Revitalizing an Aging Notebook On the Cheap 261
jcatcw writes "Brian Nadel's ThinkPad R50 just hit its fifth birthday, and the years haven't been kind to it. When it was new, the notebook was reliable and fast. Now it's slow and prone to annoying shutdowns. Is it a good investment to revamp a notebook that's worth about $350? It sure is, because this old notebook will get a new lease on life for about $125 — a bargain, considering what it could cost to replace." On the other hand, upgrading RAM, keyboard and hard drive don't get you a smaller (netbook-style) computer, a new battery, or the transflective screen on the Toshiba linked above.
Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Informative)
It's like craigslist syndrome; no one wants to admit that their ancient worthless crap is actually worthless.
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Informative)
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I don't think so (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I don't think so (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope (Score:5, Informative)
The used laptop that I paid $300 for, over a year and a half ago, is going for $200 now, and it blows the doors off an eee.
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On the other hand, I just went shopping again and picked up a Gateway FX laptop for $1400 - I do not expect to see a cheapo $400
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When you can get a brand new and amazingly more powerful laptop for 400 dollars, five year old laptops are not worth 300 dollars.
Yeah, buy and throw away, rinse and repeat!
Seriously though, I kept my 1ghz P3 long after the point of diminishing returns. The amount of money I spent on incremental upgrades would of bought a brand new rig.... But not one I new so intimately. Or ran so stable. Plus I'm sure there was a bit of emotional attachment to the damn thing, so many LAN parties so many mp3s, so much fun. Eventually it got the the point the only upgrade left would of been to purchase a P3-Tualatin off E-Bay... But by that point th
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This Thinkpad T41p (a four year old machine, according to the review I read, but lets be generous and say three years) is worth MORE to me than the Toshiba u300 I recently purchased for GBP600. For while the newer machine is shinier and ostensibly has a faster processor, the older machine is better built, looks better (because the casing was designed by a sensible person, the Toshiba looks like shit already) is more portable, has a better and more practical screen and, quite frankly, is better in every way.
Damn small linux (Score:5, Interesting)
try Damn small. It hardly matters if you boot of CD or HD so just try it out.
Re:Damn small linux (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll probably give damn small a try, out of curiosity, really all OSes should deserve words like "damn small," "nano," "pico," "tiny," and such. If I need or want bloat, I should have to add it myself.
I can't recall the last time I used most of the things which were installed by default anyways.
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http://www.dfsdirectsales.com/edealinv/servlet/ExecMacro?nurl=control/BrowseCatalog.vm&ctl_nbr=641&path=c641-def-USD-230%23%23-1%23%23-1~~c641-def-USD-43620%23%233%23%23at~~c641-def-USD-43622%23%230%23%2385~~q&query=&sortby=%2Bprice [dfsdirectsales.com]
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
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And most of the items were having incomplete listings at that point.
Just pay the money and go to a reputable dealer like Tigerdirect, Fry's or Newegg. If you have to pay a bit more, it's worth it. Plus with tigerdirect, you can pony up for extra protection if you don't like the item.
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Who is this company, and why hasn't Fry's Electronics sued them for trademark infringement?
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Even split into parts such as mounting brackets, the total value of the system is more valuable than if the system as a whole.
Yep! (Score:2)
Re:Yep! (Score:5, Interesting)
The math does not work! (Score:4, Insightful)
Very few buyers will worry about how much RAM etc it has. Most won't pay more than $x unless it has a fast CPU.
If you think that it is worth spending the extra $125 to have a faster machine for yourself, that's fine, but don't try rationalize it with resale value.
Re:The math does not work! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The math does not work! (Score:4, Informative)
When I sold my old sony, I got like $160 + shipping for the display alone. It was one of those behemoth 16.1" screens. Can't recall what I got for the rest, but I'm sure it was at least a couple hundred.
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1 gig ram: $50
802.11g adapter: $20
i want to put a dothan CPU in it, since im broke and its about all i can do
it would be $40 - $50 for a 1.7 or 1.8ghz dothan mobile. i think its rape, but theyre a bitch to find
i *need* a new battery. i dont care about the hard drive, i have an old tower that holds my data. batteries are expensive
i dont want to do more incremental upgrades and have
Or battery life! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Or battery life! (Score:5, Informative)
I'd say the screen quality would be the limiting factor. Dead pixels eventually add up.
If there were a way to get new screens, then this would be the next big way to save money.
Re:Or battery life! (Score:4, Interesting)
For me that is nothing I have had problems with. Dead batteries and limitations on maximum RAM or the lack of USB ports is tht biggie ones for me.
I have an old, very old, Toshiba Sattelite laptop with Windows 3.1 and a monocorome screen. Dead pixels isn't a problem. Small hard drive, small memory, and no USB is the problem. The external monitor is color.
Next oldest is a CTX 400 laptop. Again the screen is fine. The limitations again is it is maxxed out at full capacity of 72 Meg of EDO memory and no USB. It is running it's original Windows 95 due to the lack of RAM. I use it with MIDI and my keyboard and GPS due to the built in MPU-401 port and RS-232 port. It makes a great GPS topo map display as 2D graphics isn't memory intensive.
My newest laptop is also fairly ancient a Thinkpad T21. It is maxxed out again in the memory department at 512 Meg. It only has 1 USB port. I run Ubuntu Dapper Drake as an upgrade from Windows 2K professional on it and am quite happy, but I expect to outgrow it soon. Again Pixel death is not a problem. I have replaced the cold cathode lamp. They are only $20, but you need some serious soldering skill before attempting it. The lamp is fragile, toothpick thin, and the leads need trimmed to fit. Lamp replacement is not for the faint of heart.
Max memory capacity, dead batteries, lack of modern USB, and a dying lamp on older laptops are the problems faced by me, not dead pixels.
Is there a manufacture that had a problem with pixels that die?
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Since when??
I finally replaced an almost 5 year old Inspiron 8600. The keyboard was sticking, the mouse buttons barely worked, the drive was way too small, the battery lasted 1/2 as long as it used to, the graphics were painful for modern games, and the CPU was showing its age - but the 15.4" 1920x1080 display was as amazing as the day I got it (and still better than most new laptop displays... why is it so hard to find
Re:Or battery life! (Score:4, Interesting)
They do this by using cheaper and cheaper component, like low quality displays and marketing 16:9 screens as if they where 4:3 screens...
If you buy a laptop in the same pricerange as you did 5-10 years ago, you still get good quality.
It's starting to get tricky to get 4:3 displays in a laptop though. 8-(
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I've seen quite a few instructables about how to replace laptop batteries [google.com] yourself.
Be careful when you do that.
My brother replaced the cells in his old battery, and less then a month later, they exploded.
Luckily, they where a few meters away when it happened, but they found pieces of it stuck in the roof and in other rooms of the apartment.
Dead pixels eventually add up.
Dead pixels isn't the biggest problem with old laptops. It's the lamps. They grow dim with age.
My own laptop is a >5 year old Thinkpad R40, and even though it's still fast enough to run most stuff and has zero dead pixels, when compared to a new la
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Head in the sand (Score:2)
Or $50 brand new, better than the original, and available all over the place. It just depends on whether you actually bother to look first.
Those "horseless carriages" people mentioning... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Those "horseless carriages" people mentioning.. (Score:5, Funny)
Been there, done that.
Your cart goes as fast as the fastest horse can run, minus a bit since he's now dragging the cart AND the other horses.
The vet bills to fix the broken legs of the horses that are slower outweighs the cost savings. RoHS prevents the simple solution to a broken leg.
Like Larry the Cable Guy says: I heard the right thing to do when your horse breaks its leg is to shoot it. So I did. Now I have a horse with a broken leg and a gunshot wound.
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Should've upgraded (Score:2, Interesting)
Amen. Not to mention that the plastic casing is almost certainly weaker than a new laptop, making it more susceptible to damage. Just pay the $1099 and get a new MacBook. You'll get the latest in WiFi and Bluetooth capabilities, a beautiful TFT screen, a fast dual-core processor, plenty of RAM, a battery that's new, battery life th
Re:Should've upgraded (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Should've upgraded (Score:5, Insightful)
You obviously aren't too concerned with processing power, hard drive size, or the latest gee-whiz features if you're interested in upgrading an old machine. An Asus Eee or similar MID might be a little closer to what you're looking for. All the portability and simplicity you're used to, without all the heartache.
Re:Should've upgraded (Score:4, Insightful)
Nope. (Score:3, Interesting)
New battery is $50. 802.11g wireless card is $30 and goes in the mini-PCI slot where the useless modem was. No dongles. You're the one with the dongle if you want to plug in your GPS.
Screen, backlight, and DVD drive still work great. Old case has nice texture instead of sexy new shiny finish that attracts scratches and fingerprints.
You've spent at least $600 and have a laptop that smells like a chemical factory. I've spend $400 and have a laptop and $200 left in my pocket.
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I would be mighty impressed if you got a NEW battery for a 5 year old laptop for only $50. Batteries for older hardware get more expensive over time, not less.
Except for that huge antenna sticking out. And the majority of older laptops would have to go the PCMCIA route, which is both expensive and requires more to stick out.
Re:Nope. (Score:4, Informative)
That price seems about right for the Thinkpad ones I'm currently looking at on eBay... the UK's a little more expensive on average, closer to $60 inc. shipping. You may have problems sourcing for less popular brands of laptop.
Except for that huge antenna sticking out.
Running an internal antenna isn't difficult, even doing it properly rather than just bundling the wires into any free space.
the majority of older laptops would have to go the PCMCIA route, which is both expensive
It's not. You can get a PCMCIA 'g' card for under ten quid, the same as a USB adapter. And most five-year-old laptops (i.e. 2003 vintage) have USB ports.
for something that is likely to be unreliable
No signs of it yet. Whilst we're talking anecdotes and guesses, though, I do have a friend who's had to return two new Mac laptops due to overheating in the last few years.
Re:Should've upgraded (Score:4, Interesting)
Tssss.... You don't understand, do you? My dad has a P-III 733MHz laptop, which I think is from around 2000. The machine is completely set to his hand, he loves the resolution (1600x1200, I think... might be a tad less).
Over the years we scavenged parts from left and right: it now has 512Meg RAM instead of 256Meg RAM (scavenged), he has a Linksys 802.11g PCMCIA card ($30 ?), he as now a 80Gig disk instead of a 20Gig disk (scavenged from a more modern defective laptop - I used g4l to copy contents from the 20Gig to the 80Gig) and a scavenged DVD drive instead of the original CD drive. Now last year, his keyboard started acting flakey, and I told him: "Okay, look it's time for a new laptop".
He didn't want to. His XP installation was last redone in 2002 (I secured it, and he runs as User and knows about proper adiministration), and he likes it as it is right now. He spend $300 on a new laptop keyboard and two LiIon batteries that fit his machine. The battery life of his machine is simply astonishing.
He has enough power, he has enough memory, he likes his installation, and he has great battery life. Just by scavening around and spending a little (over time, of course)
So, by doing this: he saved himself money (he would never go for a 1280x800 screen... that's what cheap laptops come with), he saved the environment, and he's happy! What is more to ask?
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I was using a 10 year old Thinkpad up until 6 months ago. They are rock solid machines.
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It's funny, because my experience has always been the opposite. When I was supporting those laptops, we had MORE failures with Thinkpads than with any other laptop we worked with. Yet the business folks kept demanding them because they were "fit for an executive".
Question all you want. I have work to do, which my Apple will get done a lot better than any Thinkpad I've ever used
No Way! (Score:2)
It has WiFi, who cares about Bluetooth.
My old laptop has battery life that it would not have dreamed about when it was new because the new battery ($50) has significantly more capacity than the original and the 2.6 tickless kernel uses way less power than any OS from back then.
The better OS is free! Why spend money on Vista?
My la
Re:Should've upgraded (Score:4, Informative)
This is actually true of most LCDs under 24", and increasingly, LCDs under 30". Cheap TN screens [wikipedia.org] are present in almost all laptops and consumer level PC monitors. What are the disadvantages? Most (if not all) are natively 6-bit per color (instead of 8-bit per color). Viewing angles are poor compared to higher quality IPS or PVA/MVA/CPA panels. But response times are typically better, so "high-end" TN panels are popular with gamers.
Not too long ago, panel sizes like 20" 1600x1200 and 24" 1920x1200 were non-TN, but this has changed. The current 20" iMac uses a TN screen - the previous model did not, causing a decrease in picture quality.
Still, bigger LCD panels aren't TN for at least one good reason. The viewing angles would be unacceptable in many environments.
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Thankfully a bit of research will let you know what type of panel is used for a screen you may want.
not much of an upgrade (Score:2, Insightful)
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Battery? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I've heard of people doing it, but I don't know anyone who has, so I couldn't tell you anything about it.
If it works and you don't blow yourself up, let us know
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Unfortunately when it does fail he wont be able to get back and tell you, because it will have burnt his house down with him in it.
No Battery Required - AC Power is Ubiquitous (Score:3, Interesting)
Take the battery out of your laptop and throw it away. It's dead weight - without it your laptop becomes truly portable.
Laptop manufacturers have missed a significant market by not producing lightweight laptops that use only AC power (_no_ battery packs).
I just did some work on my thinkpad (Score:5, Interesting)
I almost gave up on it, and replaced it with a new unit, until I realized just how well my 7-year-old thinkpad still runs. I've seen my colleagues replace numerous dell, apple, and HP laptops in this time. This notebook has been in 4 countries, 3 provinces, and over a dozen US states with me. Its on its third battery, but thats not bad for its age. I bought it when I was finishing my 4-year degree, and its still with me now, over halfway into my PhD.
And when I realized that I would spend over $1,000 to get a new thinkpad with the options I wanted, I realized that my repair was a great investment. And of course the IBM (lenovo) website has all the documents you need to completely disassemble your laptop (and put it back together, too).
Unless you have extra money - and I'm guessing you don't, since you bought an R-series - you would be wise to put some money into refurbishing your laptop. You'll be glad you did.
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My punch cards never stopped working also, so like you I never saw the sense in upgrading.
What is an LCD by the way?
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My punch cards never stopped working also, so like you I never saw the sense in upgrading.
Ahh, yes. I see your humor. I should have added:
My 7-year-old thinkpad still runs everything I need.
It already has 1 gb of RAM, an 80 gb HD, wired and wireless networking, and can burn CDs (or even better, write to my USB flash drive).
I don't need a blazing fast system for presentations and email. I have a desktop that does the heavy number-crunching (and a cluster for even heavier). I don't care about windows vista, it is completely irrelevant to me. Same with Doom 3, Half-Life of any itera
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Except, of course, you still don't have the options you wanted.
That's not to say it wasn't a good investment for you, but to compare it to a new laptop and claim it's a bargain is a little silly.
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Also, the case is experiencing cracking.
Other than that, it's been great. The Centrino is actually half a Core2Duo and this one has SXGA.
Investment (Score:5, Insightful)
You might even be better of simply donating the laptop to charity and deducting the donation from your taxes.
If you really need it for some reason or cannot possibly afford something newer, consider putting Xubuntu, Puppy, or some other lightweight OS on there.
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At work, I have one that I use as a nagios display sometimes. I've pretty much stopped, since the energy used is wasted, but the idea is there.
If the screen is ok, there are lots of interesting possibilities.
Wow..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Where the hell did this laptop go? It looks like it sucked up a ferret (look at the page 5 gallery).
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9096720&pageNumber=5 [computerworld.com]
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Bad idea? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the question is interesting, but really, to get an old laptop working again, you must still walk around with something that looks and feels aged, since the casing is torn, the monitor is far from what it used to be (LCD and TFT quality wears out after some time) and the keyboard is probably not what it used to be either.
Why not just spend $500 on a new computer, such as the Asus Eee or MSI Wind? You're definitely getting more performance out of it, plus the benefits of WiFi, Bluetooth, etc.
Re:Bad idea? (Score:4, Funny)
New is not so cheap! (Score:3, Insightful)
Yep - not impressed by the article at all myself! (Score:3, Insightful)
Their utilitarian, black plastic cases tend to take more abuse than most before really looking "worn out" or "old". (No fancy silver paint to flake off, or aluminum shells to get dents or real obvious scratches in them, etc.) I've also noticed that batteries for most of them can be had for less money than many other brands.
At the same time, much
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Who really cares how it looks?
If your just using it is a work-book then the LCD quality isn't that important. Excel will be ugly even using some nice 32bit/pixel wonder display.
Keyboards are a problem, but he replaced it. My old iBook was missing both the
Uh, only five years? (Score:2)
Sure it's big and bulky compared to modern comps but it's got a damn nice screen and enough horsepower to run VMware and everything else I need.
The only problem is the battery is shot to hell and can only hold a charge for maybe 10 minutes. I normally have somewhere to plug in so I haven't bothered replacin
It makes sense for quality notebooks (Score:2, Interesting)
Benefits to upgrading ... (Score:4, Insightful)
1. It could be cheaper. He was talking about a hard drive and memory here, both of which can offer a slight boost in functionality, which is all that some people need.
2. It may be easier. If you're only talking about upgrading the RAM, then you get to bypass the joys of installing software and reconfiguring your working environment.
3. You may have trouble getting the features you need. Have an old printer that you don't want to replace? Need a serial port on the road, but don't want to carry an adapter?
4. It just may be more environmentally friendly. It takes energy to manufacture goods. It takes time and energy to dispose of hazardous waste.
Upgrading doesn't always makes sense. But sometimes it does make sense. So why criticize people who take that less travelled path?
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Firefox 3! (Score:2)
Just get a new one (Score:3, Insightful)
Set it aside and install Linux on it and use it for a download, firewall, torrent, web, development, java, gcc, proxy, cvs, - whatever - server. A working computer you can hack around on is always worth something.
I have a 6 year old laptop... (Score:2)
It's served me well over the years and it still does most anything I need (web, email, videos). I
LOVE the high resolution display and most of the laptops I see for under 750 have lesser displays. Dell warranty replaced the hindges about 3 years ago when the thing "blew up." Today, the hindges are as floppy as a 5.25in floppy.
Is there a way to replace the hindges for cheap instead of buying a new laptop to solve this
Fix those hinges! (Score:2)
Download the service manual, it gives step-by-step instructions on how to replace anything.
Use it for what it is (Score:3, Insightful)
Much better to spend the money on a new machine. If you have plenty of spare time clean up the old one and use it for a picture frame. It'll be cheaper and likely have more space. Isn't this the accepted non-geek use for an old laptop? If you have LOTS of spare time, consider using it for a geeky project like controlling a robot. Serial ports use to be standard on laptops but now you have to buy USB->serial adapters. So for some things the old laptop is actually better and cheaper to use. You could even consider donating it to your local club. (I almost donated an old laptop to my r/c flying club. With a serial connected hardware module it could be used to monitor for r/c interference. In the end I decided against it because most of the guys at the club would rather have nothing to do with a computer on a Saturday morning).
Indeed, use it as a computer! (Score:2)
No memory compatibility issues if you do your homework.
Spare parts are WAY cheap on ebay. You can fix the broken keyboard or the flakey trackpad for just a couple of dollars.
New batteries are $50 if you look and they work even better than the originals.
Full service manuals are available for download from the manufacturers. A couple of tiny screwdrivers and a clean place to work, and that old clunker is b
Upgrade the OS! (Score:2)
Dear Slashot (Score:2, Funny)
Flash drive? (Score:5, Informative)
The write cycle failure time on most CF cards is so long, you should get at least a few more years of use out of it (and CF cards will be that much cheaper by then). Even then, from what I understand, write cycle failures are just that - a failure to write. You can get a new drive, copy the contents to the new drive and be good to go.
Must go 7200rpm hard drive (Score:2)
-m
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Missed a step: Test The Freakin' RAM (Score:3, Informative)
Flakey memory is a common undiagnosed cause of system instability (along with bad power supplies). Testing the memory should be the first task performed after buying it from a place with a good return policy.
Depending for what .... (Score:4, Insightful)
YES: for a
garage computer: to check that "how to fix my XYZ headlamps.
bedroom computer: to browse around, without having to put your shiny macbook next to the bed so your SO can step on it in the morning
kitchen computer: recipes
living room computer: to IMDB that movie trailer, or to run MTR (multi trace route) during an online game, to see your current latency (ping)
asterisk/appliance box: damaged screen, damaged keyboard/touchpad? Still perfect for a quiet always on application. Well I run my asterisk on NSLU, but my close next guess was my OOOLD vaio
A 5 year old machine should also have DVD playback capabilities, USB ports, etc, so they are perfect as a car pc, toilet pc, bathroom pc.... or whatever
I actually have a 6+ year old Toshiba near my bed. It annoys the hell out of me with windows on it, and it is slow as hell, but to quickly google something, or spend a lazy Saturday morning "surfing the net", it is perfect. Oh yeah
just my 2c
Memory prices...watch out... (Score:3, Insightful)
- Disk drives. Costs go down. A lot. For older HDDs @ 3600 or 4200rpm, if you have anywhere near a reasonable amount of memory, this is the easiest and best bang for the buck.
- Memory. If you buy new memory, the prices for older 'architectures' go up. Check out the price of 1GB pc2700 sodimm vs 1gb pc5300 sodimm (DDR2). It's about 2 to 3 times the cost for the older pc2700.
- CPU. Never actually done this, but have thought about it on some occasions. Best to find some boards or references where it has been done successfully - and which CPUs are OK. Actually finding a CPU can be hard.
Ultimately, I end up maxing out my RAM either when I buy it or within the first year. Hard disk drives, I just buy the minimum size at the time of purchase as I can pick up a cheaper and bigger one later on.
Also, it's worthwhile considering a NSLU2 or the like as a cheaper permanent storage solution and keeping the 'latest' information on the smaller laptop storage.
Cheers
ws
Yours is broken though (Score:3, Insightful)
I just turned in a 4 year old T40 Thinkpad that had an 80GB drive and 1GB RAM. The RAM is the only thing that wasn't stock. Employer paid for the 512MB stick.
But I also bought my own Bluetooth USB adapter as this machine had none. A Trendnet, about $17.00.
I also disabled the built in 801.11b wireless NIC and bought a PCCard 801.11g NIC from Compusa for net $4.00.
I also bought a USB mulimedia card reader for mini/micro/SD cards as this machine had none. About $10.00.
And last but not least I had to replace the battery recently. Employer paid for the battery.
In my opinion old laptops are only useful as stationary servers for some specific purpose like a router or a home media center or something where you need a small low powered unobtrusive box that runs quiet. If the USB and SVGA ports run you don't even need a keyboard/skidpad or a screen. Take out the battery, chuck it, if the screen doesn't work, chuck that too. Voila you have a 3 lb server.
Too old? (Score:2)
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Back up your important stuff, wipe it and load up the Ubuntu. It will be like a new machine.
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Anyone know what the correct oil viscosity is for small fans?
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"All hard disks are virtual," he responded, and at that moment, all those who were present were enlightened.