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Wireless Networking Communications Portables Hardware

T-Mobile Launches GSM/802.11 Phone In Germany 110

Posted by timothy from the macht-mir-lustig dept.
prostoalex writes "German subscibers of T-Mobile can now get a hybrid PDA phone that supports both GSM and WiFi wireless networks. The new Mobile Digital Assistant (pretty pictures) will connect to cellular and wireless hotspots built by T-Mobile as well as any 802.11a/g Wireless LANs."
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T-Mobile Launches GSM/802.11 Phone In Germany More

T-Mobile Launches GSM/802.11 Phone In Germany

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  • Some More Information (Score:5, Informative)

    by Zone-MR ( 631588 ) * <slashdotNO@SPAMzone-mr.net> on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @04:56AM (#9569211) Homepage
    The Mobile Digital Assistant [t-mobile.de]page lists two products. One is the MDAI, and the second is the MDAII. The pretty pictures [t-mobile.de] link actually only shows the OLD MDAI model, which still had an external antenna. It is NOT the upcoming MDAIII. I've had the XDAII (same thing as the MDAII, but it's called XDA in the UK for three months now. It's a great product (I love being able to use MSN messenger/IRC from practically anywhere, over a GPRS link, and paying next to nothing [since I'm billed for data transfered and IM/IRC isn't bandwidth intensive]). My only gripe is that its size/weight is a bit larger than standard pocket PCs (then again hardly susprising considering the extra features). WI-FI is the only thing that is missing IMHO, so I am looking forward to the next one.

    I read some more info and an original press release. It was posted on www.xda-developers.com (great resourse for MDA/XDA owners). Here are some additional links regarding the upcoming MDAIII:

    http://www.t-mobile.net/CDA/tmd_mda_iii,20,,news id -3146,en.html?w=1075&h=847
    http://www.mtekk.com.a u/browse/page910.html

    • Re:Some More Information (Score:4, Interesting)

      by AGMW ( 594303 ) on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @07:24AM (#9569665) Homepage
      A friend has one of the HP ones with finger print checker, bluetooth, wireless, etc all build in. He walked into my house and connected to my wireless network. Out and about, it uses bluetooth to communicate with his cell phone in his rucksack and connects that way. He has a small bluetooth GPS that it will connect to, and it will track his movement and overlay it on the maps (full Landranger set of maps for England and Wales for 150 pounds or so), including the admiralty maps offshore so he can see where he is sailing. It's amazing!

      It seems to me that having the various components seperate is better than lumping them all together though. This allows parts to be upgraded or new parts added, and allowing him to choose best of breed, cheapest, etc for each component as he requires.

      I suppose the downside might be that you are carrying multiple sets of batteries etc, but then you only have the bits you actually need with you, and multiple batteries perhaps equates to longer up time?

      • I agree with this but only partially. I too have a seperate bluetooth GPS, but would rather have a phone built in but seperate. The main reason is that the built in GSM phone allows me to be connected to the GPRS network even when the XDA is off (in stand-by). That way I can be logged into any IM network/IRC/whatever, and instantly be alerted when I get a message. Also links in nicely with custom home automation software I mentioned in another post. A seperate phone means, as you mentioned, a seperate set o
  • Would this mean that when you come home (provided you have a WAP) you would be able to access your phone via your computer over the network ??

    • Re:Lan capability? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Zone-MR ( 631588 ) * <slashdotNO@SPAMzone-mr.net> on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @05:02AM (#9569226) Homepage
      Depends what you mean "access your phone". You can connect to it, copy files, synchronise contacts/emails/etc.

      Another potential use would be streaming MP3's from your home computer so you can walk around the house listening to them on your XDA.

      Basically anything you write software. I've written a util for my XDAII which connects to my home server over GPRS, and links in with my home automation. So regardless of where I am, I am instantly alerted when someone approaches the house, presses the doorbell, etc. One click and I can stream the video from a small driveway camera, and another click and I can open the door/turn lights on/whatever.
    • I guess so. Despite how much I'd really like to use this phone, I'm happy with my laptop+wifi card and my Motorola V400 cellphone. It all works out in the end!

  • From the article: (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Senator Bozo ( 792063 ) <gki149@yahoo.com> on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @05:00AM (#9569218)
    The MDA III supports GSM and Wi-Fi, and includes a retractable QWERTY keyboard that slips within the device when not in use

    Seeing how this thing will be sold in Germany, shouldn't it be a QWERTZ keyboard, or are they trying to irritate their customers? If it is a QWERTY, does it have Umlauts?

  • Can the keyboard be remapped to Dvorak in software?

    • Re:Dvorak (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      So you can type extra fast on the tiny little keys?

      • Re:Dvorak (Score:5, Funny)

        by tarunthegreat2 ( 761545 ) on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @05:14AM (#9569260)
        "Frankly, I don't know what's coming next, but we're all gonna need smaller fingers, for sure!" - Jeff Bezos, on being asked to predict future technological trends - June 2000
      • I guess this will cause similar problems with thumb wear as game pads do. Still anything is better than hunched up typing over a keyboard...

        The key to good miniature keyboard design is limit the contact space between the digit (finger) and the key.

        By making a meyboard out of 1mm diameter 'nipples' with the letter printed larger behing, the total distance between the pressable surface of each key becomes much greater:

        The test:

        Press the following five boxes with your grubby finger (will need to wipe monit

        • Now press the following smaller dots.

          . . . . . .etc
          Easier huh?

          Well, no. With the brackets one, by using my fingernail I can just barely hit one 'button' and not the adjacent ones, so I could in theory type; but with the dots I can't hit one with my fingernail and with a fingertip there is no way I can hit less that 3 buttons at once (I have big hands).

          Which is why I couldn't use a credit card 'nipple' keyboard. Using one with SIX digits at once, as you suggested, would require me more effort than
          • Sorry, meant to add 'must be viewed in a fixed width font'

            If you view it in the reply box, you should get the point, the width is about 195% for the decimal version.

            try it yourself by drawing around one of your cashcards, and then drawing two horizontal lines dividing it horizontally into 3 rows.

            then draw three vertical lines, then in each vertical section, draw two vertical lines.

            You now have 30 boxes.

            You can try and fit your finger on them.

            If you now draw a fair sized point in the center of each squ
            • And you should draw 3 horizontal lines, which gives you 36 boxes :-)

              Hot sunny days and math don't mix well.

              • Hmm, well, being obsessive I did actually draw such a keyboard, and I guess it would work, although 3-4mm might be a better button diameter than 1mm. In fact, I guess I could type on it with 2 fingers per side -- couldn't use my thumbs, though, without clawing my hand up (I have huuuuge hands).

                Okay, you sold it to me (provided it is fully programmable to a custom layout)... I await reciept of my demonstration model :)

                • "Okay, you sold it to me (provided it is fully programmable to a custom layout)... I await reciept of my demonstration model :)"

                  If you use the 'origami0.3a' drivers the keyboard you just made is actually extremely adaptable. :-)

                  Just drawing the 'nips' in the center of the boxes isn't that great, you have to draw the ones on the edges, *right* at the end, this gives you that little bit more room.

                  3-4 mm , you could be right, the bigger the button, the more change your massive digit (ooeer) will hit an adja

  • Wrong links (Score:5, Informative)

    by Mr_Silver ( 213637 ) on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @05:03AM (#9569231)
    The links are all wrong.

    The article talks about the MDA III yet the photos show an MDA I and II which have been out for ages and a reasonable amount of time respectivily. The most noticable thing about the MDA III is that it has an integrated sliding keyboard.

    Photos of the MDA III can be found here [infosyncworld.com].

    I have one in my desk drawer and although I haven't had a proper play with it, it's rather heavy, thick and the back is made of cheap feeling black plastic. The OS is Microsoft Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition.

    However it does come with an impressive line up of software - fonix voice apps, album, clearvue pdf, enroller, clearvue ppt, kse truefax, midlet manager, photo contacts, video mms and xBackup to name a few.

    • An MDA is a PDA with mobile (voice) and connectivity, a SmartPhone is a mobile phone with PDA capability.

      Are these converging or diverging and trying to control the markets with double speak? I would suggest that MDAs are more powerful, but the only real SmartPhones that are around are the Sony P900s, which looks fantastic.

      Do you really want to lug an MDA around just for voice? I think seperating the application of a voice unit and a computing unit is best left alone, and a standard PDA and mobile is bett
      • I've always wanted a PDA with a detachable earpiece that acts as the phone function. I can imagine the speaker & a small mike boom detaching from the side or back of my PDA. I just insert the little guy in my ear & I'm off & talking. There would need to be some sort of wireless tech between the earpiece & the PDA, obviously.

        Similarly, as small as cellphone are getting, I could see a little (1" x 0.5"??) flipphone detaching from my PDA as well. Just leave all the functionality possible i
        • I think mobile voice communication devices (mobiles) need to be that, mobile.

          I would like a small handset, not too small though, just right to have some extra functionality squeezed in, like alarms, schedule.

          PDA in my opinion went down a little, because what they were used for was supplied by decent phones.

          Now, PDA's can be used for high end games, remote monitoring, real useful applications and data sharing.

          PDA is a slate PC, a small 'tablet PC' (I hate the world tablet, it is so associated with M$)

          So
      • Try the Treo 600. ARM/PalmOS5, 16M/SD(IO), USB, Sprint CDMA@144Kbps (bursty), iPod-comparable stereo headphones for WAV/AAC/vorbis/MP3 and shoutcast playback, (crappy) camera. It's a little large compared to a tiny phone, but any smaller and I wouldn't want to type/read on it. It's really a phone, and it's really smart - the PalmOS integration of programs and phone is really tight, and open - all the current PalmOS apps run on it (small color screen). This thing is convergence - and the most "Personal" Comp
        • Does superwaba run on it?

          It looks pretty darn awesome, almost like an opened out laptop, but tiny!

          Anyone compare this with a P900? I think for typing and reading you really shoudl have a sub-lap / PDA, but then, I haven't tried this!
          • The PalmOS5 superwaba runs on it, as does a real Java VM, from IBM. It's adequate for reading (it also runs the tussh client), and a little better than adequate for "typing". It's a phone/PDA - no substitute for the compositional environment of keyboard/VGA. But fine for navigating info already structure for mobile use. Hopefully it will transform UI to something as appropriately revolutionary as did the PC, starting with DOS & CP/M, and moving to Mac & Windows. It's got the power and flexibility in

    • Re:Wrong links (Score:5, Informative)

      by wfberg ( 24378 ) on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @05:57AM (#9569376)
      And I'd have to add to that..

      The MDA2/XDA2/iMate2/Qtek2020 (HTC Himalaya) also supports wifi, but only as an SDIO card option. Which means you can't extend the memory storage beyond the present 128MB RAM (with backup battery) and approx 15MB flash.

      The apps that come with the MDAs are not necessarily included with the XDA/iMate/Qtek, but you can usually upgrade your own device with any vendor's ROMs, or even customize them, thanks to the people at xda-developers [xda-developers.com]. Special kudos to xda-developer Willem/itsme.

      SIP VOIP apps are available for pocketpc, even skype is, and depending on how much you pay for your data traffic (e.g. an unlimited plan) it might already work out cheaper than regular calls.

      The most iresome trouble with these handsets is that the OS can be very buggy. I know it might seem like Microsoft-bashing, but they've really stuck to some of the worst features of windows for their embedded windowsCE/pocketpc platform. It has a registry! Which even has a HKEY_USERS key, even though it's empty because it's a single user device (and HKCU is not backed up by syncing). Also, DLL hell exists on the platform. Apps need to be installed and will try to install files in default locations. The package management is woeful, like in it's big brother. And back-ups frequently do not work.

      The best thing about it, is the extensibility and the LARGE number of applications and tools available for it. The developer community seems to be bigger than the EPOC community was, or the Palm developer community. This in spite of the fact that the platform lacks easy scripting, and you're basically stuck to either handcrafting c++ or going the VB.NET route. Rather daunting, either way.

      Pocket outlook is very nice, too bad activesync will only sync with regular outlook (you get a copy, although it comes with product activation).

      Webbrowsing over gprs is a joy, though it is a shame there is no opera for pocketpc, if only to give it a whirl.

      Oh, and parent poster.. If you don't have time to play with it.. Send it to me please? ;-)
  • Whether you're moving to 3G or Wi-Fi/WiMax, you're ready to roll. I have to hand it to these guys, at least they're thinking ahead. Now it doesn't matter which technology wins out as The Ultimate Wireless Solution. If only other mobile phone companies thought this way...
    On the other hand, at this point, I don't think 3G OR 802.11 have managed to break out on a global scale a la GSM yet... so your pretty toy will remain just that for another 3/4 years....
    • Umm, except that phone doesn't support 3G afaik.
      • Not if you read TFA, you're right, but I read elsewhere that it would definitely be 3G compatible (since Europe's heading in that expensive direction..) Unfortunately I've been googling for the article which stated that, but can't find it :-( So I guess I should "retract" my statement....
        • Not if you read TFA, you're right, but I read elsewhere that it would definitely be 3G compatible

          The only way this could be 3G compatible is via some additional plug in device (and even then I'm not sure how feasible this is).

          3G devices need special hardware which the MDA III doesn't have I'm afriad.

        • The MDAIII will be based on the same hardware as the "China Unicom CU928", which doesn't have 3G support. So 3G support will be unlikely.

          As rumours of the MDAIII only leaked 2 weeks ago, and the product was confirmed officially yesterday, the article you read may well have been journalist speculation before any real details were known.

          (Which is a big shame. I'd love to switch to 3G, but I couldn't part with my XDA).

  • Malware gateway (Score:1, Interesting)

    by matthewg42 ( 646725 )
    This sort of thing could provide a convenient gateway to the private mobile neworks for worms and the like. I'm sure there are Russian "businessmen" rubbing their hands with glee at the thought. The screenshot is WinCE? [ROTFL] It's only a matter of time now.

  • Will they allow VOIP? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by pubjames ( 468013 ) on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @05:22AM (#9569283)

    I wonder if they will allow you to make VOIP calls over the WiFi link using this handset. That would be really neat, but unfortunately VOIP is a threat the the profits of companies like T-mobile. So they will probably do something to prevent this. Unless of course they charge for the WiFi connection by usage, which of course removes the principal benefit of VOIP for the user.
    • They might, especially because somebody else might develop the component instead.
      Now, I guess GSM has its advantages (not sure but I'd say better range, etc.) so it might not be obsoleted at once.

    • Re:Will they allow VOIP? (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Motorolla is doing this today in the US. For companies with investments in wireless and (at least) Avaya VOIP call switches you can seemlessly roam from the WIFI to the cellular network or vise versa even while a call is present.

      It even changes the display on your cellular phone to match the feature sets on your company VOIP phone.

    • I wonder if they will allow you to make VOIP calls over the WiFi link using this handset. That would be really neat, but unfortunately VOIP is a threat the the profits of companies like T-mobile. So they will probably do something to prevent this. Unless of course they charge for the WiFi connection by usage, which of course removes the principal benefit of VOIP for the user.

      I don't know if the benefits will be taken away. Think if you live in a crappy apartment complex or someplace that has a really weak
      • Although to be able to do this, it would require a specific firmware for the access point so the phone can "register" itself so you can receive incoming calls. Something similar to vonage, just wireless.
    • ...albeit the first with *built-in* GSM/GPRS and WiFi. If you can make VOIP calls over WiFi using your standard Pocket PC, you can do it with this device (whether T-Mobile makes it easy or integrates it into their software is another matter.)

      T-Mobile don't have any control over the use of the WiFi in the phone, if you want to use it on your own AP, or anyone elses for that matter. The only scenario where they would is if you *happen* to be using a T-Mobile hotspot, which you could also use with any other W

  • WiFi on a phone - I never thought I'd see this... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ncw ( 59013 ) on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @05:37AM (#9569323) Homepage
    WiFi on your phone/PDA is the obvious next step, but I never thought it would happen because WiFi threatens all the major revenue earning modes of the mobile phone companies.

    The threats are VOIP and IM. It doesn't look like this phone supports VOIP natively, but there is plenty of code which does on that platform. IM threatens the insanely lucrative SMS revenue and the major users of SMS (ie teenagers) are already using IM.

    I guess since T-Mobile have a big stake in WiFi access points they can afford to produce a product like this, unlike their competitors which don't and can't. We'll see!

  • Handy (Score:4, Interesting)

    by chrispl ( 189217 ) on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @05:47AM (#9569346) Homepage
    If this will let you make VoIP calls from any wifi network it would be really useful (read cheap), especially in metro areas like Berlin. On the way from home to work (a 20 minute drive) there are just over 100 wifi access points. About a dozen are cafes and T-com public APs but most are personal APs built into the DSL modems/routers that are given away for free with the internet service. Half of them wide open and on default settings. Someone *could* park their car just about anywhere and make free calls etc, if they were into that kind of thing...

    • Re:Handy (Score:2, Informative)

      by Pseud0 ( 412706 )
      Agreed, however - VoIP with WiFi is not really useful in conjunction with GSM/GPRS until you solve handover of communication.

      Wouldn't you say that the foremost ability of a mobile phone, apart from letting you communicate, is that is allows you to be mobile? Unless you want to stay within the same hotspot for every conversation these features are only that great.
      • No, mobility is nice. But the foremost ability of my mobile phone is that people can call me wherever i am and I can call from whereever I am.

        Besides WiFI has some roaming on a smaller scale. You could still talk while you walk on your workplace or campus.

  • It's a Shame (Score:3, Interesting)

    by XScB ( 240898 ) on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @05:54AM (#9569365) Journal
    It's a shame it's a PocketPC device. I spent months last year trying to use and being frustrated by the PocketPC OS. It's crap and clever marketing (like this) can't save it.

    I think a sub-notebook with a WLAN and GSM card will probably be more use.
    • I've used the existing T-Mobile GSM phone, and the Pocket PC software was just so unreliable it made the lousy sound quality a minor issue. I was routinely rebooting before calls and answering the phone with "Hi, I'll call you back in a minute after I've reset the phone".

    • Re:It's a Shame (Score:2, Interesting)

      by jcostantino ( 585892 )
      Yeah, PocketPC sucks but it's "oK' for tiny devices. I actually ignored PocketPC for about two years and a coworker showed me his new HP. Very nice, interface sucks. It took him 10 minutes of fiddling with it and an extra five of mine to figure out where the MAC address for the wireless card is.

      This thing first and foremost is a telephone, I could at least see holding this thing up to my head to make a phone call. I'd hate to have to pull my Libretto L5 [dynabook.com]* out and hold it up to my head like a Nokia N-gage [sidetalking.com].

  • Nokia's WiFi (Score:2, Interesting)

    by troezen ( 594368 )
    WiFi will be available on the new Communicator [nokia.com] as well. The downside with that one, I hear, is the new "improved" keyboard.. But other than that, it looks set to continue the Communicator tradition of a really successful blend of phone and PDA.

  • Other similar devices (Score:3, Informative)

    by 3waygeek ( 58990 ) on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @06:20AM (#9569437)
    include the Motorola MpX [howardforums.com], due in Q4, and the iPAQ 6300 series [howardforums.com], due out in the next 30-60 days. Both are GSM/GPRS phones -- my understanding is that they'll be software-upgradable to EDGE once the carriers roll it out.
  • ...but I still want a Nokia D311 from Cingular [cingular.com].
  • Last time I checked a couple of days ago a "T-Hotzone" pass cost EUR 8.00 an hour, that's $9.75 an hour. What's worse, once you've started using the "T-Hotzone" pass the clock doesn't stop ticking when you disconnect from the network.

    BTW some select Burger Kings(one I know of in Ingolstadt) offer wireless internet for free, (food/beverage purchase required).
  • I have yet to check the specs, but i assume the phone would have bluetooth built in. so woulden't the wap abilities of the phone make it more suseptable to a hybird of the cellphone virus?
  • About the only thing that's new about this is that is in one package... I've done something similiar along time ago with an old iPAQ 3660 and a dual PCMCIA jacket with a gsm card in one slot and a 802.11b in the other.

    Okay it didn't do auto handover but if I'd bothered to write a litte app to monitor the 802.11b/GSM connection status it could easily have been setup to fail over as needed...
  • Assuming they can easily detect when a phone is connected to GSM and when it's connected via WiFi, and further assuming that GSM is more expensive overall to the provider than WiFi, I wonder if WiFi sessions will get billed at a cheaper rate...
  • Does it have the capability to send VoIP packets over said 802.11 network? This would be a cheap, easy way for people to extend cell phone reception into locations that currently can't get a connection. Like basements. [slashdot.org] Or server rooms.

    Instead of buying a $600 active repeater, or bodging together a passive repeater, people could simply use their existing broadband connection and 802.11 network.

  • I always get so puzzled when people create a phone with a touchscreen (read: FRAGILE) and not make it clamshell design.

    like the Motorola MPX [howardforums.com]

    I walk around with a phone, not in an armoured purse, not with 4 bodyguards around me but no.. *drumroll* just in my jeans pocket.

    If I, for some alcoholic reason, bump phone-first into something less soft than say a baby's bottom, Id like the screen to survive, please.

    And don't come to me about protective cases, this design is flawed from the beginning, and I
    • Well, my Palm V has survived 4 years of rough handling in my back pocket.
    • Especially since the normal objection to a clamshell (moving parts, bending cables that break and hinges that wear out) don't apply, since it's already got all that complexity in the sliding keyboard.

      I don't understand why PDA makers seem to be averse to not only clamshells but even hard protective covers. I avoided replacing my Visor Prism for a long time because all the new handhelds... PalmOS and Pocket PC alike... seemed to be designed witt the idea that broken screens ensure a steady revenue stream.

      Y
  • I'm still going to wait to see what PalmOS 6 has to offer. And $300 is still about the max I want to pay for a phone+pda.
  • Very nice pictures. Anyone else notice that this is Windows CE with Mac OS X scrollbars?

    Uh-huh, show me real screen shots. :-)
    • Oh, apparently it's not just a picture.. first thing I noticed is the screen image is so sharp, it must be an $IMAGE_EDITOR job, copying and pasting a screenshot into the display area. But after you mentioned the scrollbars, I noticed, they even work! The display area is actually HTML, so the scrollbars are your standard system scrollbar.. notice the title is "PDA Simulator", it's a simulation of how it works, I guess.

      Too bad it looks pretty lame on my computer, its standard font is Times..
  • The mobile phone biz is built on "give away the phone, and sell the minutes". Sure, they'll charge hundreds of dollars (-> yen, won, pounds, euro) for this phone. But will that cover the thousands they'll lose in airtime, when it connects over a WiFi net that doesn't charge for T-Mobile? Or are they planning some kind of proprietary WiFi login, limiting connections to only T-Mobile hotspots?
  • The phone is a modified XDA [xda-developers.com]. The latest model from them is O2 [o2.co.uk]. They are powered by Microsoft Pocket PC and supports Wifi cards. Xda was first released on July 13th, 2002.

  • Oh dear... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by daringone ( 710585 )
    Am I the only one that finds mobile phones on an 802.11 network to be a BAD thing? We have enough war driving and such on unsecured 802.11 networks as it is, and now we have cell phones compatible with them. I'm just waiting for the first virus to be written to swipe all the phone numbers in your address book to be sent to telemarketers or simply hose your $300 phone in general.
  • I think they mean 802.11b/g. While I've seen single-chip 802.11b/g solutions, I've yet to see a single chip 802.11a/g. Also there are antennas to consider - a broadband antenna for 1.8-2.4 GHZ (supporting GSM and 802.11b/g) isn't particularly difficult to do, but if the phone supported 802.11a (5.3 and 5.8 GHz) it'd have to have more and different antennas. Couple that with the battery drain from 5GHz and I somehow doubt the phone on the market today is really a/g.
  • The MDA II has a sliding keyboard. The photo in the link goes to an old model, the MDA.

    The MDAIII picture is available on Geekzone [geekzone.co.nz] for example.

    The Pocket PC will also be available on a CDMA version on Sprint (USA), Verizon (USA) and Telecom New Zealand (New Zealand) sometime very soon.

    The first release was in China, dubbed as CU928 [geekzone.co.nz] (image of Chinese version available).

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