This allows me to just put my Android phone on my dashboard which reflects on the window and generates a transparent reflection which shows up in a "virtual distance" in my field of view.
    It's not as crisp to actually read while driving or being stuck in traffic and it requires low light conditions, though. But you can make up a map easily.

    • by fracai ( 796392 )

      I'd prefer not to have to read the map upside down (bottom of the phone facing is closest to me) or backwards (phone is rotated around so the top is closest to me).

      • by Yold ( 473518 )

        i think what he is saying is that the screen-image would reverse (mirrored), so the backwards text isn't a problem.

        I actually did this once with directions I printed off from the internet, and it worked OK despite the backwards text.

        If I was going to do it again, I'd make the font really big and use the "mirror image" option when I printed it. I would also put about 5 different colored bars between the directions so I could more easily find the next exit/direction.

      • Umm, in this scenario there'd have to be some engineering to start. So they just add an additional mirror to the set up and things are then looking the right direction for the driver.
    • by Rinikusu ( 28164 )

      I don't know why HUDs haven't been more widely adapted, especially in the realm of motorcycles. Granted, my motorcycle doesn't have a windscreen, but for the highway cruisers and and what-not, I would think it invaluable to keep all the important information a rider needs available without having to take eyes off the road (a split second can kill). Now integrate with gps mapping, etc and we'd have a winner.

      • motorcycle huds are very small as they can only display in a small window. what you really want, is a transparent display that can replace the visor part of the helmet.

        What would be really useful though is a wireless transmission standard so that any helmet mounted HUD unit can receive data from any nearby motorcycle. Use range limitations like bluetooth only about 2 meters though. This way helmet people can design the hardware into the helmets.

      • What would you display on a motorcycle HUD?
        • Speed is irrevalent, and you pretty much know how fast you're going from the feel of the wind anyway
        • Engine revs (tachometer) you can tell by ear, and bikes have a rev limiter anyway
        • Oil/engine temperature, oil pressure, etc. are idiot lights you'll see glowing without a HUD
        • You can see the *actual* turn signals on the bike, so a turn signal indicator is just silly
        • Fuel level isn't that useful - in general you just ride around until you hit reserve, then buy gas
        • What
        • I must try that next time I'm pulled over "Hey, pig, speed is irrelevant. So back the hell off, man, and let me get off the beaten track."

          For us bikers who don't have the pleasure of living in Buttfuck, Arizona, or wherever you're talking about, speed is relevant, and GPS is pretty damn handy for finding the nearest fuel - you know, once you hit reserve. There's more than one type of biker, although whatever motorised armchair riding leather-chap wearing "boys' club" you're in would doubtless disagree.

    • HUDs work wonderfully in military aircraft. Operators should never look into a cockpit unless absolutely necessary.

      • by kextyn ( 961845 )
        Have you ever flown a plane or even seen what the cockpits look like on military aircraft? When you're flying a plane you generally have PLENTY of time to look around outside or inside. Sure, a fighter pilot wouldn't be looking down at his screens while dogfighting or refueling but there's plenty of time to do so. Here's an example of a cockpit: F-22 Cockpit [] If they weren't supposed to look down why would they give them all those lovely displays? The HUDs on newer aircraft can show quite a bit but they
    • by mpe ( 36238 )
      Why not a headsup display?

      You'd think that would be done for regular instrements, especially the speedometer.
      • What is the technological difficulty here? I would have thought that practical, quality heads up displays would have been about as ubiquitous as in-dash navigation is now in newer cars. With the development of pico projectors, I'd kind of assume by now it would be relatively trivial to have an in-dash display augmented or replaced entirely by an image projected onto the windshield.

        Is it that complicated to make it work in the daytime or with decent quality? I would have thought they would have had a film

    • by fotbr ( 855184 )

      IIRC the Corvette has had some form of HUD for several years now, although I think it's just speed and tach readouts. And I know some of their other cars had at least an option for a HUD speedometer.

  • What the article is talking about isn't "bloat", but rather extra algorithms to remove unnecessary detail. As Pascal put it, "I made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it short." It takes more work to include only and exactly the right information.

    That's extremely hard with navigation, since leaving the wrong thing out can be worse than the original information overload.

    • by Nf1nk ( 443791 )

      The cheapo two year old GPS I have does this already (garman Nuvi 200 series). If I am 1/2 a mile from the next turn it leaves off most smaller side streets. When I get within a certain distance of the turn it shows all of the details. You need this because when you are coming into a strange inter section you do ned to see that there are two streets that are very close together and you need a third street that is hidden behind a building.

  • ...then you shouldn't have GPS. I have no problem looking at the GPS screen on my motorcycle for a split second, recognizing what I'm expected to do and then focusing back on the road again.

    Then again, my GPS display is very simple and I like it that way. I hate displays that are so complicated that you need to scan around the screen with your eyes for a few seconds to get your bearings. Those few seconds could make the difference between life and death.

    I think the real problem here, which is not bein
    • by fbjon ( 692006 )

      Then again, my GPS display is very simple and I like it that way.

      Isn't that precisely the point of the article?

  • by jdeitch ( 12598 ) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @01:58PM (#30423720) Homepage

    Just last week, here, we had a truck driver following his GPS ignore no less than EIGHT road signs saying "no trucks allowed" ...

    Then he got stuck on the train tracks (which was WHY the signs said "no trucks allowed") ... the predictable result followed, and about 24,000 lbs of pizza ingredients got scattered over a fairly good chunk of town.

    There are some people in the world who just shouldn't abandon paper.

    • There are some people in the world who just shouldn't be allowed out of the care home!
      • > There are some people in the world who just shouldn't be allowed out of the
        > care home!

        But then the three of us who should would never have time to care for them all.

  • by starglider29a ( 719559 ) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @02:06PM (#30423784)'s hard to read on my iPhone while driving!
  • by Anonymous Coward

    Personally, I use the accurate maps on a GPS device to resolve ambiguities in the directions. This is especially true in the case of unusual ramp systems on the highway.

  • The correct way to visualize information is an interesting topic and his investigation of the London underground maps is a classic example of how something can be accurate but not precise, or maybe accurate in one dimension (connection/destination) but not another (direction). That said it's a stretch to say GPS needs to follow that mode. Unlike the underground when you're being informed of where you're going and where to get off and on different trains you're actually being informed of where you are rela
  • by Bazman ( 4849 ) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @02:23PM (#30423898) Journal

    There's a storyline on Doonesbury in a studio where they are recording celebrity SatNav voice-overs. What we really need is James Earl-Jones on our SatNav. []

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by zippthorne ( 748122 )

      Yeah, but "What is thy bidding, my master?" gets pretty old after only a couple of destinations are entered, and "Your lack of faith disturbs me" is a pretty obnoxious replacement for "recalculating."

  • Until my GPS stops sending me to people's houses when looking for an IHOP I'd rather get a picture and evaluate for myself what's going on. 95%+ of the time I could just follow the directions unquestioningly and not have problems, but if there are detours, new roads or it has addresses wrong, it suddenly becomes useless unless I can use it as a map to figure out the directions for myself.

    Maybe you have to hit a button to temporarily display a map, or park the car to keep the map up- the map could stay up
  • Setting aside his argument for a second. I don't think comparing GPS maps to subway maps is in any way helpful. Subway maps don't have to be exactly geographically accurate for at least reasons:

    1. The user of the subway maps is not doing the navigating. It doesn't matter whether the next dot is 100m or 1000m away, all I need to know is to get off the next time the doors open, or that I can transfer between the red and orange line at this stop (this also applies to bus routes and train routes). When driving,
    • Subway maps don't have to be exactly geographically accurate for at least reasons

      By the time subway maps were required, mapmaking technology had improved to the point where an exact geographic representation was fairly trivial. The designer of the London tube map chose to simplify. He chose to throw things out. He chose to focus on what the riders required, and what they did not.

      GPS Map designers need to figure out how to display the required information while filtering out what isn't required.

  • by supernova87a ( 532540 ) < minus language> on Sunday December 13, 2009 @02:41PM (#30423988)
    the editor completely misunderstands the point (or misuses his/her GPS). The potential clutter of the user interface/map/traffic aside, GPS is the most dramatic simplification in driving to emerge in years -- provided you just listen to the voice prompts.

    When used correctly, this one amazing device outsources your mental burden of navigation, and presents it to you with a clear voice that lets you devote your effort to (hopefully) driving better, although obviously this has turned many people's attention elsewhere.

    If you've ever found yourself in an unfamiliar city in fast moving, dense traffic, trying to find an address, you will be grateful that you can offload your navigational workload to the GPS, which tells you clearly and plainly when to get ready to turn, in how far a distance, potentially even making it safer as you no longer swerve across 3 lanes of traffic at the last minute while looking at a paper map.

    Of course, people who use it to navigate down isolated country roads they're familiar with will never see the point, but for someone who's task-overloaded in a busy situation, listening to the GPS voice is an amazing improvement in life.
  • by awyeah ( 70462 ) * on Sunday December 13, 2009 @02:43PM (#30424002)

    My TomTom unit actually has some safety options where you can have the unit not display the realtime map - instead, it just shows a graphical representation of the next instruction (for example, a line that corners right to signify a right turn), the distance to that instruction, and the street name. I think that's really a pretty useful feature. I have it set up so that it does that whenever I'm going more than 50mph.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by 6Yankee ( 597075 )
      I need to get my dad one of those. There's nothing quite as disconcerting as barrelling down an on-ramp, accelerating through 80mph, and realising he's driving the screen...
  • ... unfolding a 2x3 foot paper map while driving?
  • >the simplicity of London's Underground map (not directionally accurate but visually easy to understand)

    This is perfectly fine and true if all you wish to do is understand the map and only the map itself. (I'm all for cyclical adirectional forms).

    While in London last week, visiting a semi-employed mathematical friend from Cambridge, I was confronted with the unusual task, probably never considered by the Underground Map's planners, of needing to travel from one point to another. (It is well-known c

    • Getting around London with the Underground was rather easy for me and I've never dealt with subways before that trip nor had I been to London (or England) before.

      Route to entrance station, route from exit station, the actual physical path in between didn't matter. And this was with the free brochure map and I didn't ask for directions.

      It did get interesting when they started shutting stations down due to some bomb threats so I had to adjust some routes on the fly but that was an issue of certain lines shutt

      • This might be fine if you know the entry and exit stations... actually, not, as you must also know the line.

        In my case, I was in London for a 48-hour stop and am minimally familiar with Central London. Briefly explained, my expectation (you might call it hope) is to be able to receive an address over the handy, look it up, and immediately leave for the destination-- central or not.

        If you have the U's trip planner online, you are of course fine. If you have a handy that can't get online (I called AT

    • Purchase a copy of the A-Z map of London (A5 book type not large fold out map). It's got real spatial maps and at the back or on the back cover has the tube map. Plus an index so you can see where tube stations are in the real world. Very handy for visiting friends etc when you're told "the nearest tube station is X" and you need to navigate the 200 metres from there. No maths degree required, average 11 year old literacy will suffice.

      I think you mistake the purpose of the tube map - it was intended to show

  • About 15 years ago, I read an article about, how scientists found out, that the human brain dramatically changed over the past 40 years (from back then, so 55 years).

    The change is, that we developed a new system, to cope with information overload.
    Old people have (or would have, if they still lived) massive problems to cope with e.g. the typical blinking and animating downtown advertisement overkill of a Asian metropolis... or the typical ad-laden website.

    We have learned to focus on one thing, and ignore all

  • Turn off the audio (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Wormholio ( 729552 ) on Sunday December 13, 2009 @05:20PM (#30425184)

    I found the audio to be distracting, whereas the video display gives me positional awareness, and I can look at it when I choose to, not when the box decides to say something. I found I was much more relaxed when I found how to turn off the audio.

    So I guess having both at the same time is the real problem.

    • Same thing here. I turn off its sound. I don't need it most of the time anyway. I can just glance at it when I need it. With the sound on, it's much more distracting. Eventually, it would be nice to set the sound only for some events at a granular level, and not others, just like Nagios does it for IT infrastructure monitoring. Break me out of my slumber only when there is unforeseen traffic up-ahead, otherwise stay quiet and don't overload me with information I do not need.
  • I rode shotgun with the tow truck driver and listened to his GPS on the dash giving him the directions to my house. There was no way he could cheat me about the mileage to my house. Granted the language that the gadget's feminine voice spoke was one I didn't readily understand (for most people, Miami is South America j/k), and I doubt that man and woma--err, machine were conspiring to bill me excess $$ for that short trip, but I remembered to glare at the driver anyway, in case he even entertained the

  • I have GPS in my phone, and it is adequate for my purposes.

    But having on on the dash running all the time is the height of gadget stupidity.

    I drive the same route to work Monday thru Friday. The guy who also does in the 2009 Challenger has his GPS unit right in the driver's side corner of the windshield. Always on.

    And the traffic delays and congestion are as predictable as the sun. Every day, unless it's a holiday week when they are only easier.

    And the DVD players in the front dash are even worse.

    Don't b

If I have not seen so far it is because I stood in giant's footsteps.