UK Gets Europe's First 3G Femtocell 114
judgecorp writes "Femtocells have been on the horizon for a while, but the UK just got the first 3G femtocell launch in Europe, by Vodafone. The device connects to handsets in the room and links them to the cellular network over broadband. It's a classic win-win, because it gives the user better coverage and takes traffic off the service provider's network. The only complaint might be from the broadband provider, who could be carrying traffic for a rival. Vodafone isn't pushing the data angle, but since it has HSPA, the product could work just fine with laptops and dongles. Femtos have been in limbo waiting for serious launches, but judging from the list of speakers at the World Femtocell Summit in London, Vodafone might not be the only one."
I love it! (Score:5, Insightful)
It's fucking win-win for big business.
Re:I love it! (Score:5, Interesting)
It's just another slashvertisement.
Chodeaphone sucks. their coverage sucks in particular, which is why they're pushing this.
I'm just waiting for someone to figure out how to hijack what is essentially a wireless connection to someone's broadband...
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Chodeaphone? What?
If you're going to alter a company's name for ironic effect, at least do it in a way that makes sense. Personally I find it immature and annoying, and wish people wouldn't do it at all.
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So it does make sense
*cue "the more you know" splash*
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Cool story, grandpa.
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Slashvertisement it may be but as a former employer of Vodafone I know that they have the best voice and 3G coverage of any mobile operator in the UK. That's why they are the government's preferred operator. And no I don't have any affection for the company.
As for yourself, getting coverage in your mother's basement would be a challenge for any network.
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Check the latest poll, I live in an attic
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as a former employer of Vodafone
Vodafone used to work for you? You should have fired their ass.
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Well, as a FORMER employer, he probably did fire their ass...
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I'm just waiting for someone to figure out how to hijack what is essentially a wireless connection to someone's broadband...
Yeah. What better way to get out of a RIAA lawsuit than "they hacked my router"?
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Banish those My-kids-miss-being-irradiated-by-the-cell-towers-mounted-on-their-school-buildings-when-they-come-home blues. Install our manufacturer-approved home-irradiation device for whole-day coverage. Order now while stocks last! *parting corporate jingle*
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Take your pseudo-science fearmonge
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your call is important to us; please hold
*muzak plays*
"order your home-irraditation device today and receive a 20% discount
*muzak continues*
all of our customer service representatives are busy; please hold...
*muzak continues*
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Been there, done that.
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I agree that Vodafones coverage isn't what it could be but that is a criticism that could be made of any of the mobile providers. In my experience Vodafone isn't much better or worse than any other provider it really depends on where you are. What we really need is for some Government intervention to allow the mobile providers a bit more freedom in putting up masts. They have bent over backwards to placate pressure groups and it's left us with beautifully hidden but rather patchy mobile phone system. More p
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Don't know about the UK but in the Netherlands Vodafone is one of the best in terms of coverage. It's still not all that great everywhere, but in general it's one of the best you can get.
And yes I'm a Vodafone customer, and no I'm not that satisfied (they gave me a 50MB limit per month which doesn't even cover my monthly mail traffic).
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Been a subscriber with Vodafone since march and I must say, everywhere I go it's either 3 or 3.5g, with some really ridiculous locations being only GSM (inside a store in
Old buildings (Score:2)
This seems to be targetted at home users, which isn't what I was expecting.
There are lots of old buildings in Europe, and some of them have really, really thick stone walls. Some of them only have moderately thick stone walls. Something that provided a signal in buildings like this would be useful.
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Uh no.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Uhhh, no. It's a classic fuck-the-consumer, what-the-fuck-were-they-smoking, you-have-to-be-fucking-kidding-me deal.
I got this spiel from Verizon (USA) a little while back. Unlucky enough to have marginal service where I live, I asked a Verizon store rep what could be done about it. He then came back with a nice box and said, "It's really cool. It's called a thingmajiggy and it will boost your cellphone service through your Internet connection." I thought, "Wow, that's pretty cool of them".
Just one thing everyone forgets or wants to gloss over in this massive techno-wankathon over how cool it is.... Verizon tried to charge me $250. Two-Hundred-And-Fifty-Bucks.
This is what you are getting for $250. The ability for ANY Verizon phone within range, which from what I understand is about as good as an access point, to PREFER your "femtocell" and place the calls across your Internet connection back into Verizon. Everyone still gets charged for their usage.
Why would I PAY Verizon to basically expand their own coverage area? Why would I incur the bandwidth costs for unknown cellphone users around me? Yeah, I couldn't fucking figure it out either.
Before anybody gets real hot about how cool these things are, just realize that you are paying these people directly to expand their service coverage. That's just plain nuts. If it was $40 or $50 bucks like a cheap router and I could restrict access by IMEI, *maybe* it might be an interesting deal.
Wow. In the UK it seems, not only will you pay to increase their service coverage, but monthly as well. I hope a reach-around comes with that deal. Gotta admit, that's one hell of a commitment to increasing coverage and creating a reliable network. Let's make everyone pay multiple month's of service up front along with an additional monthly service cost to put them to work for us.
Total. Fucking. Insanity. /END RANT
Re:Uh no.... (Score:5, Informative)
With this Vodafone one, "The device will support up to four voice calls, and users will register the handsets they want to use it on the web", so only you and your family/friends can use your picocell.
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Nice idea - but in the UK it is illegal to record a conversation (including text web chat such as IRC) without the permission of the people involved. You could listen in, maybe, but not record it. Even then you might be infringing some telecommunications regulations by deliberately snooping on a telephone conversation even if it is using your infrastructure (and by setting up their phone number as being specifically allowed, you can't even claim ignorance)
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This is a tough one ain't it....
One thing i was wondering was that would data (web browsing) still go via Vodafone or would it now cut that part out and go direct to the target website? After all am i not responsible for ALL traffic that leaves my network? I wouldn't want anyon
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If someone that you know (and allowed access via your cell) was downloading kiddie porn on their phone, I guess that when the rozzers [wiktionary.org] come knocking, you tell them who has had access to your cell, and they arrest your friend. After all, if you scan your network traffic and see kiddie porn, what are you going to do? Tell your friend to stop, or call the cops? Unless you are prepared to shop your friend to the authorities, you can't avoid being inconvenienced at her majesty's (or Obama Kenobi's) pleasure just
wireshark? (Score:2)
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For £150 you can buy a Nokia E51, SIM free (change network whenever you want) which supports VOIP over Wi-Fi.
That's £10 less AND all your calls will be a lot cheaper (VOIP prices are much less than mobile phone prices) when you're in range of your Wi-Fi router.
You can even configure your VOIP to forward calls to your mobile phone number when you're not in range.
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Same with Sprint; they call their version the AIRAVE [nextel.com] and it says: "Limit access to your AIRAVE by creating a list of up to 50 approved Sprint phone numbers."
Re:Uh no.... (Score:5, Interesting)
I would agree with you entirely, were it not for the fact that Voda appear to be locking this box down to certain handsets.
However, I agree entirely - why should I pay an additional monthly fee to Voda just so I can use their service from my house when I can walk fifty yards down the street and not have to pay? Further, not only am I paying Voda for the privilege of saving them money, but I then have to fork out for additional bandwidth on my home broadband.
All that having been said, one of only two reasons my company has an office is for mobile coverage. If I can get coverage at home (and those of my staff), there's no reason not to move to home working any more. The additional cost of the cells would still result in a saving if we don't have to pay for the offices.
Ho hum.
Nick.
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Because you don't want to have to walk down the street in the off chance that someone might be trying to phone you.
Can't your mobile do redirection?? (Score:2)
When you're at home just redirect your mobile to you landline FFS! Or is using a phone that plugs into the wall just so uncool these days that you'd sooner be with no phone service at all?
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In that case thats their fault and their problem if they have no phone service. They shouldn't be so tight.
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Anything with wires is totally uncool and no longer worth using - or so it seems. Personally, I still find myself occasionally using the land line attached to my DSL service.
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In many places in the UK It's possible to get a totally uncapped, unbandwidth-shaped broadband connection for under £15 which is actually usable (20Mbits down, 1.5 up).
As such, I don't agree that the bandwidth is necesarily an extra charge. The majority of homes in the UK already have bandwidth because they have broadband anyway - and the clever ones have Be* or o2 Broadband without caps. For those people, the voda femtocell may actually be pretty useful.
I've got friends who have great broadband
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In many places in the UK It's possible to get a totally uncapped, unbandwidth-shaped broadband connection for under £15 which is actually usable (20Mbits down, 1.5 up).
Who with? I'm currently looking to switch away from Virgin, because they're terrible (massively oversubscribed, resulting in dialup-like speed at peak times) in my area.
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I have to say, from what you've described, this device sounds like something I could really use. The mobile signal in my house is attrocious. In the US, you can use repeaters to extend coverage within your own house, but those devices are completely illegal in the UK. If this offers a viable, legal alternative, I'd definitely consider it.
Of course, 1. I'm on 3, not voda, and 2. I can't afford to drop the cash on it. But, in principle ...
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Your entire rant reads like you think this is for *home* users. It's primarily targetted at business users. Probably those that have bought everyone Blackberrys and then find they don't work in basement etc.
> Why would I PAY Verizon to basically expand their own coverage area?
For the exact same reason you PAY to have broadband, cable or phone lines installed in your house: Because you want to USE IT perhaps?! By paying them to install broadband in your house you're "paying them to extend their network"
Re:Uh no.... (Score:4, Informative)
I do agree the cost is kind of high (I feel less as bad for myself seeing as those in the UK really get screwed with a monthly fee) but if you need service, you need service. I'd rather cough up the extra cash to have good coverage and live where I want to live (aka bumfuck). The only other option would be a cellular repeater with an antenna mounted on your roof and that'd be significantly more expensive and dependant on the reception already available.
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While the deal that you were offered is totally nuts I don't think this deal is the same sort of thing. The impression I got was it simply acts as a base station for up to four registered phones. Personally, I think there is some scope for the system you describe if the pricing and technology are put together in the correct package.
For example, imagine you live in a remote area with no / limited mobile coverage, your mobile provider offers you this deal: you buy your broadband and a mobile contract off them
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I have the Verizon network extender because inside my house gets very poor cell phone reception, likely due to the metal roof and chicken wire in the stucco walls. It actually works quite well. It's main drawbacks are that it requires a GPS antenna to be hooked up and it does not handle EVDO.
It gives priority to the phone numbers I specify and only supports other phones when there is no other signal. It can support up to 3 simultaneous phone calls and reserves a fourth for 911. So far it has been wo
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Before anybody gets real hot about how cool these things are, just realize that you are paying these people directly to expand their service coverage. That's just plain nuts. If it was $40 or $50 bucks like a cheap router and I could restrict access by IMEI, *maybe* it might be an interesting deal.
The technology is pretty cool - cell site in the palm of your hand. The way the corporations handle them not so much.
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Did you post as AC because you're ashamed at having RTFA ?
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What about wifi? (Score:5, Interesting)
What stops you from doing the exact same thing using wifi? You connect your phone through wifi to a VoIP gateway that will route the call to any phone number you want to call. You just need a VoIP client installed on your handset. If you have a open handset, for example an Android one, that's easy and you can use this today within any wifi network you have access to.
Re:What about wifi? (Score:5, Informative)
All "3" mobile phones have a skype client, the sticking point is the wifi.
On the other hand "3" seem to have gone completely off their rocker and aren't charging for the data skype uses on their wireless network. Net result? Free calls. Completely free calls.
!?
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Each VOIP call uses less bandwidth than a voice call, so it's a transition to get people to do this. You still have a monthly contract, so expect the price of that to go up as people use it more...
Perhaps they have a deal with Skype also, so they get a share of outcall and termination revenue, after all it's only Skype to Skype calls that are free, if I call my friends on their 'real' phones I still get charged.
In fact, that's part of their plan - once I start using it, I nag all my friends to get it too, s
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Each VOIP call uses less bandwidth than a voice call, so it's a transition to get people to do this. You still have a monthly contract,
Urm, no I don't. I got 3 on PAYG. What I do need to fork out for is a handset that will run the skype software, which my phone won't. As I don't know anyone on skype it's kinda useless for me. However, what is useful is that you also get "unlimited" free 3-to-3 calls, some free data and free texts on PAYG, providing you top up at least £5 every 3 months.
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Each VOIP call uses less bandwidth than a voice call, so it's a transition to get people to do this. You still have a monthly contract, so expect the price of that to go up as people use it more...
Nope. http://threestore.three.co.uk/payg/default.aspx [three.co.uk] clearly shows these phones NOT on contract which have free skype calls. And it's being marketed as FREE CALLS FOREVER (so don't expect any price to appear). Three is a pretty cool company.
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And it's being marketed as FREE CALLS FOREVER (so don't expect any price to appear).
Yeah, and I was sold an unlimited broadband package.
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They also explicitly say that you don't have to top up the phone with calling credit to use the free Skype.
Just buy a phone, and you can make skype calls over their network free of charge forever. They also have msn messenger free too, to replace crazy expensive text messages.
I don't know how they can profit off of that. Perhaps the logic is that someone with a "3" phone might occasionally make normal calls with it, which do cost?
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Unless they have made drastic changes lately:
1. Skype on 3 goes via a gateway. From your handset to three is done via the mobile network, then they route it over Skype.
2. No Skype-out. Free calls to other Skype users are only of limited use.
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2. No Skype-out. Free calls to other Skype users are only of limited use.
skype-out is allowed for international calls on 3 skype. Very useful.
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I saw one of those "Free Skype for Life" 3 adverts the other day and couldn't help thinking of the old classic:
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Where does the profit come from, then it's free? Or is that the joke?
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Nothing, but if you want to use the same mobile number, there's no-one (as far as I'm aware) that allows that.
Ideally someone would come up with a single access number that finds me by the best method - cellphone when I'm out and about, over Skype/VOIP when I'm there, and voicemail when I'm not.
If I switch full time to Skype, I can use it at home, but it's a LOT harder when out and about - as far as I know, only '3' in the UK allow it explicitly on their handsets.
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T-Mobile in the USA does just this with their Hotspot@Home service. You need to have a compatible handset with WiFi. The service costs about $10 a month and lets you make unlimited calls while you are on your WiFi network or T-mobile's WiFi hotspots in coffeeshops and such.
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Unfortunately Vodafone and Orange in the UK think it`s OK to cripple their phones with customised firmwares which remove the VOIP functionality, so you have to debrand the phone and flash vanilla firmware, or try and install a VOIP and get it working that way.
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Orange got there first (Score:1, Informative)
WRONG - Orange was the first UK/European company to offer their service via a broadband connection. Their femtocell offering was called unique phone and was released well over a year ago!
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Orange does it with Wi-Fi phones.
A femtocell is not Wi-Fi, it is a tiny GSM repeater hooked to a broadband connection.
Net difference: you can only use the Orange service with Orange-specific devices. You can use femtocell with any GSM phone.
Already been done (Score:4, Interesting)
My Orange Nokia 6301 supposedly does this in the UK.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network [wikipedia.org]
The 3G network "3" also claims to use Skype automatically to reduce call costs.
Only phones you register will be able to connect (Score:5, Informative)
Lots of people seem to be assuming that this is you paying the network to extend their network for anyone to use.
It isn't.
If you read the article (I know, radical), you'll see that only four phones, which you need to register, will be able to use the femto-cell. So no, you won't be providing your neighbours with improved service over your own connection (unless you register their phone).
While it's pretty expensive, I'd actually be tempted by this. I can't get a reliable mobile signal in my flat, because of the construction of the building (mobile reception outside is fine).
Of course, it doesn't say if calls made over the femto cell are cheaper than over their network. I would hope they were, it would mean I could pretty much ignore my landline, which I only use because I can't be mobile reception.
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Good point, actually I'd pay extra for that :)
Data over this thing? (Score:1)
Why would you use a laptop and a dongle to transfer data over this thing? What was the submitter thinking, why wouldn't you just use wifi?
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Why would you use a laptop and a dongle to transfer data over this thing? What was the submitter thinking, why wouldn't you just use wifi?
Because there won't be any wifi. Cellular networking won the battle when the iphone came out and phone companies started selling netbooks on contract. Ten years from now small to medium businesses won't have any networking gear in their offices at all. They will use cellular networks for all their traffic. Bigger businesses may have private networks or microcells like this.
I had this back in 2008 (Score:5, Informative)
"It's certainly the first of its kind in Europe, and I see Vodafone says it will work over every home broadband line,"
I had a Samsung Femtocell installed in my basement last November running over a residential DSL line. It's from a Slovenian mobile operator Mobitel - I even written a blog post [tablix.org] about it.
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Bad assumption IMHO. What is far more likely to me, is that using the IP network is cheaper than the alternatives, not higher in quality. Remember that these companies are in business to make money, not provide quality service. Occasionally providing the later enables the former, but not usually.
Rival? (Score:2, Insightful)
Er, no. They're carrying traffic for their (paying) customer.
But would it avoid roaming charges? (Score:1)
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Tesco (a British supermarket) sell a cheap internet phone that gets a real phone number. I know several people who've bought them and sent them to their parents abroad (e.g. in India). So the Indian parents now have a Birmingham, UK telephone number and can talk to the children at local rather than international rates.
Unless Vodafone are checking IP ranges, there's no reason this device shouldn't work in the same way.
If they just did IP checking (Score:2)
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Use abroad? (Score:2)
Hmm, I am from the UK but I spend almost all my time living in Brussels. I maintain a UK cellphone for the times when I am back though. If possible it might be cool to get one of these and plug into my Belgian broadband. A local access point without the international roaming charges.
That could be sweet!
-- Pete.
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Well done for thinking of it.
Does the spectrum match up overseas? (Score:2)
Sprint makes a device called the Airave [nextel.com] that acts as a mini-cell tower over a DSL line. I imagine it could be plugged into any DSL line overseas, and route calls and voicemails to my cell phone in another country. Even if Sprint had some geographical limitations as to where the traffic could come from, I could
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I imagine it depends on the codec they use. I've brought my Vonage Canada network adapter to the UK, bur found phone calls sounded like CDs skipping. Skype on the otherhand keeps going, even when I was in China and the latency was spiking up to 1000ms.
Clarification: This femto is given away free (Score:2)
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Great for us travellers! (Score:2)
I often visit the USA for several weeks at a time.
With this device, I'll simply be able to plug the cell into my broadband in the US and have access as if I was home in the UK, without any worries!
I do begrudge the idea of paying Vodafone for traffic in the UK, but outside, this sounds ideal!
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Good luck with the FCC in the US when you light up a European-band GSM base station here. These are licensed bands and you cannot just run around using them without the approval of the licensee.
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I often visit the USA for several weeks at a time.
With this device, I'll simply be able to plug the cell into my broadband in the US and have access as if I was home in the UK, without any worries!
Maybe not, the Sprint AIRAVE femtocell here in the USA requires a GPS lock showing it is within the US before it functions! (Source: this review [engadgetmobile.com] under "design")
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Maybe not, the Sprint AIRAVE femtocell here in the USA requires a GPS lock showing it is within the US before it functions! (Source: this review [engadgetmobile.com] under "design")
and it would be terribly difficult to cut GPS traces and solder Atmel Attiny26 spamming US based NMEA string .. NOT
Proximus in Belgium offered that years ago (Score:2)
paul524 (Score:1)
Verizon Femtocell (Score:2)
Can I hack it? (Score:2)
They are not complaining (Score:2)
The only complaint might be from the broadband provider, who could be carrying traffic for a rival.
The reason I use Comcast is because I can use high bandwidth services. I know Comcast doesn't have a cell phone network, but trust me, your ISP, weather or not they have a cell network, are not complaining about finding new reason why you should keep your service.
Wrong, by a long way... (Score:1)
There have been these for ages (Score:1)