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Comments: 309 +- Mobile: Wikileaks Publishes 500,000 9/11 Pager Messages on Wednesday November 25, @09:39AM
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An anonymous reader writes "Wikileaks is preparing to release 500,000 intercepted pager messages from a 24-hour period encompassing the September 11 terrorist attacks. The messages show emergency services springing into action and computer systems sending automated messages as buildings collapse. Wikileaks implies this data came from an organised collection effort."
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Submission: Wikileaks publishes 500,000 9/11 pager messages by Anonymous Coward
Politics: US Congressman Announces Plans To Probe Wikileaks 311 comments
IT: Wikileaks Needs Help, and Not Just Money 134 comments
One person's error is another person's data.
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So much raw data (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So much raw data (Score:5, Informative)
Every conspircay theorist in the world just simultaneously orgasmed. All those messages to pick through; I'm sure they'll be able to prove it was the US Government/Al-Qaeda/Joseph Fritzel/The Cookie Monster/Scientologists all along.
The NORAD tapes, which were released long ago proved that there was a conspiracy by The Pentagon to lie to the 9/11 Commission and the American people. The 9/11 Commission had a closed meeting deciding whether or not to charge Air Force officials with perjury but chose not to because "it wouldn't be good for the country."
John Farmer, senior counsel on the 9/11 Commission said, "at some level of the government, at some point in time...there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened [during 9/11]"
6 of the 10 Commissioners have come out saying that they were lied to and that the report is not accurate.
http://patriotsquestion911.com/ [patriotsquestion911.com]
“More than one-quarter of all footnotes in the 9/11 Report refer to CIA interrogations of al Qaeda operatives subjected to the now-controversial interrogation techniques,” writes former NBC producer Robert Windrem in The Daily Beast. [thedailybeast.com] “In fact, information derived from the interrogations was central to the 9/11 Report’s most critical chapters, those on the planning and execution of the attacks.”
We've been lied to about 9/11 from day one. It needs to be investigated further. If 6 out of the 10 Commissioners are distancing themselves from the report by saying they were lied to something isn't right. Burying your head deeper into the sand won't help.
Parent
Re:So much raw data (Score:5, Insightful)
A. A concerted effort by the Government and Department of Defence, and related military bodies conspiring together to launch an attack on the US people in order to further the aims of the Government and selected private corporations and individuals.
Or...
B. A concerted effort by members of the Government and Department of Defence, and related military bodies to cover up their own inadequecies in being able to deal with an attack by a small number of persons against several targets using simplistic weapons, causing a massive over reaction over the next few years, and resulting in the inability of the largest military might in the world to subdue a country that has barely hit the 19th Century.
Yes, there probably was a lie surrounding 9/11, but its almost certainly not the juicy one people are fantasising about...
Parent
Re:So much raw data (Score:5, Interesting)
Can't I have both?
Parent
The middle (Score:3, Interesting)
Read the Project for a New American Century's statement of principles here [newamericancentury.org]. Now read the PNAC letter to Clinton on Iraq here [newamericancentury.org]. Note that Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Jeb are all big supporters. Now read about their plans here [newamericancentury.org].
The choice quote is: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."
My theory is that they had intelligence stating that the attack was going
Reichstag would vote A (Score:5, Insightful)
From Wikipedia: The Reichstag fire... is seen as pivotal in the establishment of Nazi Germany.
Don't think gov'ts now aren't capable of the same thing, or that they aren't doing it.
But then it's much more comfortable to bury one's head in the sand.
Parent
Re:So much raw data (Score:5, Informative)
The nine mile debris field consisted of bits of paper which may or may not have been from the flight when it impacted in the field.
Further, that nine mile figure is bogus. People used MapQuest to find the distance between the crash site and the supposed debris field. Sure, nine miles if you drive by road, but roughly 2.5 miles in a straight line.
The debris field WAS NOT composed of engine parts, seats, body parts or anything else heavier than a piece of paper.
Your friend is also an idiot as there are nearly a dozen eyewitnesses [debunk911myths.org] to the plane coming down, some of which watched the plane, intact, nose dive into the ground. Had the plane been shot down, it would have displayed some semblance of damage including smoke and/or fire trailing from it. Not one eyewitness described seeing anything of the sort.
End of story, full stop.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You scared me for a second with your username. I thought I had posted that without even realizing it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
that's nice (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure this will lead to rational debate, as well as this information being added to our view of those tragic events as a whole and will finally lay to bed some of the misconceptions that have surrounded the events of 9/11, rather than becoming the source for thousands of snippets of information that will get used in barely contextualized, ill-thought out, and poorly worded conspiracy theories.
Also, when you bring me my pony, make sure it's pink.
Re:that's nice (Score:5, Interesting)
I imagine a whole lot of people are going to be pissed when they learn that the data was intercepted back in 2001.
Parent
Re:that's nice (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Good Move (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd question the ethics of it. The very existence of this database is of huge political and social importance, thus falling under Wikileaks' remit, but by putting it into the public domain they're infringing the privacy of the citizens involved even further. You can bet all the TLAs, not to mention police forces, lawyers, insurance companies, and so on are having fun with it now it's in public view.
Mmmm (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good Move (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Good Move (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd question the ethics of it. The very existence of this database is of huge political and social importance, thus falling under Wikileaks' remit, but by putting it into the public domain they're infringing the privacy of the citizens involved even further. You can bet all the TLAs, not to mention police forces, lawyers, insurance companies, and so on are having fun with it now it's in public view.
Exactly- and especially true when you browse through and see messages like " " Andre-are you at work today? Gimme a call - 301-555-5555. Gerry". (number obviously changed in my repost) There's no doubt that these people will be targeted for 9/11-related scams and other obnoxious behavior in short order. You think Gerry's not already getting a call from someone looking to cash in, or who just thinks they're being funny?
If this list were filtered so that it was just automated systems, non-personal, etc , that's fine -- but doing it in this way is just opening the door for all the abuse and stupidity that we're capable of. As it is - it's a gross breach of privacy, published in a way that ensures that there will be no accountability for any abuse of personal information found in it.
Parent
Who needs to make backups anymore? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Who needs to make backups anymore? (Score:5, Funny)
I tag all my posts and emails with a serial # so that if I lose any, I can just ask the NSA and by having the serial # handy, it makes their jobs all that much easier.
(#327382)
Parent
Self aware computer systems? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Self aware computer systems? (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, I was working at Reuters in London at the time and the first we knew of the disaster was an automated alert from our trading system saying that Merrylls and APM had gone fully offline (these types of systems very very rarely go offline). At the same moment, one of the data feeds went DR (DataScope I think) - it had its DR facility in the other tower and so only lasted a short time before going off for good.
Parent
It's not just 9/11 related pager messages (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages (Score:4, Insightful)
This one bothers me a bit!
2001-09-11 10:20:40 Skytel [002840776] C ALPHA Hi, I need you to call me to tell me you are ok. Everyone is calling me and is very worried about you! If you can't get thru, can you send me an email or a fax or something. Just worried about you and wish you
Parent
Re:It's not just 9/11 related pager messages (Score:4, Interesting)
2001-09-11 10:20:42 Skytel [002840776] C ALPHA were home! I love you! T
Found the rest.
Parent
Pagers were working? (Score:5, Informative)
I thought pagers used the cell networks a la text messages; indeed, I thought a pager was essentially a dedicated text message device.
I was in NYC on Sept 11 and the only thing that *was* working that day was the Internet...phones, both land line and cell were unavailable. We were trying to contact my brother-in-law who lived in Manhattan (we were in Brooklyn) and every phone we tried, including the pay phone down the street (still had 'em back then...) gave us the "fast busy signal", indicating "We didn't even try to make your call..."
So we spent the rest of the day IM'ing people as that was the only way to verify who was where. Bad times...bad times.
I Can't Wait... (Score:5, Funny)
For that text pager message: "Finished arming the detonating device, Herr Cheney".
Classless post (Score:4, Funny)
7 Skytel [002380116] B ALPHA Frank.Heisler@ubsw.com|FW: Exchange IT Event - CANCELLED| -----Original Message----- From: Bucher, Gisela Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:54 PM To: DL-Perot-STAM-Permanent Cc: Subject: Exchange IT Event - CANCELLED
This confuses me greatly. On one hand I utterly despise the terrorists for what they did...but I really hate Exchange too...
I don't think it's complete (Score:5, Interesting)
I searched a whole bunch of these for the word "fuck" and couldn't find a single instance. I find it hard to believe that nobody got a page from their girl/boy friend saying why don't you come over and fuck me or a message saying holy fuck a plane just hit the WTC.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You still see them in the medical community (ER docs, nurses, etc), but that's about the only place I ever seen them nowadays.
Re:News to me (Score:5, Interesting)
I still see them in use for certain IT folks in the defense industry. The key is that they will permit them into secure facilities, as the old one-way versions cannot transmit.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:News to me (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:News to me (Score:4, Informative)
There are no dead zones
Not true. They're RF devices and suffer the same limitations as any other radio receiver. With most pagers, they are not bidirectional and so if you are in a dead zone the person sending the message does not get any notification that the delivery failed or was delayed.
Parent
Re:News to me (Score:5, Insightful)
Pagers can be more reliable than TM. And a lot of people turn off their cell phone when they are sleeping. Ringing cell phones often aren't loud enough to wake you up anyway. Not everyone has a cell phone. (I don't) A lot of automated systems are still only able to do a broadcast-style alert to multiple pagers, not text messaging. (volunteer fire departments are good examples) Pagers can run a month or more on a single AA battery which increases their reliability. Lots of reasons to stick with pagers.
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
Ringing cell phones often aren't loud enough to wake you up anyway.
Some are. Mine is. I used to have an old LG phone that sounded exactly like an old fashioned landline phone, the kind with a real bell in it. It was loud enough to wake you up, too.
I use my phone for an alarm clock.
Re:News to me (Score:5, Funny)
Oh. You're THAT guy.
Parent
Re:News to me (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:News to me (Score:4, Informative)
At one place I worked years ago, we used pagers. As cell phones became more popular, we stared switching over to them. Every once in a while, we'd test to see which ones worked better. Text messages emailed to the phones were usually faster than the alphanumeric pagers. In time, we ditched the pagers entirely, since they were slower to receive, and we felt silly carrying around too many devices.
For completeness of coverage, the messages were sent to 5 different people via two methods each. Usually it was email and phone. If there was an emergency, and no admins checked in, the phone calls started going out. Most events were handled in 5 minutes, even if the primary person was unavailable. That wasn't bad considering not everything happened during normal working hours. Actually, most emergencies didn't happen during normal working hours. That would have made them too easy. :)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
SMS is unreliable? Where?
Unreliable as in you get no guarantees if and when a message will actually be delivered. Try to find a carrier anywhere that offers you a contract with an SLA on SMS delivery. Granted, you won't often run into problems with SMS, but if you are bound by an SLA with a customer, you'd better have your underpinning contracts (yay for ITIL terminology) at the same level as that SLA.
Re:News to me (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:News to me (Score:4, Interesting)
This, too, seems to be a peculiarly US problem. I've heard of many many more lost and delayed SMSs in the US than in Europe. Perhaps that's because Europe has been making significant use of text messaging for far longer, so the systems there are now more reliable?
Perhaps US users just have lower expectations, so cell networks can get away with such things?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I've never met anyone who had a pager, I've never seen a pager in real life or heard of anyone using one outside the US.
Your experience must be limited to geographical areas with pervasive cell network coverage.
I live in an area of NH with moderate coverage, but prefer to head up to the mountains for R&R. But I'm on-call, so I carry a pager, it works nearly everywhere (cell phone start working again well above tree-line).
I use procmail to duplicate messages to pager + SMS - between the two coverage is
Re:News to me (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:News to me (Score:5, Insightful)
Pagers still exist?
These are texts and pages from 9/11/2001, which is some 8 years ago.
Parent
Lizards? (Score:5, Informative)
What next 7 foot lizards are real now?
Yes. [wikipedia.org]
Parent
Re:Lizards? (Score:5, Funny)
What next 7 foot lizards are real now?
Yes. [wikipedia.org]
Think you're mistaken; they've only got four feet.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Tech related: intercepted private pager messages from a variety of sources. Someone managed to collate these en-masse and distribute them.
Politically related (Slashdot has a politics section): suggestion of interception and storage of pager messages on a grand scale beyond that needed for operational reasons (this is 24-hours worth, don't forget, from several sources).
Privacy related: A release of otherwise private information, including private communications between ordinary people, presumably gathered direct from telco's, to a website known for doing that with politically-sensitive material. If nothing else, this shows you where your "private communications" end up when you're texting something erotic to your girlfriend... not "analysed", not "anonymised", just saved onto a disk somewhere at the telco for a random person to collect and leak to the Internet.
I think it's relevant and I have zero interest in 9/11, conspiracy theories, or even most of the things the US does.
Parent
Re:News For Nerds Anyone??!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Can there be moderation for editors please? I love how comments can be modded to oblivion, but useless editors and stories can't.
If you log in then you can hide stories from particular editors (like that newbie CmdrTaco). Also, you have the chance to mod a story down using the Firehose [slashdot.org] before it gets approved.
Finally, there is also the option of just not clicking on the link if you are not interested in the story. Woah, I've gone too far there!
Parent