Amazon Hobbles Features For International Kindle 166
Barence writes "Amazon has stripped several key features out of the international edition of the Kindle, PC Pro has discovered. Newspapers and magazines are delivered without any photos, and the web browser has been disabled, presumably because Amazon doesn't want to foot the data bill. There's also a 40% premium on books bought via the Amazon store. 'International customers do pay a higher price for their books than US customers due to higher operating costs outside of the US,' an Amazon spokesperson confessed."
Another troll summary? (Score:5, Insightful)
1) The browser is not a "key feature" - it's barely useable and not an advertised/supported feature anyway.
2) Calling the Amazon explanation a "confession" seems a little biased...sounds quite reasonable to me to charge more if their costs are higher.
Re:Another troll summary? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Another troll summary? (Score:5, Informative)
OK what costs? Scanning/turning into an e-book?
I think distributions rights get really complicated across regions and countries. If someone owns the rights to digital distributions or all distributions of a work, Amazon's probably got to pay them a premium for their market. Just look at DVDs, I can't even by "Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence [wikipedia.org]" in the states. I would imagine selection would be vastly hobbled for several reasons across different countries. And let's not forget Germany's regulation of book prices [slashdot.org] "in an effort to protect authors, publishers, and small booksellers." There could be a lot of factors at work here--most of which are specific to a single country.
Re:Another troll summary? (Score:5, Funny)
It's amazing they let you cross borders with books in your possession. "I'm sorry, senior, but your copy of HP Lovecraft's Best is still under copyright in our country, we will have to seize it, fine you ten million pesos. As well, we see this is the third time you have tried to cross the border in such a fashion. Last time it was Shakespeare's Portfolio, which we explained to you was owned by Sony Bono's widow, and before that it was Homer's Iliad, which the Walt Disney Corporation has filed ownership for. Since this is your third violation, you will no longer be permitted to read books. Please lean back while I gouge your eyes out.,,"
What a moronic and ludicrous world IP law has created.
Re:Another troll summary? (Score:5, Interesting)
What a moronic and ludicrous world IP law has created.
IP law didn't create the world you're describing, you did.
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What a moronic and ludicrous world IP law has created.
IP law didn't create the world you're describing, you did.
In fact, you own it! And now if I wanted to create a similar story you could sue me. Wow, this is cool!
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Then this should be true also: (Score:5, Insightful)
[b]There's nothing inherently wrong with adjusting your product for the market your selling in.[/b]
Then there should be nothing inherently wrong with me buying a product in any market available to me to buy from.
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Fine and dandy, if they want to localize the product, but the interlocking laws and technical measures to enforce regionalized sales is over the top. There's nothing inherently wrong with adjusting the product for different markets, but there's nothing wrong with people going to those other markets to get a better deal either (but there can be legal trouble thanks to bought off legislators).
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Except that they don't. They're too lazy even to provide a 220v power supply for jurisdictions which use 220v, anyone who is fool enough to buy one is expected to provide their own adapter.
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But there's something inherently wrong in a consumer seeking out the cheapest price?
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The laws governing sale of a good in a jurisdiction are generally different from the laws regarding possession of that good. How is this moronic and ludicrous?
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So if I'm in the UK, why won't they let me buy content for the Kindle from the US? That's right, because they want to charge higher prices.
I spent five months in Australia earlier this year. The book market there is out of control, and I ended buying from Amazon.co.uk because it was cheaper to have them shipped from the other side of the planet. For example, the Lonely Planet guide to New Zealand was $45 in Australia. It cost me $37, include $15-20 shipping to get it from the UK. That's disgusting. Am
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Re:Another troll summary? (Score:5, Funny)
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Tax? Well perhaps, although books tend not to be taxed in the UK - who knows how ebooks will be treated though.
TFA says that EU taxes on ebooks are higher than paper books; if it's like most other VAT that's 20% right there, your $10 book becomes $12.
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Pardon me for being horribly American here, but... there the EU has a a tax on books? Why?
(Yes, I know I pay taxes on books indirectly via sales taxes)
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Pardon me for being horribly American here, but... there the EU has a a tax on books?
The EU has a tax on almost all products sold called VAT. It's similar to a sales tax though the details differ.
VAT rates are allowed to vary across the EU within certain limits and some product categories in some countries attract rates lower than the standard rate for that country.
Books generally get a reduced or sometimes even zero rate but this then requires a definition of what counts as a book. IIRC the rules on that v
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In the UK, hard copy books are exempt from VAT (sales tax). As I understand it, ebooks are not exempt. That's an immediate 15% (normally 17.5%, but we had a temporary cut for some obscure reason) on top of the price.
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Ahh, okay, that makes sense. It sounded like ebooks had a specific tax on them or something strange like that.
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Don't you remember the story a year or two ago about people importing real books from the UK in to the US, because they are cheaper in the UK (especially for university books).
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No they're not treated as books. Do you regularly make pronouncements on things you obviously know nothing about ? And the previous poster was talking shit too. VAT is currently 15% across most of Europe. And Amazon have decided to use AT&Ts global roaming network to provide the data link to Kindles. Why use a US based company with extortionate rates and peering costs when there are cheaper options already in place in the EU ? Total fail.
And obviously you are regularly making pronouncements on things you know nothing about, too. Since I know for a fact the VAT is quite a bit higher than 15% in 99.7% of the EU (everywhere except for Cyprus and Luxembourg), I tend to disbelieve your rather confident statement about the tax treatment of e-books as well.
Re:Another troll summary? (Score:4, Funny)
Dude! Have you ever tried turning an English book into Engrish?
Oh, they already speak English? Hrm, well, I guess then they'd have to create a "Ministry of Funny Spellings and Pronunciations" for words like 'color' and 'schedule.'
No? Ok, I'll leave.
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really? kindle one used the sprint network for books.
Now if only they used wifi data could be cheap across regions.
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Kindle still does - it's Barnes & Nobel's Nook that uses AT&T.
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OK what costs? Scanning/turning into an e-book? I'd bet that the vast majority of the offered titles are the same as they offer in the US
All those extra U's in the UK English version don't come for free you know!
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A more reasonable explanation, in my opinion, is that pictures are being stripped and the internet locked down so they aren't liable under chinese law for anyone who evades the eWall of China. And they're charging more because they think they can get away with charging more,
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Re:Another troll summary? (Score:5, Informative)
Logically speaking, why would their operating costs be any higher? They aren't actually shipping books around--they're shipping data. And that data is probably hosted on the same servers, maybe even the same bits as their US products
The data is essentially delivered by cell phone. They are using AT&T's international roaming service for the international Kindle, and that costs a lot.
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You would think that in certain territories they would come to an arrangement with a native provider.
Going with AT&T is strange. T-Mobile, Vodafone, Telefonica, Three all have large international networks and one of these would be a far more logical provider for Europe than AT&T.
Instead they're going to make the product worthless and expensive.
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I seem to remember one of the explanations for delay in international Kindle launch was "negotiating with carriers" (isn't it still used by Amazon somewhere?)
But for roaming you don't need any negotiations, AT&T already did those...so is it really roaming what international Kindle uses? Or did Amazon choose such terms?
Also, with competition between carriers much higher in the EU, with much better prices, and with a low bandwith device like Kindle, one would guess Amazon would be able to find carriers wi
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Then offer users the choice of tethered purchases that cost the same or wireless purchases that cost 40% more. The excuses Amazon are coming out with are complete bollocks.
In some respect this bullshit is a good thing since it may open some people's eyes to the benefits of an open format ereader, one that allows you to switch retailers at will rather
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Mod Parent Up. I hadn't heard of Jasper Wireless before, but I have been looking for an international roaming data solution and they seem impressive.
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Regarding 1), free wiki acess anywhere seems really nice. I guess that falls under "disabling web browser" also?
Oh well; no Kindle for me then.
Re:Another troll summary? (Score:5, Interesting)
Since anybody can edit wikipedia, you could easily stash a URL on some obscure page. This program, running on a computer with a real ISP, would be watching for edits made by you, and would respond to them by retrieving the requested URL, reformatting it, and posting that as a subsequent edit. The wikipedia guys would presumably crack down if it occurred on a wide scale; but a few geek enthusiasts, particularly if they cleaned up the edits used after they were finished, could probably fly under the radar for a good while.
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Slow news day, I guess.
Re:Another troll summary? (Score:5, Informative)
The Euro is valued over 40% higher than the dollar. The reason you keep the number price the same (unit-less) is because then you make more money on the sales in countries with more valuable currency, because (and this is the key aspect) people are willing to pay that price. That is it.
Currency exchange rates are only one small factor in the price differences, in USD, between Italy (pre EU), Kuwait, and anywhere else. It's a complex valuation between currencies which includes factors like money supply in each of the countries, GDP, local wage rates, and a host of other factors.
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Re:Another troll summary? (Score:5, Insightful)
No offense, but if you accept that explanation, you're one of the suckers their PR people spew that line for. That's not why they are charging more. Prices are set based upon maximizing profitability, not based on "cost + some acceptable profit margin".
They've made the determination that they'll make more money selling overseas at a higher price (even if they sell fewer units). Their "higher costs" explanation is just a standard explanation for "we're going to charge more in a certain market because we've determined that's how we'll make the most money".
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No offense, but if you accept that explanation, you're one of the suckers their PR people spew that line for. That's not why they are charging more. Prices are set based upon maximizing profitability, not based on "cost + some acceptable profit margin".
I agree with your post in entirety, but I'll take it a step farther and say "Who cares?" Different markets are different. Amazon doesn't owe you an explanation as to why it's "fair". You either take them up on their offer or not.
Non-story.
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Different markets are different. Amazon doesn't owe you an explanation as to why it's "fair". You either take them up on their offer or not.
While you're correct that the public can accept or reject Amazon's offer, your implication that they don't have the right to discuss or criticise it as they're doing here is wrong.
The public don't owe Amazon the right to have them STFU and not discuss the merits and/or reasons behind their offer. Amazon have the right not to sell the product in the first place if they (or you) don't like it being discussed.
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Partially hobbled... (Score:2, Insightful)
... is still better than unavailable, which is the current state of the Kindle here in Canada (we don't even get the "International" version)
Re:Partially hobbled... (Score:4, Funny)
What part of "Third World Nation Axis of Evil" do you Nucks not understand?
Higher Costs outside the USA? (Score:4, Interesting)
That is Marketing Droid speak for
Lets screw everyone else.
I fail to understand the reasoning for this in places where Amazon already has a huge operation (eg UK)
Ah well, If they screw us up so much then people will find a way to get, sorry pirate or hack the US Editions and then watch Amazon cry fould as the whole thing is a mega flop just like the Zune is outside the US.(just an example)
When will the so called international companies really view the world as one big market and 'do the right thing'.
I certainly won't be buying one of these. I urge others to boycott them until the functionality is restored.
Re:Higher Costs outside the USA? (Score:4, Informative)
The Zune is a huge flop inside the U.S. as well.
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Informative? This seems more like a candidate for an 'Obvious' mod.
Legitmate conversion costs (Score:3, Funny)
The books need to be converted from the NTSC format that America uses to the inferior PAL system that European books use.
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So the Europeans will get one-sixth more words and deeper blacks in their books?
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That is Marketing Droid speak for
Lets screw everyone else.
No .. this is fundamental capitalism for lets see how much the market can bear
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> When will the so called international companies really view the world as one
> big market and 'do the right thing'.
Perhaps when governments do likewise?
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I fail to understand the reasoning for this in places where Amazon already has a huge operation (eg UK)
That's because you fail to understand how the device operates. It uses a connection to the cell phone network to receive data. In the US, Amazon has a deal with Sprint to use the Sprint wireless data network. For the international Kindle, they have a deal to use AT&T's wireless data network. When used outside the US, this incurs roaming charges.
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And the iPhone bought in the UK uses the AT&T data network in the US to receive data then?
What does that have to do with Amazon's choice of wireless carrier?
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A market for middle men? (Score:5, Insightful)
What is to stop someone from buying "American" book and reselling them to European customers for, say, only a 10% markup?
Oh, let me guess - no interoperability / not an open format.
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Nothing, as long as you use a web proxy in the US for downloading and don't expect the wireless to work on a different cell network.
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Put that way, nothing except the fact that it's likely to not be profitable. Given a US price P (always excluding sales tax) and a VAT of 15-25% depending on the EU country (applies to e-books in most of them; must typically be included in the price by law) you have to charge somewhere between 1.15*P and 1.25*P just to break even.
So 10% markup in the list price would be a loss. 20% would be about break-even, if we assume a 20% VAT. A 10% increase in what the seller gets would mean a 32% markup in the lis
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Plus you don't pay vat on second hand goods so if you're reselling you shouldn't be charging it.
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There is no sales tax unless you are in the same state as Amazon, unlike VAT.
Done singly you could get away without charging VAT, but I imagine customs would notice after awhile.
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> There is no sales tax unless you are in the same state as Amazon, unlike VAT.
True, but doesn't matter much for the point of the argument, since the US list price doesn't include the sales tax no matter what, and the article is comparing list prices.
> Done singly you could get away without charging VAT, but I imagine customs would notice
> after awhile.
I'd think so. ;)
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> What has the US price got to do with it ?
The whole point of the article is that the UK list price is 40% more than the US list price.
> The US price is the US price including their profit.
Right.
> It's not like they have to buy any more copies to sell in the EU.
That depends on the licensing terms.
Also, the operating expenses (e.g. the data connection for the kindle) remain and might not be priced the same in the EU.
> Sales tax in the US is VAT in the EU.
Sort of, except that the list price (which
Amazon Offers Refund! (Score:5, Informative)
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The nook does look pretty snazzy if you ask me. Amazon really needs to step up there game or the good ol' invisible hand will smack amazon in the face :P
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The only cool feature with the Nook is that LCD on the bottom. It would have been perfect to load up a keyboard onto that thing to let you annotate, and look up words in the dictionary, but I haven't heard about it having such a feature.
Only lame book cover previews and setting menus. You'll still be staring at eInt 99% of the time, and that isn't different than the Kindles, and books at B&N's ebook store are reportedly much more expensive.
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Nook will give Kindle a run for its money, only if BN is not stupid enough to limit it to US.
Unfortunately, corporations have an innate act for stupidity.
So BN is running an also-ran product into a market saturated and broke.
Good luck BN.
You have a great product, but you are stupid.
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Furthermore, the article linked is only talking about the GSM Kindle in the UK. The GSM Kindle I have lets me use web surfing in the US without a problem.
Fundamentally, the issue here is not
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I seriously doubt Amazon will be doing anything involving multiple carriers with any version of the Kindle.
The software would need to be "localized" or "individualized", or at the very least some configuration would need to be done based on what carrier was to be connected to. This would be a huge pain that today virtually does not exist.
I can take a unlocked GSM phone to Australia and in five minutes have a SIM card on a prepaid plan. The connection to the carrier is controlled by inserting the SIM card.
After all... (Score:5, Funny)
yet their PAPER books are the same price (Score:4, Informative)
So why do I get the feeling I am being lied to?
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And being able to sell the device but not each book isn't the right of first sale.
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The publishers' desire for control will be what forces paper books out of the market, not consumer demand. I didn't specifically advocate piracy so spare me the "buy it or do without" tripe; I only pointed out that the p
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Wow really? (Score:3, Informative)
Was amazon really too stupid to contact vodafone or orange and get a plan from them. I mean really why would they actually pay roaming charges with AT&T. Its not like they bought the kindles from AT&T and AT&T locked them :D
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Its things like this that make me really wish the FCC would hurry up and ban permanent exclusivity deals.
But that would only happen in a world where congress can actually get anything done and stand up to businesses.
Who cares about browsers in these things? (Score:2)
Really - I remember everyone having orgasms about the fact that the PlayStation II was going to have a browser and that was going to take over the world. If you are going to buy a Kindle you are not thinking about surfing the Internets, you're thinking about reading books in the same way as you're thinking about playing games on the PSII.
No photos is a bit sucky though.
And the high price thing - meh. Ve Europeans vill nevargh geev oop our reediculous high prices! It is ze mark of civilization!
Too Confused To Make Heads Or Tails? (Score:4, Insightful)
Here's a brilliant idea, DON'T BUY IT! Here is a WANT(read: not NEED) that costs way too much for it's purpose and is hobbled every time the lawyers gets a scent of blood or a penny. Vote with the only thing these corp's care about, your money! Stop being the consumption drone the media tells you to be!!!!
Too much to ask, I guess. Gotta get the new Droid...oh my, it's a phone, too? And the new Lana Johannah album, she's hawt! And of course, them 20" rims for the Prius, they save batteries cuz they are cooler!
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So is one automatically a consumption drone every time they make a purchase? Any purchase? There are thousands of people that enjoy their readers, many have multiple ones, and still keep up with the new models coming out.
Are you seriously saying that people buying these things to spend hours reading are making impulse buying decisions to satisfy some emotional need? Cmon. Most people buying these things are rational about the pros and cons and why exactly they buy them. After all, these things arent ch
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Are you seriously saying that people buying these things to spend hours reading are making impulse buying decisions to satisfy some emotional need? Cmon.
Yes, yes I am. Where we going? I hope it's to the Yahoo Music Store!
want -verb (used with object)
1. to feel a need or a desire for; always wanting something new.
need -noun
4. necessity arising from the circumstances of a situation or case.
Don't complain when your functionality and content is further struck. Please keep in mind, your willingness to accept less ownership and relinquish control to a corporate entity sets precedent for future generations' choices. Validate your decision however you like,
Unclear headline (Score:2)
The difference is significant. I was considering getting an international Kindle even though I live in the USA - so that it would work on trips. But, if my daily NYTimes has no pictures, then forget it. If the Times has pictures while I'm at home, but none when I'm in London, that is still annoying,
Solution is to include a wi-fi chip (Score:2, Insightful)
If the international kindle used wi-fi instead the problem of high data charges on a roaming US sim is gone. Or partner with a local GSM network. Am i missing something here? >> because this seems like a simple problem to solve.
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The whole point of the kindle is that it has wireless GSM access built in.... and sadly you can't change it to a local Euro carrier. There is no SIM card to swap. Nice try, though.
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If that's true (I don't know whether it is), then it violates the GSM standard and European open access regulations - to promote competition, you aren't allowed to sell GSM devices in Europe that don't have swappable SIM cards. (The US version is CDMA, and doesn't have a SIM card, but that's not what we're talking about here.)
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The whole point of the kindle is that it has wireless GSM access built in....
I thought the whole point of it was to read books. I'm not sure why that would require any sort of wireless access.
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For me, Kindle is an expensive and useless toy.
Oh, then it must be true for everyone. That's probably exactly why the original Kindle sold out in five and a half hours and was out of stock for the next five months, because it's expensive and useless.
Also, if you think that a small laptop with a PDF reader is a replacement for Kindle (let alone "better"), you're out of touch. Do some research into how Kindle accesses content online (hint: there's no wifi, and there's no ethernet). Also, I'd like to see your netbook spend four days between battery char
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You were comparing the Kindle to a laptop on _reading_ _experience_, not content control, so let's separate those two. eInk readers have significant advantages over a laptop or tablet.
But turning to content control, are books free on the PC? Do you get access to the latest releases DRM-free? Free to copy and paste into plain text? To lend to anyone? No? Books have the same amount of owner control as on the Kindle?
Well, then, I guess it's the usability that's really important here, isn't it?
And no one
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You have a problem that I dislike the Kindle idea? Ohh... so sorry. You may like to be vendor-locked and use a device that can kill your content on vendor command, but I do not.
(and as a note, My sig is not decorative. I do not like to write and read in English, and I do not care if you dislike this with your "corrected to you".)
Fixed that for you.
I don't care what you like or what you don't like. But what I don't like is posts that say "don't buy this, it's useless, because I don't like it." It works just fine for plenty of people. It doesn't really matter if it works for everyone or not. There's not a single product in the history of the world that has worked great for everyone who's tried to use it.
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Why figth against a stupid corp like Amazon, if you can simply use real books (no DRM here, you can give then to your friends, sell, etc) or use a better - and open - option like one netbook with PDF reader? For me, Kindle is a expensive and useless toy.
This comes up with every Kindle article, and I tend to respond. A netbook, or anything else with a backlight, can't compete with a Kindle's readability. Of course there are other ebook readers, and there are also paper books, but the Kindle really is quite useful if you travel and want to bring a lot to read. Also, if you want to only read free (as in beer or speech, your choice) material you can do so on the Kindle. The DX, at least, reads pdfs without any conversion, and both versions read txt and sev
Circuits without text (Score:2)
Something like this, I imagine:
V0 1 0 AC 1 SIN(0V 1V 60HZ)
R1 1 2 470
C1 2 0 220 U
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As far as I am aware, prices are significantly higher if you download them wirelessly. If you download them to your computer and load them onto the Kindle via a USB cable, the price is lower, as it doesn't incur cell charges. I think an Amazon rep confirmed this, though I don't have a link.