Dvorak Says gPhone is Doomed 454
drewmoney writes "Speaking with his usual frustrated crankiness John Dvorak rants his way through an article explaining why the gPhone will never work. 'First of all, it wants to put Google search on a phone. It wants to do this because it is obvious to the folks at Google that people need to do Web searches from their phone, so they can, uh, get directions to the restaurant? Of course, they can simply use the phone itself to call the restaurant and ask! I've actually used various phones with Web capability. They never work right. They take forever to navigate. It's hard to read the screens ... I also hope that people note the fact that the public has not been flocking to smartphones of any sort.' "
Really? (Score:5, Funny)
Rly (Score:5, Insightful)
So John says nobody is flocking to smart-phones, ergo Google is d00med to failure. Gosh. Maybe it's because the other smartphones didn't have something Google's will. I seem to recall many phones which played music and did a variety of other tasks not going anywhere until Apple launched the iPhone.
Re:Rly (Score:5, Funny)
"First of all, it wants to put Google search on a phone. It wants to do this because it is obvious to the folks at Google that people need to do Web searches from their phone, so they can, uh, get directions to the restaurant? Of course, they can simply use the phone itself to call the restaurant and ask!"
Sounds like the parody [slashdot.org] I did of Dvorak a while back:
"Starbucks needs drive-up windows because they are planning to bring that same environment to your vehicle! That's right, Starbucks wants to give you that same coffee-saturated, easy listening, comfortable seating feeling you get in their stores, but in your car. [...] Starbucks is going to make cars."
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Besides, you're even less likely to know a restaurant's phone number than its location. If you're going to call them
Re:Rly (Score:4, Informative)
Google has already taken care of that too: 1-800-GOOG-411 [google.com]
From the link:
And he bypasses an obvious issue (Score:5, Insightful)
The advantage Apple has with the iPhone is that they control the entire platform. They've got custom built hardware running a custom operating system with their custom software. It is all built from the ground up to work as an integrated phone, and thus it works pretty damn well. It also does a lot to mitigate some of the major form factor issues that make most smart phones a pain to use. But mostly it's good because it's all meant to work together.
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Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
but his gripe about not able to read web content on phones is really just a problem of people not generating format for phone use. He should spend a few weeks or months in Japan and use their system.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Entertainment (Score:5, Funny)
In other words, he's somewhere between Fox News and World Wrestling Entertainment.
-kgj
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- There is no released product
- A bunch of companies just jumped on the press release bandwagon
- Google is awesome from a Wall Street standpoint and engineers are dying to work there, but they don't have products that are "cool to use" - like you see people thinking they are hot s
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Really? (Score:4, Funny)
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You sir, have hit the nail on the head, I think.
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Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Really? (Score:5, Informative)
Disclaimer: I do not work for any of the companies or providers I'm about to mention. I am an end user in every respect, with regards to this discussion, however technically adept.
I own a Treo 700wx, running Windows Mobile, on Verizon's network, with an unlimited usage EVDO data plan. However much Microsoft tends to piss me off, this is the single most useful phone I've ever owned, and that is largely because of the Google Maps application I installed on it, post purchase.
The ability to lookup anything puts real value into the money I spend on a data plan for the phone. Combined with an I-blue Bluetooth GPS receiver (that happily goes to sleep when you're not talking to it), I can search for anything around my current location, like a bank, an ATM, a restaurant, a car repair place, and get it on a map, and save the contact information directly to my phonebook. It's one more option to get driving directions from my current location to the selected destination, without calling anyone, including a pay-per-use 411 style information service.
Search on a smartphone works. Period. Google did it right. I don't blame them one bit for finding a way to monetize it and leverage what is already an excellent service offering. I haven't cracked a phone book in years to begin with. They pile up on my porch and get used in my fireplace.
Google Maps on iPhone / Google SMS (Score:4, Interesting)
Even before the iPhone, I used Google SMS in pretty much the exact same way. (iPhone is better with the map, however!)
Absolutely, positively agreed (Score:3, Interesting)
Google is the first provider I've seen get this right, and they did it on somebody else's generic, crappy hardware and OS. If google's phone platform is anything like their existing mobile app, I don't think they'll have any trouble. With
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Hehe, too funny:
Dvorak to Apple - Stop The iPhone [slashdot.org]
How did I find this gem? Clicking the "idiot" tag to see how many Dvorak articles pop up.
Dvorak (Score:5, Funny)
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Though this is rich.
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I think he has a point- 14.1" laptop screens are cramped enough even with my thinkpad's 1400x1050 resolution.. I positively shudder to think what it would feel like to read slashdot on a 3 inch screen at a fifth of that resolution.
Are you having "useability" as a yardstick? Silly you. It's all about having an electronic toy that convince
A) Geeks that they will now outrank other geeks.
B) Non-geeks that they are now cooler than other non-geeks.
C) Geeks that having an ubercool toy will get them sex with a non-geek.
Re:Dvorak (Score:4, Funny)
Are you having "useability" as a yardstick? Silly you. It's all about having an electronic toy that convince
A) Geeks that they will now outrank other geeks.
B) Non-geeks that they are now cooler than other non-geeks.
C) Geeks that having an ubercool toy will get them sex with a non-geek.
I don't have any mod points today, but if I did, I'd mod this funny and interesting. Not sure how I'd do that but I'd try it.
By the way, sex with a non-geek isn't all that exciting. Just ask my wife......
Re:Dvorak (Score:5, Funny)
Doomed for another reason... (Score:2, Insightful)
Stop trying to rehash the old and make something new.
Re:Doomed for another reason... (Score:5, Insightful)
Damned armchair inventors, entrepreneurs, and capitalists.
hrumph.
Re:Doomed for another reason... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Doomed for another reason... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Doomed for another reason... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Doomed for another reason... (Score:4, Interesting)
Layne
Re:Doomed for another reason... (Score:4, Insightful)
Search? - Already done, Google did it better. (Although they were closer to the frontier on this one)
Web-based email? - Done for years (including entries by Microsoft), then Google took the concept and tweaked it and refined it, now it's the leader in the market.
Web-based mapping? - Mapquest used to dominate, there were a few other entries into the market, now Google Maps dominates.
Admittedly in both the web-based email and web-based mapping markets, MS has shaped up their act a LOT, partly because Google has forced them to do so. As far as mobile local search, I actually prefer Windows Live Search Mobile to Google Maps Mobile on my AT&T Tilt. WLS Mobile *rocks*.
I suspect the same will happen with Android. They'll take the already reasonably well established concept of the smartphone (Symbian, Palm, Windows Mobile), and do what they've done in every market - simply *do it better*.
"It wants to do this because it is obvious to the folks at Google that people need to do Web searches from their phone, so they can, uh, get directions to the restaurant? Of course, they can simply use the phone itself to call the restaurant and ask! I've actually used various phones with Web capability."
1) How can you call the restaurant if you don't know their number? (hint: get the number from the Web, or a specialized local search such as Google Maps Mobile or Windows Live Search Mobile.)
2) What if you miss a turn? TomTom and Garmin mapping devices are selling like hotcakes for a reason... It's a lot easier to hit a few buttons on your GPS (or click "directions" in GMM or WLSM) than it is to write down and follow the restaurant's directions.
3) How do you determine the restaurant's existence in the first place? You've just flown into town on a business trip, you feel like pizza. Where's the nearest pizza place??? GMM or WLSM will tell you that, and I bet whatever localized search capability Google puts into Android will do it even better.
4) Dvorak needs to define "phones with Web capability" more precisely. Was he using a $20 Motorola C168i (it has a web browser, albeit an utterly awful and nearly useless one), a Windows Mobile device (Pocket IE is OK, Opera is much better), or an iPhone? Expect the Android experience to fall closer to the iPhone end of the spectrum.
"That was the problem with the Danger and its successor, the Hiptop handset. They were clunky."
Clunky or not, they're apparently selling well and a big attraction to T-Mobile. They definately haven't flopped, T-Mo just released not one but *two* new Sidekick variants.
"People have had eons to program for the Windows smartphones and nothing has come of it."
There seem to be plenty of applications for WM that I can download and/or buy. Yeah a lot of them are crap, but many are gems. See my above comments about GMM and WLSM - both kick ass. Now if only I could have WLSM's search capability combined with TomTom's user interface (TT's POI database and POI search capability sucks, but most other aspects of TT are amazing.)
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And if there is a marketplace that has desperately needed real innovation, this is it. Apple made smart phones sexy and usable, I'd like to see what happens next.
Bigger picture (Score:5, Insightful)
See this within the totality of what Google's trying to do. Right now, the American cell market is locked down by the providers, such that most phones are tied to a contract. Americans can't just buy a new phone and swap their SIM cards particularly easily. And even then, it wouldn't get much since all the providers suck anyway.
This situation hampers Google. It's hard for them to develop for the mobile environment on another company's system because the stuff's locked down. So if they're going to do it, they pretty much have to do it themselves. Add in the spectre of broadband companies demanding ransom not to throttle Google's traffic (absent net neutrality legislation), and Google is at the mercy of other companies who are between them and their users.
So first, Google liberates the phone, and makes it an open platform, not locked down. Then Google buys a whole lot of 700MHz spectrum and builds a network that they can use, possibly for the phone but also new efforts. Probably wireless data, possibly a means of distributing other content as well. Also consider the portable data centers Google has been designing.
One could begin to see how Google might be on the verge of doing something very big. Google already has the content and useful applications for exploring the content. Now they need to be able to find better ways of getting that content to their users. Developing a phone, wireless capability, and backbone capacity would allow them to completely cut out the middleman.
Re:Bigger picture (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't see how Google can "liberate" the phone in the American cellular market at all. Even if they make an open phone, most providers won't allow you to use it, and the networks are incompatible anyway. The only way Google can succeed is by going whole-hog at the outset, by becoming their own provider, or buying out one of the other providers. This would probably require too much capital, and is unlikely to succeed.
Google could succeed if they simply abandoned the American market altogether with this phone plan, and just concentrated on foreign countries (i.e., the rest of the world where GSM is the standard and phones aren't locked in to providers). I think we Americans are just screwed on mobile phone technology for the next 50 years or so.
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All they have to do is make it suck less (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway all google has to do is make their phone suck less than
gPhone != Itanium (Score:5, Insightful)
1) will it arrive years late?
2) will it perform as promised or be lackluster?
3) will it shoot google's existing product lineup in the foot?
I don't think these three will occur.
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So, is the googlephone going to be held back by demands of compatibility with existing phone software?
Dvorak is a retard (Score:4, Insightful)
iPhone? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Counterpoint (Score:2)
Since lots of people have third party apps loaded on iPhones today, the only conclusion it is possibly to reach is that you are an idiot. No, I take that back - a blithering idiot. Or should that be blathering, since your sort keeps talking about how you can't load apps in the face of clear evidence you can in every single story that mentions the iPhone, no matter how tangentially?
Either way, I guess what I'm trying to say is that you
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1.4 million bought (Score:5, Informative)
At last count 1.4 million bought at $400 or $600. And that is just the US.
Re:iPhone? (Score:5, Insightful)
Fortunately for Google, Apple got a lot of other shit terribly wrong with the iPhone (lack of openness, lack of SDK, getting deeply in bed with carrier and offering no premium price unlocked phone, spending all of engineering's resources fighting unlockers rather than developing the features and applications people actually want for their phones). This is the only reason Google has such a big opportunity here.
But apple solves for that sooner than Google. (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember that carrier portability simply does not matter to that many p
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While Android won't give you cool new features you can't already get in Windows Mobile, you will get those features with far more polish in the Google version.
See, for example, Gmail vs. pre-Gmail-Hotmail. No real new major "features", just an unbelievable amount of user interface polish.
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So what? People are buying Zunes too. You wouldn't say people are flocking to those, would you?
So "public has not been flocking to smartphones" - yeah if you live under a rock somewhere that may be true...
Maybe not under a rock, but on top of one like, say, Earth, then yes, its true. The smartphones are a tiny tiny fraction of the market.
The public *has* flocked to camera phones and text messaging, but smartphones?
ugh (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm wondering if Firefox's upcoming mobile browser effort has had a chance to be invited to the party, given Google distributing Firefox in their windows software GooglePack.
On the subject of tags (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:On the subject of tags (Score:5, Funny)
'Dvork'
'Dveeb'
'Dvumb'
'Dvick'
or just simply
Dvorak?
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l00b?
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Has-been?
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It rhymes, sounds insulting and it can stand for "Grumpy, Obsolete Old Bastard".
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So Wrong (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't know, but I think there's over a million iPhone owners who might disagree with you, Mr. Dvorak. That said, I suspect there's more than just iPhone owners who would also disagree with him but that's par for the course.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-iphone-is-not-a-smartphone/ [engadget.com]
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/11/08/smartphones_q/ [publicradio.org]
However, Blackberries are pretty darn popular from what I can tell. I think Treos would be popular too if they weren't so crash-prone.
Crazy Old Man (Score:2, Funny)
Success?!?! (Score:3, Insightful)
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Dvorak on Success (Score:3, Insightful)
Himself.
As long as someone is still reading/listening, he's doing it.
He makes no sense (Score:4, Insightful)
If Google can streamline the internet experience, as well as create a Linux-based platform where I could sync my PIM functions with Google services and Thunderbird/Evolution via the internet, with little difficulty, I'd jump on it in a second, and so would thousands of other people. Tens of thousands more would follow because they'd want the latest gadget.
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Those people will still be bitter (and enslaved to a contract) after getting screwed [macnn.com] by Steve Jobs.
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Another feature I've installed is google maps. Simply an amazing app for the Blackjack. I use it almost daily.
Can someone please... (Score:5, Insightful)
If the gPhone fails, it will be for the same reason that any phone fails, CARRIERS in North America SUCK. I personally use the SideKick, and for several years now have yet to see anyone say that it is a waste, and not cool. Many of my friends have smart phones and use the PDA functions regularly. When carriers start marketing them to the average joe (see the new sidekick) it will begin to be more common than it already is. There will always be people that buy cheap, utilitarian devices only. See the throw away cameras in the grocery store still? Why? That is how people spend money.
Yes, there is a reason for search other than getting directions... I can disply a MAP also. I have used it to look up exotic drink mixes when a bartender did not know the recipe (no comments on that one) as well as many other uses that don't even touch on the value of a qwerty keyboard when replying to an SMS or email.
Sorry to Dvorak fans, but this guy is a putz.
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CARRIERS in North America SUCK
Good observation... What can you use a great smartphone or PDA for if your carrier sucks? Sometimes I think that device manufacturers should sue carriers for destroying a market with huge potential. Carriers suck even here in EU, so no this is not just a US phenomenon. I think the reason carriers suck is because they don't face competition from free communities run by citizens. People use their WiFi to set up community networks, but this cannot be done with GPRS or 3G because the governments (FCC et
Its all in the name... (Score:5, Funny)
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that's the nice thing about being a pundit (Score:2)
It's not about search.... (Score:3, Funny)
Just call the restaurant? (Score:5, Insightful)
oh, right.
Thanks Dvorak, you missed the point.
[1] If you haven't tried 1-800-GOOG-411 ; it's pretty awesome for getting said phone numbers, and automatically connecting you if you like. Tied in to a phone with Google Maps and GPS/e911? Beauty and ease. My only concern is how Google will monetize the cell phone space; even sponsored text ads would be seriously annoying being read to you by a machine voice, slowly, on Goog411, and would take up even more valuable screenestate on a phone.
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Stone age? (Score:2)
Why are people still reading Dvorak? (Score:4, Insightful)
We can do better flamebaits and trolls than John. And we have a better handle on tech issues. I am sure even the most flamebait/troll modded asinine juvenile here has better grasp of tech issues than John. Given the pagerank of /. the flames here have wider readership than his articles. So why bother reading what he is blabbering about?
Dorkvorak at it again? (Score:3, Insightful)
Is "frustrated crankiness" the new corporate-speak for "stupid jackass ways"?
maybe phones need a dvorak keyboard (Score:5, Funny)
Thats funny... (Score:4, Funny)
Go figure.
Text messaging (Score:3, Insightful)
If Google can create an open platform and include great services like GMail, the SMS scam will die. Google stands to become very successful, just from this.
Dvorak at his finest (Score:3, Insightful)
. . . and by "finest" I mean "stupidity as usual".
Duh. What did he think Google would put on it? Microsoft's search engine?
Ok smartass, what's the phone number of the restaurant? Oh, you mean you have to search [google.com] for it? Or better yet, just get directions yourself [google.com].
Says you. My browser (Blazer on Treo) seems to work adequately. So does the browser on my friend's Symbian phone. If you believe some iPhone user's, Safari is the second coming.
What smartphones have you actually used, mister I write about technology so I should probably try out a wide variety before writing about it.
Which is why of course we rarely see people with Blackberries, Treo's or any of a dozen other smartphones. The iPhone alone has made such a quick entrance into popular culture that I've already seen it on two TV shows (Mythbusters and The Colbert Report).
Did I read this right? (Score:2)
When all is said and done, Google is actually not a charismatic company that can make this new platform happen in a big way. Google hopes that people will code new applications for the phone. People have had eons to program for the Windows smartphones and nothing has come of it. What's so different now?
What? How does that compute? And why would he compare programming Windows smartphones to the Google phone? First off, the phone does not exist yet -- Google is just trying to create buzz and stir up interest. I think they already have a pretty good start on this, and won't roll it out until they've worked with a few other companies to stack the phone with features/functionality. As he does far too often, Dvorak is blowing smoke. He's not to be taken seriously as a technology predictor.
Right. Google on a phone is useless. (Score:2)
Yup, totally useless. Doesn't save me money on 411 calls that might not work AT ALL.
He can't even put the keys on a keyboard right (Score:3, Funny)
Has Dvorak even used Mobile Google maps? (Score:3, Informative)
If you are on Verizon that means you are screwed since they Hacked out java.
Maybe all he's used is yahoo maps on his phone.. Thats about as painful as hacking your arm off with a dull butter knife.. it sucks!
I use my Windows Mobile phone all the time for doing web searches, looking up addresses and all kinda of other stuff.
If the Gphone has a good browser like Mini Mo,GPS, can sync Gmail it'll be good..
If it can't do active sync with exchange over the network it'll never catch on with big business..
Not a huge deal there.. the Iphone is doing quite well without them.
maps on a phone is useful (Score:2)
and you get the number for the restaurant by googling for it -- more conveniently on your phone than at home, before you leave. Besides, even if I had a portable phone with numbers to my favourite restaurants, many of these don't speak English as a first language. Looking it up on a map is pretty easy and unambiguous.
Attention whore. (Score:2)
Goddamn, he even said he is one himself. Why is that fucktard repeatedly featured here? It's not like he has any significance.
dvorak's right - nobody's buying smartphones (Score:2)
Don't Click the Link! (Score:5, Insightful)
Obviously never even seen an iPhone (Score:3, Insightful)
>I've actually used various phones with Web capability. They never work right.
The iPhone works perfectly.
>They take forever to navigate.
Navigation is incredibly intuitive. It's almost even fun.
>It's hard to read the screens.
The screen is large, high resolution, high contrast, and incredibly crisp and readable.
>If there are a lot of images, the page may never load.
The page always loads.
>No matter what browser you use, there are issues.
Safari on the iPhone works as well as Safari on a Mac.
>In short, the experience sucks.
The experience is awesome. I use my iPhone for the web more then I use it for a phone. Hell, I almost use it for the web more than I use my laptop.
So right off, he's completely misunderstood the potential for smartphones, and obviously never used a good one. And Google is not staffed by moron's I'm fairly sure they can get this right, or at least not completely screw it up.
In addition to completely misundestanding what's available and possible with an smartphone, he's obviously completely people, and what they want:
%gt; o what is Google trying to do with a phone? First of all, it wants to put Google search on a phone. It wants to do this because it is obvious to the folks at Google that people need to do Web searches from their phone, so they can, uh, get directions to the restaurant? Of course, they can simply use the phone itself to call the restaurant and ask!
Seriosuly? You want people to call 411 to get the restaurant's number, call teh restaurant, ask for direction from someone who doesn't really understand where you are, copy them down, hope they're right, and then call again when they get lost of the way? I use my iPhone for web-based directions all the time. In fact, it was one of the major selling points. II just click on map, seach for where I want to go, and hit directions. I instantly have directions in an easy to read list and accompanying map. If I miss a turn on the way, I can look at the map to figure out where I am. And I never have to have an awkward conversation with someone I don't know who doesn't know where I am or the best way to get to the restaurant from my house.
Dvorak in a complete moron.
>There are no Google fanboys. There are no Google addicts
Seriosuly?
>... Google is actually not a charismatic company
Seriously??
Blargh! My head is going to explode with how stupid this column is! Has Dvorak ever even been online? Or ever talked to a person? Or ever used any kind of technology ever? Ackkkk! The Mind boggles! He's made me overuse exclamation points he's so dumb!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If Dvorak posts in a news group, does anyone really care?
-Rick
Re:Is it just me.. (Score:5, Funny)
Some people love attention and once they get it will rattle off whatever is on their minds. Other people (media) will actually record these ramblings and present them as news in the hopes others will read their content, then flip to the ads and give business to one of their advertisers.
Worst of all, onece it makes it to slashdot, someone will do this:
In Soviet Russia phone dooms YOU!
And hopefully that's were it all ends, but you never know, it may be picked up by 60 minutes or 20/20 and go on from there.