It Costs $450 In Marketing To Make Someone Buy a $49 Nokia Lumia 363
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by
Soulskill
from the or-4.50-on-a-box-of-shells dept.
from the or-4.50-on-a-box-of-shells dept.
benfrog writes "According to market-share estimations compared to marketing dollars, it costs nearly ten times as much to sell the Windows Phone-based Nokia Lumia as it does to buy one. Other analysts agree with the low sales numbers."
Subsidized price (Score:5, Insightful)
On top of that Nokia is trying to capture US market, so they can spend more on it while they generate revenue from rest of the world.
Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Funny)
Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (Score:4, Insightful)
No matter how you feel about the late Mr. Steve Jobs, that guy was a real asset to Apple, Inc.
The marketing department of Apple, Inc. did not need to "sell" their wares as much as their peers in other companies (like Nokia or RIM, for example), as Mr. Jobs himself had done most of the selling.
There is a double whammy for Nokia, though
By abandoning all their previous phone OSes, and blindly adopted the Microsoft Windows as their one-and-only OS, many Nokia users - even those who had used Nokia for many years - had started looking at offerings from competing brands - from Apple, to Samsung, to (at a lesser degree), RIM.
Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (Score:5, Funny)
Uh, Nokia haven't abandoned their other OSs. They're still selling Symbian, dumb and Linux phones.
Never end a completely uninformed argument with the facts. It's just not nice.
Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (Score:5, Informative)
They have been officially in process of abandoning symbian since 2011 or so, and it will officially end in total abandonment in 2016. In reality, symbian has been largely abandoned marketing wise back in 2011 along with the catastrophic "platform burning" memo which made sales go from "increasing by about 5% yearly" to "total collapse" overnight.
Linux smartphone is 100% abandoned. Meego has been abandoned before N9 was even properly out, with team developing it long disbanded. N9 is no longer manufactured and they're just selling the rest of the stock. There has been virtually no marketing push behind N9 either. Fun trivia: it still outsold all lumia phones to date.
Dumb phones are still going, but how long they will last is anyone's guess. Elop has finally gotten around to axing meltemi dev team (linux based dumbphone OS), which means that nokia essentially has no OS for dumbphones past 2016, when it's supposed to fully abandon symbian. WP is unsuitable for dumbphones due to both hardware requirements and software pricing, and Elop's clear main goal is to make nokia into a 100% WP OEM and nothing more. That makes dumbphone division future into a very big question mark.
Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (Score:4, Insightful)
Who says dumbphones need a multi-purpose OS?! It is actually in the best interest of a dumbphone to be dumb and not have such things as preemtive multitasking, apis, etc as they all takes cpu cycles - battery power. 2016 is a long time away and I am pretty sure Nokia has the experience and dev staff to clobber together a dumbphone and its software in 2 years.
Re: (Score:3)
absolutely, a dumbphone needs to text at most (lots of african farmers, for example, use texts to fulfil their admittedly limited data needs). But a phone like the old Nokias that would last for a week - with use - is more important.
Mind you, I think Nokia *had* the experience and dev staff. most of the good ones will have quit.
Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (Score:5, Interesting)
Dumb phones are still going, but how long they will last is anyone's guess.
Well, basically, I think they will last for a very long time.
At least until a smart phone becomes cheaper than a dumb phone - which imho is possible considering a smart phone doesn't have all those mechanical buttons a dumb phone has. And a dozen or so buttons may very well be more expensive to produce than a single touch screen display.
And even then there will likely always remain a market for simple phones that do one thing, and one thing very well: making phone calls.
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At least until a smart phone becomes cheaper than a dumb phone - which imho is possible considering a smart phone doesn't have all those mechanical buttons a dumb phone has. And a dozen or so buttons may very well be more expensive to produce than a single touch screen display.
It's not the price. It's the battery life. My wife wants a phone that can stay turned on for over a week without charging. I want a phone that can stay in my car, turned off, and work after three months, for emergencies.
Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (Score:4, Interesting)
I want a phone that can stay in my car, turned off, and work after three months, for emergencies.
Claimed to last, turned off, for 15 years. [spareone.com] It's on my list of gadgets to get.
Maybe longer (Score:3)
Dumb phones are still going, but how long they will last is anyone's guess.
Well, basically, I think they will last for a very long time.
At least until a smart phone becomes cheaper than a dumb phone
I use a "dumb" phone to accept my SMS confirmations for bank transfers etc. That way I can use the banking site from my smart phone without worrying about some malware creating transactions and confirming them by intercepting the SMS. There is also the advantage that I always have a back-up phone, my dumb-phone batteries last about a week in standby and on PAYG it has nearly zero cost (I have to make a call or sent an SMS within 3 months to keep it active).
Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (Score:5, Informative)
how long they will last is anyone's guess
As long as there are developing countries one would imagine. The Nokia 1100 is the world's best selling phone. 250 million 1100's have been sold since its launch in late 2003. Nokia has recently come up with a replacement the Nokia 110 (that I'm really hoping to get a hold of).
I have a GSM smart phone. It does tricks like check my e-mail and weather. But the other 90% of the time I'm just carrying the 1100. The battery on standby lasts a week give or take. If It gets dropped I don't worry about the screen cracking. And if I'm ever mugged I can always bludgeon the mugger with it.
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I was days away from buying a Symbian-based Nokia when "the announcement" came, it was just down to a choice between two models. It would have been my eighth (?) Nokia.
Now I have my first ever Samsung, it runs Android. Saves me from having to learn to use an OS which was about to be dumped.
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Microsoft pulled an Osbourne with WinPhone, by announcing WinPhone8 while they're still trying to sell WP7, on devices that everyone knows will not be upgradable to the new OS. Why on earth would anyone buy WP7 now that WP8 is supposedly right around the corner, and fixes all the glaring problems with WP7? (And why would WP8 be needed if WP7 didn't have glaring problems?) This is exactly what put Osbourne computer out of business: Mr. Osbourne announced the next version too early, people stopped buying t
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Apple, Inc. did not need to "sell" their wares as much as their peers in other companies (like Nokia or RIM, for example)
RIM are actually selling phones?
Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (Score:4, Interesting)
The marketing department of Apple, Inc. did not need to "sell" their wares as much as their peers in other companies (like Nokia or RIM, for example), as Mr. Jobs himself had done most of the selling.
Ah, that must be why Apple posters seem to be everywhere, if you turned on a TV any time in the last five years you had a good chance of seeing at least one Apple advert, and every major film in the last decade or so has had gratuitous Apple product placement.
Re: (Score:3)
I understand the sentiment, but there are far bigger douchebags out there, even if you restrict it to the CEO / executive set.
For example (in no particular order or degree of severity):
Steve Ballmer (Microsoft)
Ken Lay (Enron)
Bernard Ebbers (Worldcom)
Any executive at Goldman Sachs
etc.
At least Jobs created value for his company, his shareholders, and his employees; and he did it without stealing, crashing the economy, or throwing chairs at people (that we know of).
Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (Score:4, Informative)
If Yang would have sold Yahoo to Microsoft, Microsoft would be in even worse condition AND Yahoo's shareholders would have been thrilled.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
in europe we make it a sport not to buy any product that advertises too much, like nokia did in europe :D
it doesn't work on us anymore.
Re:Subsidized price (Score:4, Interesting)
in europe we make it a sport not to buy any product that advertises too much, like nokia did in europe :D
it doesn't work on us anymore.
Then what's with all the Heineken-only bars everywhere? I had to go kinda far out of the way to get a good beer when I was there (this was in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands)
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It's worse (Score:5, Interesting)
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I guess you really haven't gotten the point then.
The Heineken logo (not sure what the point of the thing is) can be found on just about any bar. But 99% of them (at least in the Netherlands) will serve you a plethora of different beers. I personally haven't seen a bar/cafe where they sold Heineken only.
The only thing the Heineken logo tells me is that there is _a_ bar at that location. I'm sure not drinking that stuff..
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Heineken in bars in Belgium, let alone Heineken-only bars? Where was that?
In Belgium, bars serve beer. That means no Heineken.
Re:Subsidized price (Score:4, Funny)
a sane choice, considering typical French beer...
Re:Subsidized price (Score:4, Interesting)
Unfortunately, the stupidity actually is real, painful, intense and relentless. It's boundless, infinite and beyond the realm of understanding. It burns.
Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Informative)
OS LIMITATIONS
1. No true multitasking for 3rd party apps - they re frozen in the background.
2. No Divx/Xvid video codec support. Zune will convert with loss of quality.
3. No mass storage mode.
4. No micro-SD card support.
5. Only support up to 16GB storage .
6. No filemanager. Directory system is totally opaque.
7. Need Zune to transfer files. Zune will only transfer photos, videos & music. All other files need to email/upload to yourself.
8. Your contact details are automatically uploaded to cloud service whether you like it or not.
9. Limited to 800x480 resolution.
10. Voice search is hardwired to Bing.
11. Cannot use any MP3 file as ringtone except those with strict constraints.
12. Cannot set static IP address so no connection to ad-hoc networks.
13. No VPN support for this âoecorporate enterpriseâ phone.
14. Cannot sync directly with Outlook without syncing to Cloud
15. Totally closed OS, cannot sideload apps outside MS Marketplace.
16. System font size cannot be changed.
17. Images and photos cannot be renamed in the phone.
18. Windows Live ID account cannot change country once set.
19. No centralized notification page.
20. Alarm clock cannot work when phone is turned off. All Nokia Symbian and Meego phones can do this.
21. The idle screen is completely blank and cannot display time or notifications.
22. Only photos allowed as email attachments, documents not allowed.
23. No way to stream audio to the majority of car audio systems as the most common Bluetooth rSAP profile is not implemented.
24. Cannot stream audio from video playback to Bluetooth devices as A2DP profile is not implemented.
25. No support for full on-device encryption required for secure applications like mobile banking and online payment.
26. Cannot use Bluetooth keyboard (no HID profile)
27. Cannot silence ringtone or alarm by flipping the phone.
28. Very limited customization option.
29. Cannot be upgraded to WP8 (Apollo)
USABILITY ISSUES
30. No always visible status bar for battery life, signal strength, carrier ID, 2G/3G wi-fi, Bluetooth on.
31. Taskmanager has no option to shut down apps you donâ(TM)t want running in the background.
32. Search and Back button cannot be de-activated in apps or games and easily touched by accident which interrupt your user experience.
33. Lockscreen need to be activated to show missed call/sms notification.
34. No way to close an app except pressing back button all the way to the first screen.
35. Tiny fonts in messages is very hard to read for those over 45.
36. Cannot create and save playlists on the phone.
37. Playlist can only be edited when you are playing it.
38. Cannot search your music collection on the phone, only in the Marketplace.
39. Cannot close music player, can only pause. Music player on lockscreen will stay until you reboot. Be careful not to touch it in a meeting.
40. No draggable progress bar for current track playing and no indication which track in an album is currently playing
41. Cannot lock screen orientation.
42. Online and phone contacts are mixed together with no ability to filter.
43. Search button in dialer does not search contacts for dialing, but search call history.
44. Cannot save draft sms messages.
45. Call history only show phone number type. If a contact has multiple phone nos. for a type the number used is unknown.
46. Cannot recognize phone numbers in sms or email to save or use as calling number.
47. Text messages can only be deleted one by one or the whole thread.
48. Cannot select multiple pictures for deleting, sending or uploading. They must be done one at a time.
49. No way to see photo details - dimension, date/time taken, file size, etc
50. Apps are listed alphabetically with no way to group by category. Can be hard to find if you donâ(TM)t remember the name.
51. Calendar scheduler has no weekly view and monthly view is non-zoomable.
52. No peak time/off-peak time scheduling for email downloads to prevent unnecessary email downloads at overnight.
53. If both wi-fi and data connection are available which one it chooses to use is unpredictable. User experiences donâ(TM)t agree with Microsoft that it âoetypicallyâ choose wi-fi over 3G.
FEATURE LIMITATIONS
54. No live wallpaper, no widgets, no themes
55. No haptic feedback for keyboard.
56. No Swype.
57. No flashplayer support.
58. No support for Java apps.
59. No call recording or app to do it.
60. No call blocking or app to do it.
61. No screenshots or app to do it.
62. No auto wallpaper changer and no app to do it.
63. Totally locked down os means apps which interact directly with hardware not allowed. This excludes a whole range of useful apps
64. No equalizer for Zune music player.
65. No data traffic counter and no app to do it.
66. IE browser has no text reflow, no download capability and no offline reading.
67. No 3rd party browsers allowed except those based on IE.
68. Volume up/down buttons cannot be used to zoom in camera (sign of an immature os)
69. Cannot open zip or rar files received as email attachment.
70. Cannot send or receive video by MMS.
71. Office Mobile has much less features than 3rd party Office editors like SmartOffice, QuickOffice and Polaris. Shame on you, Microsoft!
72. No native Google maps and Bing maps is useless for most countries outside U.S.
73. Email time stamp does not show the year.
74. Wide difference in apps availability in different markets and users locked to one market.
75. Not all Bing features available outside U.S. especially Local Scout
DUMB AND DUMBER
76. One volume control for all functions including media playback, ringtones, alarms, notifications.
77. Wi-fi disconnects when screen sleeps. If 3G is available background updates will use 3G and use up your data plan.
78. If you receive a text message when talking on the phone an audio alert will blast your ear at the full volume set. All other phones will give a soft beep.
79. Can only enter one mobile phone no. for each contact. Mobile nos. entered in other fields will not accept sms.
80. Cannot send/receive MMS without enabling 3G data connection. MMS does not use 3G data.
81. Phone cannot be charged when off.
82. Need to be plugged in to wall charger to sync wirelessly (a funny definition of wireless).
83. Oversized fonts for headings waste screen space and result in low information density
84. Phone will wake up and display sms content on lockscreen when locked â" a privacy violation.
85. Phone can be rebooted without entering security code.
FEATURES EVEN DUMB PHONES HAVE BUT WP7.5 DOESNâ(TM)T
86. No bluetooth file transfer.
87. Cannot handle USSD codes necessary for prepaid users to obtain services.
88. Cannot filter call history into Missed Calls, Received Calls, Dialled Calls, Recent Calls, etc
89. No way to backup or export call history
90. Cannot show call duration in call history.
91. No way to edit MMS profile to work with a carrier in the OS. Need an app which is not available in all markets.
92. Call history does not group calls by contact.
93. Call history does not show the time of call for calls older than current day.
94. Cannot set custom sounds for different types of notifications.
95. No ringer profiles.
96. No silent option (no vibrate and no ring) from ringer menu. Need a trip to settings and another trip to revert.
97. Cannot send/receive contact as a csv file.
98. Cannot backup your contacts or sms to PC.
99. Cannot save contact to SIM card.
100. Cannot change alarm ring tone or use a MP3 file.
101. Cannot set alarm snooze interval.
BONUS SHORTCOMINGS
102. Unable to read long names in audio and video playlist as they get cut off
103. Zune does not allow user to add or update podcasts directly from the phone
104. Zune can only be installed if you have an internet connection
105. Alarm does not revert to speaker if headphones are plugged in.
106. Forwarded emails cannot be edited
107. OS does not reduce volume of text message alerts when using headphones
108. Generally force users to use IE, Bing and SkyDrive by shutting out competitors or tying OS features to them.
109. Wifi- hotspot and internet tethering not integral features in the OS but need to be provided by manufacturer on a case by case basis.
110. Internet Explorer has no forward button for page views.
111. Mobile Office cannot edit Office 97-2003 documents which competing Office editors and WP7 can. Typical Microsoft strategy to force users to upgrade.
112. Embedded images in emails do not download
113. Bing maps need to tap to get voice direction for next turn.
114. No Silverlight support.
115. Compass gives wrong reading in the Southern hemisphere due to bad API in the OS.
116. 3rd party apps cannot put notifications on the lockscreen
117. Cannot be charged up when battery is completely dead. (Lumia specific)
118. No support for lossless audio format like FLAC and WMA lossless
119. No HDMI output (Lumia specific).
120. No data usage monitor and no app to do it.
121. No over the air (OTA) firmware upgrade. All upgrades must be via PC installed Zune.
Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Funny)
122. If S60+M[ae]e[mG]o strategy was a "burning platform" ... This platform is RADIOACTIVE, ON FIRE, and EXPLODING, bitchez!
Elop stood on the burning deck, whence all but he had fled.
The flame that lit Nokia's wreck shone round him o'er the dead.
Yet horrible and grim he stood, as born to rule the storm;
A creature of demonic blood, a proud, though troll-like form.
The flames rolled on – he would not go without his Ballmer's word;
That Ballmer, in Redmond below, his voice no longer heard.
He called aloud "Say, Ballmer, say if yet my task is done?"
He knew not that the stock-price lay yet twice the buyout one.
(Okay, that last line descended to junior-high love-poem level of suck; I'll quit before it gets worse.)
Seriously, just how much farther can MS possibly need to ruin Nokia before they buy them out and give Elop his bonus?
Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Interesting)
What's *really* weird is that the iPhone has some of those same limitations and yet it is wildly successful ...
I wonder what the key differences are ?
(I already have an idea, just curious what the /. crowd thinks...)
Re:Subsidized price (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Insightful)
What's *really* weird is that the iPhone has some of those same limitations and yet it is wildly successful ...
The difference is that the iPhone got there first, so whatever problems remain, people learned to live with them. The whole trouble with the Windows Phone is that it's late to the party, so to actually be accepted it would need to be superior to the iPhone, not just on par, as just being on par won't make people switch. Why waste time learning a new phone OS when it has no advantage over the old one and still a lot of the same problems?
Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Insightful)
"Apple" is a positive brand. You attach it to something and the something gains percieved value.
"Windows" and "Microsoft" are not positive brands. You attach "Windows" to something, and people immediately think of their home PC. That is not a good thing given how awful the average home PC is.
There's also first mover advantage for the iPhone, things that people do care about like very high resolution displays & games, and Microsoft's well earned reputation for killing their media products on a whim (which they just did to all WP7 devices). But even if it was just as good as the iPhone they'd be facing an uphill battle simply due to the Windows name. Windows is a brand you tolerate, not one that inspires loyalty.
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"Windows" and "Microsoft" are not positive brands. You attach "Windows" to something, and people immediately think of their home PC. That is not a good thing given how awful the average home PC is.
Notice that in Nokia's big first wave of ads for the Lumia (the "beta testing is over" ads with Chris Parnell, aka 30 Rock's Dr. Spaceman), nobody ever says the words "Microsoft" or "Windows".
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5. Only support up to 16GB storage (Dell Venue Pro comes in up to 32GB, you can put a 32GB uSD card in most of the HTC ones if you open them up, the Samsung Focus can reach 40 with an added 32GB card).
8. Your contact details are automatically uploaded to cloud service whether you like it or not. (You don
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You are either a class A shill or you don't even own a Windows Phone at all. Most of what you are saying is false is actually true and a lot of your other points are just making excuses for what the OP is criticising. That's weak sauce and if you actually give a shit about windows phone, maybe you should face the facts of its shortcomings instead of trying to lie your way through.
Disclaimer: HD7 owner.
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As a Lg Quantum WP7 owner I actually learned a bit from both of those lists. Nothing that impacts me much, since the irritations or omitted features that I actually use didn't take long to discover especially from a multi-OS background. That said many of those rebuttals if accurate help clarify or correct and I don't think of anybody who honestly offers a counterpoint is a shill. It almost seems like perhaps the original list is detailing the first release of WP7 which I think only the most mindless fanboy
Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Insightful)
Now if only stuff being added to Windows Phone 8 was in any way useful to people buying a Lumia today...
Saying "it's fixed in 8" is totally meaningless when current phones can't be upgraded. Why would anybody in their right mind want to buy a Lumia right now knowing that? Microsoft threw the current lineup of phones under the bus on that one.
Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Funny)
But apart from those 121 negative points, what did you think of it?
Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, wait
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If the list is a joke as you say then you shouldn't have any problem rebutting it. All I see is instead of a rebuttal, you make a lame excuse for why one of the points in particular is actually true. Makes me wonder how many more of the "jokes" are true as well. The deafening sound of crickets make me think quite a lot of them. I considered buying a Lumia 900 since they are practically giving them away now but after reading this, no freaking way and I'll be sure to steer my friends far away too.
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Silver light
I think its pretty obvious that if you go to a webpage with Silver light on it Windows Phone doesn't support it.
Wow! (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me guess, when Ballmer did the monkey dance, you were the one person in the world who was sexually aroused?
I have seen some delusional posts in my time but this one takes the biscuit. You don't deny any of the shortcomings, just come up with endless excuses or even downright admitting it is a huge failure and that is what you think of as a rebuttal.
With fans like you, what need has Windows 7 of enemies. You are supposed to damn things with faint praise, not by dragging them through the mud and stepping on their wind pipe.
Thanks for this amazing post, if I had even the slightest incline to perhaps one day try a MS phone, you have thoroughly killed it off. Oh I get, you are secretly an Apple fanboy and seek to discredit MS in disguise? Good job!
Re:Subsidized price (Score:4, Insightful)
For the record, I sell these things for a living, and have had a WP7 (now 7.5) phone in my pocket for nearly 24 months. It's not perfect, but I like it, a lot, and I really expected not to when I received my first device.
8. Your contact details are automatically uploaded to cloud service whether you like it or not.
Wrong, this can be disabled. I don't have a single contact stored in the cloud on my LG Optimus Quantum. It's actually never had a data features used, 3G or WiFi.
Wait, you sell them, but you've never used most of the features? You've never used the web browser, a social networking app, a map? Have you made a call with it yet?
Yeah yeah (Score:3)
You have been saying this about every MS mobile release since the dark days of CE. Then 5 was supposed to be the savior, then 6, then 6.5 then 7 then 7.5, then 8 and no doubt 9 and 10 are already on your horizon as the version that will save you from damnation.
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You are still wrong. The costs are $450 (the advertising cost) plus the handset subsidy. AT&T pays more than $49 per handset to buy from Nokia.
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I've not seen one reason yet to suggest to anyone that they buy a Windows OS phone over any other, but if I were so inclined what selling points would you suggest? And by the way, forget Nokia. They decided to bite the dust when they elected to get in bed with devil who wants to infect the lives of every being on the planet by requiring their software be used to do anything useful.
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In other news, random product that is way in the back spends lots of money on marketing to try and get notice pulled from the dominant product. What will they think of next?!
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Nokia Lumia does not cost $49 to customers. It costs (and makes profit of) $49 + whatever mobile operators make during the two year contract.
Then again, TFA only talks about the costs and profits for Nokia, so what customers pay mobile operators is irrelevant in this case.
On top of that Nokia is trying to capture US market, so they can spend more on it while they generate revenue from rest of the world.
You assume Nokia is succesfull enough outside the US to cover these expenses. I live in the Netherlands and see iPhones, HTC's and Samsung Galaxy's all around me. Despite ads on TV every single hour of the day, I've never seen a Lumia used in real life. Obviously one sample isn't representative, but if they were to cover the 10:1 ratio in the US, you'd expect it would much more
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The cheapest discount price online in Australia currently is around $AU469 for an unlocked Lumia 900. Or $10 a month on a $30 plan from Optus - for the equivalent of a $20 a month BYO phone plan.
So the true cost of the phone to the consumer is in the same ball park as the $450!
Re:Subsidized price (Score:5, Informative)
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except you can take a lot of phones to an off-brand prepaid plan and save a lot of money...
Re:Subsidized price (Score:4, Interesting)
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I've got a better idea. (Score:5, Funny)
How about they give me $400 directly and then I'll pay the $49 for the Lumia.
They've saved $50!
Re:I've got a better idea. (Score:5, Funny)
We lose money on every sale, but we'll make up for it in volume!
Re:I've got a better idea. (Score:5, Funny)
We lose money on every sale, but we'll make up for it in volume!
What volume? I think I've only seen a couple of Windows phones outside of a mobile phone store. One was owned by a Microsoft employee and the other 'won' it in a Microsoft developer conference.
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But that cute chick sitting next to you will notice your phone when you shove it under her nose and run your kayaking video.
Re:I've got a better idea. (Score:4, Funny)
Wait for the next OS update, I hear they have modified the volume control to go up to 11.
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The *only* time I've seen a Windows phone outside a mobile phone store is on TV. There seems to be a lot in recent shows, Hawaii 50 as one example. Maybe that's where all the sales are going?
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I Wish (Score:4, Insightful)
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They are working on it. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=NOK&t=5y&l=on&z=l&q=l&c= [yahoo.com]
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Mine did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_C1-01 [wikipedia.org]
No contract. SIM phone. Basically it's a really really good clock-radio, with a decent mp3 player, a useful electronic calendar etc etc etc, that just happens to include an okay phone too when I want to spend $10 for 30 days of Fido airtime.
The camera's a bit of joke by modern standards, but it's actually good enough for 'make a note of that' shots.
And yup... this is exactly the type of /excellent/ cheap phone that Nokia made their rep on so you'd buy Nokia w
I have an idea... (Score:2)
Oh, right, because they're both evil and stupid to think that we'll shop around for new providers...
Just like we shop around for insurance?
iphone "killers": Samsung/Sprint Instinct, $100mil (Score:4, Interesting)
The low $199 price of the iphone really caught most carriers off guard -- the standard pricing for smartphones in those days was around $350 *with* contract. So the Instinct's original pricing of $179 had to be lowered to $129. Sprint HEAVILY marketed this thing, with many ads showing the "advantages" of the Instinct over the iphone. Hesse, CEO of Sprint, spent $100mil on marketing the Instinct.
However the Instinct (or In-stink as its customers would come to call it), was really a terrible product -- terrible web browser, lame features, AND worse, required Sprint's brand new, and very pricey (for Sprint), data plans.
Sprint refuses to release real sales numbers, but estimates by analysts were in the 350K range -- perhaps after a year it might have hit 500K. So that is at best $200 of MARKETING COSTS for each Instinct sold.
Hesse would never again stink that much into marketing a phone. Indeed some blame that burn episode for Sprint's rather poor marketing of the Palm Pre, a much better device that never was really given a proper chance...
Windows Phone needs a hook (Score:4, Insightful)
The iPhone worked because people could use it as an iPod, and it had the whole exclusive iTunes infrastructure behind it.
Blackberry's killed it with their keyboard.
Android didn't get popular until the Droid came out with their keyboard, giving it that differentiation from the iPhone, and that it was available outside of Cingular/AT&T.
Windows phone doesn't really offer any exclusive hook that'll sell itself. It has a nice UI, but the other systems are pretty good and ultimately very usable.
I suspect they'll have to tie in deeper with the upcoming Windows 8 infrastructure to get Windows Phone to sell. Or maybe XBox games. But right now it doesn't have that absolutely exclusive must-have killer app or selling point.
It's really shame, because Windows phone is a perfectly fine system that just needs a critical mass to get going.
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Here's an idea....how about making it impossible for Window's phones to restrict owners from running any software that they please? Since most manufacturers seem to be limiting their phones to the dictates of the carriers it would really make Window's phones stand out in the crowd!
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i don't know if everything (gps, 3g, camera) worked with it but you can install ubuntu on the n900. without hacking, or rooting or doing any weird shit. basically, n900 is the closest to an 'open' phone. and nobody bought it, inspite of huge marketing by nokia.
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There was no huge marketing by Nokia, it was an open market phone (no subsidy). Nokia viewed it as a niche product at the time more designed to secure their mindshare in Europe against erosion by Android than to make any money.
Re:Windows Phone needs a hook (Score:4, Informative)
That doesn't even begin to make sense. The very first Android phone had a physical keyboard!
So if you want to look for hooks, that most certainly is not it. I suspect there is none.
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OMFG, how many times do I have to hear this shit? You fanboys have been bleating this shit for the entire 2 years of windows phone's existence. Just need marketing, just need Mango, Just need Nokia.
Yeah WP is a flop, because Nokia was selling so awesome in the US before that.
Are you retarded? I didn't say the word Nokia one single time in my post.
Uh... yeah you did.
Too Soon (Score:2)
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Man, I think you have that all backwards... they're relying on the popularity of the awesomeness of WinPho8 to sell Windows 8.
Nope (Score:2)
Re:Too Soon (Score:4, Insightful)
"the mobile phone platform will become alot more appealing to many people who want the familiarity of their PC on their phone. "
(remove shoe, bang on table)
Nyet! Nyet! Nyet!
That's one of the biggest problems with Microsoft.
Average people's idea of Windows: something annoying they have to use at work or on their PC, DO NOT WANT.
I had a Windows Mobile 5.x, and they obviously attempted to make it "look like" and sort of feel-like Windows XP. It was horrid. I got it for free from somebody who bought an early iPhone (2 or 3G?).
Jobs understood the problem from the beginning. He did NOT shove the Mac interface on the iPhone. Why? Because he had the balls to say that something whose interface he personally contributed to or at least vetted would not be good on a handheld phone.
Now Microsoft STILL fails to correctly learn the lesson, and after a major fail putting a craptastic XP on their phone, they are putting a phone interface and craptasticing Windows on the PC.
I know what people will feel: DO NOT WANT.
Microsoft should do something more radical, like not call their mobile phone operating system "Windows", and stop believing that there is any reason to have the same interface. Start by making something good, really good--and by the new name declare that the sublimation of everything to supporting the Great Windows Empire is now over. For this to happen, Ballmer needs to be fired first. Why is he still there?
Re:Too Soon (Score:5, Interesting)
Nokia was a giant in the cell industry but has been slipping lately.
Slipping? That's an understatement. Go check out the 1 year graph [google.com]. You can't even see today's price because it's lost under the markers at the bottom.
Great! (Score:2)
They should start turning a profit in about -22 years.
Microsoft killed Nokia (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, I know I'm just stupid open source open source hardware jerk but when asked, which is quite often, which phone to buy I always say avoid anything related to Microsoft. Now admittedly my personal anomosity goes way back to Gate's letter against hobbyists using his software without ponying up pennies to him. Still today though my advice to everyone is to not buy anything that requires you to pay monies past the original transaction.
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Once upon a time, Nokia pivoted from being world leader in wood product sales to being a technology and communications leader. It's a pity they didn't see the black swan and pivot again
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So they chose Microsoft because it had the sharper blade? Yeah, I know I'm just a market of one but I still search for deals on N900s so I can benefit from Nokia's best product for as long as I can. If they would have sold the N950 without restrictions I'd be buying them up too. So tell me, what Microsoft product do you have the same devotion for?
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Bingo! As soon as products and services serve the manufacturer/carrier more than the customer the customer responds with: DO NOT WANT. The customer will put up with a little irritation but the big corps that are floundering badly (Nokia + Microsoft in this market space) are still too slow to grok this (the 'reality distortion field' around themselves blinds them to the market's actual desires).
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Hate to say it, but Nokia was going to die anyway.
That's self serving spin from Microsoft trolls and has been debunked.
Changes Windows on it (Score:2, Offtopic)
Nokia Lumina includes Windows Phone. It is implied to be version 1.0 since MS marketing did not mention which version is installed on the phone. If its not obvious, MS Marketing will tell you.
From the headline, each version jump of Windows Phone seems to be worth $49 to the consumer.
MS should release Windows Phone 9.183673469387755. You know they are going to.
9.183673469387755 x $49 = $450.
Assuming a fixed cost of marketing of $450 per phone per consumer for future releases, at MS Phone OS v 9.1836734693877
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Microsoft isn't going to allow any version jumps that don't suck in profit for themelves, so it makes no sense at all for anyone to purchase a version of their software nearing end of support.
Fits the pattern: (Score:2)
That's how much I took in before they got me to use Bing.
Cheaper solution available (Score:2)
Win 8 Phone? (Score:4, Interesting)
WebOS isn't quite dead yet. (Score:3)
OpenWebOS may make things interesting again soon. Unfortunately, the initial focus is on tablets. The UI, Unobtrusive notifications, Gesture navigation, synergy, cards, stacked cards, tabbed cards are still far ahead and more elegant than the other mobile OS's.
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As long has it doesn't have Microsoft shit on it I'd buy one, until then I'll hang on to my N900. Oh, and I'll be happy to entertain offers from anyone wanting to get rid of their N900s.
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Right, the whole WP7 thing is to lure developers and to get enough of a base they can get statistically significant metrics on what they need to make it do.
Presumably the plan has been to incorporate this into WP8, whether they succeed or not is another matter entirely.
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How much does it cost to post a comment on slashdot asking "How much does it cost to buy a slashvertisement against your competitor, with a headline that implies that the competitor's product has negative value?". It should cost the same I guess.
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