Apple Censors App Store Rejection Notices 477
isBandGeek() writes "After a few reasonable App Store bans, such as the ones on I Am Rich and NetShare, developers started complaining about excessive restrictions on applications like Podcaster and MailWrangler, supposedly because they provided 'duplicate functionality.' In response, Apple rubbed salt in their wounds by slapping non-disclosure agreements on application rejection notices. Now developers are not even allowed to tell their fanbase that Apple decided to withhold approval for an application. Is Apple confident that Google's open platform Android won't be much of a threat?"
Reasonable? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why does Apple get a free pass? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because they make cool *looking* equipment? If M$ did this, people would be all over them. Jobs is not known for working and playing well with others, but people just wink at the silliness because they like the shiny gadgets.
irrational... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What happens if you don't agree? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's my understanding that to even have developped an app for ipod, you have to have already signed an NDA. Must be under those terms.
I personally just like writing C# apps to run on my PocketPC smartphone and use all the goofy Windows APIs. It may not be lickable, but darn it, the thing works and is fun to write for.
Re:well (Score:3, Insightful)
>>>slapping non-disclosure agreements on application rejection notices.
Apple can not arbitrarily take-away my right to free speech. This means nothing if I don't sign the NDA.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why does Apple get a free pass? (Score:5, Insightful)
"...people would be all over them". Yes, sort of like we're doing here.
Re:well (Score:4, Insightful)
true, but you did sign a NDA when you became a registered apple iPone dev.
it sucks but it's not quite as crazy as "by reading this message you agree to the terms of our NDA"
they aren't just slapping this on now. they slapped it on you up front.
Not good (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:agreement? (Score:2, Insightful)
In practice, it's probably unenforceable. If Apple sued you for disclosing the reasons for the rejection they wouldn't be able to show any damages, and since Apple aren't doing anything, you might even be able to argue that the contractual arrangement ended with apple's rejection.
Re:irrational... (Score:3, Insightful)
It may be just me but I really don't get why apple has such a big fanbase, seeing as how they treat their customers...
Well, ask yourself this: Why do some of the top brands of anything have such a big fanbase? Why do so many people go to McDonald's? I mean, McDonald's has food that "tastes like sh** but you can eat it." Why do so many people like Subway? Why do so many people people drive Toyotas?
These are all fairly mediocre products. Don't get me wrong -- Toyota produces a quality product, but it's just not as good as some of the major European brands (let's face it, the Germans know how to engineer good cars!)
It comes down to one word: Marketing.
Know who your target audience is, learn to speak their language, learn to cater to their attitudes and whims and you could sell air conditioners to Eskimos.
Re:irrational... (Score:2, Insightful)
It may be just me but I really don't get why apple has such a big fanbase, seeing as how they treat their customers...
In most cases, Apple treats their customers very well. Hardware is usually very elegantly designed and hardware & software usually work seamlessly together (iPod + iTunes for example). Get AppleCare for your products, and they'll repair/replace them in virtually all circumstances regardless of what's wrong. As a hobbyist programmer, I really enjoy XCode, since I've used eMacs, vi, .NET, NetBeans, etc. It's the best IDE I've ever used. I still think the NDA is ridiculous, and hope that they'll drop it soon.
Re:Why does Apple get a free pass? (Score:2, Insightful)
I came in here to say this, but you beat me to it and got modded flamebait. Seriously, if Microsoft or Sony behaved in this manner there'd be 500 negative comments. I don't understand all the apple love around here...
Boycott (Score:4, Insightful)
That is an analysts opinion (Score:5, Insightful)
An analysts opinion isn't worth the paper it is printed on, and this opinion ain't even printed.
Both phones are less then perfect and missing some "we don't think you need this, so you don't get it" features.
But the analyst is an idiot because he talks about the lack of iTunes. Yeah, because people care about that. Oh, they don't. First off, most music on digital players is ripped from CD's, or obtained through other means in mp3 format. iTunes is very small potatoes in the global music industry and even Apple knows that the iPod a far bigger player in the digital music player isn't always going to be used for iTunes content, which is why Apple gives you the tools needed to convert iTunes music to MP3 format or burn it to a CD.
The idea that a new platform needs to be compatible with iTunes is silly.
The bigger problem is lack of office compatibiltiy. While MS does offer you ways to export your documents in more general formats, that could be the real killer. The iPhone is bought by people who buy Apple and so accept that it is NOT going to be all that compatible with MS software. But android doesn't have the Apple logo, what is its excuse for not being MS compatible?
In a way, I don't think the iPhone and Android are even competitors. iPhone is a single product offered by a company that has no other phones. Android is a platform that any phone maker can use. It would be like saying the Smart Car competes with Honda Engines. Does the iPhone compete with Windows Mobile or Symbian? No, it competes with other phones, specific models, not OS/Platforms. if this google phone fails, there are plenty of others coming out soon, while Apple can hardly afford to start making dozens of phones and a new one every season to suit the tastes of the customer. Neither can google, but the phonemakers can.
Re:That is an analysts opinion (Score:3, Insightful)
It is Microsofts fault for not making itself combatible with 3rd party things.
Re:Andriod is no threat (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why does Apple get a free pass? (Score:5, Insightful)
Only there wouldn't be nearly as many MS apologists as there are in this thread for Apple.
Re:well (Score:5, Insightful)
You see most of the critisms that article put at the Android phone were of particular features not included or limited, if the Android does what it claims to then people can simply write an app that performs that feature and there is nothing stopping them releasing it. However, if that feature is lacking on the iPhone or deliberately lacking(many of the critisms were also true of the iPhone) then Apple can prevent it being released.
Therefore the Android has the unrestricted potential of fulfilling all of the lacking features whereas Apple will prevent the iPhone from fulfilling that same potential.
I like many Apple products but this is my classic annoyance - they could be so much better if Apple didn't hold them back so much.
Re:irrational... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do so many people go to McDonald's? I mean, McDonald's has food that "tastes like sh** but you can eat it."
Because it tastes awesome. Not particularly healthy, but awesome. Especially the french fries. Let me guess -- you're a vegan?
Why do so many people like Subway?
Oh, because they use fresh baked bread? Because it's fairly healthy? And how exactly do you screw up a sandwich, anyway?
Don't get me wrong -- Toyota produces a quality product, but it's just not as good as some of the major European brands (let's face it, the Germans know how to engineer good cars!)
Asian cars destroy German cars on long-term reliability. I prefer Honda, but they're all pretty good. I liked my couple of Benzes, but they weren't as good as their reputation after 70-80K miles.
Re:well (Score:5, Insightful)
other bias (Score:4, Insightful)
Other sites report the incident differently. The main point being that it appears to be a clarification of the NDA that developers already agreed upon, and not an additional restriction.
Compared to game consoles, Apple's requirements are very tame, but you don't hear much complaints about the rejections that Nintendo regularily sends out.
What it does do, however, is make it clear (again), that the iPhone is not a general-purpose computer, but a device.
Nothing to see here, move along (Score:2, Insightful)
The developers signed up to the NDA and the terms and conditions when they joined the programme. This notice is just Apple restating what was already in the agreement.
If it wasn't for the Apple hatred that abounds within the FOSS hive mind this wouldn't be a story. There are plenty of people developing within the terms of the agreement and bringing new and innovative applications to the iPhone/iPod Touch. Why is the focus on the few that can't comprehend what they have signed up to rather than the many success stories?
Re:well (Score:5, Insightful)
<quote>
but I'm just tired of people whining about technology products not living up to their ever-so-important expectations.
</quote>
You can be tired of it, but as one of those Whingers, I'm pissed that my technology is restricted or limited at every turn, either by lack of imagination (the openness of the PC platform proved something) or by pathetic vendor lock-down in an effort to control quality or competition.
Re:well (Score:5, Insightful)
So 4 out of about 4000 apps have been rejected so far. 0.4%. I don't think it's time to panic yet.
4000 apps, which the majority are thin wrappers around web pages, or the like vs some few (interesting) apps.
The apps that got "rejected" are exactly the ones I would have wanted (bar the i am rich one). I have WANTED an app that can download podcasts straight to my iPod Touch. Currently I use my Nokia N95 (which has a podcast application built in) do do that, but its screen is not as nice as the iPod.
The second thing is, Apple is charging money to "join" the program (even for freeware developers), yet are not 100% clear on their rejection policies (which allows them to revise their policies), and no scope for refund.
I am certain this will fall foul of some UK/European laws, due to its vague nature, and some false advertising by Apple, in terms of their rallying calls for developers (yes I heard them). Finally not being able to disclose the reasons for rejection can also fall short of some laws, as reasons for rejections can help other developers avoid mistakes, or better asses their own projects.
If Apple wants to keep secret its reasons for rejecting applications, then it could be equated that Apple are kind of performing a "lottery" of sorts. That also could fall short of some laws.
Even Symbian (which itself is stricter than J2ME/ Windows Mobile/Android) doesnt do these shenigans.
Re:Reasonable? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not reasonable but Apple didn't have much choice in the matter. AT&T wants to be able to charge their users extra for the privilege of tethering so they've written that into their agreement with Apple.
Re:What happens if you don't agree? (Score:3, Insightful)
Since money changes hands, I think a simple wording along the lines of "by paying $99 to register as an official iPhone developer, you agree to the NDA". It's more involved than a simple "click here to agree" because there is an actual paper trail that can be followed through your credit card. So, I would think that this is "more substatial" than a traditional EULA.
Layne
Re:Andriod is no threat (Score:4, Insightful)
As for the "sex appeal"... is that what you're after in a phone? Really?
Fanboy newspeak (Score:4, Insightful)
What it does do, however, is make it clear (again), that the iPhone is not a general-purpose computer, but a device.
lolwut? You people are redefining words, now?
That gagging sound you hear is a black turtleneck chocking a human neck, forever.
Re:Andriod is no threat (Score:2, Insightful)
Besides marketing, you forget UI.
A better web browser, a better app store, a better MP3 player, a better video player, etc all trump your Treo.
Re:well (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What happens if you don't agree? (Score:4, Insightful)
But if you pay $99 to join the developer program, that's a contract, not a click-thru EULA. Contracts involve something of value from both parties, and that $99 is your agreeing to the contract.
But if this rejection letter NDA is part of the rejection letter, not part of what you agreed to on that $99 contract, I doubt it is enforceable. But on the third hand, if you publish the rejection letter, no doubt they will cancel the contract and you would have to sue to get it reinstated. I wonder if it is like making a disturbance in a movie theater, if they refund your $99 when they kick you out.
Re:What happens if you don't agree? (Score:3, Insightful)
Did you pay them $99 for the SDK? Doesn't that make it a contract, not a mere EULA?
Re:I'm a Mac (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft's latest Life without walls [youtube.com] ads are onto something seeing that Apple are shooting themselves in the foot lately
Re:Andriod is no threat (Score:3, Insightful)
Holy christ, why am I feeding the troll.
I'm surprised you didn't bitch about no MMS support so you can get billed to send pictures over the proprietary cell network instead of just emailing them.
The situation with Podcaster and MailWrangler quite frankly sucks and no sane person will disagree with that. Apple's stance on this completely sucks. All we can do is complain and hope they'll listen. Generate enough bad press and something is bound to happen...
Re:well (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:well (Score:3, Insightful)
So 4 out of about 4000 apps have been rejected so far. 0.4%. I don't think it's time to panic yet.
4 that we know of. It's possible that a large number of other developers who had their apps rejected actually did read the NDA they had agreed to, and are fuming in silence.
That's the whole idea of NDAing this stuff: To keep the extent of the problem a secret. So you can't say "it's only 4, nothing to see here."
Re:well (Score:3, Insightful)
Because to support the Android OS, you must support all types of hardware that it runs on.
Here are the options...
- Support the lowest common denominator (P1) - no multitouch, even on multitouch android-based phones. Apple doesn't worry.
- Ignore the P1 - So your app will work on _some_ android phones, but not others. Consumers get confused. Apple doesn't worry.
- Create a single touch, and a multi touch version of your app. The UI development suddenly doubles. Developing an app for Android now has a higher cost than the iPhone. Consumers get confused. Apple doesn't worry.
While I am deeply disturbed by the behavior of Apple, and hope that the courts compel them to change their minds, much like they did for Verizon recently; I can't see Android being much more than a spot in history, by Google's design.
Re:well (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:well (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Andriod is no threat (Score:3, Insightful)
As for the "sex appeal"... is that what you're after in a phone? Really?
Having a gadget be good for showing off to others is definitely a selling point, as lame as it may be.
Re:Andriod is no threat (Score:1, Insightful)
Sounds like a Star-Tac killer to me, but my 5 year old PalmOS-based Treo trumps the iPhone in almost every single feature. The iPhone does not provide any new functionality, not revolutionary in any way, and there were plenty of full-screen, touch handsets out before the iPhone hit the market.
Let's forget about features and marketing for a second - there's one important thing you've forgotten that the iPhone does that *is* revolutionary, and that's its user interface. The entire iPhone is easy to use, intuitive, and accessible to even the biggest technological dullard. That's a really, really big deal. Every single other phone I've used, smartphone or otherwise, and I've used a lot, have awful user interfaces in comparison to the iPhone. Aside from marketing, that's one of the main reasons the iPhone and iPod have done so well. They're not just popular, they're actually a joy to use.
Re:What happens if you don't agree? (Score:5, Insightful)
PocketPC ... the thing works
Do you have a different version of Windows Mobile to the rest of us?
What, are you one of those poor bastards still running WM5? WM6.1 is a perfectly serviceable operating system. My HTC TYTN II doesn't get "rebooted" unless I decide to reflash the ROM. I reflashed it a couple weeks ago, but before that it ran for months without a restart. Now the phone I had before this one, the Mio A701, that piece of crap needed to be rebooted 5 times a day. Really, the problem with WM isn't the OS, but craptastic hardware compatibility due to mediocre "value engineered" phone hardware. If the iPhone OS was available to any and all Taiwanese phone mills, you'd see the same shit. Really, most problems with WM can be solved fairly easily: quit being such a cheap fuck and buy a decent piece of hardware to run it. Windows Mobile runs like a swiss watch on well-designed hardware--- just like the iPhone.
My only wish is that HTC would make a phone using the same size display as the iPhone. This tiny QVGA shit sux0rz.
Apple will eventually learn... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:well (Score:4, Insightful)
And that is how our country was formed. By a little civil disobedience in order to protect the grander goals of individual freedom. Had John Hancock and Ben Franklin been caught signing the Declaration of independence, they and all the other signers would be hung for high treason. Same goes for Washington leading armies against the Brits.
Re:well (Score:4, Insightful)
Until such time as the private entity attempts to use the power of the government to censor you by, for example, filing a restraining order.
I'm personally pretty tired of people spouting off that we have no free speech rights when it comes to corporations and private persons, because quite frankly that is bullshit. Free Speech is a recognized human right and no other human, government representative or otherwise, has the right to take it away from you. The only ways they can try are 1) make you agree contractually to limit your rights, 2) use the force of government via the courts, in which case you are protected by relevant law, or 3) use force directly against you, in which case you are protected by relevant law.
Ceding your free speech rights to private entities is just as bad as ceding them to the government. You, me, everyone, has the right to stand up to these bullies and claim our human right to speak freely. Just because it is NOT enumerated in the bill of rights does NOT mean the right does not exist.
Re:well (Score:3, Insightful)
>>>Apple's going to have a hell of a time showing that they were materially damaged by someone saying that their app got rejected.
Precisely why I would not hesitate to say publicly why my application was rejected. (And also because I don't think an unsigned or shrinkwrapped NDA is valid. A customer should not bound to an NDA simply because he/she buys a product.)
As for the term "civil disobedience", I used that term because I tend to think of corporations as being quasi-governments in nature. Apple lacks police power, but it can still pound the average citizen into the ground via sheer weight of monetary expenditure (lawyers and lawsuits). So I view any resistance against an over-reaching corporation as resistance against a petit-tyrant and/or defense of my individual liberty.
Re:well (Score:3, Insightful)
Are you assuming it was open at some point?