iPhone App Enables GSM To WiFi/VoIP Switching 153
alias420 writes "You can save on long distance and air time with the new 3G iPhone. iPhone Hacks has the scoop on an upcoming iPhone 2.0 App named 'iCall', that will let you switch between VoIP and normal GSM calls anywhere in North America. You can check out their recently released video proof of call switching in action . This software requires no hacks and will be completely official. Here is a little quote from the developer: 'We are part of the Apple iPhone developer program. This is not an application for you naughty jail breakers ;-)'"
Carefull now ... (Score:1, Interesting)
Especially the iPhone 2 will not be sold with flat-rate. Both Apple and the telcos have gained insight and experience in the customers actual use of the phone. Standard terms for an iPhone 2 will be around 300 megs a month - a number which is very high for browsing and the occasional iTunes purchase, but nowhere near enough to sustain heavy VoIP usage. Or constant r
Re:Carefull now ... (Score:5, Informative)
VoIP calling is only over Wifi, so the data tariff limitations are irrelevant - the SDK simply doesn't allow call switching over non-Wifi data connections.
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the SDK simply doesn't allow call switching over non-Wifi data connections.
Interesting. I didn't know that.
;-)
But if all new iPhones were sold with true flat-rate data, your can be sure that someone would create an app for hacked iPhones doing exactly that: call switching over 3G/HSDPA connections...
For the telcos, the only way to fight the problem is to ensure that the dataflow is too expensive - making normal calls a more attractive choice.
- Jesper
Re:Carefull now ... (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, first hand experience of making calls over 3G (HSDPA) packet data connections using Fring on Three [three.co.uk] shows that call quality is terrible. Admittedly this was in central London, where cells may be quite heavily contended, but once people actually start using 3G you can quite regularly see bursts of latency - causing the throughput to go through the floor.
You get a guaranteed QoS with a proper voice call. You do not with packet data. In fact, Three's own "Skype" service is based on iSkoot, which does uses packet data for getting the contact list, setting up a call etc - but it actually carries calls over a proper voice channel.
I tried fring over wifi (Score:5, Informative)
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Call quality (Score:3, Insightful)
Wow. Given how atrocious GSM (and CDMA) phone quality is relative to good old POTS (or even analog cell technology), 3G VoiP must be really unconscionably awful.
I am frankly stunned at how many people are switching to mobiles as their only phone. When I'm talking to someone who's on a mobile phone - particularly if I'm on one as well - I am constantl
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As someone who has a mobile as my only phone, I just don't use the phone that often. It's not important that I have crystal clarity as long as I can get what business done that I need to, and have a nice chat with my parents.
I've found that it really depends more on your device than the call itself. I can hear everyone perfectly well, and they understand me, as long as no one's using an el-cheapo phone.
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Ditto. My Ericsson K800i has pretty decent sound quality, but I recently picked up a Philips bluetooth headset (SHB6101 I think) and it's crystal-clear; the improvement in clarity is easily noticeable.
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If they were sold with flat-rate data, there would be pretty much no reason to require call switching. At least in the US, the few areas that have 3G coverage have reliable signal. If you've got the bandwidth and you've got the reliability, why add in an additional point of potential failure?
I suppose something that would automatically re-route incoming cellular calls over the VOIP/data connection would be of use, but at that point you should just be giving out your VOIP number and avoid that whole proble
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So you can get free long-distance calls to other VoIP users. e.g. overseas.
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This came up a month or so ago, so I call DUPE!
Well, a month ago people doubted the switching between incoming cell call and VoIP could work, and now they set up a video showing it. So it's not really a dupe, it's an update.
Re:Carefull now ... (Score:5, Informative)
I don't see why any of what you said is relevant as this software only works on WiFi and NOT on 3G connections??
Have you actually read the article?
From TFA:
"It promises seamless call switching between VoIP via WiFi and regular calls. "
and
"Apple has explicitly stated that VoIP is allowed, just not over Edge networks"
I'm not sure therefore, why you've been modded as insightful when your post is totally wrong - unless I'm missing something??
Because (Score:2)
unless I'm missing something
Yes, I read TFA. And yes, it appears you missed something: the quite obvious possibility, that if flat-rate is (or becomes) available for a sufficient number of users, someone will make a corresponding iPhone app that runs on hacked/jailbroken iPhones.
We are geeks after all?
The number of homebrew apps already available for the current iPhone seems to prove that there is no limit to what you can actually do - regardless of whatever obstacles or deliberate shortcomings the public SDK contains.
And please
Are you using Lynx to browse the web? (Score:2)
I don't know which websites you visit, but most web pages in 2008 are from 100 to 500 KB (which is sad, considering that (X)HTML/CSS pages should be much smaller).
As for "the occasional iTunes purchase", a single tune will be around 3MB. So, let's remove 12MB for the four "single of the week" which are free, and you're already down to 288MB.
It also means you can only view from 19 to 100 web pages every day e
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No matter.
Someone has been busy modding it "overrated" so its back to 2 now. ;-)
- Jesper
VoIP (Score:2)
Re:VoIP (Score:5, Informative)
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Fringe (Score:2, Interesting)
Fringe is a similar app that lets you connect to skype and make voip calls. What would be great is if these kind of apps worked over G3. Here in Mexico incoming calls to cellphones are free, so in theory you could us an all data plan and use skype for your outgoing calls.
Providing you have a flatrate data plan (Score:5, Interesting)
so in theory you could us an all data plan and use skype for your outgoing calls.
Provided you have a flat-rate data plan with a price tag small enough to actually make your scenario work. Which will not be all that common for the iPhone 2. Telcos are not stupid. They will identify the exact amount of data transfer which is precisely enough for "regular" customers to never actually reach it, but no where near enough to use the device for streaming, VoIP, or similar services/technologies.
A normal smartphone users spends around 100 megs a month. Including constant syncs with his company exchange server. An advanced smartphone user spends about the double of that. The iPhone 2 will be launched with a 300 meg data plan. Not flat-rate. Coincidence? I think not.
300 megs is more than enough for just about every "normal" smartphone user. But not enough to throw in VoIP, radio-streaming on the road, or mobile pr0n.
- Jesper
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As far as I can tell from observing the habits of my iPhone owning friends, YouTube (or RedTube..) is likely to be the biggest bandwidth hog. Possibly BBC would be second. The 300MB limit gives you 10MB/day, which would be fine for VoIP - you could probably get around 3 hours a day of calling. Of course, this will never happen, since the network operators would hate it and so the iPhone SDK doesn't support VoIP calls over non-Wifi connections.
Remember ... (Score:2)
The 300MB limit gives you 10MB/day, which would be fine for VoIP
Provided the users never uses any other services which require data. Which I personally don't think is realistic.
:-)
Your point would be valid if the user had 300 megs only for VoIP, but that is not the case. Any VoIP usage comes on top of the existing data usage - and on top of that, the normal subscription includes regular call usage. These two things combined is what makes the scheme work for the telcos.
- Jesper
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The 300MB limit gives you 10MB/day, which would be fine for VoIP
Provided the users never uses any other services which require data. Which I personally don't think is realistic.
Considerably less than 300MB/month would be useful for many people to avoid occasional trunk call charges.
You don't have to make every call over VOIP for it to be tremendously useful.
Its a pity Apple places artificial restrictions on the phone & doesn't allow this sort of functionality.
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You have to keep in mind, this restriction is undoubtedly imposed by the telcos
Nokia doesn't seem to have any problem including skype on their phones, so I'm not sure wtf you'd think that.
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300 megs is more than enough for just about every "normal" smartphone user. But not enough to throw in VoIP, radio-streaming on the road, or mobile pr0n.
That's what they think. Ascii pr0n FTW!
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Provided you have a flat-rate data plan with a price tag small enough to actually make your scenario work. Which will not be all that common for the iPhone 2. Telcos are not stupid. They will identify the exact amount of data transfer which is precisely enough for "regular" customers to never actually reach it, but no where near enough to use the device for streaming, VoIP, or similar services/technologies.
No flat rate? ARGH! On my current phone, I doubt I use more than 10kb a month since I just call on it, no web-browsing, no texting, etc. How typical of these companies to sell you a phone that will make heavy demands on the network and only sell you enough bandwidth to meet a small fraction of your total demand.
How long are we going to have to wait for these carriers to give us a proper flat rate for mobile internet devices? How are the carriers charging for it in Japan?
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About the 300 meg thing you mentioned - I haven't really seen this answered anywhere. If I switch out my first generation iPhone with the new 3G one, does anyone know if AT&T will force me out of my unlimited data plan?
Could be a European thing ... (Score:2)
It could be a European thing. It is easier to rape the customers on new markets, where nobody is used to having a flat-rate data plan for the iPhone for the simple reason that the first generation iPhone was never sold on that market.
Practically the entire European Union, minus France and the UK, would fall into this category. :-)
- Jesper
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There is, as a matter of fact, a world outside the US ... ;-)
- Jesper
Re:Fring (Score:1, Redundant)
fring... (Score:1)
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Not really, Fring is pretty cool I admit but it's not fully there yet.
Re:fring... (Score:4, Insightful)
Not really, Fring is pretty cool I admit but it's not fully there yet.
Which is better than this App - which is not there at all.
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but to me it looks way better than fring
*rolls eyes*
You can tell that based on a video? Whatever.
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Yeah. The sound quality is actually good and the lag doesn't seem significant.
*rolls eyes*
I can make a video where Fring seems to have nice sound quality & no lag too.
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Good for you.
Yes - good for me. Hopefully you know the difference between the marketing for an unreleased product & an actual released product.
Oh, and your *rolls eyes* is pretty gay.
*rolls eyes*
I think saying something is "pretty gay" is pretty stupid. Unless you're actually talking about two men fucking. (or someone being bright & cheery if you're old fashioned I guess).
I am confused... (Score:5, Insightful)
... couldn't you do this anywhere in the world with a phone running Skype for Mobile [skype.com] or practically any VoIP provider of your choice using a PocketPC? Either that summary is way too summarized or there really isn't anything exciting here other than saying this is now possible on an iPhone too...
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No, the idea is you get a call over GSM and then pick it up using SIP somehow, I don't know how that's possible but apparently it is.
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Don't be confused; you're correct - the only difference between this and PocketPC VoIP is that this is the iPhone. Skype for mobile is slightly different [arstechnica.com] - it uses the regular network for calls rather than a Wifi or other data connection, so you get charged at the usual rate for regular voice calls. However, Skype then proxy the call anywhere in the world for their usual tariff. The important point is you're still paying your mobile operator for the voice call.
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or there really isn't anything exciting here other than saying this is now possible on an iPhone too...
That's what's "exciting" about it. Every feature or rumour about the Iphone gets its own story, whilst every other phone manufacturer is ignored. Of course I predict that there will be replies saying that this feature is somehow different on the Iphone, because it "Just Works" or something.
See, next we'll have an article about the next Iphone supporting 3G...
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the trick was "switching" the only way I can think of to do this, without telco support, is if you were to call a sip provider first, for all GSM calls, and they proxy your call to the final number. Thus when WiFi comes available your sip provider gets the SIP session started, and drops the GSM call. To switch back (if trying to save GSM minutes) I would assume it would need to see the WiFi getting weak, and call on GSM, before the WiFi call
Probably not seamless (Score:5, Informative)
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I think it depends on your definition of "seamless".
I don't think it requires carrier interaction.
When transferring to VoIP, it can be done seamlessly, the application is launched and the call handed off to VoIP. Transferring out will result in a ring (needing to be answered) on the device, but it can still be done without loss of packets in the call.
If the application is smart, it could possibly track the strength of the WiFi network and transfer the call pre-emptively.
I would expect that their applicatio
iPhone VoIP SDK (Score:4, Informative)
There's an official VoIP SDK for the iPhone [phonesreview.co.uk], so expect similar apps to follow from other providers. The only limitation is that you can't VoIP over the GPRS/Edge/3G data connection.
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The data tariffs are reasonable for VoIP - depends where you live I suppose - in the UK cell calls to landlines and your provider's network are typically cheapest, calls to other networks are quite expensive, and international calls are extortionate. If it wasn't cheaper to use VoIP, then they wouldn't have to ban it. [zdnet.co.uk] They also ban instant messaging with a data plan, trying instead to force you to pay 10p or so for every SMS you send.
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T-Mobile has had UMA for almost a year (Score:2, Informative)
GSM over wifi is nothing new.
When my crackberry is in UMA mode cals/data don't count towards plan minutes and while overseas the phone thinks its in the US and NO INTL ROAMING fees.
See www.umatoday.com
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This isn't UMA. UMA requires the handset manufacturer and the carrier to cooperate.
Essentially, UMA is tunneling the entire GSM protocol over WiFi. Very much a short-term hack.
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american woes (Score:3, Informative)
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It would be great when roaming.... Imagine sitting in your hotel room, receiving phone calls on your mobile phone and not paying the cell phone company a dime in international roaming charges.
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Doesn't do anything too difficult. (Score:5, Informative)
This would need you to take a new phone number, much like Grand Central.
Then, when the call arrives, the SIP Invite is forwarded to the application (if running), and the user is prompted to decide on delivery mechanism.
If the app isn't running, the call is connected. If at a later point, the user starts the application, the app registers with the service, and, if desired, the call is dropped from the mobile connection and sent to the VoIP link using a reinvite (probably).
This can be probably be done using Asterisk on the server side. The nifty bit is the VoIP client on the iPhone. Other than that, the service looks pretty bulk standard.
This definitely wouldn't need anything other than the standard APIs.
What they aren't doing is using the built-in Mobile Phone Application and intelligently re-routing outgoing calls based on the presence of a WiFi connection, the way that TruPhone was going last September.
I think they would have some pretty extreme problems constructing a business case around selling this through the AppStore. Apple's current billing and charging limitations pretty much kill it instantly.
im confoosed (Score:1)
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yes, american minutes count up whether u made the call or not, if u are connected than it's counting the minutes.
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Wow! That's a great way to screw your customers over. How have the customers not gone crazy over that when you don't get charged to receive land-line calls, only make them? Or do Americans get ripped off there as well?
Now all I need is more free WiFi hotspots in the UK, a cheap (~£20-£30) phone without a contract and SMS over WiFi capability, and then my £10 Pay As You Go credit will last years instead of just months!
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Oh sure, it drives us crazy. The telco's did just win the previous /. poll for most irritating industry by a substantial 11%. Nothing we can do about it though if we want a cell phone.
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I bought a Nokia N51 off eBay with this in mind, and i'm on O2's Simplicity plan at the moment. When I get WiFi I have free internet, when I don't I pay £1 per day for unlimited 3G access. They don't like VoIP over 3G, though.
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It was a hope for the future (albeit a far fetched one) rather than something I was intending to do now. My Nokia 3510 has more features than I need/use, and I'm 23. Give me a phone that phones, texts, and has some minor bits like alarms and it'll do everything I need.
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I knew about the free local calls (but then given how big the nation is, you need to encourage them to communicate!) I just wasn't sure about receiving if the US got screwed over on receiving them, where you've got no control over how long the call lasts (unlike when you're making the call).
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Yes, but if you make the call then you know the topic of the conversation and you know how long it should (roughly) last. If someone else calls you then you never know what they might want to talk about and don't have much control over it.
As an example, if I phone someone it is normally a quick "I want this info" or "I'll be a bit late, see you soon". If someone else calls it could be my wife saying we need some shopping, or it could be my mum wanting a longer discussion and catch-up. By general etiquette I
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Several possible reasons
1) Americans/Canadians pay to receive calls.
2) When roaming, you can pay insane charges to receive a call, even on "caller pays" networks.
3) VoIP calls can use higher bandwidth codecs, resulting in better sound quality.
4) Coverage. If your carrier doesn't have coverage where you are (in a mall/building/airport), but you do have WiFi, you can still make and receive calls.
Having just come from the US and Canada, their GSM coverage was amazingly bad (compared to NZ/UK). I was in San F
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2) you get a nationwide flat rate roaming plan. you can go anywhere in the uSA and it only uses up normal minutes. bonus long distance is essentially free, you can make calls across the country for the same price.
3) 3G coverage in the USA sucks at best. which means only major cities if your lucky.
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Yes, in the US, it costs the same wherever you are, but it still costs you. In Europe they have a "caller pays" system, where it is generally free to receive a call, unless you aren't on your home network. Then you pay insane prices.
For example, it costs me US$3.10 to place a call to a US number when I am roaming in the US. To call back to NZ, it costs NZ$3.23 (on AT&T).
You can realize some pretty amazing savings if you can avoid roaming.
As for 3G coverage, since the VoIP app isn't allowed to use 3G
Where in the world is... (Score:2, Informative)
Great for Developing countries (Score:1, Interesting)
"Naughty" jailbreakers? (Score:4, Insightful)
What exactly is "naughty" about using hardware you paid for in the way you want?
Value judgements on behavior that harms no one. Delightful.
I'm sure someone who has some amount of respect for freedom will come up with an app that delivers similar functionality soon.
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Well.. what is naughty about being naughty then? It usually doesn't breaking any laws just doing something fun which happens to be frowned upon or is breaking some taboo, i.e. value judgement that harms no one. Delightful!
No harm? (Score:2)
Didn't you hear? Because of all the jailbroken iPhones the CEO of AT&T had to cut back to only THREE buckets of caviar a month instead of the six he normally enjoyed.
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You know the CEO of AT&T will still have his Six buckets. However if this problem gets too bad he will just drop the iPhone from his business if he is seeing growth not as expected, or he will find other ways to cut costs. You may blame the CEO just because he is the one the makes the most money, but lets be realistic most CEO got there threw hard work, and being smart and lucky enough to make it. If he sees something that is a drain on business he will change it one way or an other.
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*whoosh*
It was a joke...I don't blame AT&T. If we're going to wax serious on the topic, I blame Apple.
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Cracking? Check
Sarcasm? Check
William Wallace FREEDOM? Check
Obviously, this post is insightful.
Sarcasm? Check...
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It's OK if Apple restricts freedom around here, didn't you know that?
I'd say 'You must be new here' but I've seen you posting since the beginning, Mr. Anonymous Coward.
They would (Score:2)
When there is no alternative.
OpenMoko: Useless.
Android: Not for sale.
LiMo: Nowhere to be seen.
Got any other ideas?
Your post also implies (wrongly) that free software is unusable on the iPhone. My OpenSSH, links, etc. would like to have a word with you.
The problem (Score:2)
There is no alternative, and saving my money for an alternative that will never come will accomplish nothing.
So what do I do instead? Spend it on things that approach what I want, to try and push the industry with what little voting power my dollars have in the right direction.
Giant failure (Score:2)
and will never amount to anything.
Search your feelings, you know it to be true, etc.
Seriously, that project has never had a single shred of vision or direction. It was "LETS PUT LINUX ON A FONE HURR" and there was never anything resembling a cohesive PURPOSE to it.
n95 SIP over ATT 3G (Score:4, Informative)
i guess this is only news because its for the iphone, while other phones have done this for a long time. i have been able to use my n95 SIP client to make free calls over the 3G connection for a long time now. ATT doesnt seem to block that data traffic here in the states. unfortunately truphone promo finally ended so calling cell and landlines is no longer free. but for the last year i could do 100% of my calling totally free, as data, and not use 1 cell minute from my plan. rack up those roll over minutes:)
Should be built in (Score:3, Informative)
If anyone has used ATT in southern california, you've probably noticed that it needs all the help it can get. It would be wonderful if I could use my wireless internet to make calls out of my apartment. As it is now, I have to run outside whenever my phone rings. More bars in more places my ass!
Check your Carrier's Agreement (Score:4, Informative)
As it is, I have an E51 and use WiFi for VoIP calling. I may drop the tarrif altogether and get a PAYG sim just to keep the phone active, and for when out of WiFi range.
If I can't use the data connection I pay for without limitations, they don't get my money. Simple as.
No jailbreak, not news... (Score:1)
Try again when it's for hacked phones.
Sadly wont help me .... (Score:2)
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Death of the cell phone service providers! (Score:2)
Muahahahahaha! Finally VoIP over Wifi is becoming an option on cell phones!
Next step, VoIP over WiMax w/ GSM switching.
Next step, VoIP over WiMax only, and the death of the cell phone service providers. Rest in pieces, you bastards >:)
Nokia N95 and Gizmo (Score:3, Informative)
I have an N95, and Gizmo. If I want to make a call that would be expensive on the cell side, I just find a WiFi hot spot and use the Gizmo Voip program.
It works great, especially while traveling in areas where the the AT&T roaming charges would stagger a billionaire.
Not news, just iPhone news.
Anywhere in North America? (Score:2)
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...and if by "crummy CDMA" you mean the network that gives me over 1Mbps down to my two year old cell phone when I'm standing next to a cow in a field in the middle of nowhere Kansas...
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What we really need is for iPhone to support UMA (Score:2, Informative)
There is a technology available called UMA (Unified Mobile Access) which, with the right handsets, will seamlessly switch from cellular to VOIP over WiFi. It is what is used by the T-Mobile "Hotspot @ Home" plans in the US. The phones have cell and WiFi, and if you are at home or on another WiFi connections your calls (in and out) are VOIP and don't count against your cell minutes if you pay the $10 or $20/month. I use it because our building at work seems to block GSM cell signals, so I use WiFi to get
Dupe (Score:2)
A quick search [slashdot.org] for "iCall" brings up this dupe from 23 days ago:
iCall Brings Seamless VoIP To IPhone Users [slashdot.org]
OK SERIOUSLY. (Score:2)
You're at home with your iPhone. You make a call on VOIP because you're in range of your HOME WIRELESS NETWORK.
You decide to leave and go somewhere but wish to continue talking on your iPhone. You get out of range of your home wireless network.
THE PHONE SWITCHES FROM VOIP TO GSM WITHOUT DROPPING THE CALL.
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You are assuming that the cellular operators have control or say over which applications are available via the app store.
I'm assuming they won't.
Let's wait and see whose assumption is right. ... I'm never wrong, you know.
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No, as they are too blatant about being a low-quality knockoff.
Try again when it's not obvious or made in a "free-trade, third-world" country.