Microsoft Surface Struggles to Ship A Million Units 375
zacharye writes "While some see potential in Microsoft's Surface tablet, most industry watchers appear to have written off the device at this point. Orders were reportedly cut in half following a slow launch, and Microsoft's debut slate has been hammered time and time again by reviewers and analysts. The latest to pile on is Boston-based brokerage firm Detwiler Fenton, which estimates that when all is said and done, Microsoft will have sold fewer than 1 million Surface tablets in the slate's debut quarter."
Still better than 25,000.
failure round 2 incoming (Score:5, Insightful)
With the surface pro's battery life at an estimated 4 hours. We can expect that to fail as well.
Re:failure round 2 incoming (Score:5, Insightful)
The bigger problem with pro is that it's 900 fucking dollars to start with!
Re:failure round 2 incoming (Score:5, Funny)
Re:failure round 2 incoming (Score:5, Funny)
I would have thought Microsoft had recovered all the expense of developing the BSOD by now.
Re:failure round 2 incoming (Score:5, Funny)
That isn't sarcasm (Score:5, Insightful)
You have obviously not used Windows lately, or any other Microsoft product if you say such abjectly ignorant things. You may laugh, but those of us who have to support Microsoft products know the truth, and how wrong you are. Microsoft-level quality products are indeed expensive, and for good reason too, do you have any idea how much it costs to support this crap? How hard it is to keep up and running? Clean it up after the latest security breach? Preventing breaches is a fools errand, give it up.
All this costs money, lots and lots of money. Initial purchase price may be low compared to everything but FOSS, but that is only the beginning. If you calculate TCO, you will see exactly how expensive this poorly coded pile of outdated security holes really is. It ain't cheap.
-Charlie
[Yes, this may look like sarcasm, but sadly it is not]
Re:That isn't sarcasm (Score:5, Insightful)
Poorly coded crap? Most code off GitHub beats WCF and other Microsoft-branded abominations like it any day.
Four or five years ago I would have agreed with you, but Microsoft turned a corner after Vista, Win 7 is hands down the best end-user desktop operating system I have ever used, and I know dozens of professional geeks who agree.
That said, I'm glad that there's so much competition right now, it forces everyone to improve. When I look at operating systems and the commercial market I'm always trying to think five to ten years down the road. Not at what comes next, but what comes after that. Given the rate of change in OSX, IOS, Win7, Win8, Gnome (in all its versions and varants) and KDE (Plasma looks sexy...) and the metoric rise of handheld and tablet computing I'm actually pretty excited about what computers will look like in five to ten years.
Re:failure round 2 incoming (Score:4, Insightful)
That only works if you write in specific languages using specific compilers.
There is a boat load of software out there that does not conform, and many compilers don't have runtimes for ARM.
Further, the API calls are NOT all the same.
So don't believe all the advertising mumbo-jumbo.
Re:failure round 2 incoming (Score:5, Informative)
This. I was at a MS event on the Win 8 developers track and the presenter discussed this at how it is basically to maintain one code base between Windows 8 (Desktop/x86) and WinRT for Surface and Phone. I expect there to be some differences like I don't expect the desktop to have a GPS built in like on a phone, but the differences in the API go beyond that like trying to access the media API for sound between the two are different. I sat there at the presentation basically shaking my head thinking "WTF?".
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Yeah, source code might be portable.
If you use their their compiler.
If you only use their development tools.
If you only use their programming language.
But the world is bigger than that.
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"For corporate users, doctors offices, plant floor, I think you will be surprised. There is more software written for x86 Wintel than all other platforms put together."
And how much of it is written to be aware of the new UI? And if you have to port your stuff to use that abortion of a GUI, why would you NOT go to an iThingy or Android? Last time I checked, most doctors, corporate users, coffee shop poseurs etc, had iSomethings, not Windows. Think TAM, not sales pitches when you develop your platform strateg
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If you can't use apps with fingers... They will die.
THAT is the reason Windows Tablets never caught on for almost 10 YEARS of trying. My doctor office tried giving everybody tablets... It lasted till they all broke, then they went back to laptops on carts.... Why? Because there is no VALUE bolting a pen stylus to a desktop app. Especially for a 50% cost increase.
Lack of software support is a FEATURE that forces people to rethink how the software is used every day. After 20 years of mouse and keyboard, isn't
Re:failure round 2 incoming (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly. Not tablet versions, but iPad versions. Not versions to run an an overpriced tablet with poor battery life, but versions to run on the tablets they probably already own (iPad)
Most of those applications are now accessed through a browser, or apps that already exist in the IOS/Android world so Surface Pro has nothing extra to offer over any other type of tablet.
Re:failure round 2 incoming (Score:5, Insightful)
If they buy two of the Surface Pros then they will even have enough battery life for a standard workday (barely). That's bound to be good for Surface sales.
The reason that people are asking for iPad versions of software is that they have reached the tipping point where they use their iPad more than any other device. Instead of using the iPad for just a few things they now use it for *most* things, and they really want to be rid of Windows forever. A tablet version of Windows doesn't really help them, especially a tablet version of Windows that is missing most of the new tablet applications that they actually use now.
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So will you next month when the x86 wintel Surface is released.
Here's an idea, visit Microsoft.com someday.
The actual reason (Score:4, Insightful)
Also we're at the verge of a netbook-caliber tablet crash where everyone realizes they all suck and stop buying them. They're too fragile, they don't have a DVD drive, they're harder to type on, the screen is tiny, they get dirty with fingerprints, they don't run 99% of software ever written, everything they do on it is designed to cost money, the browsers don't display pages correctly, the battery life is a lie, most don't have USB flash drive capabilities, they don't work with the majority of printers, and it's difficult to do meaningful work on them in any way shape or form. That's actually slightly more cons than netbooks and they went from boom to flop in approximately 2 years.
Re:The actual reason (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the actual biggest reason for this is people who wanted a tablet already got a different product from Samsung or Motorola or Apple and they're not going to spend all that money again just to switch. MS came into the game WAY too late.
Also we're at the verge of a netbook-caliber tablet crash where everyone realizes they all suck and stop buying them. They're too fragile, they don't have a DVD drive, they're harder to type on, the screen is tiny, they get dirty with fingerprints, they don't run 99% of software ever written, everything they do on it is designed to cost money, the browsers don't display pages correctly, the battery life is a lie, most don't have USB flash drive capabilities, they don't work with the majority of printers, and it's difficult to do meaningful work on them in any way shape or form. That's actually slightly more cons than netbooks and they went from boom to flop in approximately 2 years.
Your post mostly makes sense (especially the frustration of being in an ecosystem where the tablet purchaser is merely a commodity whose eyeballs will be sold to the highest bidder)... what the fuck is a DVD drive? I remember old, slow, failure prone round plasticky things but the last time i had a need for one in ANY computing related task was probably more than 5 years ago... Are you talking about that?
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Your post mostly makes sense (especially the frustration of being in an ecosystem where the tablet purchaser is merely a commodity whose eyeballs will be sold to the highest bidder)... what the fuck is a DVD drive? I remember old, slow, failure prone round plasticky things but the last time i had a need for one in ANY computing related task was probably more than 5 years ago... Are you talking about that?
I have a DVD drive in my year-old Lenovo. I hate it everytime I startup the computer and am reminded of a device I have yet to use, and will probably never use (this is a work laptop - everything is pre-installed or downloaded - My home macbook has AppStore or downloaded everything as well). I hate it every time I accidentally push the "eject" button while putting it in my backpack. I just hate it taking up space and reminding me of 90's technology that no longer serves a useful purpose (DVDs? If you're
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Re:The actual reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Many here would say BitTorrent. Some here will say "digital copy". And a few others will say "my server does that for me".
I don't need an optical drive on ALL of my machines....just one of them.....or an external drive that can be moved around as needed. (The Surface supports regular USB devices -- just like your laptop.)
Re:The actual reason (Score:4, Informative)
There's still a lot of film/TV stuff that's available on DVD but not via online streaming, at least legally.
Re:The actual reason (Score:5, Interesting)
I think that a majority of the Surfaces sold so far are developers looking for a reference system.
not on anybody's christmas list (Score:5, Funny)
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I think that a majority of the Surfaces sold so far are developers looking for a reference system.
Or they don't read reviews. There are a staggering number of people who make completely uninformed purchases.
Probably well meaning parents getting their kid or college student on in the hopes they will find a use for it (door stop, hold up plant, coaster, etc.)
Some people will buy anything as a toy to tinker with.
And then there's probably a few who genuinely want one because they think it will be an easy switch from their laptop.
Considering the price, I don't even pay attention to it because I can build a
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Maybe everyone is holding out for the Surface Pro?
Re:The actual reason (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm surprised, I actually assumed there would be at LEAST a million Microsoft fanboys who would buy one. I don't mean that in a derogatory way, there's Apple and Android fanboys too. I just thought the Microsoft faithful alone would push it well beyond the 1m mark. And I supposed it might still, given a little more time.
Maybe everyone is holding out for the Surface Pro?
I think the Microsoft Fanboy is a dying breed. Not simply because they've been burned a time or two, but because Microsoft is so incredibly late to this dance there's only so many wallflowers who haven't accepted iPad or Android in the interim and are now rather unwilling to jump ship for an unknown.
Microsoft really needed to come out with a strong contender, but it's overpriced, new interface/behavior and then the boot dropped when the battery life of the Pro became its Achilles' heel.
Ballmer must be done throwing chairs and is now moving on to throwing engineers around his office.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The actual reason (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree. Tablets fit with the changed computer behaviour.
Computers and laptops are made for a desk and for work. But when I come home from work, i don't want to work anymore. I want to use my computer as entertainment (facebook, newssites, youtube, ...). Also, I don't want to sit at a desk but comfortably on a couch.
My laptop/netbook is not ergonomic to use on the couch, and my phone is too small. So i use a tablet.
Tablets are here to stay. And they will become the remote (or hub or whatever) for your tv.
Re:The actual reason (Score:4, Funny)
they dont pretend to be a full computer. People who buy them know this isnt a computer replacement for real work,
BS just look at all the hipster photographers trying to justify using their iPads as some sort of computer like image work flow tool and storage machine, meanwhile buying extra sd cards for dirt cheap gives you 100x more storage capacity then some 64gb tablet.
The real reason why netbooks cratered (Score:5, Interesting)
Why would anyone buy a crippled netbook for $250-$300 over a cheap laptop with a real version of Windows, optical drive, multicore processor for $300 - $350? The weight and battery life weren't worth the drawbacks for $50. I was shopping for a netbook for my daughter to take to school during this time and opted to get a laptop instead.
Microsoft disrupted the natural market with their license demands in an attempt to kill Linux on netbooks. Unfortunately for them, the iPad shifted the market for low power computing out of their sphere of influence.
Re:The actual reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny, aside from your incorrect assessment about webpage rendering (at least on the tablets I have tried), I don't want any of those things on a tablet. That's why I have a laptop.
When I'm taking transit (plane or bus) or sitting on the couch and I don't want to pull out my laptop, I don't see any problem with these genre of devices at all.
Apparently you're not the target market and that is just fine.
Re:The actual reason (Score:4, Interesting)
They're too fragile, they don't have a DVD drive, they're harder to type on, the screen is tiny, they get dirty with fingerprints, they don't run 99% of software ever written, everything they do on it is designed to cost money, the browsers don't display pages correctly, the battery life is a lie, most don't have USB flash drive capabilities, they don't work with the majority of printers, and it's difficult to do meaningful work on them in any way shape or form.
Ironically, Windows tablets did all of this and more before the iPad was introduced. I still think the reason they sold so poorly is that they cost so much and sacrificed too much performance for the touch screen. My Latitude XT retailed for over $2000 for a base model in 2008. Today's tablet PCs are a whole different breed: they don't cost much more than a regular laptop, they're just as powerful, and Windows 8 has many touch friendly features to make using them as a tablet enjoyable. This time around, it looks like Microsoft is seeing more demand [neowin.net] for them as well.
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Re:The actual reason (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you're looking at this through the lens of being focused on doing 'meaningful' work -- the vast majority of people using tablets are using them for passive entertainment and the like.
I type a few emails on my tablet, not extensive word processing, spreadsheets, or writing code. I watch digital copies of movies that I get when I buy the Blu Ray. I don't care about 99% of the software ever written. I've never had to spend money on stuff, I just don't bother. I easily get my 10 hours of battery life as advertised. And I've never found myself needing either a USB flash drive or to print from it. These just aren't things I do with that device -- I have access to lots of other computers for that stuff.
It's a device I'm more likely to use from an easy chair, the sofa, a lawn chair, an airplane, or occasionally even a hammock. It's entertainment, with some decent connectivity for when I'm on the road. it's en eBook reader, a video game, and can get me some useful information if I can get to wifi, which is pretty easy. And, I can use Google Voice to call the wife instead of paying hotel rates for long distance. It also gets used for those quick google searches in the living room you'd otherwise not bother getting up to do.
I would argue that you can basically say smart phones are essentially useless for all of the identical reasons you list (and I'd be just as wrong as you), and I bet you have a smart phone. They have all of the same limitations you cite, and yet people have smart phones everywhere you look. I refuse to pay the data plan for a smart phone, so a tablet with wifi is a better fit for me. A smart phone and a tablet are essentially the same thing with a slightly different size.
There is no universal way to decide the utility of a device, and different people do different things. It may be true that a tablet doesn't cover your needs, but you need to understand that your needs are probably not typical.
I've had a tablet for about 2.5 years now, and I get a lot of use out of it. I don't use it to do my job or any serious work, but for all of those other little things, it's a convenient device with a more suitable form factor.
The vast majority of people when using computers much of the time are NOT doing 'meaningful' work -- they're surfing the web, watching You Tube videos, sending a few emails, and playing games.
Seriously, stop making categorical statements as if they were facts instead of just your opinion .. because I can say quite firmly that for me, my tablet doesn't suck, and was money well spent on a device I actually use. Just as I'm sure you can equally say that, for you, it's not a device you'd find a good fit for your needs. Neither is anything other than a subjective evaluation.
I've taken my iPad on about 12 trips by now, and about 8-10 of those I also had my laptop. My laptop sits in the bag in case I need access to something, and has been used exactly once while on the road over the last two years. But my iPad sees 2-4 hours/day of use when I travel.
So, maybe you need to recognize the fact that for many of the people who have bought tablets, it is a better fit than a netbook or a full laptop would be.
Re:The actual reason (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you're impressively wrong:
1- Netbooks were made to stagnate by Intel and MS. Buyers never had any reason to upgrade, or rather, update, so once everyone vaguely interested got one, the market just died. I'm still happily using my Compaq Mini from 3-4 yrs ago, what's on sale right now isn't significantly better. Now, if I could get more RAM, a bigger screen, an i3... I'd probably upgrade. But MS and Intel have decided I shouldn't be able to.
2- On the contrary, tablets are evolving incredibly fast. I'm on my 4th tablet in 2 years, and actually just sold it to upgrade. And I think I'll stay on the upgrade treadmill for a while, which, coincidentally, let's my "handee-downs" get on it, too.
3- What matters is not that 99.999% of software ever written doesn't run: it's that 90% of the software you actually need does. I can do emails, RSS/Greader, Web, ebooks, video, music, kill-the-time games, even some Google Docs in a pinch. Sure, everyone is missing some apps. But not that many.
4- You can get a keyboard, a mouse, SD cards and even USB sticks in most cases. What's your gripe ?
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Re:The actual reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Realistically, anybody in the tablet market for something by Samsung or most of the other Android makers isn't in the market for a Surface due to price. The Surface is priced at the top of the market and totally ignores the rest of it. Most Android tablets are not priced at the top of the market.
You can get a Nexus 7 for what, half of what a Surface RT costs? Realistically the target Surface market in terms of pricing is also the target iPad market, and taking on the iPad with a product tied in consumers minds to the less than stellar reviews of Windows 8 isn't exactly an easy task. It's no wonder they're getting smoked.
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I think the actual biggest reason for this is people who wanted a tablet already got a different product from Samsung or Motorola or Apple and they're not going to spend all that money again just to switch. MS came into the game WAY too late.
Also we're at the verge of a netbook-caliber tablet crash where everyone realizes they all suck and stop buying them. They're too fragile, they don't have a DVD drive, they're harder to type on, the screen is tiny, they get dirty with fingerprints, they don't run 99% of software ever written, everything they do on it is designed to cost money, the browsers don't display pages correctly, the battery life is a lie, most don't have USB flash drive capabilities, they don't work with the majority of printers, and it's difficult to do meaningful work on them in any way shape or form. That's actually slightly more cons than netbooks and they went from boom to flop in approximately 2 years.
Nah that's untrue, Mac's have the same issues.
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The Netbook market went from boom to flop because CPU manufactures didn't want to cannibalize their normal market and pulled production back, and the OS vendors didn't want to supply something light weight enough to be run on it. End the end to get something netbookish, that was current you where back to the cost of a low end laptop, so why bother? yes it went flop, but it wasn't because the consumers realized it didn't do what it wanted, but rather the suppliers realized people wanted it more than the hi
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Don't forget that there are other makers of quality Windows RT tablets as well. I demo'd the Surface in Boston, was relatively impressed, and then saw the Asus VivoTab RT -- generally has the same specs, good battery life, and comes with a *free* keyboard dock that not only turns it into a laptop with proper tactile feedback on the keys, but adds another 8 hours to the battery life. All for the price of a Surface sans any accessories. Not a hard choice to make.
Apple's got it nailed because they're not co
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I think the actual biggest reason for this is people who wanted a tablet already got a different product from Samsung or Motorola or Apple and they're not going to spend all that money again just to switch. MS came into the game WAY too late.
I agree. MS did enter the tablet arena late. But, if you remember, MS also entered the gaming console late as well. MS has the resources to stick with a product, even if it isn't initially successful. After all, look how they have stuck with the Windows Phone OS. MS isn't going to hold a fire sale any time soon. Besides, most people who are interested in a Windows tablet are holding out for the Pro version.
Also we're at the verge of a netbook-caliber tablet crash where everyone realizes they all suck and stop buying them. They're too fragile, they don't have a DVD drive, they're harder to type on, the screen is tiny, they get dirty with fingerprints, they don't run 99% of software ever written, everything they do on it is designed to cost money, the browsers don't display pages correctly, the battery life is a lie, most don't have USB flash drive capabilities, they don't work with the majority of printers, and it's difficult to do meaningful work on them in any way shape or form. That's actually slightly more cons than netbooks and they went from boom to flop in approximately 2 years.
I have to disagree with the though that tablets will suddenly become passe. What will happen is
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Yeah, they're on to another poorly selling product.
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Which explains the sales
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Try the local Best Buy. The store near me had one on display. By the looks of it you won't have to worry about them selling out ;-)
When I tried it out the Metro interface didn't seem bad at all. It's pretty responsive.
Raspberry Pi (Score:5, Interesting)
Sounds like the a tiny, caseless computer for hackers and wannabe hackers designed mostly by volunteers is going to outsell a flagship product from one of the most powerful companies in the world.
Film at 11 ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft has no clue what users actually want, film at 11.
When is Microsoft going to learn to make a truly consumer-oriented device other than the XBox? Not with support for Office (that takes up most of your space apparently), not with support for Outlook, but to do the things people are using other tablets for.
Every time they release a product, the marketing is so heavily geared to Office/Outlook/Exchange I have to wonder if Microsoft is aware of the fact that loads of people use computers for things that don't involve their business applications.
If your marketing is focused on how I can do spreadsheets and connect to my corporate Exchange server, then you have no idea of what it is I'd be looking to use this kind of device for. Because I don't want either of those features.
It just always seems Microsoft is so focused on their business tools, that the result is too much focus on that. And it always seems like they launch a product after someone else has been successful with it, and then miss some of the attributes of the other product which make it successful in the first place.
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Sure worked well for RIM.
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Microsoft has no clue what users actually want, film at 11.
When is Microsoft going to learn to make a truly consumer-oriented device other than the XBox? Not with support for Office (that takes up most of your space apparently), not with support for Outlook, but to do the things people are using other tablets for.
Every time they release a product, the marketing is so heavily geared to Office/Outlook/Exchange I have to wonder if Microsoft is aware of the fact that loads of people use computers for things that don't involve their business applications.
If your marketing is focused on how I can do spreadsheets and connect to my corporate Exchange server, then you have no idea of what it is I'd be looking to use this kind of device for. Because I don't want either of those features.
It just always seems Microsoft is so focused on their business tools, that the result is too much focus on that. And it always seems like they launch a product after someone else has been successful with it, and then miss some of the attributes of the other product which make it successful in the first place.
If Microsoft wanted the surface to be successful, they would have put it in the hands of corporate purchasing and said "ban iPads from your wifi network, give these out, and your workers will be productive again!". They got the features right for what any enterprise would want it to do, they just don't get that consumers looking to blow $500 don't give a crap about productivity. their BOSS does.
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And what percentage of tablets have been purchased by consumers instead of companies? I'm betting it's a significant chunk, and probably the lion's share.
Microsoft really needs to understand the spreadsheets and Exchange aren't what most consumers are looking to do.
Those "I'm a PC I'm a Mac" ads had it pretty well nailed, it's
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Except that the iPad started making its way into the workplace when bosses saw their kids playing with them and said "I want one of those instead of that bulky PC."
this and win8 enough to get rid of balmer? (Score:4, Funny)
"mortally wounded" Microsoft (Score:2)
at this point it may not matter. microsoft may already be mortally wounded like Motorola was a couple of years ago.
I don't love Microsoft, its tools, its "solutions", its idiotic advertising, or Squirts Ballmer, but you need to evaluate reality more accurately.
Microsoft is a large, rich, powerful company with a MONOPOLY. They have a pinhead for a Chief Executive Orificer and they are having difficulty finding new successes in a difficult economic climate. They are not alone. BUT... It would take catastrophic global circumstances on a scale yet unseen to wound Microsoft mortally.
Re:"mortally wounded" Microsoft (Score:4, Insightful)
FUD (Score:5, Interesting)
As much as I'd love to bash on Microsoft for a while, I must say that there seems to be some FUD floating around here. You have reviewers generally praising the hardware and the OS while at the same time advising readers to stay away because of the struggling App ecosystem. Good luck attracting developers that way.
Seems to me that MS could drop the price to make it a loss-leader and watch them fly off the the shelves, if they wanted.
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at the same time advising readers to stay away because of the struggling App ecosystem. Good luck attracting developers that way.
The store is actually fairing very well. Since launch, the number of apps have doubled [windows.com] (at about 26,000 now) and is increasing at a rate of about 20% per week. Many apps have passed the million download mark. The previous link also explains that some apps have even crossed $25k in revenue, which shifts their takeaway from 60% to 80% of revenue for life. This is very attractive to developers. Further, it looks like already the Windows store is outperforming the OSX appstore [neowin.net], which has been open for two year
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That's what they did with the Xbox division nearly a decade ago, and the division is still years from paying back the investment.
Even Microsoft can't afford to float vast sums of money to buy market share forever, and what's more I doubt the investors will tolerate pissing billions away.
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The Xbox division started turning a profit. That is not the same thing as paying back the huge amounts of money thrown at it.
And let us never forget the ions thrown at MSN/Live/Bing
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As much as I'd love to bash on Microsoft for a while, I must say that there seems to be some FUD floating around here. You have reviewers generally praising the hardware and the OS while at the same time advising readers to stay away because of the struggling App ecosystem. Good luck attracting developers that way.
Seems to me that MS could drop the price to make it a loss-leader and watch them fly off the the shelves, if they wanted.
There's both FUD and just plain stupidity.
The Surface is available online -- where no one can touch it before buying -- and in about 30 Microsoft stores. Nowhere else. The bizarre thing is that anyone would've expected huge sales numbers. You basically have 30 places people can actually touch one before buying it. I'd also bet 99% of the people who will reply in this thread will have never laid a finger on one, either.
These posts are just as ignorant as the (exactly opposite of reality) "ZOMG Windows8 isn't
Side note... (Score:4, Interesting)
As a refugee from HP, I have to say that I derive immense joy from the "at least they did better than HP" comment in this story. EXCELLENT! (And yes, I'm hugely into schadenfreude.) Now, I just have to wait a bit before I hit "preview" because it seems that any post that comes before all others is somehow considered inherently suspect, and gets modded down. (I suspect that if Einstein had posted E=MC^2 that way, it would have been modded "Troll," even if it were directly applicable to the topic being discussed.)
But yes...it does seem like this is the Zune all over again. Late to compete against a mature product that defines a market space, and by most accounts inferior to that main competitor...only the Zune was actually price-competitive if I recall correctly. At least with Windows Mobile, they've had multiple products to unsuccesfully compete against over the years...Palm, then Blackberry, then the iPhone.
Okay, it's been 5 minutes...someone MUST have posted SOMETHING by now...(hits 'Preview')
Still enjoying my HP Touchpad (Score:2)
I picked up a firesale Touchpad. I use it pretty much every day. It still works fine, the wireless charger is awesome, and dual-booting Android on it gives access to a bunch of current apps.
It's not perfect, but for $100 it's been a really useful device.
The Problem (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The Problem (Score:4, Insightful)
I am one of the holdouts for the Pro but I did get my hands on the ARM version a few weeks ago at the only bloody MS Surface booth in Ontario. In the 5min I was holding it I managed to find everything I was looking for and didn't have any hiccups in responsiveness or performance. It is a shame that they are so late to the game but I don't think windows vista/7 would have worked as well in a tablet situation.
/not a shill, I just like MS hardware
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Most people are probably awaiting the Surface Pro,
BWAHAHAHAHA what a laugh!
if they are thinking of buying a surface at all
Oh. OK, I'll agree with that ;-)
This was to be expected (Score:2)
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Confusing the market (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that after so many years of backwards-compatible Windows versions they launched their first tablet device with a desktop environment that wouldn't run anything other than Office was a huge "wtf" to me. So now in the first few months of it's life Microsoft have polluted the Surface brand as the little tablet that couldn't. I thought the Pro might still stand a chance in the face of this until I read the 64Gb edition would cost $900 and have a 4hr battery life. Ultrabooks, despite being slightly larger, seem to be much more capable for the same price. I don't know what Microsoft was thinking. They p'd off their hardware partners to launch this?
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Ultrabooks, despite being slightly larger, seem to be much more capable for the same price. I don't know what Microsoft was thinking. They p'd off their hardware partners to launch this?
Emphasis added. Size and weight is a feature for people considering an ultrabook, much more so than performance (across the board, ultrabooks are relatively crappy performers). I can do plenty on 4hrs battery, and if worse comes to worse I can always recharge. For a larger ultrabook, there's nothing I can do to take away the size and weight.
Re: (Score:2)
moving parts? (Score:2)
Duh (Score:2)
No 4g wireless. Less space than a laptop. Lame.
In all seriousness, Microsoft is failing because they have been busy abandoning their core principles since Windows 7 was released. I'm fine with experimenting with new interfaces, but you have to leave options for people who are comfortable with your old UI paradigm or no one will bother to make the transition if you're not in the same yuppie fanboy market as Apple.
Here's my advice, Microsoft: release 8.1, offer a "classic" shell, and stop pretending to be som
Why is this a surprise? (Score:4, Interesting)
Beneficial for the desktop future? (Score:2)
RT/8/Pro (Score:2)
the commercial makes it look like a toy, imo (Score:2)
Okay, the commercial isn't helping matters, as far as I can tell.
While the tablet part looks great, the rest looks like a binder cover, and anyone that's every had a binder knows it doesn't stay nice and new looking very long.
and worse, look at the keyboard. While it maybe better then typing on a screen, it looks like a toy keyboard.
Then when the commercial is cutting out, you can see all the fingerprints on the surface of Surface, that there is the best use of Truth in a commercial. Because that is wha
Couldn't have anything to do with the price, eh? (Score:3)
Whatever dimwit argued that the Surface needed that "perception of value" should be fired, after being publicly humiliated and dressed like a duck while giving an apologetic speech on national TV. As a $249 loss leader distributed through Wal-Mart, it would have succeeded and at least gotten significant share while more expensive, un-lame versions with better displays, 4G, and so on. Microsoft can't compete on quality with Apple. What's left is either price, or a significant value add (e.g. free Verizon phone service for a year or free unlimited internet via some national hotspot company). Instead, they want.... more money. It's as if the effort was *intended* to fail.
Microsoft Marketing is a JOKE. (Score:2)
Underpowered, Overpriced, and lacking apps... (Score:2)
...not backwards compatible with even current gen applications for Windows. The built in version of office isn't really fully baked yet by Microsoft's own admission. Not really properly supported for enterprise use yet. Surface Pro which will suck too, but at least have some measure of backward compatiblity and enterprise support will launch soon.
I can't for the life of me understand why its struggling.
Microsoft blew this one hard.
Hate to say I told ya so.... (Score:2)
I called this one right when they came out....http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3285997&cid=42159587
For the life of me I can't see what the fascination is with all these tablets. I got a cheap-o Touchpad when the fire sale was underway and all I ever use it for is watching movies on the plane. Mainly because it's got better battery life than my laptop and I don't run the risk of the guy in front of me leaning back and crushing my screen. My smartphone does all the mobile online stuff I need to do.
I wa
Business Only with Consumer Spillover (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone looking at Microsoft mobile solutions as a consumer product is looking at them wrong. These toys are meant to keep Microsoft relevant in the mobile business space. Write once, run Microsoft. Businesses don't need to hire ancillary dev teams to write their ancillary mobile apps they can utilize in-house talent and existing code bases. Even LOBs are going to be able to spill over into the mobile space since they won't be shackled to orange shield implementations that scare the CSOs. If businesses adopt Microsoft mobiles the hope is that consumers--used to their work devices--will find the familiarity attractive enough to stick with the brand.
Time will tell if the strategy pays off. The ability to use C#/XAML and avoid the costs and penalties of HTML5/JavaScript is a very attractive proposition for businesses.
Not a Surprise (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I haven't read a bad review of it (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not the party line, citizen.
Actually; it seems to be pretty much the party line. Every time we get any discussion of the various Windows 8 components someone pipes up and says "have you tried it", "if you saw the real thing" etc. etc. Every analyst house has completely overestimated the success of Windows phone 7 and Windows 8 in every way. In the same time when Tommi Ahonen was able to give accurate Windows Phone market share forecasts [blogs.com]. Have a look at a almost any review; They say "it's great but the price is too high"
Look at the difference between an Android tablet priced for $300 and an Android for $600. One of them is a great value device with real compromises to bring it down to price and the other is a really great no questions device. You can't write a review which says "it's great but it's only worth half it's price". What you mean is "it's crap for the price and they should cut the price to a level where it's worth the money". The entire media is running scared of naming the pile of garbage that is Surface. Have a look at how carefully they never criticize the low resolution of surface; They always prefix with some Microsoft marketing statement; for example extreme tech writes:
etc. etc.
Try to find one of the mainstream reviews which mentions that the surfaces resolution, at 148 PPI, is worse than almost any modern tablet. As a point of reference; the iPad has 264 PPI, the Nexus 7 has 216 PPI and the iPad mini has 163 PPI. The Google Nexus 10 with a 300 PPI screen is a completely different league. With a screen like that the correct price for a Surface is in fact around $250. You would have to go back to the very original iPad screen to find an Apple product with a lower resolution screen. The same thing repeats with mention of the terrible user interface experience - always gently skipped over or we are told "you can get used to it fast". Again with the app store, almost every review completely ignores the quality of the apps ported from iOS.
Have a look on any site with "consumer reviews". You will probably find more positive reviews than there are people outside Microsoft with tablets, and any review which reads as if someone actually used the product will be voted down out of visibility.
I think that the great thing is that consumers have finally realised that there is a Microsoft party line; have realised that that line is everywhere and that they are choosing to ignore it.
Re:I haven't read a bad review of it (Score:5, Interesting)
Someone was complaining the other day about some of us pointing out the very obvious Microsoft shills, but there is quite obviously a very concerted effort by Microsoft to pump up their credibility and to diminish that of their competitors. It would be quite entertaining if someone were to expose it as they did with the FaceBook attempts.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, here's one bad review [thestranger.com]. Admittedly, it is 100% about the name of the tablet.
Re:I haven't read a bad review of it (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
GP said:
I've yet to see a complaint about the slate tablets
So he was specifically talking about bad reviews of Surface and friends, not bad reviews of Win8 in general. Of course, all Win8 tablets have touch, and Metro there makes perfect sense.
At the same time, there are plenty bad reviews of Surface (specifically) around. It's relatively heavy and bulky for what it is.
Re:I haven't read a bad review of it (Score:5, Insightful)
Who cares?
The only review that matters in the end is what the market thinks. The market doesn't seem to be buying. Saying "the professional reviewers liked it!" is loser talk.
Re:I haven't read a bad review of it (Score:5, Interesting)
You act like people gravitate toward superior products, as opposed to the product with superior marketing.
You seem to think there is a differentiation between the two. If an inferior product reaches critical market mass through superior marketing, that mass often makes it the superior choice.
Betamax was superior to VHS, but the players were multiples of cost and the content was lacking. Although Betamax was superior for the engineer, VHS was superior for the consumer.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
I've yet to see a complaint about the slate tablets, other than the app store for it not being matured.
While that may be true, I have also not seen any review that said the Microsoft tablet is superior to the iPad or Android offerings. The reviews usually sound like "the Surface is OK, but since there is no cost benefit, I'd get an iPad".
That is Microsoft's problem -- a me too product with no compelling advantage.
Re: (Score:3)
Surfance specifically though is expensive, and there's no obvious reason why you'd want it. Windows 8 is horrid. Everyone I know who has installed it has been desperate to get rid of it, 16 year old tech savvy kids, 16 year old technically inept kids, their 40 year old parents, computer scientists, IT people, physicists, fine arts grad, game, developers and designers.
Surface itself, the hardware, is probably OK, but it's worthless without a slate suited OS, and that isn't windows 7. So you have to spend
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Told (Score:5, Insightful)
for a site with highly libertarian users who are all about personal privacy and internet freedom, it's weird how often you see slashdotters ripping on anonymous users *only* because they're posting anonymously.
- ac, lol
Re: (Score:3)
Thankfully we're not all the same, and the "highly libertarian" types are a vocal extremist minority.
All AC means is that readers can't match up one statement from an AC from another. People never know if they are discussing with the same person, of different people. And that can be annoying.
It has nothing to do with keeping their personal privacy, because of course the majority of the people that post using an account use a pseudonym.
Re: (Score:3)
That's not a bad idea - I think I like it!
Of course, Microsoft would probably do all they could to hinder the release of drivers to make full use of the hardware on Linux, or Android.
Re:Fire Sale? (Score:5, Interesting)
I doubt they do it, for a few reasons:
* They're allegedly "all in" with the thing. They know that the Surface Pro (the one which can run 'actual' windows programs) won't sell much more than any other Windows tablet has since 2001, so if they're going to do tablets, the RT is pretty much it.
* They went out of their way to totally screw up the UI in Windows 8 just to accommodate tablets. They risked enterprise acceptance, long-time customer expectations, and more... just for tablets. This reinforces the first point, but also means that if they fail, it'll be a damned hard time explaining why they would eventually put the UI back (not marketing mind, but Ballmer's own political reasons, since he and the recently-departed Sinofsky put so much of their reputations into the damned thing.)
* They didn't sell the remaining Kin or Zune units at fire-sale prices, did they? (I'm honestly not 100% certain, but I believe they did not).
Finally, HP did it because they really weren't all that invested in the things - that is, HP didn't bet the company on a tablet paradigm. Microsoft however appears to be doing just that.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Actually there was a bit of a fire sale on the Kin.
The Kin ONE went from $50 to $30 after a month [informationweek.com]. The Kin TWO went from $100 to $50 at the same time. The devices where then discontinued shortly after.
Verizon then sent the remaining unsold units back to Microsoft. After a year, that same inventory of unsold devices emerged with a firmware update that turned them into feature phones, named the Kin ONEm [pcmag.com] and the Kin TWOm [pcmag.com].