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Blackberry Cellphones Handhelds

RIM's BB10 Campaign Requires Some Serious Work 171

Posted by Soulskill
from the market-share-is-for-closers dept.
adeelarshad82 writes "With the BlackBerry 10 launch just around the corner, there is a lot of pressure on RIM's CEO to provide a 'Steve Jobs Moment.' However, given BlackBerry's 1.1% percent market share compared to the combined 92% share between rivals Android and iOS, it's a long road back. To add to the struggle, no other first-generation smartphone leader has been able to pull off this kind of rebirth. Palm and Symbian are dead and Microsoft is struggling. But, as one mobile analyst explains, RIM has a chance to carve out its own market with tomorrow's launch of BlackBerry 10 given that they get a few things right. They need to heavily promote their devices to CEOs, heavily promote the top apps to users, and most of all, they need to be able to explain why people should give it a look."
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RIM's BB10 Campaign Requires Some Serious Work

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  • "RIM has a chance to carve out its own market with tomorrow's launch of BlackBerry 10 given that they get a few things right. They need to heavily promote their devices to CEOs, heavily promote the top apps to users, and most of all, they need to be able to explain why people should give it a look."

    The analyst's statement sounds obvious to me. Seriously, does one need an analyst to come up with such an appraisal?

    I guess I could be one, right?

    • by vakuona (788200)

      The statement is obvious and wrong and typical CEO-think. Heck, it is what Ballmer thought he needed to do to go past the iPhone. Don't believe me, lookup the infamous video on Youtube where Ballmer declares the iPhone DOA because "it doesn't appeal to business customers because it doesn't have a keyboard". What has been lost in that is that business users no longer drive smartphone adoption. Heck, many companies now let ordinary users pick the devices they want.

      Blackberry needs to take 1 or 2 billion dolla

  • ^ There, I summerized the obvious in one phrase.

    Oops, guess I should have written a two page listicle so I could call myself a "mobile analyst" and get paid for stating the really fucking obvious.

  • In just few hours we will get the full announce, and then decide if they need to improve or not. The user interface looks pretty nice (a step forward the one in the N9), if they add to that android app compatibility and ability to run apps from other QT based mobile OSs (no matter so much now, but probably will do in 6-12 months) and dont get crazy with prices (i.e. not 3+ x times the Nexus 4), they should be ok.
    • by h4rr4r (612664)

      If it still requires BES it will be stillborn.

      • by zlives (2009072)

        doesn't require "BES" but does provide some additional security options for enterprise with BES 10 Services

        • by h4rr4r (612664)

          No one cares anymore.

          BES sucks too much for the small gain. If you doubt it ask anyone who ever had to admin a BES server.

          If their product was not so terrible they would never have ended up in this position.

          • by zlives (2009072)

            "admin a BES server" ... umm that would be me :) , and personally I never really had much issues with it.
            if by their product, you mean the phone devices, i would agree. I did like the fact that BB phones always assumed i wanted to use the phone as a phone first.
            the BB10 services is kind of like MAAS360 and other Activesync device mgmt software so personally once the devices are out we will test them out and compare with their competition.

            • by h4rr4r (612664)

              You never had to restart it to get a device working again? No pushing of service books and in general it being a pain in the ass?

              Smart devices are not phones first. I use mine for computer like tasks hundreds of times more than for phone calls. Honestly if I had to lose one feature the phone would be the first one my list to go.

              • You never had to restart it to get a device working again? No pushing of service books and in general it being a pain in the ass?

                In my company the BES has uptimes measured in months. Pushing service books almost never, except where the user has really messed up hvis phone.
                Could it be that BES for Domino is more stable than BES for Exchange?

  • by gstoddart (321705) on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @04:01PM (#42730471) Homepage

    I'll be interested to see how this plays out.

    I suspect a lot of people have mostly decided RIM is a dead horse and moved on. You could offer me a BlackBerry for free, and I'm not sure I'd care. And the dirty looks I still get from the wife when her Playbook is crashing tells me she's not someone who would recommend any of their products.

    If what they release is business-centric with a focus on connecting to an Exchange server, then I predict that the consumers who buy most smart phones nowadays will decide they're not offering anything of value.

    It's become like the Amiga or SGI ... a couple of the die hard fans still saying how awesome it is and how we're all missing out, and a huge amount of people not interested.

    • Never too late for a secure phone. Doubt Android will ever be a truly private experience because that is where they make the money. I would rather buy an American phone like BB or Apple then some cheap phone made in China loaded with OS that wants to "monetize" me and recoup subsidy costs some other way..
      • by Dishevel (1105119)

        It is incredibly easy to never sync with a gmail account, and not use the Play store.
        You do not need to load Maps, or Youtube on it.
        You can Root and side load whatever apps you like.
        There are also very secure ROMs you can run.

      • by danomac (1032160)

        Well, Apple's manufacturing is mostly in China, so scratch that.

        Blackberries were made in Canada and Mexico, unless that's changed. Still made in North America though.

  • by crazyjj (2598719) * on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @04:02PM (#42730483)

    Selling it as a phone that combines the security and safety of an enterprise phone with the features an fun of a "home" phone is the right approach. But they're still going to have to prove themselves on both fronts. And the clock is definitely ticking.

    I don't think it's too late for them, but it's definitely the 11th hour.

    • by PNutts (199112)

      Selling it as a phone that combines the security and safety of an enterprise phone with the features an fun of a "home" phone is the right approach. But they're still going to have to prove themselves on both fronts. And the clock is definitely ticking.

      I don't think it's too late for them, but it's definitely the 11th hour.

      iOS and Android already have this so what's going to make it stand out?

      • by crazyjj (2598719) *

        They still have some clout in enterprise circles, where they're coasting on their name and one-time legendary rep, basically.

        Not saying that's going to be enough. Just saying that if there is a CHANCE, this is the best hope they've got.

      • by ctr2sprt (574731)

        I'd love to see an email app that complies with IT demands for a PIN lock, encryption, and remote wipe capabilities without turning those features on for the entire phone. I don't want to enter a goddamn PIN code just so I can play Zookeeper Battle. I don't need to encrypt the pictures of my wife and kid I have on my phone. And I don't think IT really cares if my Plants vs. Zombies achievements get stolen by a hacker.

        I mean, I still wouldn't buy a Blackberry device. But that strikes me as an actual busi

        • by narcc (412956)

          All the other stuff people are talking about here -- "connect to an Exchange server" and "view Excel spreadsheets" seem to be the most common -- can already be done by every other phone in existence. Those aren't awesome things your BB does.

          Ummm... Yes, they are. You've been able to do those things for years. Yes, you've been able to connect to an Exchange Server without BES since before the iPhone even existed.

          Reading nothing but the ridiculous comments here you'd think that the BB was little more than an inert lump of ugly plastic.

          • by compro01 (777531)

            You're misreading. He's saying that people are purporting those as unique blackberry features, when everything else can also do that stuff.

            • by narcc (412956)

              I see. Still, other phones can't do some things a BlackBerry can do. I hesitate to offer any as I'm likely to get shouted down as pale analogs of whatever I suggest will be offered as evidence against the point.

              Take MDM, for example. Just about every smartphone features it, but none come close to the level of control or number of features offered by RIM. iMessage was touted as a BBM killer even though it was laughably incomplete in comparison. I've yet to see true push email on anything other than a B

      • From what I've heard BB10 has discrete sand-boxing functionality for work and home email, contacts, phone books, etc built into the OS. My Nexus 4 certainly doesn't have that, not sure about the iOS world. The closest thing I've seen on another phone is "kids mode" on Windows 8 phones, which is a great idea IMO. Companies are requiring more and more security measures in place phones, PCs, etc so I think this feature will at least get some notice by the Fortune 500.
      • by ArhcAngel (247594)

        Selling it as a phone that combines the security and safety of an enterprise phone with the features an fun of a "home" phone is the right approach. But they're still going to have to prove themselves on both fronts. And the clock is definitely ticking.

        I don't think it's too late for them, but it's definitely the 11th hour.

        iOS and Android already have this so what's going to make it stand out?

        No...they don't. They really don't. Neither OS was designed with enterprise deployment in mind. The new BYOD model is exactly like herding cats. A quick glance at this chart [wikipedia.org] shows just how much is left untouched.

        IBM's Endpoint Manager [ibm.com] which wants to be the BES for Apple devices is a royal PITA to use and certainly not as seamless as a BB BES solution. I am praying we ditch it for BES 10 now that it is out and allows BB, Android or iOS devices to be managed. I have been saying it since the first iOS devic

    • by Blakey Rat (99501)

      Selling it as a phone that combines the security and safety of an enterprise phone with the features an fun of a "home" phone is the right approach.

      It was the right approach 3 years ago when everybody else did it, too: iOS, Android and Windows Phone 7 & 8 have that already.

      They need to move beyond "enterprise", because what was previously their selling point is now just another bulletpoint feature all smartphones have.

      • by narcc (412956)

        Selling it as a phone that combines the security and safety of an enterprise phone with the features an fun of a "home" phone is the right approach.

        It was the right approach 3 years ago when everybody else did it, too: iOS, Android and Windows Phone 7 & 8 have that already.

        Yeah, because "security" is synonymous with iOS, Android, and WP. What color is the sky in your world?

        RIM still offers the only enterprise-ready smartphone and still offers the best and most comprehensive MDM solution. iOS and Android aren't even close *today* let alone three years ago!

        This is to say nothing about features like Balance that truly separate business and personal use in an unobtrusive way that, quite frankly, other platforms simply can't manage.

        • by Blakey Rat (99501)

          How's the weather up there in Waterloo?

          • by narcc (412956)

            Did I say something inaccurate?

            As far as I can tell, that's just the way things are. Stating the facts shouldn't mark me as a shill!

        • by Abreu (173023)

          As posted above, Android 4.2 has exactly that. You can log in into your phone as two different users and have work and play perfectly separated.

          • by narcc (412956)

            Not even close.

            Switch accounts in less than a second with a swipe and a tap, and you might be able to argue a case, but you still won't get features like (for example) preventing copy/paste between work and personal accounts.

            Balance is oh-so-much more than a simple user account!

          • As posted above, Android 4.2 has exactly that. You can log in into your phone as two different users and have work and play perfectly separated.

            So you can set up one user account for remote wipe while the other remains untouched?
            BB Balance isn''t user accounts but closer to running two instances of Android in a VM.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @04:02PM (#42730485)

    This smart phone is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! This is a late smart phone! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to your business unit would be pushing up the daisies! Its market processes are of interest only to historians! It's hopped the twig! It's shuffled off this mortal coil! It's run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! This.... is an EX-SMARTPHONE!

    • Invisible hand of the market: Bring out yer dead! Bring out yer dead!
      Consumers: Here's one!
      IHOTM: Ninepence.
      RIM: I'm not dead!
      IHOTM: What?
      Consumers: Nothing, here's your ninepence
      RIM: I'm not dead!
      IHOTM: Here, he says he's not dead.
      Consumers: Yes he is.
      RIM: I'm not!
      IHOTM: He's not.
      Consumers: Well, he will be soon, his products are rubbish
      RIM: They're getting better!
      Consumers: No they aren't, and your market share is crap. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
      IHOTM: Well I can't take him like that. It's against

    • by RedBear (207369)

      This smart phone is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! This is a late smart phone! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to your business unit would be pushing up the daisies! Its market processes are of interest only to historians! It's hopped the twig! It's shuffled off this mortal coil! It's run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! This.... is an EX-SMARTPHONE!

      Beau'iful plumage!

  • It has a chance (Score:5, Interesting)

    by blind biker (1066130) on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @04:06PM (#42730521) Journal

    I've seen it in action, and it reminded me of Android, but in many aspects it's better. Porting Android apps to BB10 is, apparently, pretty straightforward (sometimes downright effortless) and there will be 70.000 ready at launch.

    So it has a fighting chance. Let's see how it plays out. Personally, I think it has slightly better odds than Windows Phone.

    • by SuperKendall (25149) on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @05:06PM (#42731275)

      I was at a developer conference and went to a BB10 presentation.

      The thing that impressed me is the focus on being really good at what Blackberry always did well, just revamped for a modern age.

      For instance they had a really nice way to "peek" at what was going on. And email was always just a motion away, it was still core to the system just as it has been in older blackberry devices.

      Also Blackberry realized that lots of people love blackberries because of the typing. Blackberry 10 has the best virtual keyboard I have seen for typing and completion.

      BB10 is also really agnostic as to how you develop software for it, as noted Android ports are simple and they have other paths as well.

      Before I saw it in action I thought they were toast. Now, like you, I think it has a real chance. Like you, I like the odds for its success even more than WP8 now.

      • Blackberry 10 has the best virtual keyboard I have seen for typing and completion.

        Hells yeah! I'd pay real money to have that on my Nexus 7 or on my phone. Fucking LOVE IT!

    • by asmkm22 (1902712)

      I really want to get back to using a Blackberry. From what I understand, however, they aren't including a physical keyboard device with the launch lineup, instead releasing one down the road. That's a pretty big mistake.

      • From what I understand, however, they aren't including a physical keyboard

        You are misinformed: google for BlackBerry X10

        This is beside the fact that BB10 has the best touchscreen keyboard of any phone/OS in existence.

        • by asmkm22 (1902712)

          Everything I've read on the x10, including reports today, all pretty much say the same thing: it probably isn't going to launch with the Z10, but no one knows for sure. Since the x10 hasn't even been seen by developers and the SDK for it isn't available, I'm having a hard time believe it's anywhere near release.

  • They need to pitch it to CIOs as they will be the ones placing the orders.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @04:07PM (#42730543)

    One of the big features is having multiple profiles on the BB10 phones, so you can have a Home profile as well as a Business profile, each with it's own apps and data that you can switch on the fly. When you leave a company, the business profile is wiped and you can continue using the device.

    Demoed one of the employee's units some time ago, it was pretty cool. Definitely geared for business users, but it's the only modern smartphone I've seen with this functionality.

    • One of the big features is having multiple profiles on the BB10 phones, so you can have a Home profile as well as a Business profile, each with it's own apps and data that you can switch on the fly. When you leave a company, the business profile is wiped and you can continue using the device.

      Demoed one of the employee's units some time ago, it was pretty cool. Definitely geared for business users, but it's the only modern smartphone I've seen with this functionality.

      I guess you don't work for a company that requires disabling of cameras? Removing the Business profile would probably not enable the camera requiring a complete wipe of the device to restore functionality.

      I would much rather not carry a company phone but if given the choice, I would rather keep my personal phone personal and my company phone as a separate device.

      • by brunes69 (86786)

        They don't even need to do that. They can push down a profile that disables the camera based on cell location, so there is no need for any of this.

    • by Kjella (173770)

      That does sound interesting for corporations that want to entice their employees into carrying a corporate device at all times because it doubles well as their private phone, but I don't get the BYOD angle. I don't care one whiff about the business capabilities of my private phone, either the company offers mobile connectivity on it or they can give me a business - and business only - phone at their expense. I don't ever see me buying a BB phone because they like the separate profiles and other "geared for

  • Microsoft? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by mvar (1386987)
    no other first-generation smartphone leader has been able to pull off this kind of rebirth. Palm and Symbian are dead and Microsoft is struggling

    So the crap-failure that was Windows CE managed to make Microsoft a "smartphone leader" and on top of that they are now struggling for a rebirth?!?
  • Wrong approach (Score:3, Insightful)

    by grasshoppa (657393) <skennedy@nOspaM.tpno-co.org> on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @04:11PM (#42730587) Homepage

    I maintain that they should be focusing on mobile security and management software, and should have been for the past several years.

    Even as recently as last year, RIM had a reputation for security mobile data devices. The problem was, nobody wanted those devices. So instead of spending the fortune on building a new handset/OS, they should have spent time and money developing a decent mobile management server, with associated mobile clients for android, iphone and MS kit ( with plugins for the various data sources; exchange, groupwise, ect... ).

    They could have parleyed their reputation on to the entire mobile market for business handhelds, instead of floating a NEW hand held in an already contentious market.

    • That doesn't make sense to me. You can't secure an OS with a client. Is everything supposed to be sandboxed & contained within the client? There will still be host security concerns and apart from that the experience would suffer heavily. And people would pay for that?
      • With the clout RIM has? They could have worked with the vendors to get their kit built in as part of the OS, sandboxed and all.

        Look at it like this: It would have created a "business" class of devices, that came "Ready for the Enterprise" because of the extended functionality.

        Android and iphone don't really have anything in this arena, even now, so I would expect that this would have gone over very well.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by EvilDroid (705289)

      Wow, you really did your homework! Except they actually did exactly what you claim they should have done. (well, except for the MS part)

      http://www.technewsworld.com/story/77152.html [technewsworld.com]

    • So instead of spending the fortune on building a new handset/OS, they should have spent time and money developing a decent mobile management server, with associated mobile clients for android, iphone and MS kit ( with plugins for the various data sources; exchange, groupwise, ect... ).

      They could have parleyed their reputation on to the entire mobile market for business handhelds, instead of floating a NEW hand held in an already contentious market.

      They did [blackberry.com].

    • by narcc (412956)

      I maintain that they should be focusing on mobile security and management software, and should have been for the past several years.

      It's a good think that they've been doing just that. As always they offer the best and most comprehensive MDM solution on the market and (obviously) they're still light-years ahead of the competition when it comes to mobile security.

      They could have parleyed their reputation on to the entire mobile market for business handhelds, instead of floating a NEW hand held in an already contentious market.

      Yeah, it's a shame they didn't introduce innovative (and unrivaled) features like Balance or expand their MDM tools to cover other platforms in addition to BBOS and BB10. (Oh, wait, they did!)

  • If it doesn't come with a fully functional Facebook, Twitter, Evernote, Angry Birds etc then it is virtually dead. Not barely working apps but fully working apps that are equal to their iOS / Android counterparts. BB already has great email support but they will need to have good Google Calendar sync, etc as well.

    If the apps work ... and the right apps are there ... then it won't be as hard as most people think. Outside the geek/techno realm people care few shits about the OS. It is all about the app ecosys

    • by vlm (69642)

      they just want their core apps to work excellently and their phone to be secure.

      They have no way to evaluate the latter, and for the former they'd buy an iphone.

    • by narcc (412956)

      If it doesn't come with a fully functional Facebook, Twitter, Evernote, Angry Birds etc then it is virtually dead. Not barely working apps but fully working apps that are equal to their iOS / Android counterparts

      Wow, it's a good that that BB10 will have all of that. You've got all of that on the PlayBook now. (one exception: no official twitter app. You can run the Android version on the PlayBook though).

      As for quality, hell, the Facebook app on older BlackBerry phones kicks the shit out of the ridiculously poor iOS and Android versions. (Seriously, look it up.)

      Research, it's easy.

  • by 93 Escort Wagon (326346) on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @04:34PM (#42730853)

    The idea of pitching from the top down was always the Microsoft approach - and it no longer works. iOS and Android have succeeded despite not having any official sanction - it was exactly the opposite approach. The rank and file bought these devices themselves, and pretty much refused to cow-tow to the company line because their personal devices already did what they needed, even in the workplace.

    Blackberry's time has come and gone. The end game has already been played. They should just part out the remaining assets and give the money back to the shareholders.

  • our wrist Blackberry now comes with a full-sized 101-key keyboard with trackpad. Nobody else can make that claim.

  • everybody gets lots of gifts on Ground Hog's Day and Presidents' Day, right?
  • The pitch for RIM (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Animats (122034) on Tuesday January 29, 2013 @05:04PM (#42731263) Homepage

    "Many of you have an Apple iPhone. Some of you have Google Android phones. Some of you use Microsoft's Skype service.

    Apple can monitor the location of your iPhone from their control center. They can turn your phone off. They can put software on it. Apple has the keys to your iPhone.

    With Google Android devices, Google has the keys to your phone. Google can change what's on your phone. With Skype, all your calls go through Microsoft, and Microsoft won't say who's listening in.

    With RIM, you are in control. The server that controls your devices is in your data center, under your control. We at RIM have no control over your devices. You have the keys, and you set the keys. We have no way to get into your phone. We can't listen in, nor can we let a government listen in.

    Do you want to give out the keys to your company? It's your choice.

    Thank you."

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by MrEdofCourse (2670081)

      " Apple can monitor the location of your iPhone from their control center. They can turn your phone off. They can put software on it. Apple has the keys to your iPhone. "

      That's not entirely true. You can deploy iPhones for your enterprise:
      http://www.apple.com/iphone/business/it-center/ [apple.com]

      I don't know enough about Android, but I thought the same type of thing was possible, that is, it's possible to have an Android phone that has no connection to Google or Google services whatsoever. Someone correct me if I'm

    • Rim has the keys to your encrypted email. Any phone can be monitored for location if it has a GPS chip and uses A-GPS by any carrier.
    • With RIM, you are in control. The server that controls your devices is in your data center, under your control. We at RIM have no control over your devices. You have the keys, and you set the keys. We have no way to get into your phone. We can't listen in, nor can we let a government listen in.

      Apparently, the French government [zone-h.org] and half of the European countries do not believe this statement. They seem to be under the impression that RIM is an intricate part of the US-UK-Australian-Canadian Echelon program.

      Also, you should note this article:

      If you’re a BES user, your IT department has the option of encrypting the body — not the the PIN — of your PIN-to-PIN BBM messages with a key unique to the company. By default, however, BBM messages are not encrypted because it restricts PIN-to-PIN BBM communication to only employees of the company, instead, they are scrambled. Scrambling is done with a universal cryptographic key that every BlackBerry has.

      [...]

      RIM can provide this universal key to governments to unscramble messages even in a BES environment — if no additional encryption is applied.
      [source] [memeburn.com]

      So not only, by default your message is not encrypted by your IT department like you think it might be, thus providing you a false sense of security, but because RIM insists on having a centralized BBM communication network (even in this internet age). It doesn

  • Daily more personal experiences in security lapses, intrusions, phishes, and ID theft occur. RIM own that category. Blackberry will gain converts-in-refuge happy to exchange ' street cred' iPhones and Androids for tablets and just a secure phone for essential communications.

    Bi-furcation and up market growth will sort out the phones and tabs.

  • My phone/computer is primarily a work tool. I don't play Angry Birds. I don't watch videos much. I do e-mail, and texts, and use the web and web-enabled apps.

    Android Jellybean feels more like it's designed for fun and games than real information handling.

    If Blackberry feels like a nuts and bolts tool instead of an underpowered media/game box, I'll be all over it.

    (FWIW, I think that this is where BB really screwed themselves - trying to sell to teenagers instead of focussing on their core demograp
  • RIM should provide BES level of remote management and monitoring for family plans so parents can monitor their children's use of the phone, such as thumbnail images of photos taken and video streams sent, control over which apps can be used, etc.

    then make sure there are plenty of games for it

    if RIM can position a model or two as family smart phones with parent controlled content filter etc. they can a) make a ton of money selling them to soccer moms b) get young kids used to BB OS s

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