The ThinkPad Takes On The MacBook Air 433
An anonymous reader writes "Walt Mossberg has an early look at the ThinkPad X300, Lenovo's answer to the MacBook Air. He says the ThinkPad is almost as skinny and light as the Air, but has many of the ports and features lacking on Apple's machine. The biggest downside: it costs much more and will be limited to a paltry 64 gigabytes of storage. 'Unlike the Apple, which can be ordered with a higher-capacity, lower-priced hard disk, the new ThinkPad will only be available with the expensive, limited capacity solid-state drive. So it will start at between $2,500 and $2,800-up to $1,000 more than the Apple's base price.'"
Mossberg has seen it... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Mossberg has seen it... (Score:5, Informative)
I think only a Slashdot Poll could answer this definitely.
Further anecdotal evidence, though: I've had a Lenovo T61 now for about two months, after having had a Pre-Lenovo T40 for more than four years, which had been my sturdiest Thinkpad up to that time. So far, I see no difference in the build quality of both machines, but only time will really tell.
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Too bad these SSHD aren't really worth it (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Too bad these SSHD aren't really worth it (Score:5, Insightful)
They don't test how much physical abuse the SSHD can take compared to the HDD.
Which is basically the main reason for wanting SSHD; making sure data survives.
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I'll give you one major downside... no disk platters, no data recovery. Want to undelete some files you accidentally deleted before you overwrite the data sectors? Bzzt... SSHD makes that impossible.
Sure, backups make that a lot easier, but not a lot of people do backups between the time they had the files, and when they deleted the files they wanted to keep.
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Again, impossible with SSHD, because those blocks are reallocated by the physical hardware once the data is confirmed to be deleted. AFAIK, there's nothing the OS on top of that hardware can do to stop the hardware from doing what it does "electronically" by design.
The thinkpad pretty much spanks the Air (Score:5, Informative)
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And that's not just Mac fanboyism, as the Dell I have now also has a much lighter power supply than the T40, although still bulkier, heavier and far uglier
Re:The thinkpad pretty much spanks the Air (Score:5, Informative)
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The new Lenovo ones about the same in volume as a MacBook power supply with a different design. The big part is in the middle of the cord, so as to keep the end the size of a say a lamp plug. It's black and boxy, not unlike the machine itself. No appreciable weight.
Re:The thinkpad pretty much spanks the Air (Score:5, Interesting)
I have Macs at home, but you have to recognize that the Air may be pretty, but it's sorely lacking in features that many people consider necessary these days.
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Re:The thinkpad pretty much spanks the Air (Score:5, Interesting)
My current notebook is an old Thinkpad T23 that only has a trackpoint and no touchpad. Although I really like OS X (own both a Mac Pro and Mac Mini) and really want a mobility for some of the apps I use on it, this seemingly small issue is enough to make me unsure about whether my next notebook will be a MacBook or a Thinkpad. It's a big issue to me, an analogy would be the touch screen keyboard on the iPhone being a reason people don't want it over a phone with a real QWERTY keyboard.
A used Thinkpad X-series is likely to be next laptop purchase (I bought the T23 used). And I would be running Linux on it of course, which I enjoy more than OS X anyway, but the few video and audio apps I use on OS X make a Mac possibly more useful to me. So I haven't really made a decision.
Re:The thinkpad pretty much spanks the Air (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The thinkpad pretty much spanks the Air (Score:4, Interesting)
Though you are probably correct that most people don't like trackpoints, most people don't like touchpads either (but like them more than trackpoints). Most people prefer real mice, but those are just not as practical when you are on the go. Everyone at my workplace uses a separate mouse with their MacBook Pros or other laptops. It doesn't help the MacBooks that they only have one mouse button (hence an external mouse is almost a requirement for many people).
I think a lot of people haven't given trackpoints an honest chance. My girlfriend didn't like it at all at first, but one time when we were traveling I forgot to pack a mouse and she was forced to use it and she grew to really like it. Also, not all trackpoint clones are created equal. I bought a desktop keyboard that had a trackpoint-like stick, but it completely sucked as and was unusable; I had the same problems you described. The one on my Thinkpad T23 rocks, but that doesn't mean other manufacturers make good ones.
There is an annoyance with trackpads too - the base of my thumb sometimes hits it accidentally and then the cursor suddenly jumps to some random place and I find that my last few words have been inserted in the middle of some other part of my document instead of at the end. That is annoying but only happens once every couple of days despite how much typing I do.
When I had a notebook with only a touchpad this was a constant annoyance.
I wish that IBM would offer a Thinkpad without the trackpoint; how hard can it be to have a replacement keyboard, for the majority of people who don't use trackpoints (yes the modern Thinkpads have *both* a trackpad and trackpoint, but I don't just want to be able to use a trackpad, I specifically want to *not* have a trackpoint in there, and I think many people would agree. Besides, having two pointing devices really seems like a hack doesn't it?).
I am of course the opposite, I'm glad they have Thinkpads with *only* a trackpoint. Although it might be possible to disable the touchpad and use only the trackpoint (I hope you can do this at least), I think the touchpad is a waste of space. It's nice that on their ultra-portable (X series) you can get one with a trackpoint only.
You can pull the rubber eraser off of the trackpoint. It'll still be there (in the form of the plastic that rubber goes on top of), but I think it'll be mostly out of your way and your fingers will be less likely to trip on it. I'm not sure if you can specifically disable the trackpoint so that only the touchpad is active (or vice versa), but it would me nice if you could.
Why do you want a DVD? (Score:2)
I might understand wanting blue ray but DVDs are no longer worth the weight. Software installs are rare and Thinkpads can boot off firewire. If you need to share information with the clueless, carry a GNU/Linux CD so you can use someone else's DVD to copy the information by network. If you really want to watch movies, you have figured out how to put them on more reasonable media already. I've got a much older Thinkpad subnotebook that does not have an optical drive. I've only missed it once or twice ov
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Re:The thinkpad pretty much spanks the Air (Score:4, Interesting)
Case design: which case is more robust? Is Apple's metal case better suited for a thin notebook or is Lenovo's ThinkPad design better suited for fitting in your briefcase? Oh, and what about the power brick? Those few minutes untangling a power cord when setting up for a long meeting can be important. Design means not only looks, but also workflow and durability of the components.
Apropos meetings: which of the two is easier to use to make a presentation with a strange beamer? How about logging into a free WiFi hotspot? Sharing files?
Workflow: which job type would benefit from which computer? Although reporters and writers seem to be the target of both computers, what about sales reps? Developers and support techs who go to their clients? If your company uses Lotus Domino servers, will the MacBook Air make your IT staff nervous?
Now, I really don't know the answers, but these questions are what I feel makes the decision important. I own both a PowerBook and a ThinkPad, and though the ThinkPad is newer and has a better screen, etc., I still prefer to work with the PowerBook. It simply fits my workflow better.
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I still prefer to work with the PowerBook. It simply fits my workflow better.
I knew that as soon as I saw the original mention of "workflow" that you were a Mac user and going down to the last paragraph it was confirmed. I hope this doesn't come across as hostile... WTF is it with the workflow meme and Mac users? Is it some sort of graphic design jargon that is now "in" among the ultra-hip Mac user community? The rest of the computer world simp
Workflow versus process (Score:3, Insightful)
Why workflow? Well, because in a job like mine (web and print design), you work on sets of processes in a team. Pictures are developed by one, programming by another, writing and copy editing by a third, and so on. Lots of little processes that often mean having 4 or 5 apps open at the same time, and flipping back and forth, and having to keep the hand-offs in mind.
That's the real advantage of the Mac for many of us: it reduces the time spent in menus and dialog boxes. For a longer proce
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When are you guys going to realize that most people care about more than a spec sheet? I think the Air sucks too, but it's for wealthy non-technical people to check their e-mail on the couch. If it was for real work, then they would have put a better battery in it, and it would have been heavier and bigger, and then it would just be a really expensive MacBook.
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What's the difference between a removable battery and an external battery? Nothing for travelling - they're the same weight, arguably the external battery is easier to use. What's the weight of the power adaptor - other Thinkpads
But There's No Illusion of Thin (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple really pulled off a magic trick with the Air. Marketing genius.
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Then again, I must disclaim my statements with the following revelations about my tastes in general. I enjoyed Cloverfield and look forward to purchasing the DVD, I liked the
Thin matters only to a subset of professionals (Score:3, Informative)
I feel Lenovo and Apple are aiming to two different sorts of professional users. Apple is geared more towards the writers and mobile creatives, and the workflow the MacBook Air is supposed to fit into is one where the user has a larger "mothership
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When I compared the photo's of Leveno's and Apple's computers, Apple's was the one that just by looking at it, advertised "I'm thin, look at me!!!" which is great advertising. I w
Re:But There's No Illusion of Thin (Score:5, Informative)
Wake up (at 4am) and quickly check e-mail and print boarding pass. Off to the airport. Check e-mail again while waiting to board. Get on plane. Cruising altitude reached, so out comes the laptop and start working on that presentation (here's where battery life and being able to replace that battery when it dies comes in). Arrive at destination, and off to client. Arrive at client and walk straight into meeting. Hook up laptop up to projector (here' where all of those external ports come into play). Meeting finishes. You do some more things at a guest cubicle. You break out a mouse for comfort (1 usb port) then someone comes by with a document on a memory stick (need another usb port, but the Air is all out of 'em) They want you to view a presentation that's on DVD or VCD (here's where that optical drive comes in handy and not so you can watch a hollywood movie - there's no time for that). End of day, go back to hotel. You need the internet. No wireless here, so it's gotta be wired (yeah that wired ethernet port really comes in handy right about now). Go to sleep.
So let's recap. What is really important to a globetrotting exec? Versatility. You need lots of standard ports (VGA, lots of USB, etc.) and an optical drive, which Air doesn't have. You need reliable battery life. This means that when the battery is dead, as in won't hold it's charge, you can replace that battery. My 1 year old Dell already has 32% health, which means 1 hour of battery life. Tomorrow when I'm actually in the same state as my office, I'll pick up a new one and off I go. Air does not have a removeable battery. And at the end of the day, you need durability. Usually I'm not checking my laptop (or anything) with the airlines, but it gets crammed in to overhead bins, kicked under the seat, thrown into TSA x-ray bins, dropped, bumped, etc. ThinkPads are known for their durability. I can't speak for Mac on this, so I won't knock the Air for this, but it is a concern for the globetrotter. In closing, your CEO is not a good example of the globetrotting exec. A real globetrotting exec demands much more from their laptop.
Critics! (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe, Apple knows what its customers want and builds their machines for what most of their customers and not for the critics? And, well looky there, you can configure the machine to include those features. [apple.com] Why does everything have to be built in? And the Thnkpad is making compromises to have those things built in. God!
Not that I'm a fanboy or anything, it's just that these tech "journalists" piss me off sometimes.
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Different devices for different people
That word does not mean what you think it means (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you mean "you can configure the box the machine ships in to include those features". Because all those devices are external to the machine.
Generally speaking, it's safe to assume that anyone wanting a super-mobile computer like an Air or this ThinkPad doesn't want to have wires and dongles they have to carry in their bag and/or hanging off the computer. I know with the Dell's we buy at work, the fact that the Latitude D400 series super-mobile only has an external optical drive is often a deal-breaker for the users. They'd rather a bigger/heavier unit that includes everything in one piece.
64 gigabytes of storage - Not so bad (Score:2)
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Complaints: (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing has a 13" screen and weighs more than 3 pounds. What niche is this trying to target? Other members of the X-series have 12.1" screens, and one of those has a beginning weight of 2.8lbs. I'd imagine the extra inch of screen would be more of an issue than the half-pound, but still.
Must purchase an OEM copy of either XP or Vista. R and T Series Thinkpads are being sold with the option of SuSE Enterprise Desktop 10, so why not the X Series?
Regarding the article:
No mention of a possible entry in the Reserve Series (and with the base price for the "standard" X300, who wouldn't want to pay $5,000 for a laptop!?)
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The Macbook Air has no DVD drive. The 12.1" X-series notebooks have no DVD drive and are only 1024x768.
Better Value (Score:2)
should be rewritten - "the biggest downside: it is not available with a low cost hard disk"
Really, it is about the same price as the Air when configured the same, but the extra ports would be worth and additional $500 to me(and many others), so, I think it is a better value.
"the X300 isn't as skinny or sexy as the Apple" (Score:2)
I don't like designer-gadgets. I fo myself like techy looking cyberpunky devices, full with intellingent functions made in high quality. For me is the x300 the sexy one, not the AirBook, which lacks a crude technical design, and much worse, functionality for an geek.
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Apple != Orange (Score:2)
So it will start at between $2,500 and $2,800-up to $1,000 more than the Apple's base price-and will be limited to a paltry 64 gigabytes of storage.
Mossberg here really shows us here what it takes to be an anal-ist. This kind of trollism is just as bad from the Mac bashers or fanbois. It really takes a double-dose of style-over-substance to pick the non-wallet-gulping version of the MacBook Air. If anyone here is thinking of buying the AirBook, they are certainly thinking about the solid-state version.
not surprising (Score:3, Interesting)
Last summer I priced an HP laptop and Apple laptop. I needed a very light, yet powerful, machine, so I went with a 15" pro machine on both sides. Depending on what considered equivalent, the HP machine was 500-1000 more. It is anecdotal, but still a data point. The point is that Apple has gotten very efficient, and regular PC OEMs have a very hard time competing with them on the price/quality ratio. About the only thing apple does not have is the competitive $500 headless laptop. The Mac Mini is a joke, and the iMacs are over priced if one does not really need a fancy monitor.
Too tiny (Score:2)
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1. I can't speak to the Air, but the thinkpads are anything but 'flimsy'. My old vaio felt like a sodden pizza box compared to the Thinkpad. It simply doesn't flex.
2. Yes it's a bit wee, but used as a tablet, it's perfectly sized. Which brings us to:
3. If you want to hold a 10lb box in one arm as you draw with the other, you're insane. Or governor of California.
I disagree, the Thinkpad is beautiful. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:I disagree, the Thinkpad is beautiful. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I disagree, the Thinkpad is beautiful. (Score:5, Funny)
Gave you a good position to throw the thing from when you realized there was no floppy drive...
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Re:I disagree, the Thinkpad is beautiful. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:I disagree, the Thinkpad is beautiful. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I disagree, the Thinkpad is beautiful. (Score:5, Insightful)
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The MBA (and MBP) aren't silver-painted plastic (except for the touchpad), they're anodized aluminum. I'd rather have a natural metal finish than yet more black plastic, although ThinkPads are about as nice as non-Apple laptops get.
Largely agree with you on the glossy screens, though.
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Maybe your business doesn't involve travel, but balance-on-your-knee usability is precisely what many of us demand of a business laptop. And, even more so, balance-on-your-coach-section-tray-table usability, where Macs particularly shine over the space-inefficient lid hinges on Thinkpads. (At least the older Thinkpads I've worked with. I have no idea about this model.)
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Apple's stuff holds up much better, though. Take a look at what they were doing in 1991 [wikimedia.org]! How many other makes 1991 model could you take to a coffee shop today without too many stares? Now walk in with this bad boy [zxspectrum.de]! And that's 2 years younger!
But more to the point, who still uses a computer from 1998-99? 6 years is about the max I've ever been able to pull off.
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The iMac G4 'sunflower' model? I really liked that design. Not so much the G5 and onwards iMacs (although the latest black and aluminium ones don't look quite so bad.
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Yes, exactly like those.
Did you have a point?
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I found the Mac laptop nice (certainly, for a woman or child's computer).
It's the very old designs I don't favour - the Mac Classic II, Color Classic
Re:I disagree, the Thinkpad is beautiful. (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it still indestructible? (Score:3, Insightful)
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Nothing is more beautiful in my eyes than a machine which does it's job well day after day. It's simple, it's[Thinkpad] rugged, it's the best laptop series that was ever produced.
Actually, according to Consumer Reports, Thinkpad machines have a higher failure rate than Macbooks. In fact, for the second half of 2006, Dell's laptops had a lower failure rate than Thinkpads (crazy how things change huh, Dell's desktops are still below average though). So if you're looking for "rugged" as a criteria the Thinkpad is not the winner. That said, Thinkpads are nice systems. As far as comparing compact super-thin systems... well I don't really care. In fact, I think the emphasis on thin is a
elegant and clean, but less enjoyable, design flaw (Score:3, Interesting)
I have had the 600e, the x23, and now the x61s.
The xseries, is thin already, not a problem.
my experience with x61s.
What I am more concerned about is the following:
1. heat = its warmer than the previous models.
better cpu's, at the cost of heat.
you can feel it frying your hand.
and then you turn on the wifi.. oh boy.
2. noisy = the fans are louder than previous models
3. material = the previo
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Good luck getting drivers (Score:2)
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Boxy is Beautiful. If you want over-styled machines with a sluggish UI, be my guest. I prefer more a more clean and less cluttered experience.
Yeah but we're not talking about Vista here, we're talking about Mac OS? ;)
I have a Macbook Pro and the interface for MacOS is much cleaner than XP and Vista. I have a dual boot into XP Pro for happier integration into the domain at work, but at home I'm starting to use Mac OS more and more. I like having a proper UNIX derived terminal, and it's great for stuff like watching movies as I can get from being powered down, to the desktop far quicker in MacOS. When it comes to actually viewing media, frontro
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Personally, you can take those grey shells that Dell, Toshiba and Sony pump out and shove them - they have never had any design done on them at all, clearly.
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So, tell me how exciting the macbook is again.
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Re:apple fanbois (Score:5, Funny)
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(Disclaimer Pt. 2: I'm typing this on an iBook G4, which is rapidly becoming my main machine.)
(Disclaimer Pt. 3: I'm a bit of a ThinkPad fanboy. If I could only get OSx86 running on my ThinkPad X61 Tablet...)
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The Pro line of apple laptops has been about the same, too (that's what I use). I wouldn't dream of taking the sub-$1000 boxes around with me all day. On the PC line, it'd be a good thinkpad or a well-built toshiba.
Maybe I'm just old and prejud
Re:ThinkPads have always been expsensive (Score:5, Insightful)
However, speaking to the quality of current Thinkpads... my cat managed to knock my T61 off my desk a couple weeks ago. It fell four feet or so on to a hardwood floor.
There's a ding on the floor. My Thinkpad is fine.
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http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=93 [lenovoblogs.com]
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I've only had toshibas, one felt from my hands while I was writing on the hard drive, bounce on the floor and kept working for 2 more years with no problem (of course 3 years for a computer that was totally abused, I think is great). My current laptop is a Toshiba, and I'll keep buying them.
The reason why I buy them? Different than Apple's they.. really.. just work. Recently, to take their prices down, they fill them with tons of bloatwa
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For what it's worth Lenovo 3000s are fairly impressive for consumer notebooks. I wouldn't buy one, but they're solid and well-constructed. I'd put them ahead of any current Dell Vostro/Inspiron model or non-pro Macbook.
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I'm not rough on laptops, but I'm a heavy user. On my laptops, the labels on the most used keys are worn off in about eighteen months. Even if you are careful, you encounter quite a few mishaps when you use laptops like I do, like the time my laptop fell off a 3 1/2 foot tall lab bench onto a concrete floor while doing a long database transaction, and carried on.
I feel I've always got good use value of my Thinkpads, although I haven't bought a Lenovo brande
Re:ThinkPads have always been expsensive (Score:5, Insightful)
You can throw them in a bag (from being turned on all night working on a presentation) and then check them into your baggage, have the baggage claim people beat the snot out of them, you drag your computer on the ground with some actually luggable luggage and bash them into the back of a cab, up 14 flights of stairs banging it on each step on the way, then throw it down on the expensive mahogany table and open it up and...
The damn thing still works.
IBM doesn't make the most cutting edge stuff. They make the most cost-effective, durable, laptops out there. I don't care about that so-called 'rugged' PC from Toshiba. No VP is going to take that ugly pile to a conference. But an IBM with it's matte black exterior and classic looks, not to mention it matches their suit, they will pick over and over again.
I have used the new T61 laptops as well--and besides being as heavy as a brick--they are quite the little powerhouses. Ubuntu runs on them just dandy, all the hardware detected upon install.
Your Air? Yeah. It looks pretty, but I guarantee that thing will break within a day of giving it to a VP. It would maybe last 15 seconds going through ATL on the way to ORD through CLE. The design of the Air--to me--just screams cheap and flimsy. Pretty, but flimsy.
Re:ThinkPads have always been expsensive (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously though, if you have ever actually handled one of these those fears disappear pretty quickly. I've configured two of them in the last week and they are surprisingly solid.
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Well, now I do.
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