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Windows Phone 8 Detailed, Uses Windows 8 Kernel 267

Posted by Soulskill
from the starting-from-scratch dept.
MrSeb writes "Thanks to a leaked video — a video that Microsoft made for Nokia — we now have lots of details about Windows Phone 8 (WP8). From deep Windows 8, Skype, and SkyDrive integration, through to the addition of NFC 'wallet' payments and BitLocker encryption, it sounds like Windows Phone 8 will be close to iOS and Android in terms of features. The interesting stuff is under the hood, though: WP8 will have the Windows 8 kernel instead of the Windows CE kernel of its predecessors. Through the Win 8 kernel, WP8 will support native code and multi-core processors. It will also have the same network stack, security, and multimedia support as Windows 8. While Win 8 apps won't be directly compatible with Windows Phone 8, Windows Phone manager Joe Belfiore says developers will be able to 'reuse — by far — most of their code.'"
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Windows Phone 8 Detailed, Uses Windows 8 Kernel

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  • Scrolling (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 03, 2012 @02:44PM (#38918601)

    And it'll still scroll more smoothly than an Android.

    • My Asus Transformer Prime 201 (Android 4.03) scrolls and rotates the screen every bit as fast as iOS devices. Try harder next time.

  • by SuricouRaven (1897204) on Friday February 03, 2012 @02:46PM (#38918635)
    Now with 'handwarmer' function!
  • Xbox too? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by spire3661 (1038968) on Friday February 03, 2012 @02:48PM (#38918675) Journal
    Im pretty sure anyone with a brain figured this was the general direction they were gonna go when Win 8 was announced. MS wants to unify mobile, living room and desktop. The Xbox 720 will probably be the Win 8 kernel too.
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It was explicitly stated as the idea when Windows 7 was getting close to sale-able. XNA means you can code once, write 3 interfaces, and release on Xbox, WinPhone 7, and Windows 7. This is just going a few steps furthur down the road.

      • XNA means you can code once, write 3 interfaces, and release on Xbox, WinPhone 7, and Windows 7.

        But if you drop Xbox 360 and Windows Phone 7, you can code once, write several interfaces, and release on Windows, GNU/Linux, Android, Mac OS X, iOS, and (if you're a big company) PS3 and Wii. So a developer has to choose between Xbox 360 and Windows Phone 7 on one hand and Linux, Android, Mac, and iOS on the other hand. As I understand it, the only big win of XNA is if a company too small for the PS3 or Wii developer program wants to make a console-style game because Xbox 360 is the only console open to sm

    • Re:Xbox too? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by epiphani (254981) <<ten.lad> <ta> <inahpipe>> on Friday February 03, 2012 @03:35PM (#38919361)

      Possibly stupid question: where's the video that leaked? I can't find it on that site or the one it links to as a source. Anyone know? /Could be my noscript causing problems

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 03, 2012 @02:50PM (#38918687)

    "While Win 8 apps won't be directly compatible with Windows Phone 8, Windows Phone manager Joe Belfiore says developers will be able to 'reuse — by far — most of their code."

    Good. I'll only need 8 handsets to display the ribbon in MS Office.

    • by batkiwi (137781)

      The point is that you rewrite the UI per platform, but the core business logic is "write once".

  • Bizarro World (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RazzleFrog (537054) on Friday February 03, 2012 @02:50PM (#38918693)

    I predict a world where Microsoft has the best mobile platform but can't break the stranglehold of Apple and Google.

    • by coinreturn (617535) on Friday February 03, 2012 @02:54PM (#38918753)

      I predict a world where Microsoft has the best mobile platform but can't break the stranglehold of Apple and Google.

      I highlighted the part that shows what a wild imagination you have.

      • Re:Bizarro World (Score:5, Insightful)

        by RazzleFrog (537054) on Friday February 03, 2012 @02:57PM (#38918815)

        You can say wild but companies learn from their mistakes. Look at how they've done with XBOX and Kinect. As a PS3 owner I can tell you that they leveled Sony.

        • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Look at how they've done with XBOX and Kinect.

          And Zune and Tablet PCs.... oh, wait...

        • I have yet to see Kinect as an important gaming feature. As the Sony propaganda says so well, buttons are really useful even with motion controls.

          Also I'm still waiting for a AAA 360 title that actually runs at any level of HD internally. These 540p upconverts are blurry blocky messes. I like my PS3 exclusive 720p and 1080p games.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I predict a world where Microsoft has the best mobile platform but can't break the stranglehold of Apple and Google.

        I highlighted the part that shows what a wild imagination you have.

        Why is it "wild"?

        Apple has proven its superiority over everyone - at this time. Tech is extremely volatile. Any dislike for any company and their business practices is very ... short sighted.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          Methinks he's referring to your implication that Microsoft having the "best" mobile platform is laughable, at best. Sort of like saying RIM has the best management team, bar-none.

    • Re:Bizarro World (Score:4, Insightful)

      by FuegoFuerte (247200) on Friday February 03, 2012 @03:00PM (#38918861)

      We're almost there already. Win Phone 7 is a bit short on apps perhaps, but already has many features the other two don't (and yes, there are some features the others have that WinPhone 7 doesn't).

      There's still plenty of room for improvement in Windows Phone, but it's been improving rapidly already. I've owned one for about 6 months now I think (since the HTC Arrive came out on Sprint, whenever that was). It's been more stable than the "feature phones" I've owned, with the exception of my original Nokia 6185 in the '90s. If this keeps up, with Google's "Screw Security and Privacy" attitude, and Apple's "You can have it our way or you can't have it at all" "we know what hardware you want" attitude, I think Microsoft may even be able to break the stranglehold, with proper execution.

      • In WP7 Microsoft is trying to copy Apples "we know what hardware you want" slogan actually. Qualcomm single core chips only. No SD cards. No USB. No front camera. Only stuff that MS approves of. Its limitations are even presented as features. You don't need xyz (sounds familiar?). Maybe this is changing in WP8, though I wouldn't have my hopes up.

        • Re:Bizarro World (Score:4, Informative)

          by Missing.Matter (1845576) on Friday February 03, 2012 @05:34PM (#38920889)

          Windows Phones come in a variety of form factors at a variety of price points determined by the manufacturers. True the hardware variety is not as wide as Android, but that has also allowed Windows Phone to avoid many of the problems associated with keeping the ecosystem up to date; every single windows phone past and present is updatable to the latest release. Can't say the same for Android even over a year after 2.3 was released.

          Currently hardware varies by CPU speed, screen tech, memory, storage size, materials, colors, sliding keyboard, camera specs, and software features. And yes there are phones with front facing cameras. Again, this is more variety than you'll find in Apple's lineup (3 storage choices, 2 colors, everything else is the same), and less than you'll find in Android's lineup.

          What this leak is saying is that in the future phones will have different resolution, cores, form factors (blackberry-like), upgradable storage, etc.

    • Re:Bizarro World (Score:4, Insightful)

      by bonch (38532) * on Friday February 03, 2012 @03:01PM (#38918891)

      Don't count out Microsoft. They broke Sony's stranglehold at the height of the PS2.

      • Re:Bizarro World (Score:4, Informative)

        by jbwolfe (241413) on Friday February 03, 2012 @03:08PM (#38918957) Homepage
        Sony broke Sony's stranglehold...
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by binarylarry (1338699)

        If anyone broke anyone, it was Nintendo putting a size 6 Japanese boot in both Microsoft and Sony's ass.... at the same time.

        • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

          by RazzleFrog (537054)

          That makes absolutely no sense. Nintendo was and is the leader that Sony and XBox have been eating away at.

          • Really? You mean the N64 and Gamecube weren't massive failures?

            "In September 2009, IGN named the GameCube the 16th best gaming console of all time, behind all three of its competitors: the PlayStation 2 (3rd), Dreamcast (8th), and Xbox (11th). Aside from the Virtual Boy (which did not make the list at all), it was the only Nintendo console to not make the list's top 10."

            Nintendo managed to sell about 30 million N64s but that's fewer than the PS3 has sold, so no, Nintendo was NOT the leader when the Wii cam

      • Umm, no offense, but the PS2 has sold 153.19 million units as of March 31, 2011. The 360 has only sold 65.8 million as of January 19, 2012. And yes, I know what I'm comparing -- the PS2 has been out much longer, but Sony still has the majority of installed devices out there. Don't forget there's also 55.5 million Playstation 3s out there, as of September 30, 2011.

        Unlike Microsoft, Sony is still actively selling both consoles.

    • I predict a world where Microsoft has the best mobile platform but can't break the stranglehold of Apple and Google.

      They may not want to break Apple or Google's stranglehold...on the non-corporate user. But RIM is on the ropes, and is thought to be soon for sale. Many IT departments have only grudgingly accepted Apple and Android phones onto their networks. It seems like Nokia / Microsoft / RIM's network and customers might be a formula for success in the corporate world.

    • by owlnation (858981)
      I think you are right that they won't beat out Android or iPhone -- however, all RIM's users will belong to MS, very, very soon.
  • by tooyoung (853621) on Friday February 03, 2012 @02:52PM (#38918721)

    While Win 8 apps won't be directly compatible with Windows Phone 8, Windows Phone manager Joe Belfiore says developers will be able to 'reuse â" by far â" most of their code.'"

    Will they be able to reuse their Windows 7 Phone code, or was that a dead end?

    • From the reports it is not clear how the current apps will be supported except that they will work. It is reasonable to assume that developers will be able to change and redeploy the code but it is not known if the APIs will be unified and if new APIs will be usable in the old apps. Of course any .NET code that the is pure logic will work everywhere. The XAML code is tricky because it depends on the sets of controls that they will choose to make available

      • by gbjbaanb (229885) on Friday February 03, 2012 @03:46PM (#38919525)

        its not that clear if they will be fully supported however.

        From Herb Sutter's recent "Why C++" [msdn.com] presentation (here's a transcript [alejandrosegovia.net]), he mentions that mobile development moves towards native... with the implication that native mobile code will be much more predominant with Windows and phone 8.

        I should imagine there will be native (winRT) APIs but not sure if they will create wrappers for the old .NET phone APIs. Certainly Silverlight is no longer even listed under the technologies available for mobile development! I think you'll be ok to redevelop apps for windows phone 8, but they won't work without a little modification.

  • by Shag (3737) on Friday February 03, 2012 @03:00PM (#38918871) Homepage

    Or forward. Or sideways. WP8 won't be binary compatible with WinCE-based WP7 (which itself wasn't compatible with WinCE-based WM6), nor with desktop Windows 8, nor with, apparently, any other OS that's ever existed. Sure hope they make it real easy for developers to build their existing code for WP8.

    Oh, and it'll also be real interesting to see whether any WP7 devices can be upgraded to WP8.

    • It doesn't have to be. Palm switched off of the old DragonFire micros to a newer more modern one sometime around 8 years ago. The processing power difference was sufficient that they could run the 68k code in an emulator, and it ran as good or better than on the original platform. That's mostly because 90% of the processing power of most Palm apps was consumed in system library calls, and they recompiled the libraries to take advantage of a lot of native code. I don't see why they couldn't do a CE emul
    • Microsoft has traditionally been very good about giving old devices updates to the latest version. There's no reason to believe at least the last generation will be upgradeable, if not all of them.
    • by recoiledsnake (879048) on Friday February 03, 2012 @04:05PM (#38919777)

      >Or forward. Or sideways. WP8 won't be binary compatible with WinCE-based WP7 (which itself wasn't compatible with WinCE-based WM6), nor with desktop Windows 8, nor with, apparently, any other OS that's ever existed. Sure hope they make it real easy for developers to build their existing code for WP8.

      WP7 apps will run on WP8.

      http://wmpoweruser.com/brandon-watson-squashes-rumours-that-windows-phone-7-apps-will-be-incompatible-with-windows-phone-8/ [wmpoweruser.com]

  • Computer in a phone (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TheLordPhantom (2527654) on Friday February 03, 2012 @03:00PM (#38918873)
    I haven't really seen Windows 8 yet, but, this could potentially be a really awesome direction. I don't much like Windows personally, but I have always wished phones, tablets in particular had the flexibility of a general purpose computer. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping Microsoft let's this happen.
    • by Microlith (54737)

      I have always wished phones, tablets in particular had the flexibility of a general purpose computer.

      They always have. OS vendors have been happily not delivering that. Microsoft won't go much farther, what with the lock down they're demanding on these devices (well, all devices with Windows 8.)

    • I haven't really seen Windows 8 yet, but, this could potentially be a really awesome direction. I don't much like Windows personally, but I have always wished phones, tablets in particular had the flexibility of a general purpose computer. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping Microsoft let's this happen.

      Windows 8 x86 tablets will have that.

    • by Eloking (877834)

      I haven't really seen Windows 8 yet, but, this could potentially be a really awesome direction. I don't much like Windows personally, but I have always wished phones, tablets in particular had the flexibility of a general purpose computer. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping Microsoft let's this happen.

      May I introduce you to the ASUS slate - EP121 my good sir? I'm currently posting with one of those.

      Pretty awesome tablet with Win8 (if you don't mind 3.5 hour batteries, no access to the phone network, no GPS and low-end graphic card). There is also some annoying bug with Win8 Dev but those should be resolved soon. I recommend the video "ASUS EP121 Eee Slate Windows 7 Tablet PC - Part One - iPad Comparisons" on youtube if you're interested.

  • by ndtechnologies (814381) on Friday February 03, 2012 @03:03PM (#38918925)
    Mark my words, and I can't believe I'm even saying this, but Windows Phone, will soon be considered the best mobile platform, due to it's unification with the desktop, and XBOX. Unfortunately, it won't mean much because people will still want shiny iPhones and will clamor to the numerous free Android phones that they can get. From a technical standpoint, there is nothing about Android that is good. The reason it is so popular, is because it is cheap and most people can get one. There, I said it. /standby to be marked as Troll in 3, 2, 1
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jdastrup (1075795)
      I tend to agree with much of what you said. But I think it's more that they have the potential to become the best. They are late in the game, but they can learn from everyone else. A major problem they will have is getting developers to make apps for it. To compete with Android, it will have to be free. If not, as long as their marketshare numbers are a fraction of the Android devices out there, developers will dismiss it and so will everyone else.
      • major problem they will have is getting developers to make apps for it.

        They in fact do not have this problem. The windows phone marketplace is growing at a faster rate than the android store at the same point in its lifecycle. Today they have 60,000 apps after only 16 months. Yes Android and iOS stores have an order of magnitude more, but at some point (much before half a million apps I'd say) there are diminishing returns associated with the number of apps in a store.

    • by EXTomar (78739) on Friday February 03, 2012 @03:21PM (#38919185)

      I never understood the desire to unify desktop and other things (XBox) on a phone let alone why is it valuable. There is value in creating apps that interface with other systems but one is overstating the value of a whole phone dedicated to interfacing this way when it turns out people would rather have other features (mobile location services, e-readers, etc).

      Another way to think about not: Are people chomping at the bit who support Android and iPhone to get or sharing accessing to their home machines? These platforms aren't popular because of this nor do I see that changing in two years. If you can answer "Why do you think that is valuable?" then I can begin to see your stance otherwise I suspect that such features are "gee-whiz" but not necessary or the best use of the mobile phone platform.

      • by Microlith (54737)

        I never understood the desire to unify desktop and other things (XBox) on a phone let alone why is it valuable.

        Lock-in. Inability to transfer outside the Microsoft domain due to how much is tied up in their platforms.

      • If we look at the progression of these devices, from the IBM PC/Mac, to laptop computers to the current phone devices, the obvious trajectory is smaller, lighter, less power hungry and ever more powerful.

        Eventually we'll surely have a credit card sized AMOLED display with built-in personal computer. We'll carry one or more (personal and business machines) around in our wallets (which will have speakers and microphones so we can answer our wallets). But we'll also be able to pair our credit card computers

    • by sootman (158191)

      > Windows Phone, will soon be considered the best mobile
      > platform, due to it's unification with the desktop, and XBOX.
      > Unfortunately, it won't mean much because people will still
      > want shiny iPhones and will clamor to the numerous free
      > Android phones that they can get.

      Or maybe the reason it won't mean much because most people do not give a shit about integrating with their desktop and/or their XBox? What I want out of a mobile device is a really great experience when I'm out and about.* Yo

      • What I want out of a mobile device is a really great experience when I'm out and about.*

        True, that's a good goal to have for a mobile device, but you're not always out and about. In fact sometimes you're at home and there are data and apps on your home computer you might like to access. When we talk about integrating, we're talking about using and app on the desktop, then getting up and leaving and having the same app/data on your mobile phone. Edit your data on the phone then come back to your PC and it's all there.

        Could you imagine being on a call, walking in your front door, then transfe

        • by Microlith (54737)

          Microsoft tying all of their properties together would probably be an awesome way to see them back in court, but probably not (can't be seen attacking a "Job Creator"). Of course, if they were all broken up into separate companies we might see some sort of cross platform way of doing this instead of it all being tied into one company that will probably patent the shit out of it and sue anyone who tries to enable such compatibility.

    • by 0123456 (636235)

      "Mark my words, and I can't believe I'm even saying this, but Windows Phone, will soon be considered the best mobile platform, due to it's unification with the desktop, and XBOX."

      So Windows 8 Phones will have an integrated keyboard, mouse and Xbox controller?

      • Windows Phone devices might have slide-out keyboards, just has Xbox 360 controller have snap-on chatpads.

        As for the differences among a touch screen, a mouse, and an Xbox 360 controller, that's for the input layer of a game to decide. If porting a game means rewriting the input layer and dialing down the detail level, you may have just cut out 90 percent of the effort.

    • And assholes will be considered superior to the pussy since it unifies gay and heterosexual intercourse :)

      In more seriousness I suspect the unification is way too early, and doesn't look all that advantages yet. I don't want Autocad and MS office on my phone. I want a mobile dwg app and a mobile office suite. Completely different UI paradigms to be done well. A familiar brand and color and color scheme (like Autocad mobile) would help, but no complete necessity. Halo will also need a serious rewrite to even

  • Is this a free upgrade for anyone already running WP7?
    I guess the name, as silly as it is, makes sense now. Windows Phone is only on phones (as opposed tablets) and gets FREE upgrades. Windows 8 does not.
  • by caywen (942955) on Friday February 03, 2012 @03:08PM (#38918961)

    I'll bet this was in the roadmap for some time, and helps to explain why they do not offer a native SDK currently.

    I think this is great for their phone platform as the Windows 8 kernel is likely to be far more robust in the areas of thread scheduling and memory management. Given that Windows 8 demonstrably can execute even in 128MB RAM (http://windows8beta.com/2011/10/windows-8-runs-on-64mb-and-128-mb-ram), the resource impact probably isn't an issue.

  • So, viruses for Windows 8 will be also portable to WP8? :)

  • It took a while but maybe MS has pulled their head from their asses. If not it might at least be a glass belly button so they can see where they're going.

  • Windows 8, C#, .NET (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dan East (318230) on Friday February 03, 2012 @04:00PM (#38919721) Homepage Journal

    Windows Phone 7 is C# only, which is why I don't support the platform with my games (99% of my C++ code is shared between the iOS and Android builds, which is how it should be). So if Windows 8 developers can "reuse — by far — most of their code" does that mean Windows 8 is C# only too, or that Windows Phone 8 will allow 3rd part apps to be written in C++?

    IMO, if Windows Phone 8 doesn't support C++, it is dead in the water from the perspective of 3rd party apps. Only the really big players have the resources to completely rewrite their iOS or Android apps (mainly games, which usually aren't intimately tied to the native GUI) in C#. That is one of the reasons there aren't many apps for Windows Mobile 7, and certainly why there isn't as much commonality as you see between iOS and Android apps. If MS had half a brain they would allow development in C++, and include APIs like OpenGL ES which is supported by both Android and iOS, which will make it very easy for developers like me to release my games for Windows Mobile 8.

    • by jader3rd (2222716)
      I don't know what games you've written, but if there on par with Cut The Rope, it should be possible to use the same tools that they did to convert the game to javascript [cuttherope.ie] to be able to run on all platforms.
      • Is the conversion to JavaScript automatic, or is it one-way and by-hand? Say I find and fix a physics bug in the original Objective-C version of a game. Does my fix propagate to the JavaScript version?
    • by jimicus (737525)

      Wouldn't surprise me - I can't remember where I saw it now but I'm certain I've seen evidence that Microsoft seem convinced that "Multi-platform" means "Works on XP and Vista".

    • by puto (533470)

      8 supports c++

    • The 60,000 apps in their store written by both big development houses and one-man shops directly refutes your claim that nobody will write apps for them. But don't let reality get in the way of you being upset that they don't support apps written in the language you'd prefer.
      • by tepples (727027)
        So how do I write one app whose model layer works on both Windows Phone (C# only) and Android (Java preferred, C++ allowed through NDK) without paying hundreds of dollars a year for Mono? (If you don't know what a "model layer" is, Google "model view controller".)
        • You don't. You write two apps. If you don't want to be in the Windows marketplace, don't write an app for it. That has nothing to do with the OP's statement that nobody will write apps for MS because they can't use code they've used on Android or IOS. HIs statement was and is provably false.
          • by tepples (727027)

            You write two apps.

            I'm not two people.

            If you don't want to be in the Windows marketplace, don't write an app for it.

            When it's a choice of either Android or the Windows marketplace and not both, a lot of developers are choosing Android for its larger installed base.

  • Was this video "leaked" in the same way the first Nokia Windows phone was "leaked"? Meaning...

    1) Call a press conference
    2) Wait for media to assemble
    3) Halfway through, say "everyone turn off your cameras (wink wink) because we really don't want this next part to get out... (nudge nudge)"
    4) Hope like h*ll at least one reporter was too stupid to notice the play

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