Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

It Costs $450 In Marketing To Make Someone Buy a $49 Nokia Lumia

Comments Filter:
  • Subsidized price (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Google Fanboy (2685769) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @12:06AM (#40669291)
    Nokia Lumia does not cost $49 to customers. It costs (and makes profit of) $49 + whatever mobile operators make during the two year contract. God americans are stupid if they still go for this marketing trick. Even Slashdot runs bullshit story like this!!

    On top of that Nokia is trying to capture US market, so they can spend more on it while they generate revenue from rest of the world.
    • by AgNO3 (878843) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @12:11AM (#40669321) Homepage
      Stop using logic, reasoning, and a basic understanding of marketing to confuse the issue. This is slashdot.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      in europe we make it a sport not to buy any product that advertises too much, like nokia did in europe :D
      it doesn't work on us anymore.

      • Re:Subsidized price (Score:4, Interesting)

        by spiffmastercow (1001386) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @02:25AM (#40670027)

        in europe we make it a sport not to buy any product that advertises too much, like nokia did in europe :D it doesn't work on us anymore.

        Then what's with all the Heineken-only bars everywhere? I had to go kinda far out of the way to get a good beer when I was there (this was in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands)

        • by sFurbo (1361249)
          I only know the situation in Denmark, but here, Carlsberg gives quite a lot of equipment to new bars, on the condition that the bar only sell draught beer marketed by Carlsberg.
          • It's worse (Score:5, Interesting)

            by dutchwhizzman (817898) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @03:26AM (#40670283)
            Heineken and a few other breweries are the only ones that will give a loan to the owner of the bar, since bars and clubs are a high risk investment and most banks won't get involved. Because the breweries aren't banks, they don't have to hold themselves to a lot of regulations that forbid banks from controlling their loaners too much. This means that the breweries often end up owning the building after a previous business goes bankrupt and now most bars and clubs are effectively owned by the breweries. Once they figured out this method, they started to actively buy real estate that houses bars, restaurants and clubs. The real kicker is that those bars pay more for their beers than you and I pay for the same beers in the super market. The innkeepers have to pay rent, make a living and pay their staff, so variation is hard to find and prices are inflated due to the lack of competition this sort of practice brings. Add to that the high alcohol tax and it's no wonder that bars and clubs are such a high risk investment....
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by WoLpH (699064)

          I guess you really haven't gotten the point then.

          The Heineken logo (not sure what the point of the thing is) can be found on just about any bar. But 99% of them (at least in the Netherlands) will serve you a plethora of different beers. I personally haven't seen a bar/cafe where they sold Heineken only.

          The only thing the Heineken logo tells me is that there is _a_ bar at that location. I'm sure not drinking that stuff..

          • Not really. The bar will sell you any type, brand and taste of beer that the Heineken breweries produce, if they have it on stock. No beers by competing or microbreweries, since that is prohibited by their contract with Heineken. Not only that, but they have to buy the beer from Heineken themselves at the price that Heineken quotes them. Even if they can buy it cheaper in the super market (which is usually the case) they still have to pay the premium price Heineken demands.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by vrt3 (62368)

          Heineken in bars in Belgium, let alone Heineken-only bars? Where was that?
          In Belgium, bars serve beer. That means no Heineken.

    • Re:Subsidized price (Score:4, Interesting)

      by fullback (968784) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @12:17AM (#40669359)

      Unfortunately, the stupidity actually is real, painful, intense and relentless. It's boundless, infinite and beyond the realm of understanding. It burns.

    • Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @12:33AM (#40669485)
      Er, would it make you feel any better if the summary said it costs 450 dollars to make people pay the upfront cost of $49 for a Nokia Lumia? The point still stands. Windows Phone 7 is a failure. People have been calling it since the beginning yet the fanboys kept saying wait 'til NoDo, wait 'til mango, wait 'til Nokia, wait 'til Lumia 900, blah blah blah. It failed. Accept it. And it failed for quite a few reasons. Here, I'll list them. All of them.

      OS LIMITATIONS

      1. No true multitasking for 3rd party apps - they re frozen in the background.

      2. No Divx/Xvid video codec support. Zune will convert with loss of quality.

      3. No mass storage mode.

      4. No micro-SD card support.

      5. Only support up to 16GB storage .

      6. No filemanager. Directory system is totally opaque.

      7. Need Zune to transfer files. Zune will only transfer photos, videos & music. All other files need to email/upload to yourself.

      8. Your contact details are automatically uploaded to cloud service whether you like it or not.

      9. Limited to 800x480 resolution.

      10. Voice search is hardwired to Bing.

      11. Cannot use any MP3 file as ringtone except those with strict constraints.

      12. Cannot set static IP address so no connection to ad-hoc networks.

      13. No VPN support for this âoecorporate enterpriseâ phone.

      14. Cannot sync directly with Outlook without syncing to Cloud

      15. Totally closed OS, cannot sideload apps outside MS Marketplace.

      16. System font size cannot be changed.

      17. Images and photos cannot be renamed in the phone.

      18. Windows Live ID account cannot change country once set.

      19. No centralized notification page.

      20. Alarm clock cannot work when phone is turned off. All Nokia Symbian and Meego phones can do this.

      21. The idle screen is completely blank and cannot display time or notifications.

      22. Only photos allowed as email attachments, documents not allowed.

      23. No way to stream audio to the majority of car audio systems as the most common Bluetooth rSAP profile is not implemented.

      24. Cannot stream audio from video playback to Bluetooth devices as A2DP profile is not implemented.

      25. No support for full on-device encryption required for secure applications like mobile banking and online payment.

      26. Cannot use Bluetooth keyboard (no HID profile)

      27. Cannot silence ringtone or alarm by flipping the phone.

      28. Very limited customization option.

      29. Cannot be upgraded to WP8 (Apollo)

      USABILITY ISSUES

      30. No always visible status bar for battery life, signal strength, carrier ID, 2G/3G wi-fi, Bluetooth on.

      31. Taskmanager has no option to shut down apps you donâ(TM)t want running in the background.

      32. Search and Back button cannot be de-activated in apps or games and easily touched by accident which interrupt your user experience.

      33. Lockscreen need to be activated to show missed call/sms notification.

      34. No way to close an app except pressing back button all the way to the first screen.

      35. Tiny fonts in messages is very hard to read for those over 45.

      36. Cannot create and save playlists on the phone.

      37. Playlist can only be edited when you are playing it.

      38. Cannot search your music collection on the phone, only in the Marketplace.

      39. Cannot close music player, can only pause. Music player on lockscreen will stay until you reboot. Be careful not to touch it in a meeting.

      40. No draggable progress bar for current track playing and no indication which track in an album is currently playing

      41. Cannot lock screen orientation.

      42. Online and phone contacts are mixed together with no ability to filter.

      43. Search button in dialer does not search contacts for dialing, but search call history.

      44. Cannot save draft sms messages.

      45. Call history only show phone number type. If a contact has multiple phone nos. fo

      • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @01:06AM (#40669667)

        122. If S60+M[ae]e[mG]o strategy was a "burning platform" ... This platform is RADIOACTIVE, ON FIRE, and EXPLODING, bitchez!

        Elop stood on the burning deck, whence all but he had fled.
        The flame that lit Nokia's wreck shone round him o'er the dead.

        Yet horrible and grim he stood, as born to rule the storm;
        A creature of demonic blood, a proud, though troll-like form.

        The flames rolled on – he would not go without his Ballmer's word;
        That Ballmer, in Redmond below, his voice no longer heard.

        He called aloud "Say, Ballmer, say if yet my task is done?"
        He knew not that the stock-price lay yet twice the buyout one.

        (Okay, that last line descended to junior-high love-poem level of suck; I'll quit before it gets worse.)
        Seriously, just how much farther can MS possibly need to ruin Nokia before they buy them out and give Elop his bonus?

      • Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Interesting)

        by UnknownSoldier (67820) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @01:49AM (#40669855)

        What's *really* weird is that the iPhone has some of those same limitations and yet it is wildly successful ...

        I wonder what the key differences are ?

        (I already have an idea, just curious what the /. crowd thinks...)

        • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @01:51AM (#40669867)
          IPhone has first mover advantage. Windows phone is a me-too product. Also, people don't like Metro.
        • by NixieBunny (859050) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @02:24AM (#40670025) Homepage
          Perhaps most of those limitations aren't really important to most people.
        • by grumbel (592662) <grumbel@gmx.de> on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @03:16AM (#40670233) Homepage

          What's *really* weird is that the iPhone has some of those same limitations and yet it is wildly successful ...

          The difference is that the iPhone got there first, so whatever problems remain, people learned to live with them. The whole trouble with the Windows Phone is that it's late to the party, so to actually be accepted it would need to be superior to the iPhone, not just on par, as just being on par won't make people switch. Why waste time learning a new phone OS when it has no advantage over the old one and still a lot of the same problems?

        • by Tridus (79566) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @06:01AM (#40671149) Homepage

          "Apple" is a positive brand. You attach it to something and the something gains percieved value.

          "Windows" and "Microsoft" are not positive brands. You attach "Windows" to something, and people immediately think of their home PC. That is not a good thing given how awful the average home PC is.

          There's also first mover advantage for the iPhone, things that people do care about like very high resolution displays & games, and Microsoft's well earned reputation for killing their media products on a whim (which they just did to all WP7 devices). But even if it was just as good as the iPhone they'd be facing an uphill battle simply due to the Windows name. Windows is a brand you tolerate, not one that inspires loyalty.

          • by jfruh (300774)

            "Windows" and "Microsoft" are not positive brands. You attach "Windows" to something, and people immediately think of their home PC. That is not a good thing given how awful the average home PC is.

            Notice that in Nokia's big first wave of ads for the Lumia (the "beta testing is over" ads with Chris Parnell, aka 30 Rock's Dr. Spaceman), nobody ever says the words "Microsoft" or "Windows".

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        This list is often posted and rated +5 instantly, but there are many items in here which are just flat out false or opinions. The rest are true of either iPhone or Android. Here is my list I've compiled.


        5. Only support up to 16GB storage (Dell Venue Pro comes in up to 32GB, you can put a 32GB uSD card in most of the HTC ones if you open them up, the Samsung Focus can reach 40 with an added 32GB card).
        8. Your contact details are automatically uploaded to cloud service whether you like it or not. (You don
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          You are either a class A shill or you don't even own a Windows Phone at all. Most of what you are saying is false is actually true and a lot of your other points are just making excuses for what the OP is criticising. That's weak sauce and if you actually give a shit about windows phone, maybe you should face the facts of its shortcomings instead of trying to lie your way through.

          Disclaimer: HD7 owner.

        • by oakgrove (845019) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @02:59AM (#40670177)
          That list has 121 items on it and you took issue with thirty of them. Assuming you are 100 percent right, that still leaves 75 percent of what the OP said on the table...
          • Like I said, after you take out the ones that are flat out false, you're left with things that will be added in Windows 8, things that don't exist in either Android or iPhone, you're not left with much on the table that isn't incredible nit-picky. You can take any platform and write a list of 100 things you don't like about it, especially when you get down to the function level (I can't access this feature from this menu and that makes me mad!) because at that point you're list has become very personal. Thi
            • by Tridus (79566) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @06:02AM (#40671157) Homepage

              Now if only stuff being added to Windows Phone 8 was in any way useful to people buying a Lumia today...

              Saying "it's fixed in 8" is totally meaningless when current phones can't be upgraded. Why would anybody in their right mind want to buy a Lumia right now knowing that? Microsoft threw the current lineup of phones under the bus on that one.

      • by ignavus (213578) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @09:29AM (#40672889)

        But apart from those 121 negative points, what did you think of it?

    • by whoever57 (658626)

      Nokia Lumia does not cost $49 to customers. It costs (and makes profit of) $49 + whatever mobile operators make during the two year contract. God americans are stupid if they still go for this marketing trick. Even Slashdot runs bullshit story like this!!

      You are still wrong. The costs are $450 (the advertising cost) plus the handset subsidy. AT&T pays more than $49 per handset to buy from Nokia.

    • by EzInKy (115248)

      I've not seen one reason yet to suggest to anyone that they buy a Windows OS phone over any other, but if I were so inclined what selling points would you suggest? And by the way, forget Nokia. They decided to bite the dust when they elected to get in bed with devil who wants to infect the lives of every being on the planet by requiring their software be used to do anything useful.

    • by GaratNW (978516)
      Exactly.

      In other news, random product that is way in the back spends lots of money on marketing to try and get notice pulled from the dominant product. What will they think of next?!
    • by mwvdlee (775178)

      Nokia Lumia does not cost $49 to customers. It costs (and makes profit of) $49 + whatever mobile operators make during the two year contract.

      Then again, TFA only talks about the costs and profits for Nokia, so what customers pay mobile operators is irrelevant in this case.

      On top of that Nokia is trying to capture US market, so they can spend more on it while they generate revenue from rest of the world.

      You assume Nokia is succesfull enough outside the US to cover these expenses. I live in the Netherlands and see iPhones, HTC's and Samsung Galaxy's all around me. Despite ads on TV every single hour of the day, I've never seen a Lumia used in real life. Obviously one sample isn't representative, but if they were to cover the 10:1 ratio in the US, you'd expect it would much more

    • The cheapest discount price online in Australia currently is around $AU469 for an unlocked Lumia 900. Or $10 a month on a $30 plan from Optus - for the equivalent of a $20 a month BYO phone plan.

      So the true cost of the phone to the consumer is in the same ball park as the $450!

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @12:14AM (#40669349)

    How about they give me $400 directly and then I'll pay the $49 for the Lumia.

    They've saved $50!

  • I Wish (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Zamphatta (1760346) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @12:18AM (#40669373) Homepage
    I wish a Nokia costed just $49 and nothing more.
    • by tokul (682258)

      I wish a Nokia costed just $49 and nothing more.

      They are working on it. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=NOK&t=5y&l=on&z=l&q=l&c= [yahoo.com]

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Mine did.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_C1-01 [wikipedia.org]

      No contract. SIM phone. Basically it's a really really good clock-radio, with a decent mp3 player, a useful electronic calendar etc etc etc, that just happens to include an okay phone too when I want to spend $10 for 30 days of Fido airtime.

      The camera's a bit of joke by modern standards, but it's actually good enough for 'make a note of that' shots.

      And yup... this is exactly the type of /excellent/ cheap phone that Nokia made their rep on so you'd buy Nokia w

  • ...why don't they sell handsets in an honest fashion that aren't tied to a specific carrier, so that we can buy a GSM phone if we like GSM networks, or a CDMA phone if we like CDMA networks, and then we buy our service?

    Oh, right, because they're both evil and stupid to think that we'll shop around for new providers...

    Just like we shop around for insurance?
  • by neurocutie (677249) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @12:21AM (#40669391)
    This sort of epic failure is hardly unique. For example, in the early days following the debut of the Apple iPhone, vendor and carriers tried to fight the success of the AT&T/Apple iphone. One of the first such iphone "killers", notable for its total failure, was the Samsung Instinct, released by Sprint. It was actually a dumb "featurephone", although in those days, the iphone was also not considered a smartphone.

    The low $199 price of the iphone really caught most carriers off guard -- the standard pricing for smartphones in those days was around $350 *with* contract. So the Instinct's original pricing of $179 had to be lowered to $129. Sprint HEAVILY marketed this thing, with many ads showing the "advantages" of the Instinct over the iphone. Hesse, CEO of Sprint, spent $100mil on marketing the Instinct.

    However the Instinct (or In-stink as its customers would come to call it), was really a terrible product -- terrible web browser, lame features, AND worse, required Sprint's brand new, and very pricey (for Sprint), data plans.

    Sprint refuses to release real sales numbers, but estimates by analysts were in the 350K range -- perhaps after a year it might have hit 500K. So that is at best $200 of MARKETING COSTS for each Instinct sold.

    Hesse would never again stink that much into marketing a phone. Indeed some blame that burn episode for Sprint's rather poor marketing of the Palm Pre, a much better device that never was really given a proper chance...

  • by mozumder (178398) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @12:23AM (#40669405)

    The iPhone worked because people could use it as an iPod, and it had the whole exclusive iTunes infrastructure behind it.

    Blackberry's killed it with their keyboard.

    Android didn't get popular until the Droid came out with their keyboard, giving it that differentiation from the iPhone, and that it was available outside of Cingular/AT&T.

    Windows phone doesn't really offer any exclusive hook that'll sell itself. It has a nice UI, but the other systems are pretty good and ultimately very usable.

    I suspect they'll have to tie in deeper with the upcoming Windows 8 infrastructure to get Windows Phone to sell. Or maybe XBox games. But right now it doesn't have that absolutely exclusive must-have killer app or selling point.

    It's really shame, because Windows phone is a perfectly fine system that just needs a critical mass to get going.

    • by EzInKy (115248)

      Here's an idea....how about making it impossible for Window's phones to restrict owners from running any software that they please? Since most manufacturers seem to be limiting their phones to the dictates of the carriers it would really make Window's phones stand out in the crowd!

    • by hkmwbz (531650) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @07:42AM (#40671883) Journal

      Android didn't get popular until the Droid came out with their keyboard, giving it that differentiation from the iPhone

      That doesn't even begin to make sense. The very first Android phone had a physical keyboard!

      So if you want to look for hooks, that most certainly is not it. I suspect there is none.

  • anyone with previous experience with older versions of Windows Mobile can tell you really it sucks compaired to iOS or Android. Nobody goes for a windows phone these days. Windows 8 for PC is coming out, and its interface is basically identical to the mobile phone version. Once people use Windows 8 (PC) for a couple years and are more used to the new desktop UI , the mobile phone platform will become alot more appealing to many people who want the familiarity of their PC on their phone. Nokia
    • by Zaelath (2588189)

      Man, I think you have that all backwards... they're relying on the popularity of the awesomeness of WinPho8 to sell Windows 8.

      • by detain (687995)
        No, they don't have to rely on anything to sell windows 8. It can suck outloud (think ME, Vista) and will still get picked up by all the big vendors, it will show up on a lot of new PCs, people will get forced into it at some point one way or another (work upgrades, using a friends computer, etc..). MS doesn't have to do anything at all to get Windows 8 for PC sold and showing up on a decent number of systems. Windows Mobile is where they don't have decades of experience and reputation that they can
    • Re:Too Soon (Score:4, Insightful)

      by mbkennel (97636) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @01:28AM (#40669765)

      "the mobile phone platform will become alot more appealing to many people who want the familiarity of their PC on their phone. "

      (remove shoe, bang on table)
      Nyet! Nyet! Nyet!

      That's one of the biggest problems with Microsoft.

      Average people's idea of Windows: something annoying they have to use at work or on their PC, DO NOT WANT.

      I had a Windows Mobile 5.x, and they obviously attempted to make it "look like" and sort of feel-like Windows XP. It was horrid. I got it for free from somebody who bought an early iPhone (2 or 3G?).

      Jobs understood the problem from the beginning. He did NOT shove the Mac interface on the iPhone. Why? Because he had the balls to say that something whose interface he personally contributed to or at least vetted would not be good on a handheld phone.

      Now Microsoft STILL fails to correctly learn the lesson, and after a major fail putting a craptastic XP on their phone, they are putting a phone interface and craptasticing Windows on the PC.

      I know what people will feel: DO NOT WANT.

      Microsoft should do something more radical, like not call their mobile phone operating system "Windows", and stop believing that there is any reason to have the same interface. Start by making something good, really good--and by the new name declare that the sublimation of everything to supporting the Great Windows Empire is now over. For this to happen, Ballmer needs to be fired first. Why is he still there?

    • Re:Too Soon (Score:5, Interesting)

      by SurfsUp (11523) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @01:49AM (#40669857)

      Nokia was a giant in the cell industry but has been slipping lately.

      Slipping? That's an understatement. Go check out the 1 year graph [google.com]. You can't even see today's price because it's lost under the markers at the bottom.

  • They should start turning a profit in about -22 years.

  • by EzInKy (115248) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @12:50AM (#40669579)

    Yeah, I know I'm just stupid open source open source hardware jerk but when asked, which is quite often, which phone to buy I always say avoid anything related to Microsoft. Now admittedly my personal anomosity goes way back to Gate's letter against hobbyists using his software without ponying up pennies to him. Still today though my advice to everyone is to not buy anything that requires you to pay monies past the original transaction.

    • Hate to say it, but Nokia was going to die anyway. They were in the lead in the race to the bottom for a long time before they realized the market wasn't even behind them anymore. Sure they have some nice devices--even some hacker-friendly ones--but none of them were ever going to be popular enough to save the company.

      Once upon a time, Nokia pivoted from being world leader in wood product sales to being a technology and communications leader. It's a pity they didn't see the black swan and pivot again
      • by EzInKy (115248)

        So they chose Microsoft because it had the sharper blade? Yeah, I know I'm just a market of one but I still search for deals on N900s so I can benefit from Nokia's best product for as long as I can. If they would have sold the N950 without restrictions I'd be buying them up too. So tell me, what Microsoft product do you have the same devotion for?

        • > If they would have sold the N950 without restrictions I'd be buying them up too.
          Bingo! As soon as products and services serve the manufacturer/carrier more than the customer the customer responds with: DO NOT WANT. The customer will put up with a little irritation but the big corps that are floundering badly (Nokia + Microsoft in this market space) are still too slow to grok this (the 'reality distortion field' around themselves blinds them to the market's actual desires).
      • by SurfsUp (11523)

        Hate to say it, but Nokia was going to die anyway.

        That's self serving spin from Microsoft trolls and has been debunked.

  • Nokia Lumina includes Windows Phone. It is implied to be version 1.0 since MS marketing did not mention which version is installed on the phone. If its not obvious, MS Marketing will tell you.

    From the headline, each version jump of Windows Phone seems to be worth $49 to the consumer.

    MS should release Windows Phone 9.183673469387755. You know they are going to.

    9.183673469387755 x $49 = $450.

    Assuming a fixed cost of marketing of $450 per phone per consumer for future releases, at MS Phone OS v 9.1836734693877

    • by EzInKy (115248)

      Microsoft isn't going to allow any version jumps that don't suck in profit for themelves, so it makes no sense at all for anyone to purchase a version of their software nearing end of support.

  • That's how much I took in before they got me to use Bing.

  • It costs $449 in hired goons to make someone buy a $49 Nokia Lumia.
  • Win 8 Phone? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Necroloth (1512791) on Tuesday July 17, 2012 @02:43AM (#40670115)
    I presumed the lack of volume is due to Win 8 phones coming out end of this year? The older win7 phones can't be upgraded to win8 due to hardware limitations ... they'll only get up to win7.8 update and the apps for win8 may not work with the older version. So with this in mind, why would you buy a win7 phone right now?
  • OpenWebOS may make things interesting again soon. Unfortunately, the initial focus is on tablets. The UI, Unobtrusive notifications, Gesture navigation, synergy, cards, stacked cards, tabbed cards are still far ahead and more elegant than the other mobile OS's.

A Fortran compiler is the hobgoblin of little minis.

Working...