palmOne Releases Two New Zire Handhelds 215
wPageUp writes "palmOne today announced two new additions to their consumer Zire PDA line. According to PalmInfoCenter, the Zire 72 has a 1.2 MP digital camera, 32MB of ram and a 312MHz Intel processor for $299. On the low end side, the new Zire 31 is the first sub-$150 color handheld to include MP3 audio and a memory expansion slot."
With this new hardware... (Score:4, Funny)
PDAs are used for more than that these days (Score:3, Insightful)
- surfing the web via WiFi
- email
- viewing digital photos
- transferring from SD card to a microdrive
- listening to mp3s
- viewing video
- playing games (I'm thinking Chess here)
- viewing DivX that you've recorded with your PVR
- looking up maps
- looking up dictionaries
- storing and reading PDF manuals
I use my PDA for all of these things. Sure there are probably devices that can do some of these individual tasks better, but a PDA is a single general purpose device that can do all of these.
Re:PDAs are used for more than that these days (Score:2)
Re:PDAs are used for more than that these days (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:PDAs are used for more than that these days (Score:2)
Re:PDAs are used for more than that these days (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:With this new hardware... (Score:4, Insightful)
Meanwhile my m515 serves me fairly well, but the color screen - as you say - is of little benefit, drains the battery, and makes the unit both thicker and heavier than the Palm V, though not by much. All these new photo-taking Palms are even thicker and heavier. As far as I'm concerned (and I've used 3 different Palm organizers daily for the past 5 years) they're headed the wrong direction.
Palm renews mac support (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Palm renews mac support (Score:5, Informative)
PalmSource, the company that develops the PalmOS operating system, will no longer incorporate Mac support into the core OS and desktop PIM. This has not changed since they announced it, and it probably never will.
PalmOne, the company that manufactures "Palm" hardware has never shipped a Palm without Mac support and has never intended to. Now that they can't get Mac support from PalmSource, they will bundle third-party tools, just like they do with MP3 players and MSOffice editors, which also aren't incorporated in the OS. I'm sure Sony and the other PalmOS licensees will do likewise.
Macheads need not get their panties in a bunch here. PalmSource simply wants to focus on their core competency of handheld operating systems. PalmOne wants to put together the best bundle of software and hardware they can. None of this should be news.
Only EU has growing market for PDA's (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/28/global_
(soz when i do ahref's from this machine they dont work)
PDA sales are falling all over the world except EU, this can be attributed to the power of the mobile phones that are coming out at the moment. Seriously, i have a nokia 6600, what can the Zire's do that the 6600 cant. This phone has
Calendar,
Notepad,
Plays music,
Expandable memory,
Todo lists,
convertors,
voice recorder,
Camera (with video function)
Address list,
opera,
games,
email
the list goes on
But it uses Symbian a better OS that i can upgrade, alter and get hundreds of progreammes for.
Its a nice little bit of cheap tech but would rather have the phone (prefer a p900 though)
Re:Only EU has growing market for PDA's (Score:2, Interesting)
IMHO, phone miss at least one major feature: the ability to enter date fast and "almost intuitively". Seriously, writing a short message is rather a pain - taking notes with 10 keys? Please, no!
Re:Only EU has growing market for PDA's (Score:5, Interesting)
However when i use SMS the use of predictive texting has about an 80% first time hit rate and in the hands of a average texter is not a disadvantage over a small qwerty keyboard, seriously, if you have not watched some of the kids today type on those keyboards its very fast, i think one Japanese girl hit something like 95wpm.
Re:Only EU has growing market for PDA's (Score:2, Insightful)
The fact she's known for that proves not everyone is able to achieve those rates
Plus, there's a big possibility predictive texting would improve qwerty keyboard typing too...
Re:Only EU has growing market for PDA's (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmmm i cant type 95wpm on a qwerty keyboard with 100 % accuracy (talk to me on IRC to prove this one)
Can you do 95wpm on a sylus qwerty keyboard, i doubt it. I can type on my phone keys at a decent speed with PredTXT switched on. Its a handicap for some things but for a SLIGHT disadvantage at typeing speeds (only really use when entering peoples names and the like) the advantages that i get far outwiegh
it
Re:Only EU has growing market for PDA's (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Only EU has growing market for PDA's (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a 6600 and I prefer web-browsing on it (Opera is a tad buggy at times) and entering text.
Given that you have to enter text for contacts, diary and notes - that pretty much means I still prefer using the PDA for the PDA type things.
Re:Only EU has growing market for PDA's (Score:2)
Display on a larger screen with 320x320 resolution. Run software that requires a 300+ MHz. ARM processor. Use a regular SD card for memory expansion of 256 MB (and up?). I'm not sure about the phone, what does it use for mem expansion? What is it's native memory capacity? (The Treos are a nice meld of phone and PalmOS BTW...still with small screens though.)
The one thing that didn't look too good to me with this was battery life
Re:Only EU has growing market for PDA's (Score:2)
Re:If that's all that you want (Score:2)
Re:Only EU has growing market for PDA's (Score:2)
yes hundreds, do a search for Symbian in google
but for the love of god make sure you spell it right, i had an
trust me on this
Re:Only EU has growing market for PDA's (Score:2)
Palm OS Cobalt? (Score:5, Interesting)
I really like the look of the Zire 72, but the new 31's colour looks a bit "iffy" in the pictures (like the colour of old BluTack). Anyone seen one of these in real life?
How do these stack up against the latest phones?
Re:Palm OS Cobalt? (Score:4, Insightful)
They don't. Neither the 72 nor the 31 has that most essential feature in a palm--the Universal Connector.
I can't buy a Zire 72 and give my 71 to my wife, or buy her a 31, because the cradle, keyboard, and car charger all won't work.
And anyone who would buy a Tungsten knows that they'll be updated in about six months--probably with OS 6, to boot.
Re:Palm OS Cobalt? (Score:2)
But is it just me that thinks this is an odd way forwards? It seems that the "non-Pro" machines are crippled for no good reason. Or am I missing something?
Re:Palm OS Cobalt? (Score:2)
I've heard speculation that it was done just for cost savings reasons. *sigh*
Re:Palm OS Cobalt? (Score:2)
I'm confused... Looks to me like a rather sad was to keep the pros buying Tungsten series Palms. (And that's NOT smart as consumers will be put off upgrading if they change the connectors every time)
Am I missing something?
Re:Palm OS Cobalt? (Score:2)
When the cost savings of using a less-expensive part is greater than the economy of scale for using the same part.
Re:Palm OS Cobalt? (Score:2)
Oh well, another year, another dispointment from Palm. What's new?
"Sub-$150 color handheld" (Score:4, Interesting)
It seemed like for the longest time, colour MP3-capable handhelds cost in the $400-500 range and up. For that price, you might as well buy a used notebook or subnote. Finally, they're not trying to bend you over and screw you just to get a colour screen or audio abilities.
Re:"Sub-$150 color handheld" (Score:2)
Re:"Sub-$150 color handheld" (Score:5, Informative)
Re:"Sub-$150 color handheld" (Score:2, Informative)
I have a Palm Zire 71 I received last May and it has the same requirement--all MP3s must be stored on an SD card.
Re:"Sub-$150 color handheld" (Score:2)
Hmmm... that's actually a pretty good deal!
They still don't have everything I want... (Score:3, Interesting)
The most recent offerings, however, have been atrocious in my mind. To get Bluetooth, you had to go with a Tungsten 2 or 3, both of which have a slider design that's notorious for breaking the digitizer. The Tungsten T is almost as good, but doesn't feature any extra
Re:They still don't have everything I want... (Score:2)
Re:They still don't have everything I want... (Score:2)
I meant the E didn't have any connectivity. Wonder how many posts I'll get correcting me, now.
Re:They still don't have everything I want... (Score:2)
Also, do you notice a higher battery life due to the underclocking? That's something I would definately be interested in. Any stability issues?
Tungsten E (Score:2)
There are also MS PPCs that cost a little bit more, but not that much, with more or less the same features.
Re:"Sub-$150 color handheld" (Score:2)
Besides, the Tungsten E has been out for a while as well, color and MP3 capable.
For UK Buyers (Score:2, Informative)
Intel processor. (Score:2, Interesting)
If these new Palms are based on Intel ARM chips, does that mean that there is a possibility of getting linux running on them? Are there any attempts underway?
Re:Intel processor. (Score:2)
Re:Intel processor. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Intel processor. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Intel processor. (Score:5, Informative)
ARM started as a spin-off from UK computer company Acorn (ARM originally stood for Acorn RISC Machines, although as it was exploited away from its parent company it was renamed Advanced RISC Machines). The ARM2 processor was used in their Archimedes machines, which at the time were probably the most powerful thing on the market. As Acorn started spiralling out of the home computing market, ARM was spun off as an entirely separate company, licensing its processor designs to other companies and improving them in the process (StrongARM with Digital and XScale with Intel being the most obvious big-name successes).
(All from memory - apologies for any inaccuracies. You can probably find out more at the ARM website [arm.com]...)
Re:Intel processor. (Score:2)
Re:Intel processor. (Score:5, Informative)
Don't know what your best option for an assembler/dev environment would be for the Tungsten: I haven't played with ARM code outside the Gameboy Advance and back in the days of Acorn, but these links might prove useful:
Re:Intel processor. (Score:2)
Re:Intel processor. (Score:2)
No, ARM don't make processors. They design processor cores, instruction sets and so on, and license them to other companies to make them - hence, for example, Intel and TI both have pretty successful ARM-based chips for PDAs and phones...
PDA:s are semi-obsolete (Score:5, Insightful)
The new smartphones will edge PDA:s out of the mainstream market (why have two devices?), but I do however think that PDA:s will have roles to fill in niche-markets for corporate users.
Palm would probably do best trying to retrench into devices that have more specific uses for the corporate and public sectors, such as wlan enabled (like the Tungsten C) PDA:s for warehouse workers, POS, healthcare etc.
Trying to compete with smartphones is a fools cause (and CEO:s ego cause) as long as they cannot keep up with Nokia, SonyEricsson, Motorola et al at their own game.
Re:PDA:s are semi-obsolete (Score:2, Interesting)
I've seen all the newest smartphones pass by my desk, Nokia 6600, SonyEricsson P900, Siemens SX1 -- they are just not PDA's. They are phones, trying to do too much -- so you end up with a wierd hybrid [sidetalking.com] of a phone, PDA, mp3player that doesn't do anything good and is not even usable as a phone anymore.
Screens on all these phones are no match for the new crispy Palm screens, and the sheer number of applications I can dow
Re:PDA:s are semi-obsolete (Score:2)
Re:PDA:s are semi-obsolete (Score:2)
Can you look up info while taking a call?
honest question... I havent found a phone that can do that (except for the treos, but those are very expensive), so I carry a simple phone and a simple pda.
Re:PDA:s are semi-obsolete (Score:2)
Can you look up info while taking a call? Yes and yes, as long as use hands-free obviously (blue-tooth or oldschool with wires), its no problems. And there is an "old school" handsfree set that comes with the phone by default.
Re:PDA:s are semi-obsolete (Score:2)
cellphones are semi-obsolete (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would you say that? You might as easily say PDAs will eventually replace cellphones. They're already making PalmOs cellphones (the Treo 600 to mention one, have a look [handpring.com]) and to me it makes more sense to have a PDA/cellphone than, say, a Nokia Communicator. I like the Palm way of doing things and have had a Palm for years so I guess I am biased.
To think they couldn't keep up with Nokia et al may be justified. That remains to be seen. I sure hope they will, because for most my needs Palm has been the right answer and Nokia most certainly has not.
I know PDAs are not selling as much as cellphones. But they ARE selling better than smartphones at the moment I think. To me that says people want a phone that is not too smart and prefer to use a PDA for stuff like that.
Re:cellphones are semi-obsolete (Score:2)
I'm sure battery life could be extended by disabling the phone functionality (i.e. aircraft mode), but that kinds of defeats the point of buying a hybrid in the first place.
Re:cellphones are semi-obsolete (Score:2)
Battery life would be extended much more by disabling the smartphone/PDA functionality. The screen and the processor are the biggest power users afaik. I might be wrong, though, so better find someone else to quote on this.
Re:cellphones are semi-obsolete (Score:2)
Actually, they don't. The year the Nokia 7650 was released (arguably the first usable smart phone, still bulky, and didn't sell that well), it outsold the Palm line by 7:1 or something that year. I'm to lazy to find the link right now, so my numbers might be a bit off, but smartphones already outsell PDAs by a large margin.
The phone market is orders of magnitude larger than the PDA ma
Re:PDA:s are semi-obsolete (Score:2)
Re:PDA:s are semi-obsolete (Score:2)
Internet over Bluetooth to Mobile Phone (Score:4, Informative)
Most interesting to me is the Bluetooth connectivity, you can be connected to the Net in just a few clicks for most recent phones. Works good enough to read slashdot or check your e-mail.
Another interesting new application in there is "messages" -- it sends and receives SMS, MMS and e-mail.
Don't be stupid (Score:4, Interesting)
Don;t be stupid, pick one and wait for it to show up in Palm's outlet store [palmone.com]. At least then you are not paying the over inflated price.
where the answers are [technicalknow-how.com]
palmOne's product line is a mess (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey Palm: take a lesson from Jobs and cut back to three or four models max instead of seven. Focus on developement and not just marketing. Bring the prices down to something a little more reasonable like:
$100 for a Zire 31 with a 320x320 screen
$250 for a Tungsten C without the 802.11b
They also need to bring back something like the springboard for GSM, 802.11b, bluetooth, whatever. IMO palm is a real mess compared to their early days.
Re:palmOne's product line is a mess (Score:2)
Re:palmOne's product line is a mess (Score:2)
It just is cheaper to buy a PDA with bluespoon built in than to pay through your nose for the SDIO card, unless you happen to have a used to be high end PDA that you absolutely want to have connected to something.
Other options are available as extras as well, such as cameras, WiFi-cards here [sandisk.com] and lotsa other stuff.
7 models is too many? Why, then, is Sony making so many different models of Clie? Why are cars sold in so many
Re:palmOne's product line is a mess (Score:2)
The second card (from Sandisk) isn't made by PalmOne, so that doesn't help or harm my argument, but you'll also note that there aren't (yet) drivers for PalmOS5.
And I don't really think that 7 models is too many...that was the parent to
Re:palmOne's product line is a mess (Score:2, Informative)
- Zire (21/31/71/72) -- Personal/home use, (matching the Apple iBooks 12/14" versions)
- Tungsten (E/T2/T3) -- Business use, (matching the Apple Powerbooks 12/15/17" versions)
There's a bunch of other models, but I don't find PalmOne's product line any more complicated than Apple's. Count in all the eMac, iMac, xServe models and Apple starts to look a lot more complicated.
Just in time for sales slump (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: Just in time for sales slump (Score:2)
They're still a big player in the PDA market, and it's in their best interests to milk that share for as long as possible.
PalmOne (Score:5, Interesting)
Looking around the offices in the past 5 years I'm seeing less and less people using Palm's and those that are have the old Vx's or 50x series. Almost everyone who has a PDA these days has a PocketPC. Even I moved from a Vx to an iPaq and probably won't go back.
If I did then it would be if
Camera, Bluetooth, wireless networking - all came from the PocketPC first because there was competition from the hardware manufacturers to differentiate their product from others. With Palm, there isn't quite so much of a need and so I get the feeling they're playing catch up (even though their screen resolution is better than the PocketPC's - but still no virtual grafitti area)
Re:PalmOne (Score:3, Informative)
Re:PalmOne (Score:2)
Funny you should mention improved Outlook Support as one of your main reasons for not switching to Palm from PPC.
For me it's the other way around.
Palm can support Outlook. Even if it's limited, it's usually one of it's advertising points. However, how easily can a PocketPC support anything other than Outlook? Especially on Windows.
I'd love a PocketPC. Yes, it's Windows/MS, but despite that I wouldn't mind one. They do look somewhat more powerful than Palms. But I like using Palm Desktop and don't (and
Re:PalmOne (Score:2)
80% of the content on that page is PalmOne, 10% is Sony and 10% are companies that i've either never heard of or definately don't sell in the mainstream high-street shops. In those shops I see:
Palm: PalmOne and Sony.
Windows: HP, Acer, Dell, Fui
Quietly, Tungsten T2 Went Away (Score:2)
Re:Quietly, Tungsten T2 Went Away (Score:2)
160x160 color screen (Score:3, Insightful)
Developers ? (Score:2, Informative)
1) Most mailing lists relating to palm software development seem very very quite these days.
2) Not much new software seems to be emerging for palm compared to a year or two ago and all the open source stuff seems to be people just updating old programs to deal with palms new os's.
3) I though
Re:Developers ? (Score:2)
Getting PalmOS ROMS is pretty easy - it took me two days or so from filling in the developers form to getting my password for full access. You can always transfer the ROM off a Palm device if you can find one.
The P
Re:Developers ? (Score:2)
(1) If you're referring to Usenet mailing lists: I perused the comp.sys.* newgroups that pertained to Palm development a while back (I don't recall the specific newsgroups). I concur, they have become stale. I think this is one of the weaknesses of Usenet as opposed to the way Slashdot keeps things interesting. In Usenet, you troll
Not the first (Score:2)
Palm died for me when... (Score:2)
I learned it when I bought my first Palm Pilot and was proficient enough to use it with an outliner to take notes in college. When I bought an m130 with "Grafitti 2" (read: "Not Grafitti"), my handwriting recognition went through the floor. I've tried to adapt to the new style, but I still can't write "E", "S", or "T" on the first try more than 50% of the time. There are work
Re:Palm died for me when... (Score:2)
Re:Palm died for me when... (Score:2)
My favorite is that it "has an easier learning curve". Great. So it's easier for the first two hours, but slower and clumsier for the rest of the time you have the unit.
Note: I've also been told many times that I'm hallucinating, and that my m130 really has Grafitti. Never mind that I have libraries named "Graffiti 2 Extensi
Re:Palm died for me when... (Score:2)
Besides, I'd still be in the same boat as if I install and go with TealScript - it's a temporary solution with no assurance that it will continue to work when I next have to upgrade.
Why Palm do deny me! (Score:2)
I haven't kept up on them, but do not Sony's Clie line just allow you to pop it up in software if you want it and u can write on the rest of the screen as it should be?
I won't spend more than 200 on a pda, and from the looks of things, I won't be buying a Palm any time soon.
Why does everthign need a camera? (Score:2)
It makes me sick. Why is this a feature? I mean, my camcorder even has a flash card for taking photo stills. I don't even get that - I am RECORDING the VIDEO, yet I can take a photo too!?! I mean, it's bad enough that I can't get a cell phone that works because all the R&D is going into making it take a picture, but now my PDA has to have a camera too.
Who are these beatuiful techies that are so vain they need t
Re:what about Linux (Score:2, Insightful)
I love linux and run it on my desktop, but it doesn't make sense everywhere!
Re:what about Linux (Score:3, Informative)
Re:what about Linux (Score:2, Informative)
Why even bother to install linux on it? Half the price is prolly for the PalmOS itself
Re:what about Linux (Score:4, Informative)
Re:what about Linux (Score:2)
Palm doesn't include a JVM on the Zire line. You can get one for about $5 from them, but it also sucks a good chunk of memory. You can get something like SuperWaba [superwaba.com.br], but I don't know what kind of audio API's is has.
As for an OGG player, MMPlayer [mmplayer.com] seems decent.
c.
Re:what about Linux (Score:2)
Java has HUGE amounts of overhead, especially for the kind of math you'd do for a stream decode. You probably wouldn't manage an hour of battery life using a Java-based Ogg player.
Re:what about Linux (Score:3, Informative)
Linux would be interesting because you'd have access to plenty of apps. You could host the compiler on the device (if you had a big memory card). You can get keyboards for these PDAs so if you really must try out some neat idea for an algorithm while you are on the road,
Re:what about Linux (Score:2)
I only tried it out briefly though, as I use a lot of medical software that wouldn't have a version for it.
Re:what about Linux (Score:2)
There was an emulator for LinuxDA floating around, what's funny about LinuxDA is that it's not Open Source at all. And the software, when I tried it a couple years ago, was quite buggy. Perhaps they have fixed it up. But the hardware for it is almost the same as it was a couple years ago. I'm surprised the compa
off topic: Re:Read Slashdot on a PDA? (Score:2)
I, too, wish there was resolution for this.
Re:Reading /. on a PDA. (Score:2)
Re:Read Slashdot on a PDA? (Score:2)
Try Avantslash [fourteenminutes.com]. Works for WAP enabled phones too (automatically routes the phone through the google HTML to WML site).
I am a little biased though.
Re:Why no phone? (Score:2)
There's something to be said for not being reachable 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.