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Microsoft Iphone

Did the Windows Phone 7 Bomb In the US? 609

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the now-wait-a-minute dept.
Thorfinn.au writes "Microsoft's new smartphone platform is off to what could be considered a slower start than expected in North America. That's according to The Street, which has released a report saying that the company sold some 40,000 units on its first day on the market. Early sales numbers from other phone platform launches include Apple's estimated 500,000 iPhones being snatched up during its launch weekend in 2007, and a million and a half G1 Android phones being bought up by T-Mobile subscribers in the phone's first six months." Do you know anyone with one of these phones? Me either.
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Did the Windows Phone 7 Bomb In the US?

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  • by eldavojohn (898314) * <[moc.liamg] [ta] [nhojovadle]> on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:45AM (#34195480) Journal
    You better bring something that no one else has. I'm still looking and waiting for something that WP7 devices are offering that isn't covered by Android and/or iOS. I understand that a hybrid is valuable when Android and iOS offer either extreme but ... can someone tell me what WP7 does that makes it unique? What are its selling points? Because from what I've read, there are no unique aspects to it.

    It's XBox all over again. They'll lose several billion on WP7 and write it off. WP8 will come out and after three years of shoving the platform down people's throats, they'll be a hard won 25% of the market. Don't get me wrong, I own an XBox 360 but how many years of mistakes did it take for them and how much did they lose on the original to come to that piece of market share?

    Why flush money down a losing venture until it starts to see a return? Because they can. And one of the many faults of capitalism is that those with a ton of money can do the stupidest shit and still come out okay.
    • by KiloByte (825081) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:49AM (#34195528)

      You are assuming that WP8 will magically be a success, with, as you say, "25% of the market". What are the reasons to think that? It's not like WP7 is the first or second of Microsoft's forays into phones -- just look at the aptly named WinCE or the recent Microsoft Kin flop.

    • by Barryke (772876)

      capitalism is that those with a ton of money can do the stupidest shit and still come out okay.

      Man i would like to be a capitalist. Because then i can.

    • by MemoryDragon (544441) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:50AM (#34195538)

      Yes really hardly surprising, and I was hoping for it, not because I wish Microsoft evil, but after years of dreadful ies on the desktop at least in the emerging mobile sektor webkit and its html5 implementation has become more or less the current defacto standard, so people finally can settle for a decent webapp programming experience. And then wham 3 years late Microsoft comes with its newest version of the os and tries to shove IE7 down the web developers throats. I have yet to meet a single web developer who was excited about the browser in WinMobile 7.
      If Microsoft had gotten its way then we would have had ie6 all over again in the mobile sector, where a significant portion had a browser which had the latest standards in and stubborn Microsoft users wanted to see the latest whizbang features on their rotten browser without even thinking about installing an alternative. We have been there the last 10 years, and I really do not want history to repeat itself!

    • by ducomputergeek (595742) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:03AM (#34195668)

      It depends, what is the long game? US companies have the unhealthy opinion of "What do you do for me next quarter?", but if the strategy is "Where do I want to be in 15 years?" (Europe) or "Where do I want to be in 50 years?" (Asia), then those losses are short term. And if you think the future is going to be some kind of media appliance over the next 10 - 15 years, yeah, you've lost a bunch of money on the first two generations, but the experience they've gained for the next 5 generations is invaluable.

      I recently bought a 360. I used to play at my friends house, but as we've gotten older and they've gotten married/had kids or moved elsewhere...

      Why did I buy a 360 over a Wii or PS3? Because that's what my friends had. Most of the people I know who bought Wii's seemed to have lost interest in the machines. Most use it more to stream Netflix than play games these days. And very few of my friends had a PS3 and most who did also had a 360.

      Now I know those numbers don't hold up on a global scale. Xbox has not been that popular outside of the US.

    • I didn't even know it was out yet. I guess I've mostly ignored the Win7 articles for a while now though, and wasn't psyched for it. I moved from years of Windows Mobile phones to Android a couple of months ago.

    • by WrongSizeGlass (838941) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:04AM (#34195684)

      You better bring something that no one else has.

      Exactly. You can't release a new phone that lacks device encryption for secure Exchange connections, static IP for WiFi, multitasking, cut and paste, and Flash support [infoworld.com] in the current market. Two or three years ago? Sure. But not now.

      • by bigredradio (631970) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @11:21AM (#34196508) Homepage Journal
        Is it an iPhone? If it's not an iPhone why would I want it? I want the one with the bigger GBs and the WiFis.
      • by bonch (38532) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @11:47AM (#34196832)

        WP7 doesn't even have a sockets API. You're expected to use HTTP for everything.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by KarmaMB84 (743001)
          Sockets are supposed to come in an OS update which will come from MS without carrier or hardware vendor involvement so we can be pretty sure every phone will get it. I'd assume it'll end up rolled in with either the copy and paste update (early 2011) or the multi-tasking update. I'm pretty sure it was a security policy issue preventing use of sockets on the WP7 .NET runtime.
    • by Jugalator (259273) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:05AM (#34195698) Journal

      You better bring something that no one else has.

      Yup... and especially not LESS.

      WP7 doesn't do multitasking with third party apps (only Microsoft's own apps has this advantage, go figure...), and doesn't even support encrypted Exchange connections. Yes, yes, Microsoft wrote Exchange, and even Windows Mobile 6.5 supported this! This will effectively shut out many enterprise users from using this phone if their servers reject unencrypted connections (and rightly so, in my opinion).

      It's funny when iPhone has support for encrypted Exchange connections in built-in software on both OS X (Mail) and iOS, and MS in neither Windows 7, nor Windows Phone 7. No, not even Windows Live Mail supports true Exchange connections -- it has to be set up to serve as an IMAP server. And Exchange is a behemoth in the enterprise market.

      Go go Ballmer with your strategic decisions.

      Or maybe it's their shareholders that need to go "strategic" on Ballmer...

      • The only thing I want to know is: Does Windows 7 Mobile allows me to squirt my pals?
      • by zippthorne (748122) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @11:03AM (#34196320) Journal

        They're not selling a phone, at least, not according to the ads. They're selling an excuse. Otherwise, how can it be "the phone for people who want to do other stuff than be using the phone."

        They practically come right out and imply that it's going to be as buggy as an un-patched windows 95 machine...

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          I see some MS-Bot came and marked you troll. But you're absolutely right. The commercials make no sense at all. Wouldn't a mobile device maker (and the carriers that carry it) want you to use the phone more?

          Hey guys we have this great phone that you won't use like all the other phones out there!

      • by DrXym (126579) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @01:12PM (#34197924)
        WP7 doesn't do multitasking with third party apps (only Microsoft's own apps has this advantage, go figure...),

        I bet that particular "feature" can be chalked up the the general craptitude of the .NET Compact Framework they've chosen to ship with. It probably uses too much memory, deadlocks, can't relinquish devices or otherwise does nasty things which assume only one running instance.

        All the 1st party apps are native, so they're not affected. 3rd party apps are expected to use the runtime so they are. Assuming the APIs that apps run against define a sensible life cycle I don't see any reason they couldn't fix it.

        But it does highlight how immature Windows Phone 7 is despite its glossy UI. Other red flags are things like it's inability to deal with removable storage as well as various things that were in 6.5 but not 7. Clearly these things can be (re)implemented but until they are, I would advise anyone thinking of picking up one of these phones to run a mile.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by phantomfive (622387)
        It's worse than that, it doesn't allow you to open a socket. The best you can do is query a web service. Ouch.

        It also doesn't let you run native code, you have to write games in XNA, so no hope for good graphics on the thing (unless you're EA or something).
    • Well I've heard complaints about Android and iOS and their stores and the ways each locks down apps etc, different OS versions (for Android). But I haven't heard anything bad about WP7! But then again at the time it hadn't been released yet... so that was probably why... >_>
      • by Andy Dodd (701) <.ude.llenroc. .ta. .7dta.> on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:44AM (#34196118) Homepage

        WM5/WM6 didn't really have significant lockdown, but as I understand it, the differences are:
        WP7 - Adds a shiny UI
        WP7 - Removes quite a few features/capabilities present in WM5/WM6 (see above regarding encrypted Exchange connections as an example)
        WP7 - Adds iPhone-style lockdown
        WP7 - Removes cut and paste (present in 5/6)
        WP7 - Removes multitasking (present in 5/6)

        The question is - how much of this crippling was an intentional design decision, and how much of it is Microsoft pulling a KDE 4?

        • C / C++ (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Dan East (318230) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @12:24PM (#34197304) Homepage Journal

          Developers! Developers! Developers! Oh, but they can only program in one language - C#. Just rewrite your codebases of hundreds of thousands of lines so you can port your apps to WP7! It'll be a lot of fun! Both iOS and Android support C / C++, and Android had to release a whole separate NDK to allow that. But yet they still released the importance of supporting one of the most prolific languages of all time.

          This reminds me of Sony, where they have so many conflicting interests that they can't do anything well. Why can't Sony DVD players play DivX*? Because Sony also makes movies, and DivX is the leading choice for distributing movies over the internet.

          So in this case MS has a programming language to push, a Silverlight platform to push, etc, etc. So it's C# only, to the detriment of WP7, in hopes that it will increase the popularity of C#.

          *Perhaps they have models that play DivX now? I haven't looked in the last few years.

    • by jayhawk88 (160512)

      It's XBox all over again. They'll lose several billion on WP7 and write it off. WP8 will come out and after three years of shoving the platform down people's throats, they'll be a hard won 25% of the market. Don't get me wrong, I own an XBox 360 but how many years of mistakes did it take for them and how much did they lose on the original to come to that piece of market share?

      This is exactly spot on. There will be enough integration and management benefits that businesses will (eventually) begin to migrate to it for corporate needs, more and more consumers will be talked into it by Verizon reps, and eventually they'll gain a foothold. Microsoft really doesn't have any other choice but to stick with it, and to take a beating with it early if necessary. Plan B is to just be a complete non-factor - or worse, non-participant - in the mobile world.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by rabbit994 (686936)

        There is no reason for IT departments to ask for it. It supports very small subset of ActiveSync policies but doesn't support turning off certain hardware features (like the camera) or encrypting all email/contacts/calendars on the device. I personally thought they should have targeted RIM and brought a usable phone that supports full range of ActiveSync security. If they had done that, IT departments would have loved to pitch Blackberries out the windows and replaced them with WP7 devices.

    • by Lumpy (12016)

      Xbox live integration is highly popular with all the Executives!

    • by Andy Dodd (701)

      Everything I've read about WP7 indicates that it's a step backwards in terms of flexibility and features from WM6.5.

      Yes, the UI is cleaner and shinier, but iPhone and Android also have very nice UIs, in addition to having more applications available and more capabilities than WP7.

    • by beelsebob (529313) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:51AM (#34196182)

      The thing is, they're comparing 1 day of W7 phones to 2 days of iPhone sales, and to 180 days of android sales.

      Normalised:
      W7: 40k
      iPhone: 300k
      Android: 8k

      Of course, I'm not suggesting that the distribution will actually be even, but this is *way* closer to the numbers than comparing 1 days sales to 6 months of sales.

    • by GodfatherofSoul (174979) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @01:18PM (#34198004)

      Microsoft was never late. They showed up 1/2 hour after the doors opened, sat in a corner, and alternately berated or ignored other party goers. Now, after alienating the whole room, they've gone home, put on a new dress, and come back thinking that no one will remember who they were. Sorry, bitch, I don't want to talk to you anymore.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      can someone tell me what WP7 does that makes it unique? What are its selling points? Because from what I've read, there are no unique aspects to it.

      Let me start by saying I have used iPhones pretty extensively, iPhone 4 included and had owned a Nexus One since it launched up until I got my WP7 phone yesterday. I am extremely impressed. What is unique about it? I think it is an evolutionary step in the right direction in regards to user interaction and the general workflow of dealing with this relatively new form factor (that being touch-screen only). The tiles motif is extremely informative and looks surprisingly good considering how simple and bas

  • by Pojut (1027544) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:48AM (#34195512) Homepage

    While I agree it's not as good as Microsoft probably hoped for, I'd like to point out that comparing it's sales to the iPhone (who was, for all intents and purposes, the first of its kind to go critical) and Android (the first solid competitor to the first smartphone to really go critical) isn't exactly fair.

    If anything, I'd say that 40,000 for the first day in an already crowded market isn't bad. Not great, but not bad.

    • by wvmarle (1070040) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:53AM (#34195572)

      No matter how you look at it 40,000 is still 40,000. That's a significant number of phones. The iPhone and Google's phones were hyped badly before launch; highly anticipated; no wonder they sold well.

      More fair would be to compare it to say a new Nokia or Sony Ericsson top-line model. I bet those companies would be quite happy to sell that number in the first day of sales. A not hyped, "yet another" kind of phone, that's what this is and that's what it should be compared to.

      But of course Apple's iPhone is the de-facto reference smartphone these days. No matter what you do, release a smartphone and it'll be compared to the iPhone first.

      • by dc29A (636871) * on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:07AM (#34195716)

        The iPhone and Google's phones were hyped badly before launch; highly anticipated; no wonder they sold well.

        Exactly. There was no hype at all around Windows Phone 7. None. Nada. Zilch. That explains all those TV commercials, launch parties, paid shills like Paul Thurrott and Co. touting Windows 7 Phone as the second coming of Zeus.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by falldeaf (968657)
          Those tv commercials are so awful, they make no sense. I think they're saying people are too fascinated and in love with their phone, and win7 phones are going to fix that for you.... wait, what? And launch parties?... Like that travesty for windows vista? I thought Microsoft was supposed to be a juggernaut of advertising, maybe their strength is advertising to corporate types.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by wvmarle (1070040)

            [P]eople are too fascinated and in love with their phone, and win7 phones are going to fix that for you.... wait, what?

            Somehow I don't see that as a way to sell your product, when you tell it'll make you hate your phone.

          • by amiga3D (567632) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @12:18PM (#34197242)

            Microsoft never really needed for it's advertising to be effective. When they operated out of a virtual monopoly they just spent advertising dollars to brag on themselves. Their idea seemed to be that the masses were going to have to buy it anyway, all they had to do was pat themselves on the back. This stuff of having to compete with aggressive competitors is all new to them.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by adisakp (705706)

            Those tv commercials are so awful, they make no sense. I think they're saying people are too fascinated and in love with their phone, and win7 phones are going to fix that for you.... wait, what? .

            Exactly, you're gonna have Win Phone 7 so much you won't want to use your phone.
            If a phone actually got you in and out of social apps and done with messages quicker, all it would do is enable the thumb-typing generation to send *MORE* messages in the same amount of time, not spend less time on their phhones. It's possible that they would spend even more time on the phone since it would be more convenient than before.

        • by Tom (822) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @11:21AM (#34196510) Homepage Journal

          touting Windows 7 Phone as the second coming of Zune.

          There, fixed that for you.

      • by Joce640k (829181)

        Only the "die hards" buy it on the first day, the real dyed-in-the-wool fanbois who'll buy anything with "Windows 7" written on it.

        The real test is how many 'normal' people buy it in the next year.

    • I'm sorry, but that has got to be one of the sillier things I've read here on /. There's nothing special about this other than the fact that it's a Microsoft product. In the current smart phone market, more is expected of a product than that.
    • by Legion303 (97901)

      Not only that, but the article compares launch day numbers to launch weekend numbers to 6-month sales numbers. that doesn't really tell me anything.

    • by jittles (1613415) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:07AM (#34195726)

      I think it's not fair to make the comparison just because AT&T didn't bother to supply their stores with anything. I have a friend who took the day off work to wait in line and buy one. He had called the store and asked them if he needed to get in early and they told them they had plenty of phones in stock and that he could come in any time and buy one. He got there an hour before the store opened and found out that the AT&T corporate store had 2 phones in stock. That's right. 2. Now maybe that's all the demand they thought they'd get but that store was sold out the second the store opened.

      I don't think AT&T has any interest in offering serious competition to the iPhone. That's why all their android phones are pretty crappy compared to T-Mobile, Sprint or Verizon.

      • by Pojut (1027544)

        I don't think AT&T has any interest in offering serious competition to the iPhone. That's why all their android phones are pretty crappy compared to T-Mobile, Sprint or Verizon.

        pretty much. A good friend of mine is on AT&T, and just a couple of weeks ago he was asking me about which Android phone he should get. I told him "if you insist on staying with AT&T, just get an iPhone 4. If you really want an Android phone, go with a different carrier."

      • I think it's not fair to make the comparison just because AT&T didn't bother to supply their stores with anything.

        Google says it's activating 200,000 [computerworld.com] androids a day and Apple sold 270,000 iphones on it's first day plus 600,000 pre-orders. At this rate, MS will NEVER CATCH UP. No, they won't. All the excuses you all are making for MS fail to make up for the basic math here and the reasons for why this happened are irrelevant. The bottom line is that the $100 million ad campaign MS just bought will

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dkleinsc (563838)

      I'm no fan of Microsoft, but I'm also not one to judge a technology on its first day or first week of sales. For one very specific reason - nobody's used it for any significant length of time yet.

      It takes a while to determine if some technology is really really nice, or a complete piece of crap. If you base your judgment on a slick demo plus 5 minutes of use, you're in fact no better than the infamous PHB who decides to use some horrible technology due to a really good sales pitch. Admins generally need a g

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      I disagree, I don't believe 40,000 is a "okay" day. I don't know anything about the number of these phones that are out there, but I what I could find briefly is for distributors so far are AT&T [microsoft.com], the same company that is providing service for the iphone, amazon [amazon.com], the world's largest on-line distributor, AND Best Buy [dailytech.com] a huge brick-and-mortar chain of stores. Between them, they sold 40,000 units whereas the iphone sold 270,000 [socialmediaseo.net] for the same period, almost SEVEN times as many and just from Apple and AT
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        One thing that I forgot: As far as I can tell, these numbers neglect pre-orders. For the iphone, if you include pre-orders I think it will only increase the gap because they're surely above the one million mark.

        I think if you want to make a penetration into a crowded market, you've got not just do as well as the competition, you've got to do a lot better than the competition. Remember: cell phones and mp3 players were supposedly a "crowded market" too when Apple released theirs.
  • by MrHanky (141717) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:48AM (#34195514) Homepage Journal

    At this moment, declaring Windows Phone 7 a flop is just FUD.

  • by JSBiff (87824) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:49AM (#34195530) Journal

    Another fabulous slashdot article summary - comparing the sales on the first day of the WP7 phone with 6 months of sales for the G1? Seriously? I'm no Microsoft fanboy (I've got a G1 sitting on my desk 8 inches from me right now), but c'mon. It would be much more interesting to know how many G1's were sold the first day, the first week, and the first month, and compare that to WP7.

    • by UnknowingFool (672806) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:11AM (#34195770)

      Well a few things to put into perspective. 40,000 is the reported number by a third party. That number may not be correct. The actual number may be higher or lower.

      The second thing is that the G1 was one model from one manufacturer. By reports, there were 9 WP7 phones from several different manufacturers. Initially there were reports that some places were "sold out". If the number is correct then there was not a large initial supply. With 9 different models, it's hard to believe the manufacturers released less than 6,000 units per model.

      The discrepancy might be that MS has reserved one for every one of its employees. So that 90,000 additional and may have created an artificial scarcity not driven by consumer demand.

  • Me either. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Threni (635302) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:50AM (#34195540)

    Neither?

  • I *do* know someone with a Windows Phone 7 phone.

    It was bought for them by their work.

    Do I know anyone who has bought one by personal choice? Not yet...

  • Well... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nametaken (610866) * on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:51AM (#34195558)

    Say what you will about Microsoft but I don't think they actually had expectations of the things flying off the shelf in the first few days. They know they're re-entering a brutal market with a lot of very good products and very strong competitors.

    • Maybe privately but publicly, by some reports, MS is spending $400 million on the WP7. With that kind of money, you'd think they could get more than 40,000 on opening day if the number is correct. One analyst has said the problem might be they launched on Monday instead of Friday or Saturday which is against the prevailing wisdom. This weekend's sales might be more indicative.
  • Half a dozen people with iPhones, at least nine friends and family with Androids (including me), and nobody with Windows Mobile since we went from the HTC Moguls (WM6.1) to Epic 4Gs on launch day (8/31). The Mogul was a good phone, but the Epic (and Android) blows it away. From what I've seen of Microsoft's latest mobile OS in their commercials (large, white-on-blue buttons for a few categories, to start), I'm not interested. It looks like one of those large-button old-school phones. I'm a techie and a fan
    • by js3 (319268)

      They are hard to get. On tuesday nobody could find one, most stores don't even know when they will get them in stock, even if you ordered they won't arrive until next week. Too early to conclude anything. I attended an MS conference on tuesday and they only had like 4 in total.. and there where hundereds of people there including MS employess.. can't find em, can't buy em.

  • Not enough units (Score:5, Informative)

    by TheBiGW (982686) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:55AM (#34195582)
    Apparently most stores only got 10 or so units and they sold out immediately. Pretty hard to sell more units of something if you don't have the stock.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by spd_rcr (537511)

      We bought my wife's at Costco, where they were only given 5 of the Samsung Focus' for launch and we stood in line to get it. Costco is definitely the place to buy one 'tho, best prices, they waive the activation fees, and throw in some extras (mostly junk, but it did include a car charger).
      I'm just itching to see what the second round of hardware is going to offer, but after watching my wife play with hers for the last 3 days, I'm definitely trading in my iphone, the ads to not do the phone justice. I'm not

  • The commercials say WP7 phones don't make you want to use them extensively. It's true, I skipped buying one!
  • In WP7, to a large extent they have copied all the shortcomings of the original iphone OS.
    From what I've heard, it doesnt have true multitasking, proper copy paste, app installations from non trusted sources,etc -- similar shortcomings like the original iPhone
    Its almost as if they tried to copy iPhone , but copied the original one rather than iPhone 4.
    Also, why is this in the Apple category??
    And /. is giving me "unknown error" for submission. Any ideas why?(missed getting 1st comment :( )
  • Failed launch (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:56AM (#34195600)

    Maybe its due to the fact that theres handset shortages everywhere and partner staff were not trained correctly, their canadian launch was abysmal, i have not seen any adds on tv for it at all here in canada, theres no advertising in their launch partner stores like telus, bell and rogers, on launch day the only store that had anything in ontario was telus flagship store in toronto and they only had the htc surround which almost no one likes, i called several telus stores in london ontario where i am, and most dident know when they were getting them, they received shipment on the second day of launch but

    so far were on the 4th day and the lg optimus 7 is nowhere to be found, acording to posts on the net the situation is the same at bell and rogers with staff either not knowing what windows phone 7 is or not very interested in selling it, so it sounds like ms at least in canada is not pushing its launch partners to get any displays out or doing a very good job in getting interest going, but hey just last night alone i saw 5 kinect adds in one hour, that speaks where their priorities lie.

  • by delire (809063) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:57AM (#34195602)
    I have an N900, run GNU/Linux at both home and work and will probably by an HTC Android phone sooner than later. Nonetheless the UI on the Windows Phone 7 looks pretty lovely to me. I think MS has done a fine job.

    The question these days of course is not what the phone can do OOTB, but what you can install on it later. AFAIK there isn't much of an 'app ecosystem' for the platform. They're also charging device manufacturers a license fee to ship with the OS, which isn't smart in a world rapidly flowing with Android phones. I wouldn't ring the death bell just yet though - it seems the market's changing pretty fast with the iPhone losing it's fashionable appeal here in the EU now that road-workers, plumbers and unemployed single fathers have the things.

    Market differentiation allows for consumer individuation - something Apple's aesthetic homogeneity, doesn't offer. Think Similar (TM).
    • by gmuslera (3436)
      If you got used to the N900, trying a windows phone the "but i can't do this things at once?" question will hit your head like a brick the first day...and it will bleed. You have the wrong culture to enjoy those phones now, would be like putting a few nice toys inside a baby cage
  • by dwightk (415372) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @09:59AM (#34195618) Homepage Journal

    I love the comparison of First day :: Launch Weekend :: First 6 Months

  • Too little, too late.
  • The smartphone market is flooded and the Win7 phones are too late and too expensive.
    Microsoft would be smart to subsidize the cost of the phones (which are only on AT&T and T-Mobile) and give it away for free. Then, it might make an impact.
  • He's on it like Donkey Kong.

  • Why would anyone expect anything different? My expectation for Windows Phone 7 is that it will have slow uptake, but, if it is a good phone OS (and not junk like WinCE, which actually did pretty well for awhile), it will gradually increase market share with very few people realizing that that is what they are running. There will be four groups of people: "I've got an Iphone", "My phone runs Android", "I've got a BLackberry", and "I don't know what OS my phone runs". The last group will be composed primaril
  • by DdJ (10790) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:08AM (#34195738) Homepage Journal

    If I could get one of these in a PDA-like form instead of phone-like, for under $300, I'd get one, if for no other reason than compatibility testing, development, and the XBox Live integration.

    But I am not going to replace my phone at this time.

    And that's a real key point to remember, there. Unlike many consumer electronic devices, there are huge barriers to getting a new phone as soon as it comes on the market. Contracts to not all expire at the same time. Check for sales numbers on the 2-year anniversary of the release of previous popular phones (like the iPhone 3Gs for example), and check for sales numbers after a full year of peoples' contracts expiring, and then we'll talk.

    Myself, I have no idea if WP7 will succeed, but I think it's got a shot, especially if they take certain actions that they haven't taken yet (eg. extend the "indy marketplace" concept from the XBox to WP7, and STOP PUSHING ZUNE BRANDING SO HARD).

  • People are not excited because past versions of their OS have had such serious issues, that why would people want to put themselves through that again?

    I knew so many people that switched to Android, the Palm Pre, and the iPhone from a Windows Phone because they got tired of rebooting their phone on a daily basis.

  • My buying experience (Score:5, Informative)

    by plasmana (984377) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:14AM (#34195806)
    I arrived at AT&T 10 minutes after they opened and they were sold out the 4 phones they had. I was the first person to get on the waiting list. There were 5 people behind me waiting to get on the list. They did receive one more phone that day and I got it. I suspect the demand was higher that day than the available inventory. As for the phone, I love it. Showed it to my wife and kids (14 & 16). The kids raved about it, and my wife (not a technology nerd) was surprised she like it so much versus her iPhone (3G). The UI is very slick, usable and responsive. This is not your typical Microsoft version 1 product. It feels a lot more like it came from a first class consumer electronics company than a business software company.
    • by Eponymous Coward (6097) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:59AM (#34196280)

      This is not your typical Microsoft version 1 product

      Does everybody have amnesia? Microsoft has been making smartphones for a long time now. Calling this a version one product would be like calling Vista a version 1 product. It's significantly different from it's ancestors, but it has ancestors. I would hope they learned something along the way.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by saleenS281 (859657)
        It's a complete re-write from scratch. It is indeed a 1.0 product. You might as well say Windows 1.0 wasn't 1.0 because they had previously been making DOS. The two platforms share nearly nothing in common beyond the "Windows" branding.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by cbhacking (979169)

        Um, no, it is a v1 product. It comes from a company that has previously shipped products meant for the same class of task (OS for a phone), but that doesn't mean it has ancestors. The UI is totally new, built from scratch. That's what people are seeing and responding to.

        You have to go clear down to the kernel to find anything much in common with WinMo, and even there it's received a huge degree of improvement. Would you call the first Android phones not a "v1" product just because Google obviously took less

  • With visionaries like this [longbets.org] working in Microsoft research, it is no wonder why Microsoft keeps missing the next big technology wave.
  • I don't. Clearly it's a failure.

  • by grasshoppa (657393) <skennedy@t[ ]-co.org ['pno' in gap]> on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:41AM (#34196090) Homepage

    ...and it never was. It's about long term sales. MS is late to the game, when the market is already approaching optimal saturation. For them, they won't see the huge initial growth that the other platforms did.

    What they are banking on, and what I am watching for, is their staying power. If MS has learned anything, it's patience. They have the war chest and experience to play the "slow and steady" game.

    This assumes that they have something unique to offer. I see them as being in one of the best positions to challenge RIM ( I wish to $diety SOMEONE would. Blackberries suck ass, and the server is only fun to administrate if you are a masochist ).

  • by at_slashdot (674436) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @10:51AM (#34196180)

    naming your phone OS after an OS that people use only because they have to (yeah, I know Win 7 is better than Vista, but what isn't).

    Observe that even though Mac OS X has a better image than Windows nobody calls iPhone OS X or even iPhone iOS in marketing. Sure, Microsoft makes only the OS, but they should have come up with a different name, Google uses "Android" for example, if they used "Linux" their success would probably be different.

  • by Bad Mamba Jamba (941082) on Thursday November 11, 2010 @11:34AM (#34196676)
    I own one of those 40k units - a Samsung Focus to be specific. I've waited a year for MS to get Win7 out so I could compare iOS, Android, and Win7 before upgrading my phone. I have to say, after 2 days so far I love Win7. I will also say that feature wise it is still behind iOS and Android on some pretty basic features. More on that in a sec.

    We all have different needs and wants from our devices so to help you understand my angle; I am an occasional business traveler who enjoys being connected to email, can access maps and driving directions, restaurant and business information nearby, read various Office documents, and generally stay in touch. I am also a hobby programmer and enjoy writing little utility apps for my personal use. I am not a heavy app downloader - my iPhone had all of 20 installed apps. I am a gamer but generally enjoy puzzle and strategy games over FPS or other games that demand heavy real-time input. I do not own an XBox (PS3 for me). I do not use Facebook or Twitter in any real capacity. I tried, and I just don't get it. And finally I am a HUGE music lover. I'm the guy that still buys CDs for the artwork and rips them at higher bitrates. I'm always on the lookout for something new. I also rip all of my DVDs (movies and TV) so I can take them on travel and watch them on the plane.

    If you picked up on the iPhone comment above your first question might be why I considered defecting? The simple answer is iTunes. I've had many minor glitches and nags with iTunes over the years, however the recent move of my music and movie library to a NAS was so painful it was the last straw for iTunes.

    So what's to like about Win7?

    • First and foremost Win7 was really easy to learn and figure out. Navigation was a little mystifying at first, but after a few minutes I had it figured out. Within a couple of hours I had the whole phone explored and setup. And setup was also MEGA easy.
    • One word - ZUNE. Unlike iTunes it was easy to setup, let me import anything I want, and I love the subscription service. I had Zune on my PC before I had any kind of mobile Zune player. Unlike iTunes, I get my music through Zune in MP3 format, and I'm free to use it how I want. I'll also add it's visually a nice experience. The experience translates to the Win7 phone just as well. Oh and that setup problem I had with iTunes. Zune was more than happy to adjust itself to my music library on my new NAS without bitching. I'll also add the Zune SW multitasks better - iTunes tends to get sluggish and freeze up if you're importing movies or a lot of music. Zune seamlessly handles it in the background.
    • WIRELESS SYNC - something Apple has continually blocked. I'm happy to say if my phone is plugged in for 10 minutes on AC power and sees my Zune server it will sync over 802.11.
    • Mobile Office - an essential for me as my biz is an MS shop. Online versions of office are available through Windows Live so you don't even have to buy a PC version of Office if you don't want to. No clue if it will work on Mac tho.
    • 4" AMOLED - actually more the phone than Win7 but I'll say Win7 makes full use of the this gorgeous screen
    • It works well as a phone.
    • Voice commands - I feel silly talking to my phone but when I'm driving and I want to find a Starbucks or something it actually works well. Disclaimer - I am an American, and I speak with a "Hollywood accent" which is to say most people would say I don't have an accent.
    • Support for my work calendar off Exchange, AND a Windows Live calendar so I can keep my personal and work lives separate. Not necessarily unique to Win7 but they did a beautiul job integrating everything together.
    • Free development tools that work really well. I did C/C++ development for many years, then I did Java for a few years, and I've been doing C# for a while now. When I can just download the free tools and write an simple application in a few minutes that speaks volumes. As far as I'm concerned MS still makes the best develop
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      I own a Zune HD and I've been wanting a Windows Phone since I learned they would be using the same interface. I also own an iPad, and I am constantly frustrated with iTunes compared to the Zune software. Zune pass, Zune software, wireless sync, metro UI, office integration, and xbox integration are the main reasons I am in the market for WP7.

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