I don't understand why in 2020 ability to dock and connect to K&M and display is not supported by most phones. There were attempts to do just that right before Windows Phone died, but hardly anyone tried this again. You now have enough RAM and CPU to run most desktop applications except maybe high end gaming. Why is it not done more?
I don't understand why in 2020 ability to dock and connect to K&M and display is not supported by most phones.
Because people don't use it. It's been there as a feature before and it's hardly driving sales for those that support it. What workflows do you have that demonstrate the value here?
There were attempts to do just that right before Windows Phone died, but hardly anyone tried this again.
Samsung still have it, it's called Dex.
You now have enough RAM and CPU to run most desktop applications except maybe high end gaming. Why is it not done more?
Can you run all your desktop programs on it? Probably not. Also UIs that work well for one input method generally don't work well for the next so you need to also have adaptive UIs. How many examples of this done well are there?
I seem to remember Motorola had some laptop chassis thing that w
>Also UIs that work well for one input method generally don't work well for the next Very true. >so you need to also have adaptive UIs. For the OS, certainly. And there are some decent examples out there. For everything else... that depends entirely on your approach. And I think adaptive UI is generally the wrong one.
Personally, I run very different kinds of software on my phone than on my PC. Even the web browser is very different, with an interface so dumbed down as to be torture to use for anything
For everything else... that depends entirely on your approach. And I think adaptive UI is generally the wrong one.
Yes I mean you need a 'mobile version' and a 'desktop version', but that has its own problems.
Personally, I run very different kinds of software on my phone than on my PC. Even the web browser is very different, with an interface so dumbed down as to be torture to use for anything more than the most trivial tasks. And I wouldn't even consider using a word processor, CAD, IDE, etc,etc,etc - the phone interface is simply not suited to anything that needs more than the crudest input.
Sure but at that point I'll take my laptop with me. I don't want to be carrying my computer in my pocket but not be able to use it's capabilities without a docking station or having to carry around something like the Droid Bionic Lapdock which is effectively a laptop that's just useless unless you your phone is plugged into it. What problem would this be solving?
It seems to me the natural solution is simply to segregate the software rather than try to adapt the software interface to an unsuitable physical interface.
I think the natural solution is what we've reached no
Obviously one device won't be a versatile as two independent ones - but it can cover a massive amount of the use cases while being far more compact, convenient, and inexpensive. Also keep in mind that FAR more people own a smartphone than own any sort of desktop or laptop computer - for them it would be a huge increase in functionality with no compromises.
Yes I mean you need a 'mobile version' and a 'desktop version', but that has its own problems.
Like what? Plenty of things don't lend themselves to one or the other, but for things that work well on either, I haven't seen any problem having two different versions. Other than the extra developer workload, but that's unavoidable unless the phone version works just fine in a desktop window and doesn't suffer from any phone-based compromises demanding a desktop version.
Sure but at that point I'll take my laptop with me [....] What problem would this be solving?
The problem of having to buy two expensive computers to do the work that one is capable of.
Yes, if you want to work on the go, a laptop is the way to go. Though there's no reason you couldn't buy a cheap (or very nice) "laptop dock" that's just a screen, keyboard, touchpad, and USB etc. hub, and then use that across several generations of increasingly powerful phone. The cable connecting to your phone is a hassle, but depending on usage you could go cordless, or include a phone-storage tray.
And if you're not actually doing computer stuff while on the move, but only at the endpoints, then things can start looking really different. TVs are everywhere, keyboards almost as much so. If you're staying with a friend there's a very good chance they have a TV in the guest room, and a decent chance they've got an old keyboard laying around somewhere. Heck, I've done that with my laptop when working on something that called for a larger screen.
In a world where docking phones were common, I'd fully expect libraries, internet cafes, etc. to offer docking stations so you could use your pocket computer with a desktop interface. They'd be a lot cheaper than full computers, both for the hardware, and the total lack of software maintenance, so they could afford to have many more available. And I'd fully expect hotels to include a keyboard along with the TV in your room so that you could work in comfort.
Not to mention the wide range of ultra-portable interfaces that already exist and whose price and quality are improving, like laser-projected screens and keyboards. You could use those as separate modules, or integrate them directly into higher-end phones. Then all you need is a desk and maybe a wall to use your phone in desktop mode.
Like what if I want to use my phone app when I'm in 'desktop mode' or vice versa? It's just clumsy.
I addressed the first - display phone apps as "virtual phones" on your desktop. Unless they use multitouch, etc. they'll work fine as is. Or, leave the phone working as normal while it *also* displays desktop mode on the external screen. Using desktop apps on the phone alone would definitely be clumsy, but it would at least be possible, without lugging around a huge laptop. And adding a compact travel mouse would make a huge difference - the big limit on phones is not so much the screen size, as it is the coarseness of touch control. And again, TVs are everywhere.
Have we had it in a *good* form though? Even this Librem 5 seems... mediocre at best (Only 3GB of RAM, really?)
Offer consumers a crap product, and it's going to sell like crap, no matter how good the idea behind it is.
>Sounds like a potential security nightmare. "Hey just plug your phone into this dock and allow it access". I'll agree with you there. USB is long overdue for a major security overhaul as it becomes a general peer-to-peer interconnect standard, rather than just a peripheral interface.
All the people commenting there (including myself:)) are team members, and I can tell you that the non-public issue that's linked from there is about a similar thing. It's not a top priority thing at the moment, but it's not just a suggestion either.
USB charging ports are widely available, and there have already been a number of documented attacks by malicious hardware hidden inside seemingly "dumb" chargers. Used to be you could at least use a power-only charging cable to recharge in safety, but toda'ys power-hungry phones need much higher amperage charging, for which the data lines are necessary to determine the chargers capability.
FWIW you can override the current limit of the battery charger chip on the Librem 5, so if you know that your charger will provide 5V/2A you can use a power-only charging cable and then set the current limit to 2A manually, which should give you enough headroom to still charge the phone while in use.
Hmm - sounds like something that would be valuable to prompt for whenever connected with a "dumb" cable. You do default to the standard-compliant 100mA in the absence of power negotiation, I hope?
A bit of a tangent, but if you're involved in the project... why only 3GB of RAM? That's pretty low for a smartphone, and painfully low for a desktop system, even a streamlined Linux one. Given the fact that you really don't want to be hammering a pagefile on a flash device that seems like a poor place to cut co
Offer consumers a crap product, and it's going to sell like crap, no matter how good the idea behind it is.
This just seems like a crap idea that results in a crap product. When I'm at home I plug my laptop into a monitor and use wireless keyboard and mouse, then when I take it with me - wherever I go - I can still use it as a laptop, I don't have to find a keyboard, mouse, monitor and usb hub (or carry them with me) to dock it to in order to use it. Also if I'm doing something on the laptop - processing a video, compiling something, uploading a file, etc... I can still go and use my phone, I can leave my laptop t
That would go down like UAT on Microsoft. Users learn "oh, I just hit yes, then yes again when it asks all that complicated stuff. Be sure to check that box or it won't stop annoying you".
You mean UAC? That was annoying at first because so many legacy programs assumed they had access to all sorts of system stuff they didn't really need (especially back when user data were stored in the application folder) - but how often do you see it today? I sincerely hope you don't give random power chargers or (seeming) flash drives administrative access to your PC.
Do you frequently connect your phone to new devices that you want to give total access to everything on it?
I mean, aside from your home co
"Just think of a computer as hardware you can program."
-- Nigel de la Tierre
Docking smartphones (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:4, Informative)
I don't understand why in 2020 ability to dock and connect to K&M and display is not supported by most phones.
Because people don't use it. It's been there as a feature before and it's hardly driving sales for those that support it. What workflows do you have that demonstrate the value here?
There were attempts to do just that right before Windows Phone died, but hardly anyone tried this again.
Samsung still have it, it's called Dex.
You now have enough RAM and CPU to run most desktop applications except maybe high end gaming. Why is it not done more?
Can you run all your desktop programs on it? Probably not. Also UIs that work well for one input method generally don't work well for the next so you need to also have adaptive UIs. How many examples of this done well are there?
I seem to remember Motorola had some laptop chassis thing that w
Re: (Score:2)
>Also UIs that work well for one input method generally don't work well for the next
Very true.
>so you need to also have adaptive UIs.
For the OS, certainly. And there are some decent examples out there.
For everything else... that depends entirely on your approach. And I think adaptive UI is generally the wrong one.
Personally, I run very different kinds of software on my phone than on my PC. Even the web browser is very different, with an interface so dumbed down as to be torture to use for anything
Re: (Score:0)
For everything else... that depends entirely on your approach. And I think adaptive UI is generally the wrong one.
Yes I mean you need a 'mobile version' and a 'desktop version', but that has its own problems.
Personally, I run very different kinds of software on my phone than on my PC. Even the web browser is very different, with an interface so dumbed down as to be torture to use for anything more than the most trivial tasks. And I wouldn't even consider using a word processor, CAD, IDE, etc,etc,etc - the phone interface is simply not suited to anything that needs more than the crudest input.
Sure but at that point I'll take my laptop with me. I don't want to be carrying my computer in my pocket but not be able to use it's capabilities without a docking station or having to carry around something like the Droid Bionic Lapdock which is effectively a laptop that's just useless unless you your phone is plugged into it. What problem would this be solving?
It seems to me the natural solution is simply to segregate the software rather than try to adapt the software interface to an unsuitable physical interface.
I think the natural solution is what we've reached no
Re:Docking smartphones (Score:2)
Obviously one device won't be a versatile as two independent ones - but it can cover a massive amount of the use cases while being far more compact, convenient, and inexpensive. Also keep in mind that FAR more people own a smartphone than own any sort of desktop or laptop computer - for them it would be a huge increase in functionality with no compromises.
Yes I mean you need a 'mobile version' and a 'desktop version', but that has its own problems.
Like what? Plenty of things don't lend themselves to one or the other, but for things that work well on either, I haven't seen any problem having two different versions. Other than the extra developer workload, but that's unavoidable unless the phone version works just fine in a desktop window and doesn't suffer from any phone-based compromises demanding a desktop version.
Sure but at that point I'll take my laptop with me [....] What problem would this be solving?
The problem of having to buy two expensive computers to do the work that one is capable of.
Yes, if you want to work on the go, a laptop is the way to go. Though there's no reason you couldn't buy a cheap (or very nice) "laptop dock" that's just a screen, keyboard, touchpad, and USB etc. hub, and then use that across several generations of increasingly powerful phone. The cable connecting to your phone is a hassle, but depending on usage you could go cordless, or include a phone-storage tray.
And if you're not actually doing computer stuff while on the move, but only at the endpoints, then things can start looking really different. TVs are everywhere, keyboards almost as much so. If you're staying with a friend there's a very good chance they have a TV in the guest room, and a decent chance they've got an old keyboard laying around somewhere. Heck, I've done that with my laptop when working on something that called for a larger screen.
In a world where docking phones were common, I'd fully expect libraries, internet cafes, etc. to offer docking stations so you could use your pocket computer with a desktop interface. They'd be a lot cheaper than full computers, both for the hardware, and the total lack of software maintenance, so they could afford to have many more available. And I'd fully expect hotels to include a keyboard along with the TV in your room so that you could work in comfort.
Not to mention the wide range of ultra-portable interfaces that already exist and whose price and quality are improving, like laser-projected screens and keyboards. You could use those as separate modules, or integrate them directly into higher-end phones. Then all you need is a desk and maybe a wall to use your phone in desktop mode.
Like what if I want to use my phone app when I'm in 'desktop mode' or vice versa? It's just clumsy.
I addressed the first - display phone apps as "virtual phones" on your desktop. Unless they use multitouch, etc. they'll work fine as is.
Or, leave the phone working as normal while it *also* displays desktop mode on the external screen.
Using desktop apps on the phone alone would definitely be clumsy, but it would at least be possible, without lugging around a huge laptop. And adding a compact travel mouse would make a huge difference - the big limit on phones is not so much the screen size, as it is the coarseness of touch control. And again, TVs are everywhere.
Re: (Score:2)
Have we had it in a *good* form though? Even this Librem 5 seems... mediocre at best (Only 3GB of RAM, really?)
Offer consumers a crap product, and it's going to sell like crap, no matter how good the idea behind it is.
>Sounds like a potential security nightmare. "Hey just plug your phone into this dock and allow it access".
I'll agree with you there. USB is long overdue for a major security overhaul as it becomes a general peer-to-peer interconnect standard, rather than just a peripheral interface.
Howev
Re: (Score:2)
FWIW such feature is on the Librem 5 roadmap: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5... [source.puri.sm]
Re: (Score:2)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks like an bug/suggestion tracker "issue", and with zero upvotes at that. NOT a product roadmap.
Re: (Score:2)
All the people commenting there (including myself :)) are team members, and I can tell you that the non-public issue that's linked from there is about a similar thing. It's not a top priority thing at the moment, but it's not just a suggestion either.
Re: (Score:2)
Good to know - get on that would you ;-)
USB charging ports are widely available, and there have already been a number of documented attacks by malicious hardware hidden inside seemingly "dumb" chargers. Used to be you could at least use a power-only charging cable to recharge in safety, but toda'ys power-hungry phones need much higher amperage charging, for which the data lines are necessary to determine the chargers capability.
Re: (Score:2)
FWIW you can override the current limit of the battery charger chip on the Librem 5, so if you know that your charger will provide 5V/2A you can use a power-only charging cable and then set the current limit to 2A manually, which should give you enough headroom to still charge the phone while in use.
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm - sounds like something that would be valuable to prompt for whenever connected with a "dumb" cable. You do default to the standard-compliant 100mA in the absence of power negotiation, I hope?
A bit of a tangent, but if you're involved in the project... why only 3GB of RAM? That's pretty low for a smartphone, and painfully low for a desktop system, even a streamlined Linux one. Given the fact that you really don't want to be hammering a pagefile on a flash device that seems like a poor place to cut co
Re: (Score:2)
Offer consumers a crap product, and it's going to sell like crap, no matter how good the idea behind it is.
This just seems like a crap idea that results in a crap product. When I'm at home I plug my laptop into a monitor and use wireless keyboard and mouse, then when I take it with me - wherever I go - I can still use it as a laptop, I don't have to find a keyboard, mouse, monitor and usb hub (or carry them with me) to dock it to in order to use it.
Also if I'm doing something on the laptop - processing a video, compiling something, uploading a file, etc... I can still go and use my phone, I can leave my laptop t
Re: (Score:2)
That would go down like UAT on Microsoft. Users learn "oh, I just hit yes, then yes again when it asks all that complicated stuff. Be sure to check that box or it won't stop annoying you".
Re: (Score:2)
You mean UAC? That was annoying at first because so many legacy programs assumed they had access to all sorts of system stuff they didn't really need (especially back when user data were stored in the application folder) - but how often do you see it today? I sincerely hope you don't give random power chargers or (seeming) flash drives administrative access to your PC.
Do you frequently connect your phone to new devices that you want to give total access to everything on it?
I mean, aside from your home co