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Portables Hardware

Fuel Cells for Laptop Computers 266

Posted by Hemos from the interesting-ideas dept.
ArbiterOne writes "An article in PC World states that the company MTI Micro Fuel Cells plans to demonstrate a new technology this week that could pave the way for better power technology for laptop and palmtop computers. The article claims that this new technology could provide a battery life 2.5 times greater than that of a lithium-ion battery. Could this be the solution to the problem of short battery life in high-end notebooks?"
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Fuel Cells for Laptop Computers More

Fuel Cells for Laptop Computers

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  • At long last. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LEgregius ( 550408 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:29PM (#9485382)
    As long as the laptop designers don't suddenly think that having more power means they can put components that use 2.5 times the power.

  • The nice thing about "normal" batteries... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kenja ( 541830 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:30PM (#9485387)
    The nice thing about "normal" batteries is that I can go to my hotel room and recharge them. The last thing I need to be doing is wandering around vegas at three in the morning trying to find some hydrogen to power my notebook for the big presentation in the morning.

  • Short battery life solved... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:30PM (#9485390)
    Could this be the solution to the problem of short battery life in high-end notebooks?

    Yes, and with their safety record it could cause the problem of short user life in high-end notebooks.

  • Solution to short battery life (Score:5, Funny)

    by SpaceCadetTrav ( 641261 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:30PM (#9485399) Homepage
    Stop playing games on the company laptop.

  • Uh... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Paulrothrock ( 685079 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:32PM (#9485427) Homepage Journal
    Call me a luddite, but I don't really want hot electronic components sitting next to pressurize, flamable gas.

    I like my pubic hair, thankyouverymuch.

    But seriously, will this be available in time for current computers (like my brand-new Powerbook) to be able to upgrade to a fuel cell power source?

    • Re:Uh... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AviLazar ( 741826 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:41PM (#9485547) Journal
      But seriously, will this be available in time for current computers (like my brand-new Powerbook) to be able to upgrade to a fuel cell power source?
      If they are waiting for permission from organizatiosn such as the Avionics commission, and potentially other organizations (hazmat restrictions?) then you could be waiting for a few years. While this is a BLANKET guess on my part, we all know how quickly gov't organizations move.
      So you are still thinking PowerBooks will be called this in ten years? :)

  • TCO? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Spaceman40 ( 565797 ) <[gro.mca] [ta] [sknilb]> on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:34PM (#9485441) Homepage Journal
    Lithium-Ion batteries only last so long before you have to replace them completely - I wonder if they can get these to be cheap enough to be economically competitive towards the other batteries.

    If they last longer, and the cost-per-hour of use turns out to be cheaper...

  • A friendly reminder from Smokey the Bear... (Score:5, Funny)

    by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:34PM (#9485450) Homepage Journal
    When using your MTI Micro Fuel Cell based laptop at the campgrounds, always practice safety. Surround your laptop with rocks to keep the fire from spreading. Be sure when you're done with your laptop to put it out with a bucket of water and make sure it has stopped smoking before you leave the area.

    Remember what Smokey the Bear says. Only you can prevent your MTI Micro Fuel Cell based laptop from starting a forest fire.

  • Hello, we're running out of money. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by xtal ( 49134 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:35PM (#9485455)
    Pardon me while I yawn. These things have been just around the corner for a LONG TIME. It seems they get "demonstrated" when there's a pressing need for more money, and then they go away for an undefined period of time.

    Call me when I can buy one for my powerbook.

  • Uh... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Digitus1337 ( 671442 ) <lk_digitus AT hotmail DOT com> on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:35PM (#9485467) Homepage
    Do I want an experimental fuel cell on my lap?

  • Longetivity! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:37PM (#9485499)
    Now my dual 3.2Ghz EE Pentium 4 laptop time will triple to 8.3 minutes!
    • Now my dual 3.2Ghz EE Pentium 4 laptop time will triple to 8.3 minutes!

      You can hold it in your lap for 8.3 minutes??!! Who makes your underwear?

    • No joke... my friend is getting a laptop that weighs 17.5 pounds. It has desktop components in it. The battery doesn't so much as last anything as it does tear a hole in the space-time continuum.

  • Yes, but what about cost? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TheAtomicElec ( 784987 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:38PM (#9485507)
    The article didn't seem to mention the cost of these new fuel cell batteries along with their refueling cartridges. I don't see anyone switching to new fuel cell batteries anytime soon unless the cost of the fuel cell and lots of refueling cartridges is approximately the same as a regular li-ion battery. Of course, the nice thing about this technology is that you would never actually need to plug anything in because the battery can't be recharged, just change the cartridge. Also raises the question of whether the fuel cartridges will be hot-swappable. Still, fuel cell batteries sound kewl. :)

  • retro-fitting (Score:2, Interesting)

    by musiholic ( 94408 )
    What of the possibility to retro-fit fuel cells to existing laptop and palm devices? I would love to get a power source for my Zaurus that has more an ability to last, and not have battery memory / dead battery issues.

  • I have seen this on slashdot before but I can't seem to find it and am too lazy to keep looking. I guess this will be the same: no one wants a laptop called the hindenberg

  • Gas station for laptops? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by lantius ( 748963 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:41PM (#9485545)
    I like the idea of fuel cells for laptops and portable devices, but the obvious problem with them is obtaining fuel. We rather take it for granted that when the laptop battery runs low we can plug it in (or drop it into the charger) and within a few hours it is ready for portable use again. With a fuel-cell based solution you have to acquire new a new cartridge. It seems like the availability of fuel will directly tie to the uptake of these devices.

    Consider the typical office corridor worker, travelling to-and-fro with their tablet PC - do they really want to have to buy or refill a cartridge every day? Would it be practical to have multiple full cartridges on hand and refill them in bulk?

    I can see enjoying the option of one of these long life power units if I'm on a flight or in some environment where I need that much portable power without the opportunity to recharge, but it seems doubtful that fuel cells are going to make a major impact on portable electronics until the infrastructure solution is solved. Even still, the infrastructure exists for non-rechargable batteries, yet many people prefer devices that have modern rechargables - it just makes more sense for most situations.

    I believe fuel cells are an excellent technology, and a worthy replacement to traditional non-rechargeable batteries, but I find it unlikeley that they will supplant the current methods of use-and-recharge laptop, pda, and cellular batteries - it's just too convenient.

    • I would say that this technology won't replace the traditional batteries for laptops - but be an add-on enhancement. So for your everyday use, you will plug your laptop into the wall, and have its regular battary supply....but when you want to make an extended trip - where power outlets are not available (i.e. camping), then this is when you would use the battary. Or in an emergency (power outage's) where you still need to get your work done for the morning presentation.
      I do not think people will replac
    • The solution for laptops on aircraft is so simple, nobody seems to be smart enough to urge its adoption: Put "power points" (lighter jacks) at all the seats. If you've got 13.8 VDC (with appropriate current limitations) you don't need a fuel cell; you don't even need a battery (though it's a good idea).

      Given the huge amount of power it takes just to stay in the air, I can't see a commercial airliner not being able to spare 30 watts per seat for hardware. The weight of wiring might be an issue, but if you r

  • Methanol toxicity (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DFJA ( 680282 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:43PM (#9485576)
    Anyone thought about the fact that Methanol is highly toxic? I can see the headline:

    "Small child dies in tragedy involving laptop".

    I've not seen any discussion of this aspect of direct methanol fuel cells on the web, but it's an important one.

    • Re:Methanol toxicity (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:49PM (#9485654)
      Yeah, we should stick with safe, nutritious lithium ion batteries.

    • Re:Methanol toxicity (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      What about the children!!??!?

      Seriously, man. I think there are lot more dangerous chemicals in a typical household that are much more accesible to children than a laptop battery. I'd be more worried about my kids breaking into the liquor cabinet and drinking all my ethanol.

    • Re:Methanol toxicity (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Dun Malg ( 230075 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @01:07PM (#9485870) Homepage
      Anyone thought about the fact that Methanol is highly toxic? I can see the headline:

      "Small child dies in tragedy involving laptop".

      I've not seen any discussion of this aspect of direct methanol fuel cells on the web, but it's an important one.

      (shrug) Methanol [chemrest.com] is no more toxic than many houshold [chemrest.com] cleaners [chemrest.com], and when sealed in a fuel cell it's probably a bit harder to get at. When's the last time someone let a child chew on their laptop battery? Even if we end up with bottles of methanol lying around, it'll certainly be no worse than having bottles of ammonia and bleach.

  • Mmmm.... methanol (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:44PM (#9485593)
    Wonder how long before people start cracking the top off the fuel chargers and start mixed it with coke... sure it may cause blindness, but there are a whole lot or reasons your laptop will make you go blind. (ba-dum-ching!)

    I can just see it now... tough board meeting, heading back on the train... cracking open your fuel cells for sweet sweet relief.

    Come on... people do it with whipped cream changers! Next best thing for the liquor-added geek?

    Now to find a way to power my laptop on vodka (like Bender!)

  • also covered in NewScientist (Score:4, Informative)

    by grey1 ( 103890 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:46PM (#9485625)

    see New Sci home page [newscientist.com], article is:

    • GIVE IT SOME GAS Ditch those flaky low-tech batteries: the miniature internal combustion engine is gearing up to power everything from laptops to cellphones p.26

    though of course you'll need to have paid money to read it...

    It does cover some useful stuff including the fact that any alternative to a bettery that produces even relatively small quantities of unpleasant exhaust won't be any fun in a small space - like an aeroplane cabin...

  • Airplane restrictions (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 14erCleaner ( 745600 ) <FourteenerCleaner@yahoo.com> on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:51PM (#9485686) Homepage Journal
    The article says:
    Several problems need to be worked out before fuel cells are a viable commercial technology, says Allen Nogee, principal analyst with InStat/MDR in Scottsdale, Arizona. For one thing, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration has to decide if fuel cells will be allowed on airplanes, he says.

    Given the way laptops are used by business travellers, and where they generally need long battery life, this is probably a stopper for the whole thing.

    • Well since they already allow Butane lighters which are MUCH more explosive and they sell high proof Ethanol on tons of flights I can't see a reason to not allow Methanol fueled electronics.

  • Should be plenty of open bars and liquor stores... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by neurocutie ( 677249 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:53PM (#9485709)
    The nice thing about "normal" batteries is that I can go to my hotel room and recharge them. The last thing I need to be doing is wandering around vegas at three in the morning trying to find some hydrogen to power my notebook for the big presentation in the morning.
    It should be possible to make a fuel cell that accepts ethanol as well as methanol... Plenty of places to get gin or vodka in Vegas at 3am...

  • excess water (Score:5, Funny)

    by apachetoolbox ( 456499 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:54PM (#9485717) Homepage
    Over the course of the operating period, the amount of excess water released will not be noticeable to the user, he says.

    great, now laptops can pee on us :D
    • You gotta see them piss after you put in ethanol instead of methanol.

      Oh and spelling errors everywhere, not to mention a terribly belligerent disposition.

  • Fuel cell hype (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Animats ( 122034 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:55PM (#9485730) Homepage
    When you read articles about fuel cells, note that some of these outfits don't have refueling worked out. Some are talking about "disposable" fuel cells.

    "Disposable" fuel cells have to be compared against primary batteries, not rechargeable ones. Rechargable batteries typically have about half the energy density of primary batteries. So claiming a 2.5x improvement in battery life for a nonrechargeable system is not a win.

    Ballard [ballard.com] is further along than anybody else in larger fuel cells. Even they don't have much more than prototypes. Their attempt to market a fuel cell under the Coleman brand was a failure [businesswire.com]. The Coleman Powermate was launched with great fanfare in 2002, and never shipped. It's not clear what's wrong at Ballard. Their 1KW units should be providing backup power for cell phone sites and such, but it isn't happening.

    Ballard uses hydrogen in their fuel cells. Despite all the hype about the "hydrogen economy", Praxair, which sells hydrogen for fuel cells, has this to say:

    • Clean burning and not considered an atmospheric pollutant, hydrogen is fast becoming the energy source of the future. Questions regarding cost, safety and infrastructure, however, need answers before hydrogen-fueled engines go into wide use.

      Fuel cell grade hydrogen is specifically designed to be used as a fuel in fuel cell applications. It contains extremely low levels of impurities (e.g. ammonia (NH3), carbon monoxide (CO) and sulfur compounds) that can harm the catalyst-coated membranes inside the fuel cell.

      It is supplied in high-pressure cylinders and can only be used by industrial customers, like factories, laboratories, universities, and military and government installations. Typically, industrial customers already use compressed gases as part of their daily activities. Its use requires adequate ventilation and/or monitoring systems appropriate to the size of the location, helping ensure the safety of personnel when non-air gases are present.

  • What about the other way??? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @12:57PM (#9485754) Homepage
    Why dont we see lower power laptops?

    using current tech for low power consumption they could make a laptop that has say a 500-600mhz processor and a trans-reflective TFT display like that on PDA's as well as using a hard drive/ram/flash combo to give me 3-4 days run time.

    add to it by covering the lid in flexible solar panels and you would have a laptop that is useable by most people that will trickle charge from the lighting in the office or sunlight coming in the windows/ car windows/etc....

    not everyone needs a 2.8ghz Centrino with a super 3d video card + 10,000rpm laptop hard drive to do their daily tasks.

    granted this would mean that OS makers (Microsoft you hear me?) actually start making the OS smaller and faster... but there are times that I wish I could have a sub/sub notebook taking advantage of today's tech making weigh almost nothing with gobs of battery life.
  • Spengler: There's something very important I forgot to tell you.
    Venkman: What?
    Spengler: Don't /. the server.
    Venkman: Why?
    Spengler: It would be bad.
    Venkman: I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean "bad"?
    Spengler: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously, and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
    Stantz: Total protonic reversal!
    Venkman: Right, that's bad. Okay, alright, important safety tip, thanks Egon.

  • Practicality. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Reeses ( 5069 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @01:00PM (#9485803)
    Ok, maybe it's me, but it seems that no one has thought about the practical implicaitons of how this works.

    1) Take the idea of carrying your LiIon battery, and compact charger, throwing it away, and basically replacing it with the equivalent number of AA batteries needed to make a business trip.

    1a) Now think about how much your back is going to hurt after dealing with that much weight in an airport.

    2) OK, now take that thought, replace those AA batteries with something that's full of liquid, flammable liquid at that, and carry enough of those to power your laptop for a week long business trip.

    3) Disposal of the spent cartridges. And the fact that this thing spits out steam (euphemistically called water vapor in the article) right near delicate electronic components. Does it have an exhaust pipe to make sure that you don't get condensation all over your expensive computer bits?

    4) How does this really help? It might be cool to do for disposable batteries. I'd love to be able to get longer life in my flashlight with a battery like this, but not in my laptop with those kind of limitations.

    • Re:Practicality. (Score:2, Informative)

      by marnargulus ( 776948 )
      I think the idea isn't that it will complete replace batteries immedietely, but rather supplement them for persons needing an extended time with out a charge. When I go on trips I usually need to bring along a power converter to change 12 volt car power to my laptop 110 volt charger. I would gladly have spent more on my laptop to not have the hassle of all those wires, the same way I spent a little more to get wireless instead of plugging in.

  • At least... (Score:3, Funny)

    by gmuslera ( 3436 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @01:06PM (#9485854) Homepage Journal
    ... this could give a new meaning to "CPU burning"

  • mirrored (Score:2, Informative)

    by lart2150 ( 724284 )
    I saved a copy because it looked like the server was going down http://students.depaul.edu/~bengert/fule/0,aid,116 591,00.asp.htm
  • Somehow I just don't see you being allowed to take this onboard an airplane, or even allowed through security with it. Bad enough it gives of gasses, but it's full of a flamable liquid?

    Can you say 'bomb'?

    (Doesn't matter if it can be made to explode, we're talking about the same people who confiscate nail clippers)
  • With processors eating up more and more power just to run them, and running hotter all the time, a lot of any new power coming on line will get dumped into the coolant / refrigerant technologies (compressors suck up a lot of juice too...)

    Batteries (and power technology in general) are so far behind the curve, it's really pretty sad. Moore's Law may be on a vacation in chip land, but it's pretty much closed up shop in the world of battery and power storage.

    In a world of cheap oil - who cares?

    I'm surpri

  • Methanol (Score:4, Informative)

    by Spazmania ( 174582 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @01:26PM (#9486067) Homepage
    From: http://www.c-f-c.com/gaslink/pure/methanol.htm

    Methanol: A colorless, flammable liquid with an odor repulsive pungent. Shipped and stored in dissolved acetone. Can decompose spontaneously if pressure exceeds 15 PSIG.

    Hazards: A toxic substance. Irriatates eyes and causes dizziness, nausea and is a possible carcinogen.

    Yeah, I'm going to carry a bottle of that onto a post-9/11 jetliner.

  • Richolson's Law (Score:4, Funny)

    by gricholson75 ( 563000 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @01:43PM (#9486242) Homepage
    I hereby announce Richolson's Law:
    Whenever an article mentioning laptop computers, parts for laptop computers, or any accessory pertaining to laptop computers is posted to Slashdot, the chances someone will link to the Register article about the man who burnt his penis with his laptop approaches 1.0.

  • Glucose based fuel cells (Score:3, Interesting)

    by joncrie ( 746798 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @02:33PM (#9486751)
    The NYTimes [nytimes.com] (reg. req'd) has a report about ongoing research on glucose-based fuel cells [nytimes.com]. Maybe instead using batteries, we'll soon just plug our laptops into our arms.
    • Maybe instead using batteries, we'll soon just plug our laptops into our arms.

      Sounds great! Eat junk food, play Quake, and lose weight all at the same time! Crank up the resolution and effects to burn the most calories.

      Heck, I should apply for a patent on this.

  • Use U-235 (Score:4, Funny)

    by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @02:43PM (#9486869) Homepage
    A single aspirin-sized pellet of U-235 could power your laptop for 20,000 years. No wimpy Centrinos, but a big honkin' full-strength 43.8-watt Pentium IV. The ability to burn DVD's directly, and I do mean burn. A simple 20-pound lead plate integral with the back of the case provides your lap with thermal and other protection, as well as looking cool. Waste disposal? No problem, nobody's going to throw one away when it still has 19,997 years of useful life in it.

    • Re:Use U-235 (Score:5, Interesting)

      by egomaniac ( 105476 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @03:47PM (#9487728) Homepage
      A single aspirin-sized pellet of U-235 could power your laptop for 20,000 years.

      I realize you're joking, but lest some of the Slashbots around here take this as insightful commentary:

      1) Unlike plutonium, U-235 is not radioactive enough to be used as a heat source for a thermoelectric generator.

      2) A small pellet of U-235 cannot generate electricity via nuclear processes. You need a critical mass in order to sustain fission, which is a minimum of around 15 kg in the case of U-235.

      3) Nuclear reactors are really just steam-driven turbines which use nuclear fission as the heat source. You could generate power just as easily by lighting a big fire and using it to boil water (and in fact that's exactly what fossil fuel plants do). Obviously, this isn't something that can be scaled down to portable sizes.

      4) You don't need anything approaching 20 pounds of lead to shield you from uranium's radioactivity. You wouldn't want to swallow it, but you could hold a bare pellet of U-235 in your hand perfectly safely, and a paper-thin layer of lead would completely block its radioactivity. The massive shielding around nuclear powerplants is primarily there to protect us from the neutrons generated during fission, which are very difficult to stop.

  • Forget fuel cells, use the alternative (Score:4, Funny)

    by panurge ( 573432 ) on Monday June 21, 2004 @04:27PM (#9488219)
    In the real world, fuel cell powered cars are always on the horizon, but for sheer fuel efficiency the good old direct injection Diesel is still winning. Works brilliantly on boats, and recharges my laptop in the car via an inverter.

    The obvious answer is a tiny Diesel engine. It'll probably be commercialised faster, it will run nicely on rapseseed oil, which you can carry on airplanes, and the coolness factor would be enormous. The Powerbook would doubtless have some six-cylinder BMW design with engine management and a titanium-clad alternator, while Dell would have some two-pot Chinese job that emitted black smoke while starting. Of course, the plane could still run out of salad dressing on the way to a convention, and the filler better not look too much like a hypodermic.

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