I don't understand why in 2020 ability to dock and connect to K&M and display is not supported by most phones. There were attempts to do just that right before Windows Phone died, but hardly anyone tried this again. You now have enough RAM and CPU to run most desktop applications except maybe high end gaming. Why is it not done more?
I don't understand why in 2020 ability to dock and connect to K&M and display is not supported by most phones.
Because people don't use it. It's been there as a feature before and it's hardly driving sales for those that support it. What workflows do you have that demonstrate the value here?
There were attempts to do just that right before Windows Phone died, but hardly anyone tried this again.
Samsung still have it, it's called Dex.
You now have enough RAM and CPU to run most desktop applications except maybe high end gaming. Why is it not done more?
Can you run all your desktop programs on it? Probably not. Also UIs that work well for one input method generally don't work well for the next so you need to also have adaptive UIs. How many examples of this done well are there?
I seem to remember Motorola had some laptop chassis thing that w
>Also UIs that work well for one input method generally don't work well for the next Very true. >so you need to also have adaptive UIs. For the OS, certainly. And there are some decent examples out there. For everything else... that depends entirely on your approach. And I think adaptive UI is generally the wrong one.
Personally, I run very different kinds of software on my phone than on my PC. Even the web browser is very different, with an interface so dumbed down as to be torture to use for anything
For everything else... that depends entirely on your approach. And I think adaptive UI is generally the wrong one.
Yes I mean you need a 'mobile version' and a 'desktop version', but that has its own problems.
Personally, I run very different kinds of software on my phone than on my PC. Even the web browser is very different, with an interface so dumbed down as to be torture to use for anything more than the most trivial tasks. And I wouldn't even consider using a word processor, CAD, IDE, etc,etc,etc - the phone interface is simply not suited to anything that needs more than the crudest input.
Sure but at that point I'll take my laptop with me. I don't want to be carrying my computer in my pocket but not be able to use it's capabilities without a docking station or having to carry around something like the Droid Bionic Lapdock which is effectively a laptop that's just useless unless you your phone is plugged into it. What problem would this be solving?
It seems to me the natural solution is simply to segregate the software rather than try to adapt the software interface to an unsuitable physical interface.
I think the natural solution is what we've reached no
Obviously one device won't be a versatile as two independent ones - but it can cover a massive amount of the use cases while being far more compact, convenient, and inexpensive. Also keep in mind that FAR more people own a smartphone than own any sort of desktop or laptop computer - for them it would be a huge increase in functionality with no compromises.
Yes I mean you need a 'mobile version' and a 'desktop version', but that has its own problems.
Like what? Plenty of things don't lend themselves to one or the other, but for things that work well on either, I haven't seen any problem having two di
Also keep in mind that FAR more people own a smartphone than own any sort of desktop or laptop computer - for them it would be a huge increase in functionality with no compromises.
My point is we've had this in various guises over the years and users have responded with a resounding "do not want".
The problem of having to buy two expensive computers to do the work that one is capable of.
Yes, if you want to work on the go, a laptop is the way to go. Though there's no reason you couldn't buy a cheap (or very nice) "laptop dock" that's just a screen, keyboard, touchpad, and USB etc.
You're right, there's no reason you couldn't, in fact you could! It was called a 'lapdock' and it's a clumsy experience that people didn't want.
In a world where docking phones were common, I'd fully expect libraries, internet cafes, etc. to offer docking stations so you could use your pocket computer with a desktop interface.
Sounds like a potential security nightmare. "Hey just plug your phone into this dock and allow it access".
I addressed the first - display phone apps as "virtual phones" on your desktop. Unless they use multitouch, etc. they'll work fine as is.
Yes let's revisit the Windows 8 debacle where you could have phone-based UI apps on your desktop alongside traditional desktop programs. Like run
Have we had it in a *good* form though? Even this Librem 5 seems... mediocre at best (Only 3GB of RAM, really?)
Offer consumers a crap product, and it's going to sell like crap, no matter how good the idea behind it is.
>Sounds like a potential security nightmare. "Hey just plug your phone into this dock and allow it access". I'll agree with you there. USB is long overdue for a major security overhaul as it becomes a general peer-to-peer interconnect standard, rather than just a peripheral interface.
However, there's no particular reason to give anything access when you plug it in - that's an OS-configuration choice to make your phone easier to use as a computer peripheral for syncing, etc. Mice, keyboards, storage devices, monitors... none of those need access to anything on your phone, the computer accesses their state, not the other way around. And there's absolutely no reason that, when plugging in an unrecognized device that wants access to the phone, it couldn't put up a bright flashing message:
!!!WARNING!!! UNRECOGNIZED DEVICE ATTEMPTING TO ACCESS YOUR PHONE This warning will NOT be displayed for normal peripherals like keyboards and display screens SAY NO unless you're SURE the connected device can be trusted! Do you want to allow this device to access all the private data on your phone? [ NO, definitely not, I'm not stupid!] [ Yes, this is my personal computer or other device that I trust with access to my most private information]
And if you choose yes
ARE YOU SURE? This device will get complete access to all the personal information on your phone, potentially including credit card numbers, bank passwords, etc. DO NOT SAY YES unless you're *sure* the device is trustworthy [WAIT! NO! I didn't mean it!] [Yes, I'm really sure] [x] Remember this device and don't ask me again
All the people commenting there (including myself:)) are team members, and I can tell you that the non-public issue that's linked from there is about a similar thing. It's not a top priority thing at the moment, but it's not just a suggestion either.
USB charging ports are widely available, and there have already been a number of documented attacks by malicious hardware hidden inside seemingly "dumb" chargers. Used to be you could at least use a power-only charging cable to recharge in safety, but toda'ys power-hungry phones need much higher amperage charging, for which the data lines are necessary to determine the chargers capability.
FWIW you can override the current limit of the battery charger chip on the Librem 5, so if you know that your charger will provide 5V/2A you can use a power-only charging cable and then set the current limit to 2A manually, which should give you enough headroom to still charge the phone while in use.
Hmm - sounds like something that would be valuable to prompt for whenever connected with a "dumb" cable. You do default to the standard-compliant 100mA in the absence of power negotiation, I hope?
A bit of a tangent, but if you're involved in the project... why only 3GB of RAM? That's pretty low for a smartphone, and painfully low for a desktop system, even a streamlined Linux one. Given the fact that you really don't want to be hammering a pagefile on a flash device that seems like a poor place to cut co
Offer consumers a crap product, and it's going to sell like crap, no matter how good the idea behind it is.
This just seems like a crap idea that results in a crap product. When I'm at home I plug my laptop into a monitor and use wireless keyboard and mouse, then when I take it with me - wherever I go - I can still use it as a laptop, I don't have to find a keyboard, mouse, monitor and usb hub (or carry them with me) to dock it to in order to use it. Also if I'm doing something on the laptop - processing a video, compiling something, uploading a file, etc... I can still go and use my phone, I can leave my laptop t
That would go down like UAT on Microsoft. Users learn "oh, I just hit yes, then yes again when it asks all that complicated stuff. Be sure to check that box or it won't stop annoying you".
You mean UAC? That was annoying at first because so many legacy programs assumed they had access to all sorts of system stuff they didn't really need (especially back when user data were stored in the application folder) - but how often do you see it today? I sincerely hope you don't give random power chargers or (seeming) flash drives administrative access to your PC.
Do you frequently connect your phone to new devices that you want to give total access to everything on it?
I mean, aside from your home co
"Just think of a computer as hardware you can program."
-- Nigel de la Tierre
Docking smartphones (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:4, Informative)
I don't understand why in 2020 ability to dock and connect to K&M and display is not supported by most phones.
Because people don't use it. It's been there as a feature before and it's hardly driving sales for those that support it. What workflows do you have that demonstrate the value here?
There were attempts to do just that right before Windows Phone died, but hardly anyone tried this again.
Samsung still have it, it's called Dex.
You now have enough RAM and CPU to run most desktop applications except maybe high end gaming. Why is it not done more?
Can you run all your desktop programs on it? Probably not. Also UIs that work well for one input method generally don't work well for the next so you need to also have adaptive UIs. How many examples of this done well are there?
I seem to remember Motorola had some laptop chassis thing that w
Re: (Score:2)
>Also UIs that work well for one input method generally don't work well for the next
Very true.
>so you need to also have adaptive UIs.
For the OS, certainly. And there are some decent examples out there.
For everything else... that depends entirely on your approach. And I think adaptive UI is generally the wrong one.
Personally, I run very different kinds of software on my phone than on my PC. Even the web browser is very different, with an interface so dumbed down as to be torture to use for anything
Re: (Score:0)
For everything else... that depends entirely on your approach. And I think adaptive UI is generally the wrong one.
Yes I mean you need a 'mobile version' and a 'desktop version', but that has its own problems.
Personally, I run very different kinds of software on my phone than on my PC. Even the web browser is very different, with an interface so dumbed down as to be torture to use for anything more than the most trivial tasks. And I wouldn't even consider using a word processor, CAD, IDE, etc,etc,etc - the phone interface is simply not suited to anything that needs more than the crudest input.
Sure but at that point I'll take my laptop with me. I don't want to be carrying my computer in my pocket but not be able to use it's capabilities without a docking station or having to carry around something like the Droid Bionic Lapdock which is effectively a laptop that's just useless unless you your phone is plugged into it. What problem would this be solving?
It seems to me the natural solution is simply to segregate the software rather than try to adapt the software interface to an unsuitable physical interface.
I think the natural solution is what we've reached no
Re: (Score:2)
Obviously one device won't be a versatile as two independent ones - but it can cover a massive amount of the use cases while being far more compact, convenient, and inexpensive. Also keep in mind that FAR more people own a smartphone than own any sort of desktop or laptop computer - for them it would be a huge increase in functionality with no compromises.
Yes I mean you need a 'mobile version' and a 'desktop version', but that has its own problems.
Like what? Plenty of things don't lend themselves to one or the other, but for things that work well on either, I haven't seen any problem having two di
Re: (Score:0)
Also keep in mind that FAR more people own a smartphone than own any sort of desktop or laptop computer - for them it would be a huge increase in functionality with no compromises.
My point is we've had this in various guises over the years and users have responded with a resounding "do not want".
The problem of having to buy two expensive computers to do the work that one is capable of.
Yes, if you want to work on the go, a laptop is the way to go. Though there's no reason you couldn't buy a cheap (or very nice) "laptop dock" that's just a screen, keyboard, touchpad, and USB etc.
You're right, there's no reason you couldn't, in fact you could! It was called a 'lapdock' and it's a clumsy experience that people didn't want.
In a world where docking phones were common, I'd fully expect libraries, internet cafes, etc. to offer docking stations so you could use your pocket computer with a desktop interface.
Sounds like a potential security nightmare. "Hey just plug your phone into this dock and allow it access".
I addressed the first - display phone apps as "virtual phones" on your desktop. Unless they use multitouch, etc. they'll work fine as is.
Yes let's revisit the Windows 8 debacle where you could have phone-based UI apps on your desktop alongside traditional desktop programs. Like run
Re:Docking smartphones (Score:2)
Have we had it in a *good* form though? Even this Librem 5 seems... mediocre at best (Only 3GB of RAM, really?)
Offer consumers a crap product, and it's going to sell like crap, no matter how good the idea behind it is.
>Sounds like a potential security nightmare. "Hey just plug your phone into this dock and allow it access".
I'll agree with you there. USB is long overdue for a major security overhaul as it becomes a general peer-to-peer interconnect standard, rather than just a peripheral interface.
However, there's no particular reason to give anything access when you plug it in - that's an OS-configuration choice to make your phone easier to use as a computer peripheral for syncing, etc. Mice, keyboards, storage devices, monitors... none of those need access to anything on your phone, the computer accesses their state, not the other way around. And there's absolutely no reason that, when plugging in an unrecognized device that wants access to the phone, it couldn't put up a bright flashing message:
!!!WARNING!!!
UNRECOGNIZED DEVICE ATTEMPTING TO ACCESS YOUR PHONE
This warning will NOT be displayed for normal peripherals like keyboards and display screens
SAY NO unless you're SURE the connected device can be trusted!
Do you want to allow this device to access all the private data on your phone?
[ NO, definitely not, I'm not stupid!]
[ Yes, this is my personal computer or other device that I trust with access to my most private information]
And if you choose yes
ARE YOU SURE?
This device will get complete access to all the personal information on your phone, potentially including credit card numbers, bank passwords, etc.
DO NOT SAY YES unless you're *sure* the device is trustworthy
[WAIT! NO! I didn't mean it!]
[Yes, I'm really sure]
[x] Remember this device and don't ask me again
Re: (Score:2)
FWIW such feature is on the Librem 5 roadmap: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5... [source.puri.sm]
Re: (Score:2)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks like an bug/suggestion tracker "issue", and with zero upvotes at that. NOT a product roadmap.
Re: (Score:2)
All the people commenting there (including myself :)) are team members, and I can tell you that the non-public issue that's linked from there is about a similar thing. It's not a top priority thing at the moment, but it's not just a suggestion either.
Re: (Score:2)
Good to know - get on that would you ;-)
USB charging ports are widely available, and there have already been a number of documented attacks by malicious hardware hidden inside seemingly "dumb" chargers. Used to be you could at least use a power-only charging cable to recharge in safety, but toda'ys power-hungry phones need much higher amperage charging, for which the data lines are necessary to determine the chargers capability.
Re: (Score:2)
FWIW you can override the current limit of the battery charger chip on the Librem 5, so if you know that your charger will provide 5V/2A you can use a power-only charging cable and then set the current limit to 2A manually, which should give you enough headroom to still charge the phone while in use.
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm - sounds like something that would be valuable to prompt for whenever connected with a "dumb" cable. You do default to the standard-compliant 100mA in the absence of power negotiation, I hope?
A bit of a tangent, but if you're involved in the project... why only 3GB of RAM? That's pretty low for a smartphone, and painfully low for a desktop system, even a streamlined Linux one. Given the fact that you really don't want to be hammering a pagefile on a flash device that seems like a poor place to cut co
Re: (Score:2)
Offer consumers a crap product, and it's going to sell like crap, no matter how good the idea behind it is.
This just seems like a crap idea that results in a crap product. When I'm at home I plug my laptop into a monitor and use wireless keyboard and mouse, then when I take it with me - wherever I go - I can still use it as a laptop, I don't have to find a keyboard, mouse, monitor and usb hub (or carry them with me) to dock it to in order to use it.
Also if I'm doing something on the laptop - processing a video, compiling something, uploading a file, etc... I can still go and use my phone, I can leave my laptop t
Re: (Score:2)
That would go down like UAT on Microsoft. Users learn "oh, I just hit yes, then yes again when it asks all that complicated stuff. Be sure to check that box or it won't stop annoying you".
Re: (Score:2)
You mean UAC? That was annoying at first because so many legacy programs assumed they had access to all sorts of system stuff they didn't really need (especially back when user data were stored in the application folder) - but how often do you see it today? I sincerely hope you don't give random power chargers or (seeming) flash drives administrative access to your PC.
Do you frequently connect your phone to new devices that you want to give total access to everything on it?
I mean, aside from your home co