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Handhelds Linux Business Hardware

Linux Finds Its Way to More Handheld Devices 153

Posted by timothy from the promises-promises dept.
LXrider writes "The coolest new handheld to pick Linux as its OS is the Pepper Pad. This device was one of the most exciting products to be found at this year's otherwise lackluster C3 Expo in NYC. The Pepper Pad runs MontaVista Linux on a Intel XScale PXA270 (624 MHz) processor and it used for viewing multimedia, surfing the net, and controlling your home's electronics."
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Linux Finds Its Way to More Handheld Devices More

Linux Finds Its Way to More Handheld Devices

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  • Yes but... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    does it run Windows?

  • Free (as in beer and speech) mobile distributions (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Krankheit ( 830769 ) on Monday July 04, 2005 @07:40PM (#12982202)
    Any chance this would run other distributions like Debian, or maybe even a *BSD like NetBSD (I do know that OpenBSD runs on the PalmOne Treo 600)? I looked at the product section [mvista.com] of MontaVista Software and it seems to be a commercial distribution with no "community edition." The only thing close to free as in beer is the free preview kit [mvista.com] I wonder if it would be possible to apply their source packages to come up with a free (as in beer as well as speech) distribution, like CentOS did with RedHat Enterprise Linux. Does this already exist? I realize distribution maintainers need to eat, but I think the pricing model of Xandros would be better, if not a distribution like Debian or Slackware. OTOH, I see some Debian packages for cell phones here. [tuxmobil.org], and there is a page for *BSD on mobile devices (cell phones, PDA, laptops) here. [tuxmobil.org]
    • We went with MontaVista because, at the time, it was the best pre-compiled solution with RPM support that ran mostly out of the box. We're exploring other options and have used various cross-compilers to build binaries for the Pepper Pad. In theory, if another distribution will build, it will run. :)

      We're not officially working on any other distributions at the moment but we're exploring our options in our (lack of) spare time.
    • Dude, you're really confused. BSD doesn't run on the Treo 600. A quick googling shows a number of pages detailing how to use a Treo with a BSD system, as in, hotsynching or connecting to the internet. Likewise, those Debian packages don't run ON cell phones, they're just FOR cell phones (as in data exchange and mobile internet). Same with that last page, for BSD and mobile devices. You actually think BSD runs a Sony Ericsson T39, do you? I'd sure like to see that.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • "I do know that OpenBSD runs on the PalmOne Treo 600"

      I call bullshit. Show me a citation with working links to back up your assertion here please.

      The Treo 600 works WITH NetBSD, just like it works with Linux, FreeBSD, and OSX... but the Treo 600 does not RUN NetBSD... and nobody that I know of has ported it over to do so. I would know, I manage this little project [pilot-link.org], and I'd be one of the first to find this out.

  • Where's The Niche? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DanielMarkham ( 765899 ) on Monday July 04, 2005 @07:42PM (#12982208) Homepage
    This is a really neat product, especially the instant-on, waterproof characteristics, and the 20GB HD. But at $700, I couldn't help wonder where the market niche was supposed to be? It's significantly more than a PDA, yet it doesn't look to price-compete against low-end notebooks (perhaps it does?). It's definitely way cheaper than tablets, but then again tablets have a lot more input features. So I'm not sure where it's supposed to compete in the market. Am I supposed to buy it instead of my PDA? Or my notebook?

    Things NOT to look for in your staff [whattofix.com]
    • I have a Zaurus that I really like, and it would be a lot less of a niche machine if it didn't have Qtopia on it. Abandoning X for a lighter alternative was a real mistake by Sharp, and the adoption rate by developers was low. I haven't looked at this product yet, but if it's really a true Linux/X machine running from ROM then I could see a market for it. There are a lot of folks who want to have a "real" machine available to them but don't like the fact that laptops are so fragile.

      • Re:Where's The Niche? (Score:3, Informative)

        by arodland ( 127775 )
        What Zaurus? I haven't met a Z yet that wasn't able to run OpenZaurus, which nowadays gives you the choice of Opie (Qtopia but free), GPE (a GTK+ handheld environment), or TinyX. The only major caveat is that if you're running on a 5000D/5500, and I think maybe the 6000, then you're screwed for SD/MMC support.
        • I tried OZ about six months ago and was pretty unimpressed. The OS was behind the 3.10 ROM from Sharp from an application perspective. I couldn't find any kind of web browser. The focus seemed to be on PIM apps, but that's not of real interest to me unless I can sync. At the time I did the upgrade, there hadn't been a lot of activity on the OZ web site, making me wonder if there was any real dev activity going on. Looking at it now, it seems like it's still an active project.

          I have a 5500 and would l

          • For a web browser, there's Konq/E, or you can back up the copy of Opera on the original ROM. As far as remote stuff, you can do the X thing, or VNC. Don't know about rdesktop, but it's maybe there. :)

            I used to have a 5500, and I thought it was pretty sweet; I enjoyed being able to write and run perl on-the-go. Then I broke the screen. Oh well.
        • I've just got an iPaq rx3715 and I'd like to be able to run Linux on it. I have checked out the Handhelds.org [handhelds.org] pages to see if I can do it, but the man from Del Monte says No.

          Are there any other wonderful resources for iPaq Linux?
    • So I'm not sure where it's supposed to compete in the market. Am I supposed to buy it instead of my PDA? Or my notebook?

      Wireless ISPs buy webpads. There is also an industrial niche as well.

      • Wireless ISPs buy webpads. There is also an industrial niche as well.

        Did you take a look at the web page link? It's definitely not marketed towards any industrial niche.

        • It's definitely not marketed towards any industrial niche.

          The original question is who buys these things... not how are these guy's marketing department failing to hit the broad side of a barn from 10 feet with a loaded scatter gun.

    • Re:Where's The Niche? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by AvantLegion ( 595806 ) on Monday July 04, 2005 @08:23PM (#12982337) Journal
      Am I supposed to buy it instead of my PDA? Or my notebook?

      Where on earth is there written such a rule that computing has to be broken into such arbitrary boundaries?

      If you need more than a PDA, but not everything a tablet or notebook offers, then there ya go. Don't get so hung up on how things have been before.

    • Re:Where's The Niche? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by romka1 ( 891990 )
      My friend bought a new tablet pc for about 600 bucks and this cost 800 something

    • Re:Where's The Niche? (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I'm planning to buy one of these because a) I plan to use it as an e-book system, and b) I hope to get a developer's kit and write a couple programs that would be nice to have in a machine with this form factor. This mainly depends on good Linux development support from the manufacturer, but given that they're running Linux on it already that seems like a reasonable thing to expect.

      I'm guessing that this thing will only be as successful as the after-market software environment; if they make it easy to add
      • The thing that caught my eye was the Remote Control ...

        As the happy owner of a home theater, I have a few (8 or 9) remotes, the XBOX media player hitting the Linux Fileserver, then the amp itself, plus the various cd/tape player ...

        I was thinking of getting a cheap (lol) tablet pc, an extensible bathroom mirror handle and hack together a nifty all-in-one appliance to control everything from my couch, including email and VNC to the rest of the network (a few pcs, including ONE windows machine)...

        When you
    • IMHO this is just the reinvention of the internet appliance. It would be cool to have one, but I'd probably only get one if I had WAY TOO MUCH discretionary income.

  • PepperPad? (Score:3, Funny)

    by silentbozo ( 542534 ) on Monday July 04, 2005 @07:42PM (#12982209) Journal
    Oh yes, this marvel of engineering can be yours, for the low, low, price of $849.99.

    I like the packaging, and the use of open source. But for that price, I think I'll pass.

  • It may run Linux... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by akeyes ( 720106 ) <akeyes+slashdot AT gmail DOT com> on Monday July 04, 2005 @07:46PM (#12982220) Homepage
    ...but the video on the site requires Windows Media Player 9.

  • does it matter what OS is running? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rtphokie ( 518490 ) on Monday July 04, 2005 @07:48PM (#12982231)
    On a device like a handheld or even with a media PC or something? The underlying OS should be transparant to the user.

    • The OS makes a huge difference. Not because the user cares, but the developers who deliver applications certainly do. They want to know that there will be a large enough market for their applications, and there must be tools that are widely available. The Mac would have mopped up on the PC in the 80s if Apple had opened up their APIs and made product development easier. Microsoft gained huge market share by engaging developers.

      So yes, the OS absolutely matters.

  • Is it just me (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fussili ( 720463 ) on Monday July 04, 2005 @07:49PM (#12982234)
    Or does the keyboard seem nonsensically small?

    I don't get the point of taking the time to integrate a keyboard into a device like that and splitting it into a thumb-typer arrangement with itty-bitty buttons (the thumb is not the most agile or delicate of bodyparts).

    Have you seen some of the features? A substandard MP3 playing jukebox, the obligatory notepad etc. Can you install linux app packages? Is there access to a shell? It doesn't seem so.

    You'd have to gut it to install a linux OS that would be recognizable or put up with their own OS which doesn't exactly excite.

    • Re:Is it just me (Score:5, Informative)

      by `Sean ( 15328 ) <sean@ubuntu.com> on Monday July 04, 2005 @08:21PM (#12982332) Homepage Journal
      Can you install linux app packages? Is there access to a shell? It doesn't seem so.
      Yes, you can. And yes, there is. www.pepperhacks.com [pepperhacks.com]
      • Coolness :D nice link, no mod points but otherwise that'd get +Informative.

        Now if they'd do something about that keyboard It'd be pretty sweet.

        Some media playback with VLC seems a good way to go but that 800x600 screen seems a little lacklustre.

    • I don't get the point of taking the time to integrate a keyboard into a device like that and splitting it into a thumb-typer arrangement with itty-bitty buttons (the thumb is not the most agile or delicate of bodyparts).

      While I agree that the keys seem small, the thumb actually is very agile. How else do you suppose people could hold and enter data into the device? I think the arrangement is very clever.

  • Over priced, Under powered (Score:5, Interesting)

    by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Monday July 04, 2005 @07:50PM (#12982236) Homepage
    I think the idea is essentially good but it lacks some pretty essential goods:

    1. 2.4 kernel? C'mon! 2.6 is out... we like new crap.

    2. 800x600? Okay, it's good for a lot of people out there -- just not me. For something that small, I would want at least 1024x768, but a wide aspect display would be really nice too... if it had...

    3. DVD playback. This device really needs DVD playback and even video out to be really cool. It needs to be that headrest DVD player *and* be a computer too.

    4. 802.11g

    5. USB 2.0

    6. IEEE1394 (iLink, Firewire, whatever)

    7. Bluetooth

    A cheap laptop beats this thing all over the place except for being aimed at the consumer rather than the hacker. It would be REALLY nice if this thing could connect with a cell phone to exchange data (pictures, address book, etc) and gate itself to the internet. USB 2.0 and/or Firewire and/or Bluetooth would be among the best means by which a lot of this could happen.

    For this configuration of hardware, I think they could have saved a lot of money and development time by adopting a version of Knoppix for this thing. Pull out the packages you don't want, add a few that work for this hardware and lock down the UI so that people don't need to know it's Linux and you're good to go.

    An added advantage to having a DVD reader installed on this thing would be easy user updates/reloads -- it's a no brainer to insert a "factory reload" media, reboot and hold down some magical key combination eh?

    Anyway... a laptop beats this and these days the price is probably better too.

    • Re:Over priced, Under powered (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ciroknight ( 601098 ) on Monday July 04, 2005 @08:34PM (#12982379)
      Well, it's pretty obvious to me that this product isn't for you.

      Since you're looking for a laptop with tablet input features, I should recommend to you some of the newer Toshiba laptops.

      But, since so few of you guys actually read the beginning of the article, I'll try to reiterate what this thing is useful for.

      Since my PDA is so lowly, I doubt it could control my air conditioner. But, with this thing, I could hook it to every vent in the home and control the air by regions, and still have the pad with me. Or I could watch the news on it, or read it like a reusable newspaper. It reminds me freakishly of the kind of tablets you'd see on Star Trek.

      Pricing is always a problem when anyone brings anything to the market. If the price is too high, the market will moderate it down. If the price is too low, the supply will dry up and prices will raise themselves. Simple economics.

      Just because it's not ready for you, doesn't mean it's not ready for me.. I'd buy one to tinker with (if for nothing else), if I had the money, but I needed a laptop for college more ;)

    • Re:Over priced, Under powered (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 04, 2005 @10:22PM (#12982779)
      I work for Pepper.
      1. Wait a few months, you'll get 2.6. FWIW Montavista has backported most of the exciting stuff from 2.6 to the 2.4 kernel we use, so we're not missing out on all that much.
      2. 1024x768 on an 8" screen gets a bit small, and the LCDs are hard to find.
      3. It has video out, read the spec sheet. DVD playback is best accomplished by copying the DVD to the Pad. Perhaps someday there will be a better solution.
      4. We're working on it
      5. The XScale only supports USB 1, so adding USB 2 requires more chips = more space, more power, more cost. Stay tuned.
      6. Firewire may not be the best high-speed bus to add. We'll see.
      7. Read the spec sheet, it has bluetooth. Works, even!

      Who's going to provide support for Knoppix? You? We're a step ahead of you in that department, we already have a Linux that works, we control what packages are included, and we've locked down the UI for normal users so they don't know it's Linux underneath. Hackers can get underneath just fine if they really want, we like them.

      DVD drives take up space, cost money, and use a godawful amount of power. It's a *good* thing we didn't include one, trust me.

      • 6. Firewire may not be the best high-speed bus to add. We'll see. Firewire may not be the say all end all of high speed busses however it has one huge plus, most digital camcorders support it. Firewire would give this unit some use inside video production and would be DAMN useful.
      • I look at it and all I can say is "It's too freaking big"
        I'm seeing Zoomer all over again.
        (The PDA that went head to head with the Apple Newton and lost)

        The Newton and Zoomer failed on the market for being too big (the zoomer also suffered from poor marketting)

        However times have changed. Nither the Newton nore Zoomer could do half what the Peper can.
      • Write code? Gee I don't want to have to go out and Buy Monta Vista when I have a prefectly good distribuation to work with. How do you boot and
        install your own OS? JTAG? Is there going to be
        shell root access so we can make our own modifications?

        • You don't need to buy MontaVista; you can compile everything using Kegel's crosstool [kegel.com]. Also, all flash locations are unlockable at the OS-level by the hacker so, if you're confident, you can write your own u-boot (or whatever) to flash. Of course if you flash something bad you'll have a paperweight and will need to go in through JTAG.

          Root access is available by hitting ctrl-shift-1 from within our GUI. Once you're there you can enable remote root login by setting a passwd and firing up sshd.

          We also hav

      • I just wish it didn't have that silly thumb keyboard... If I want a keyboard, I can plug one in via USB. If I want to type a few characters, an on-screen keyboard works.

    • The link to purchase it, for those so inclined, belongs to none other than the one company whose spirit embodies innovation, amazon.com. I'd avoid buying it for that reason alone, although I do think that $800 for something that offers about 1/10th of a desktop for the same price is a little, um, uneconomical.

  • Slow News Day... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Big Sean O ( 317186 ) on Monday July 04, 2005 @07:54PM (#12982253)
    ...so Slashdot is printing thinly-veiled press releases.

    Isn't there a "Wor of teh World Sucks" movie review in the queue?

    I looked at the Pepper Pad. Ho-hum. It's got a 20-gig harddrive, it has yesterday's WiFi (b not g) and USB (1.0 not 2.0), a Blackberry keyboard, and it runs some oddball version of Linux.

    For a $200 more, you can get a G4 iBook.

  • Nokia 770 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 04, 2005 @08:02PM (#12982278)
    No, the coolest new Linux device is the Nokia 770.

    http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,1522,,00.html?orig=/7 70 [nokia.com]
    • I agree that everything is cool... except memory and storage. Way too little to be used by geeks. I want to have my emails (3GB of emails) moved to a small device like that, music, personal files, bookmarks, e-books (2GB of ebooks), etc.

      The size is perfect, and it runs Linux. Now, give me a HD and put it more memory, and a terminal.

      Oh, make it available in China too, and I'm willing to pay up to 800$ for that :)
  • Not only does it have a terrible name, but I saw the instruction booklet for the Pepper Pad, and it looked completely useless. I don't quite understand who would want a not-quite-laptop sized, but not-quite-palmtop sized device that doesn't really do much else except play media. When my boss asked the salesgoon what it does, she said "it plays movies...and acts as a tv remote!" ... when he asked why someone would want it, the salesgoon said "it plays movies...and acts as a tv remote!" From what I saw, it

  • Fujitsu p1120 and Sharp mm20 are much better (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 04, 2005 @08:24PM (#12982339)
    Although p1120 is two years old technology, it is much better:

    1) slightly lighter (2.2 pounds).
    2) bigger screen (8.9 inch compared to 8.4).
    3) higher resolution (1024x600 compared to 800x600)-Much better for watching 16:9 movies.
    4) regular clamshell laptop design with a regular keyboard.
    5) slightly better cpu, i386 architecture (transmeta crusoe 800 MHZ).
    6) regular 2.5 inch hard disk. It comes with a 30 GB drive which can be replaced with a 100GB drive. Drive upgrade is very easy, only two screws.
    7)Better upgradability, it has a regular cardbus slot+a mini PCI slot. Ih comes with a mini card which is a wireless b/modem combo -it can be easily replaced with a g wireless card.
    8) Standard i386 architecture makes it possible to run multiple operating systems. On my current system I run

    1)Suse Linux 9.3-slower than Suse 9.0, faster than Solaris 10.
    2)Suse Linux 9.0-this is the fastest OS for the laptop.
    3)BeOS 5.03- faster than Suse 9.3 Solaris and Windows.
    4) Solaris 10 (only at 800x600 resolution)- a bit slow. To install solaris I had to put the dive on another machine; once installed solaris runs fine on p1120.
    5) Win 2k (it came with winxp home)

    All on a 100 gb drive.

    Disadvantage : more expensive, $1199 from Fujitsu USA. Last week it was on sale at NEWEGG for $1050. The difference in features is worth the money.

    Other alternatives: Sharp mm20 ($1200-1300), it is even lighter, 1.9 pounds. It has a regular 10.4 screen but has a 1.8 inch drive (20 GB) There are 1.8 inch drives up to 60GB (9.5 mm) but mm20 can only take a 7 mm drive. Right now it can be upgraded only to 30GB. It has a better CPU, efficeon 1GHZ, and 512 MB RAM. Compared to p1120 it has a big disadvantage, it is very fragile. Fujitsu p1120 is sturdy, you can drop it in a bag or purse without any problems.

    • What makes the Crusoe i386 more "standard" than the XScale (which is in the ARM family)? I think the XScale is more "standard" since virtually all PDA use it.

    • Neat ultra-portable there.

      How's wireless support under the Linux installs you have on the Fujitsu? I have a Fujitsu S6210 and Suse 9.3 works like a champ with this notebook and a bog standard Intel 2200BG chipset.

      Semi-OT: Suse 9.3 is the only install I've put on this notebook that I haven't had to do *any* configuration to get WPA-PSK working. Fill in your pre-shared key and take off. I've tried just about every distro and although I could get WPA working it wasn't nearly as seamless as it is in Suse 9

  • 800$? (Score:1, Redundant)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 )
    It better get my coffee too..

    A cheap laptop would be a better choice.

  • Too big for a handheld-nobody will buy it (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Both size and weight are too big for a handheld. It is closer to a subnotebook (Sharp Mebius Muramasa, mm20, Toshiba Libretto, Fujitsu p1120), but lacks the standard features of a subnotebook (i386 compatibility, pc card slots, regular keyboard). Most subnotebooks are smaller and lighter and have many additional features. I think nobody will buy it.
  • I've ran into something similar before.
    A system which was built around Linux but you can't see the word "Linux" being mentioned.

    And when it comes to synchronizing - it only uses Microsoft Windows - thus even implying the system was built around the same.

    "Linux" is becoming a taboo word - since they believe it implies user-unfriendliness and inflexibility.

    The companies not only take but give nothing back, they feel "ashamed" of mentioning the free OS.

  • hmmm (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ImTheDarkcyde ( 759406 )
    i assume DS-Linux and PSP linux were not present?
    i didn't read it, so sue me.
  • And we get an article (slashvertisement) about ... one ... new ... linux ... product. That is overpriced. And doesn't mention it runs Linux. And which has software that is closed enough to make porting stuff to and from it difficult if not impossible. But hey, it's got firefox!

    Fer christ's sake, I'm a linux fanboy, but if we were to give an article to every new product that had embedded windows in it ... or even embedded linux in it, we wouldn't have room for the Dupes! This isn't interesting. not even mil

  • What an ugly product!!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 04, 2005 @09:39PM (#12982627)
    This is NOT meant to be flame bait!

    But this product, plain and simple, is UGLY UGLY UGLY.

    It's my biggest problem with the Linux community. You need to take some lessons from Steve Jobs and the Apple community. Virtually everything I've seen in the Linux world is UGLY UGLY UGLY. OK for tech geeks, but not for nobody else.

    If you really want to be mainstream, you need to change your ugly ways.

    So everybody will probably think I'm just trying to get a rise out of you. Which will simply prove my point. If you don't see how ugly all of this stuff is, you don't understand why Linux -- an excellent concept -- hasn't taken off.

    • If you don't see how ugly all of this stuff is, you don't understand why Linux -- an excellent concept -- hasn't taken off.

      What? I really think you should get out more.

      The combined worldwide market for desktops, servers, and packaged software running on Linux is forecast to grow at a 2003-2008 compound annual growth rate of 25.9 percent worldwide, reaching $35.7 billion by 2008.

      New and redeployed PCs running Linux is a market forecast to grow to $10 billion and 17 million units by 2008 with an in

  • Patent pending? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 04, 2005 @09:58PM (#12982692)
    From their technology page [pepper.com]: "The Pepper Platform includes Pepper's own patent-pending Application Framework for plug-in application programs..." Software patents are not cool.
  • is it me, or is that thing HUMONGOUS?!?!? i mean it's almost the size of a tablet. shouldn't it be categorized as a laptop/notebook and not a handheld?
    • No it's not. It's just that they asked a Smurf model to show off with it. They do that all the time.

      Calling that thing "humongous" is an insult to my IBM 370 handheld!

  • It looks like a clever little device. Small, decent screen. It might be useful for some quick WWW access from the couch type stuff.

    But, for $850?!? Who the hell will analyze this against all the laptop options, and decide to pay more for this limited little device, rather than going with a full laptop?

  • Alternative @ $300 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ScorpFromHell ( 837952 ) on Tuesday July 05, 2005 @12:03AM (#12983082) Homepage
    This [blogspot.com] surely is an alternative at less than half the price of the pepper pad ($849.99)?
    Mobilis products [ncoretech.com] have already been covered in slashdot [slashdot.org].

  • I used to be in this line of work - best of luck (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Weaselmancer ( 533834 ) on Tuesday July 05, 2005 @12:30AM (#12983135)

    I used to work at a company that ported WinCE and Linux to StrongARM devices. Our last project was a webpad. We went out of business shortly after that.

    If I had any advice to offer it would be this. Drop your price. By a lot. It's been said in this thread before a few times but your price point is all wrong. For that cash you could get a laptop. That's what sunk us. People think that a few hundred bucks is a PDA, and anything over about $500 is a laptop. So if you fall in the laptop range, you have to provide laptop functionality.

    Would you buy a laptop that ran at 624Mhz with no math coprocessor or video acceleration for $850?

    Another point is the hardware. Don't know much about PXA270, but the PXA255 wasn't up to video. Getting video to run on it was my job, and best I could manage was 2 or 3 frames per second. We advertised that it could run video...and in a way it could. But it totally sucked and that put customers off. If it doesn't perform well you're better off simply not promoting it as a video player.

  • One way to pack more power into a handheld device without making it unwieldy is to separate the computing/storage part from the UI part. That is pack the CPU and disk part (with it's batteries) in a "brick" and make a separate screen that essentially just runs remote desktop over some appropriate wireless connection. Depending on your needs, you can mix and match bricks and screens of different sizes. A one kilo brick could go in your back pack while you walk around with a screen. Or, if you are indoors, th

  • Classic Cupboardware (Score:3, Funny)

    by iBod ( 534920 ) on Tuesday July 05, 2005 @07:38AM (#12984309)

    Cupboardware (n):

    Any useless but superficially attractive item of consumer electonics purchased by people with too much money that is played with for two weeks and then condemned to reside in a cupboard for 18 months until being eBayed or given to the local charity shop.

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