Pickens writes "Tom Bradley reports in PC World that the new Motorola Droid smartphone will cost users $199.99 with a 2-year contract, with an additional $30 per month for the mandatory 'unlimited' data plan that has a monthly cap of 5Gb. Verizon will charge $50 for each additional gigabyte over the 5Gb limit on the unlimited data plan. Verizon has confirmed that tethering will cost another $30 per month for an additional unlimited data plan that is also limited to 5Gb. If you want tethering you will pay $60 above and beyond the monthly contract for service for an 'unlimited' 10Gb of data per month, and if you plan on connecting with an Microsoft Exchange email account you have to pay another $15 a month. 'Verizon seems to be doing everything it can to make the Droid as unappealing as possible by nickel and diming customers so that actually using it is not cost-effective,' writes Bradley. 'After all of the hype around Verizon's marketing efforts, and generally favorable reviews of the Motorola Droid, users that rush out to get the new device may be in for a shock.' Droid users will have to wait until sometime in 2010 for tethering. 'That service is on our schedule for next year,' says Verizon spokeswoman Brenda Raney. The delay is because 'the service has to be tested on the phone so until we know it works, we don't offer the service. It is not uncommon for us to introduce the phone and continue to test the service and offer it later.'"
couldn't some group of americans sue the shit out of dumbass companies who use misleading marketing - calling something with a cap "unlimited" should result in their whole marketing department fired and any manager who approved it receiving hefty financial fine.
That was tried in the UK with ADSL providers advertising "unlimited" broadband. They got around it by reclassifying exactly what is unlimited - it is now "unlimited access" so at any time 24/7/365.25 you can have access, but it isn't unlimited bandwidth.
Sue all you like - they'll find a loop-hole somewhere and the only people to really gain will be the lawyers.
The only real way to fix the current advertising problems is to educate the general public to not fall for stupendously unrealistic claims in advertising - unfortunately the general public seem somewhat immune to the effects of such education probably because critical thinking doesn't appear to be fashionable.
That was tried in the UK with ADSL providers advertising "unlimited" broadband. They got around it by reclassifying exactly what is unlimited - it is now "unlimited access" so at any time 24/7/365.25 you can have access, but it isn't unlimited bandwidth.
Except that the website does not advertise "unlimited access". The text on the website reads, and I quote, "Unlimited Data for Mobile Web and Get it Now/Media Center".
It says quite clearly, "unlimited data". I know that Verizon [and the other telcos] will happily fight and say there's fine print somewhere that says otherwise, but please, there *HAS* to be some lawyer out there who's good enough to get a judge to realize that this is nothing but false advertising, and some pretty obvious bait-and-switch tactics.
"Unlimited Data for Mobile Web and Get it Now/Media Center".
They are called "Mobile Web" and "GetItNow" because they are "custom connections", neither are traditional broadband connections and are subject to the rules the "offerer" decides to apply. Smoke and mirrors and half-truths, sure. That's what they do.
That's why the Droid marketing was so short on facts and details before the release, they're playing it so the emotional consumers will buy it up before they realize they're getting gouged every month for the next two years(or pay the $300+ termination). Sue all you want, the lawyers will take your money faster than VZW will... hard to believe, but true.
Oh goody, so instead of the stress of a lawsuit with a huge telco, I wait 3 years and get a coupon good for "$10 off my next Verizon phone purchase", while the law firm makes $50M in fees and contingency?
I am a Verizon Wireless customer. They make "horrible customer service" sound like something to aspire to.
They haven't been able to get my bill "right" for months. Every single month there are random charges tacked on, that they cannot explain when I call. Until recently, they've cancelled these charges with good apology. But now?
I have two phones suspended because they are lost. Originally, I was told I could suspend them indefinitely. Then I was told that I could only suspend them month-by-month. Then I was was told I could suspend them three months at a time. Now, they're telling me that I can only suspend 6 months per year.
So I decided to buy out the contract. They're charging me for two months' service for two phones I don't even have. And they're charging me for an entire month of service for both of those two phones AFTER the contract has been cancelled!
If you are ever, EVER tempted to go Verizon, RUN LIKE HELL OUT OF THERE. They make a pack of lying vultures seem friendly!
Tell me how this is "taking a giant crap" over an iPhone killer?
Extra charge for a provider-provisioned Exchange server? Yup, AT&T has that too. I'm 90% positive that non-provider-provisioned exchange servers aren't blocked by VZW (they aren't with AT&T).
$60/month total for a 5GB tethering plan? Same as AT&T. (Note, last I checked, there was no official support whatsoever for iPhone tethering.)
FYI I am an AT&T customer, and left VZW two years ago a very unhappy customer, but the summary is unjustly misworded to paint VZW extremely negatively when in reality their data pricing is no different than AT&T. (Which is an improvement, VZW's data pricing used to be AWFUL compared to AT&T.)
There are four major ones, nearly everyone else is a reseller of the four.
The four are split 50/50 into two technology camps: Verizon and Sprint use Qualcomm CDMA2000, AT&T and T-Mobile use GSM/UMTS.
Of each of the technology camps, there's one "big boy" and one "small fry" provider. The "big boys" (AT&T and Verizon) have relatively expensive service plans, however they also have quite comprehensive coverage even in rural areas. The "small fry" have cheap service plans, but pitiful coverage areas. For example, T-Mobile users get zero coverage for 15-20 miles of highway west of Vestal, NY, including where I live and work (Owego). AT&T and Verizon, however, have very strong coverage in all areas around Owego, despite it being a relatively small rural town.
4. A Robot may not grossly overcharge a human being, or through inaction, allow a human being to be grossly overcharged, except where such orders would conflict with the first, second, or third laws.
Here's the background:
I have a Verizon unlimited data plan in the U.S. and recently crossed the border to Canada. Prior to crossing the border I called customer service to find out what rates I'd be paying for voice and data. The data rate I was quoted was ".002 cents per kilobyte."
I was surprised at the rate so I confirmed it with the representative I spoke to, and she confirmed it "point zero zero two cents per kilobyte." I asked her to note that in my account.
by Anonymous Coward
on Monday November 09, @08:00AM (#30031410)
If the plan is limited, it's not "unlimited", so please stop pretending. No, any cap is a cap is not no cap is not "unlimited". How many marketeers do you need to fire to stop believing otherwise, verizon?
Of course not. We let the market decide, because in our faith, consumers have the time and ability to be perfectly rational and omniscent in the economic sense. Any time a consumer is decieved, it's because they have sinned, and so they deserve it. To stand in the way of the invisible hand is to deny the will of God (or society, or something)...:)
Yes, the Federal Trade Commission [wikipedia.org]. Their teeth are about as sharp and fearsome as an earthworm:
The goal is prevention rather than punishment, reflecting the purpose of civil law in setting things right rather than that of criminal law. The typical sanction is to order the advertiser to stop its illegal acts, or to include disclosure of additional information that serves to avoid the chance of deception. Corrective advertising may be mandated. But there are no fines or prison time except for the infrequent instances when an advertiser refuses to stop despite being ordered to do so. [emphasis added]
So, kind of like a police officer running after a purse-snatcher yelling, "Stop! Or I'll yell stop again!"
Wired's survey put Verizon's 3G network at an average of 1.9 Mbps / ~240 KBps.
If that's the case, we're talking 12 minutes of saturation per day.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/3g-speed-test/ [wired.com]
Pretty much. My fiancee and I will be combining our accounts next spring (she has AT&T, I have Verizon), and AT&T is sort of our default because both of our families use AT&T. We want smart phones, not necessarily the iPhone, and I was excited about the Droid. I should have expected that Verizon would come up with an 'unlimited' but capped at 5 GB plan. Guess it'll be the iPhone after all.
I really do want to be able to tether, because we occasionally travel and don't have WiFi access and I want to use the laptop. But I've survived this long without tethering, and a smart phone will be enough for light web browsing and email.
Come a few months, this isn't going to be the situation. This is a highly deregulated industry, prices like these don't work in the longterm. You be patient for a few months and competition will drive it all down and you'll have the luxury of a choice.
Just out of curiosity, how can a wireless company tell whether or not you're tethering, when you run a device that can run pretty much any sort of software? Also, is a wireless proxy considered tethering? It seems to be quirte ridiculous to charge for a specific amount of bandwidth and then not let you actually use it.
Depends on how locked down the device is. If they control the software, they can get a message whenever you use the bluetooth DUN profile, or just disable it if you don't pay the fee. The AUP for my phone plan (T-Mobile UK) prohibits IM and tethering, but they've never complained when I used a Jabber client on my laptop via my phone. They could also use IP stack fingerprinting, which isn't 100% reliable but may be good enough to spot a Symbian, Blackberry, or iPhone stack.
The simple solution for most stuff is Browser ID strings and in some cases, MAC address prefixes. I know that in the UK, I could convince the O2 cloud to let me surf the web using wifi from my laptop on my free iPhone bandwidth simply by changing my laptop MAC address and browser ID to be mobile safari.
I'm not sure how they would detect other apps, but as soon as you fire up a standard browser, it would be pretty easy to spot if you haven't changed this.
One of my friends unlocked his Blackberry and enabled tethering without paying Verizon the tethering fee. He was playing MMOs via the phone's internet connection and this lasted for about half a month before Verizon noticed and disconnected him. When he opened up a web browser they showed him a message telling him that he was tethering without paying for it and offered to re-enable it for a few dollars a month. All he had to do was click "ok" and it automatically added tethering to his bill and re-enabled the access instantly.
They are doing something to track if you are tethering and not paying for, possibly just by watching the usage and what kinds of things you are doing (for example - WoW packets showing up on the phone automatically means tethering since the phone itself isn't capable of playing World of Warcraft).
I should have expected that Verizon would come up with an 'unlimited' but capped at 5 GB plan. Guess it'll be the iPhone after all.
So you don't want to get the Droid, because Verizon is evil and calls their plan unlimited when it's really 5 GB/month. Fair enough. Then, you decide to turn to the iPhone, where Apple pulls apps because they dare to compete with AT&T? I hate to be the one to tell you, but you're trading one evil master for another, not getting a better situation.
So does that mean that you can only get a Droid telephone with a verizon account?
If so, there's your problem: your markets for mobile telecom are vendor-locked, and thus not very free. Say what you might about the EU, they really whipped the mobile telco's into submission and as such, we don't have a system where your phone is branded by the telco. Incidentally, Apple is trying to push such a model to Europe, but people here are not buying into it.
If not so, what's the big deal? Just buy the droid and don't choose Verizon as your provider.
Part of the problem is that the US carriers use different technologies. Two carriers (AT&T, T-mobile) use GSM. Verizon uses CDMA. So, even if the phone weren't locked to the Verizon network, you couldn't take it to either of the others.
T-Mo and AT&T both use GSM and are pretty good about SIM-unlocking their phones. (In general both will provide a SIM unlock if you've been a customer in good standing, meaning bills paid, for 90 days.)
That said, there are enough differences between the bands they use that I wish you luck in using a T-Mo phone on AT&T or an AT&T phone on T-Mo, unless you enjoy the pain and suffering of EDGE data. I do not know of a single phone on this planet that does UMTS in all three of the bands used for it in the USA.
Here in the US, the Droid is a CDMA/EVDO variant, which means it is only capable of operating on two carriers - Verizon Wireless and Sprint. Verizon can basically charge whatever fees they want, as they do have the largest 3G network in the US. Verizon works in remote areas better than any other carrier. Verizon also has the Droid device locked to their network.
It is possible to buy an unlocked Motorola Milestone and use it in the US, but that would only gain you 3G access on AT&T Wireless and not T-Mobile. T-Mobile uses a different 3G band than the rest of the known GSM world.
Remember, we don't have to protect consumers or competition in the US, only our large corporations bank accounts. I do wish we had Europe's model though. I noticed how great it was when I was in London for a few weeks.
This simplifies things a lot for AT&T (who still hasn't introduced tethering for the iPhone): All they have to do to get back on the high horse is come up with a better pricing plan than Verizon's and have the service available in the next couple of months. Even AT&T can potentially pull that off.
As for the Exchange data plan - both Verizon and AT&T already do this on paper for smartphones, but that's the "corporate" data plan. On all the phones I've seen (for both networks) it doesn't actually matter - if your phone supports ActiveSync and you have a personal account it still works fine.
Am I reading this right? They call the 5GB a month plan "unlimited", and charge $50 PER additional gigabyte (when they were perfectly willing to accept $6/gigabyte before you went over the limit)
Why don't they control usage another way? Say, if you go over 5GB a month, your data rates get slashed to 1/5 or 1/10 the normal speed, and the phone gives you an OPTION to pay an additional fee if you want your full speed restored. I actually think a cap is a good thing FOR PHONES because radio spectrum is a finite resource. Verizon only owns so much spectrum, and using current modulation technology, can only send so much data through the air in a particular cell at one time. There are high tech ways around this problem, but they cost a lot of money, and heavy users should pay more.
But they way they are doing this is just a trap basically. I bet the phone doesn't even tell you if you go over the limit, unless you look in some deeply buried menu. They are just setting you up for a huge bill during that one month when you actually use the phone's internet capabilities to their full potential.
And the phone had so much promise. They say the screen kicks the ass of the iphone, and that the CALL QUALITY is vastly clearer and better. I believe it - I had a CDMA phone years ago, and I recall it being nearly as clear and stable a connection as a land-line. Darn nokia phone would work everywhere as well. I've never, ever gotten service this good through ATT.
I actually think a cap is a good thing FOR PHONES because radio spectrum is a finite resource.
it's fine if you don't advertise as unlimited. That's fraud. Why it is protected when cellphone companies do it, I don't know.
I believe it - I had a CDMA phone years ago, and I recall it being nearly as clear and stable a connection as a land-line.
It has nothing to do with ATT vs. Verizon or GSM vs. CDMA, it's all about your phone. My RAZR V3i gave better call quality than my V500 upg. to V600 (or wtfever it was exactly, I lent my backup phone to someone who destroyed it.)
Early adopters always get the shaft. You keep your wallet in your pocket and within months, the wave of competition with ensure that you made a very wise (and obvious) decision.
My wife and I pay about $119/month for "unlimited" data and 200 text messages each per iPhone. We get no reliable signal in most of Virginia past Prince William County unless we are on a major state highway. There are places where Verizon would be 5 bars that AT&T doesn't even get signal at all, and by that I mean not even Edge.
The moral of the story? You get what you pay for. Verizon may be more expensive, but AT&T is a perfect example of what happens when a telecom doesn't plan ahead for getting the kind of revenue it needs to really build out its network. I wasn't very happy with Verizon's customer service, or their phone selection a year ago, but they obviously put that money SOMEWHERE good since I can't remember any place other than inside the Luray and Skyline caverns where my phone didn't get a signal with Verizon...
Verizon charges "corporate" customers an extra $15/mo to access "corporate" (aka Exchange) email. This is true with all of their smartphones and is similar in pricing to what ATT & Sprint charge. Personal accounts can access Exchange w/o any additional charges.
No. Not any Exchange account, only the one that is provided by Verizon. Connecting to your corporate account doesn't cost anything extra. Other than getting the data plan.
The data plan is, in fact, unlimited. I go over 5 GB a month on my current Verizon phone regularly. This is no different. Tethering specifically has a 5 GB limit which is stated in the contract for it. There are also readily available hacks to make tethering work on an Android phone.
Indeed - almost all of the cell providers should be fined for deceptive trade practices the way they sucker people into huge bills - all agreed to in fine print.
All of this would be fixed by a very simple law - anybody ought to be able to set a limit on their monthly bill. If I call up evilphoneco and tell them that my cell phone bill is capped at $90 per month, then I don't care WHAT services I consume - they can't charge me more than $90 per month. It is their job to keep me from using services I haven't paid for - not my job to avoid accidentally incurring them. And no incurring of debts either - if they deliver me $10k worth of services they can bill me $90 once and then we're even.
Oh, the second part of that law would be that everybody's cap starts out at whatever their basic monthly rate is. Unless somebody specifically requests a higher limit they couldn't be charged for any "optional" services.
And no giving people limited choices like $10/month or unlimited only. People should be able to name their own limits as arbitrarily as they'd like.
It seems like phone companies depend on people making $500 mistakes with their cell phones, and they almost count on people doing it. They get zero mercy when it happens. At best they might be offered an option for $10 per month to cap their bill. That should NOT be something that costs money.
This crap has been circling the web and it's not completely accurate. With the $30 [verizonwireless.com] and $45 [verizonwireless.com] data plans for smartphones, you get unlimited data for the phone itself [vzw.com]. If you want to tether, it's an additional $30 for the $30 plan or $15 for the $45 plan and will allow you 5GB of tethered data and unlimited on the phone. In any case, if you want to tether and be within their TOS, you need to pay $60. It's still possible to tether without the extra cost and their software, it's just not within their TOS
The difference between the $30 and $45 data plan isn't documented well and leads to a lot of confusion. I fault VZW for not getting this strait. All the $45 gets you is access their WirelessSync service and supposedly allow you to do Exchange ActiveSync within the TOS. The $30 plan CAN DO Exchange ActiveSync, but it's supposedly not ok within their poorly documented TOS and every VZW employee will tell you that you need the $45 plan if you're going to do Exchange ActiveSync.
If you do use a lot of data on your phone, VZW can cancel your data account according to their TOS. I've used >5GB/month without a peep from VZW and any additional charge on my bill. It has been said in HoFo, if the data usage is extreme by VZW opionion, they could consider that your must be doing something that's violating the TOS. If VZW was smart, they wouldn't do much canceling since they're launching a bunch of Android phones and saying streaming YouTube and music is ok, which obviously will soak up a lot of bandwidth.
I suggest that Pickens and the article author do some fact checking before publishing assumptions and hearsay.
I'm convinced PC World has it out for the Droid and has only been carrying negative articles about it. This article is particularly misleading. First of all, the unlimited phone data plan IS unlimited - it's the tethering, WAN card, Mifi, etc plans that are limited to 5GB a month. Just head over to the Verizon website and check out the fine print. Now the catch is if they think you're tethering without a tether plan (which is really easy to do) they'll charge you for tethering. So if you use 10GB a month of phone data (which, lets be honest here, is not realistic using just your phone) they'll hit you for tethering.
Next, the $15 a month for Exchange is if you're an enterprise customer. I'm not really sure what that means - if they host the account for you, or handle some extra securtity stuff, or what - but if you're just average Joe user with your own personal account, you won't need to pay it. There is no problem using Exchange with the regular personal data plan.
These facts can easily be confirmed by checking out Verizon's website, but the boys over at PCWorld are too busy making out with their iPhones to do any fact checking.
there are a couple apps out for Android that allow tethering, all free. PDAnet is the most accessible, as it allows ANYONE with an Android based phone to use it as a wireless modem over USB.
Or if you're a bit more tech savvy, like me, you can root your phone (which is just plain beneficial anyway) and install the free Wifi tether for root users app. It works like a charm, kinda sucks battery tho:-P
T-Mobile offer a £12 (or 12.50) add-on for their contracts (or included in some of them) that gets you 3GB including tethering. You're being ripped off if you're still paying late-90s data prices.
Nationwide Access with messaging: Unlimited Verizon calls; 450 minutes otherwise; unlimited text messaging. $60/mo
Data: $2/MB
Droid data plan (mandatory, 5000MB): $30/mo
Data is cheaper in bulk, but I probably won't us that much data. I'd certainly use more than 15MB if it was both cheap and convenient; the web browser on the Droid's better, I can download MP3s from Amazon, and I may not always have Wifi access, so I might find 1GB/mo at $6/mo reasonable. However, as I can break 800 text messages easy and the difference between 1000 and Infinite is $5, it's likely I'd be paying $60 + $30 now(!), nevermind my $60/mo bill somehow costs me $80/mo.
Looking at my bill, I pay almost $15/mo for data; 2mb of data, and $10 for owning the VZNavigator app. As the Droid will give me a mapping utility that should replace VZNavigator, plus unlimited data, I should lose that $15... so my bill should drop to $72 plus the $30... $102/mo.
By the way, 1112 text messages, plus 336 within Verizon's network, plus 86 picture messages. That 1000/mo for $15? Not doable. It's either $40 + $20 for 5000, or $60 for unlimited. Yes, it costs the same to get INFINITE texts/pics as it does to get 5000.
Well I'm getting the Droid, and I'm definitely abusing the data plan.
Tethering (Score:3, Informative)
For all of us cavemen out there who still just use our cell phones to make phone calls:
Tethering is using a mobile device to gain Internet access for another device.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tethering [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I LOL'ed at this one. An unlimited data plan limited to "5Gb." What a country!
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:5, Insightful)
couldn't some group of americans sue the shit out of dumbass companies who use misleading marketing - calling something with a cap "unlimited" should result in their whole marketing department fired and any manager who approved it receiving hefty financial fine.
Parent
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:5, Informative)
That was tried in the UK with ADSL providers advertising "unlimited" broadband. They got around it by reclassifying exactly what is unlimited - it is now "unlimited access" so at any time 24/7/365.25 you can have access, but it isn't unlimited bandwidth.
Sue all you like - they'll find a loop-hole somewhere and the only people to really gain will be the lawyers.
The only real way to fix the current advertising problems is to educate the general public to not fall for stupendously unrealistic claims in advertising - unfortunately the general public seem somewhat immune to the effects of such education probably because critical thinking doesn't appear to be fashionable.
Parent
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:5, Insightful)
That was tried in the UK with ADSL providers advertising "unlimited" broadband. They got around it by reclassifying exactly what is unlimited - it is now "unlimited access" so at any time 24/7/365.25 you can have access, but it isn't unlimited bandwidth.
Except that the website does not advertise "unlimited access". The text on the website reads, and I quote, "Unlimited Data for Mobile Web and Get it Now/Media Center".
It says quite clearly, "unlimited data". I know that Verizon [and the other telcos] will happily fight and say there's fine print somewhere that says otherwise, but please, there *HAS* to be some lawyer out there who's good enough to get a judge to realize that this is nothing but false advertising, and some pretty obvious bait-and-switch tactics.
Parent
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:4, Insightful)
"Unlimited Data for Mobile Web and Get it Now/Media Center".
They are called "Mobile Web" and "GetItNow" because they are "custom connections", neither are traditional broadband connections and are subject to the rules the "offerer" decides to apply. Smoke and mirrors and half-truths, sure. That's what they do.
That's why the Droid marketing was so short on facts and details before the release, they're playing it so the emotional consumers will buy it up before they realize they're getting gouged every month for the next two years(or pay the $300+ termination). Sue all you want, the lawyers will take your money faster than VZW will... hard to believe, but true.
Parent
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:5, Informative)
Oh goody, so instead of the stress of a lawsuit with a huge telco, I wait 3 years and get a coupon good for "$10 off my next Verizon phone purchase", while the law firm makes $50M in fees and contingency?
Color me unexcited.
Parent
RUN AWAY FROM VERIZON WIRELESS! (Score:4, Informative)
I am a Verizon Wireless customer. They make "horrible customer service" sound like something to aspire to.
They haven't been able to get my bill "right" for months. Every single month there are random charges tacked on, that they cannot explain when I call. Until recently, they've cancelled these charges with good apology. But now?
I have two phones suspended because they are lost. Originally, I was told I could suspend them indefinitely. Then I was told that I could only suspend them month-by-month. Then I was was told I could suspend them three months at a time. Now, they're telling me that I can only suspend 6 months per year.
So I decided to buy out the contract. They're charging me for two months' service for two phones I don't even have. And they're charging me for an entire month of service for both of those two phones AFTER the contract has been cancelled!
If you are ever, EVER tempted to go Verizon, RUN LIKE HELL OUT OF THERE. They make a pack of lying vultures seem friendly!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Tethering (Score:5, Informative)
Tell me how this is "taking a giant crap" over an iPhone killer?
Extra charge for a provider-provisioned Exchange server? Yup, AT&T has that too. I'm 90% positive that non-provider-provisioned exchange servers aren't blocked by VZW (they aren't with AT&T).
$60/month total for a 5GB tethering plan? Same as AT&T. (Note, last I checked, there was no official support whatsoever for iPhone tethering.)
FYI I am an AT&T customer, and left VZW two years ago a very unhappy customer, but the summary is unjustly misworded to paint VZW extremely negatively when in reality their data pricing is no different than AT&T. (Which is an improvement, VZW's data pricing used to be AWFUL compared to AT&T.)
Parent
Re:Tethering (Score:4, Informative)
There are four major ones, nearly everyone else is a reseller of the four.
The four are split 50/50 into two technology camps: Verizon and Sprint use Qualcomm CDMA2000, AT&T and T-Mobile use GSM/UMTS.
Of each of the technology camps, there's one "big boy" and one "small fry" provider. The "big boys" (AT&T and Verizon) have relatively expensive service plans, however they also have quite comprehensive coverage even in rural areas. The "small fry" have cheap service plans, but pitiful coverage areas. For example, T-Mobile users get zero coverage for 15-20 miles of highway west of Vestal, NY, including where I live and work (Owego). AT&T and Verizon, however, have very strong coverage in all areas around Owego, despite it being a relatively small rural town.
Parent
Quick Guys! (Score:5, Funny)
4. A Robot may not grossly overcharge a human being, or through inaction, allow a human being to be grossly overcharged, except where such orders would conflict with the first, second, or third laws.
Re:Quick Guys! (Score:4, Interesting)
If they're not robots, what can possibly explain this:
Verizon doesn't know Dollars from Cents [blogspot.com]
The stupidity just goes on, and on, and on ...
Parent
It'd be nice if they stopped lying. (Score:5, Insightful)
If the plan is limited, it's not "unlimited", so please stop pretending. No, any cap is a cap is not no cap is not "unlimited". How many marketeers do you need to fire to stop believing otherwise, verizon?
Re:It'd be nice if they stopped lying. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:It'd be nice if they stopped lying. (Score:4, Insightful)
Mod parent up - Funny or insightful, pick one.
Parent
Re:It'd be nice if they stopped lying. (Score:5, Funny)
Of course not. We let the market decide, because in our faith, consumers have the time and ability to be perfectly rational and omniscent in the economic sense. Any time a consumer is decieved, it's because they have sinned, and so they deserve it. To stand in the way of the invisible hand is to deny the will of God (or society, or something) ... :)
Parent
Re:It'd be nice if they stopped lying. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, the Federal Trade Commission [wikipedia.org]. Their teeth are about as sharp and fearsome as an earthworm:
The goal is prevention rather than punishment, reflecting the purpose of civil law in setting things right rather than that of criminal law. The typical sanction is to order the advertiser to stop its illegal acts, or to include disclosure of additional information that serves to avoid the chance of deception. Corrective advertising may be mandated. But there are no fines or prison time except for the infrequent instances when an advertiser refuses to stop despite being ordered to do so. [emphasis added]
So, kind of like a police officer running after a purse-snatcher yelling, "Stop! Or I'll yell stop again!"
Parent
Re:It'd be nice if they stopped lying. (Score:5, Funny)
You misunderstand; it's the fees that are unlimited rather than the service provided.
A "limited" account would have a cap on how much Verizon could potentially charge you per month.
Parent
Re:It'd be nice if they stopped lying. (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:It'd be nice if they stopped lying. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Free market (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Free market (Score:4, Interesting)
Pretty much. My fiancee and I will be combining our accounts next spring (she has AT&T, I have Verizon), and AT&T is sort of our default because both of our families use AT&T. We want smart phones, not necessarily the iPhone, and I was excited about the Droid. I should have expected that Verizon would come up with an 'unlimited' but capped at 5 GB plan. Guess it'll be the iPhone after all.
I really do want to be able to tether, because we occasionally travel and don't have WiFi access and I want to use the laptop. But I've survived this long without tethering, and a smart phone will be enough for light web browsing and email.
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Re:Free market (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Free market (Score:5, Informative)
This is a highly deregulated industry...
Which allows collusion, continued high prices and lackluster service.
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Re:Free market (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Free market (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Free market (Score:4, Informative)
The simple solution for most stuff is Browser ID strings and in some cases, MAC address prefixes. I know that in the UK, I could convince the O2 cloud to let me surf the web using wifi from my laptop on my free iPhone bandwidth simply by changing my laptop MAC address and browser ID to be mobile safari.
I'm not sure how they would detect other apps, but as soon as you fire up a standard browser, it would be pretty easy to spot if you haven't changed this.
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Re:Free market (Score:4, Interesting)
One of my friends unlocked his Blackberry and enabled tethering without paying Verizon the tethering fee. He was playing MMOs via the phone's internet connection and this lasted for about half a month before Verizon noticed and disconnected him. When he opened up a web browser they showed him a message telling him that he was tethering without paying for it and offered to re-enable it for a few dollars a month. All he had to do was click "ok" and it automatically added tethering to his bill and re-enabled the access instantly.
They are doing something to track if you are tethering and not paying for, possibly just by watching the usage and what kinds of things you are doing (for example - WoW packets showing up on the phone automatically means tethering since the phone itself isn't capable of playing World of Warcraft).
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Re:Free market (Score:5, Insightful)
I should have expected that Verizon would come up with an 'unlimited' but capped at 5 GB plan. Guess it'll be the iPhone after all.
So you don't want to get the Droid, because Verizon is evil and calls their plan unlimited when it's really 5 GB/month. Fair enough. Then, you decide to turn to the iPhone, where Apple pulls apps because they dare to compete with AT&T? I hate to be the one to tell you, but you're trading one evil master for another, not getting a better situation.
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Verizon = US, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
So does that mean that you can only get a Droid telephone with a verizon account?
If so, there's your problem: your markets for mobile telecom are vendor-locked, and thus not very free. Say what you might about the EU, they really whipped the mobile telco's into submission and as such, we don't have a system where your phone is branded by the telco. Incidentally, Apple is trying to push such a model to Europe, but people here are not buying into it.
If not so, what's the big deal? Just buy the droid and don't choose Verizon as your provider.
Re:Verizon = US, right? (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Verizon = US, right? (Score:5, Informative)
T-Mo and AT&T both use GSM and are pretty good about SIM-unlocking their phones. (In general both will provide a SIM unlock if you've been a customer in good standing, meaning bills paid, for 90 days.)
That said, there are enough differences between the bands they use that I wish you luck in using a T-Mo phone on AT&T or an AT&T phone on T-Mo, unless you enjoy the pain and suffering of EDGE data. I do not know of a single phone on this planet that does UMTS in all three of the bands used for it in the USA.
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Re:Verizon = US, right? (Score:4, Informative)
Here in the US, the Droid is a CDMA/EVDO variant, which means it is only capable of operating on two carriers - Verizon Wireless and Sprint. Verizon can basically charge whatever fees they want, as they do have the largest 3G network in the US. Verizon works in remote areas better than any other carrier. Verizon also has the Droid device locked to their network.
It is possible to buy an unlocked Motorola Milestone and use it in the US, but that would only gain you 3G access on AT&T Wireless and not T-Mobile. T-Mobile uses a different 3G band than the rest of the known GSM world.
Remember, we don't have to protect consumers or competition in the US, only our large corporations bank accounts. I do wish we had Europe's model though. I noticed how great it was when I was in London for a few weeks.
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So... (Score:5, Funny)
These aren't the Droids I'm looking for
Lowering the bar for AT&T (Score:3, Informative)
This simplifies things a lot for AT&T (who still hasn't introduced tethering for the iPhone): All they have to do to get back on the high horse is come up with a better pricing plan than Verizon's and have the service available in the next couple of months. Even AT&T can potentially pull that off.
As for the Exchange data plan - both Verizon and AT&T already do this on paper for smartphones, but that's the "corporate" data plan. On all the phones I've seen (for both networks) it doesn't actually matter - if your phone supports ActiveSync and you have a personal account it still works fine.
Say what? (Score:4, Insightful)
Am I reading this right? They call the 5GB a month plan "unlimited", and charge $50 PER additional gigabyte (when they were perfectly willing to accept $6/gigabyte before you went over the limit)
Why don't they control usage another way? Say, if you go over 5GB a month, your data rates get slashed to 1/5 or 1/10 the normal speed, and the phone gives you an OPTION to pay an additional fee if you want your full speed restored. I actually think a cap is a good thing FOR PHONES because radio spectrum is a finite resource. Verizon only owns so much spectrum, and using current modulation technology, can only send so much data through the air in a particular cell at one time. There are high tech ways around this problem, but they cost a lot of money, and heavy users should pay more.
But they way they are doing this is just a trap basically. I bet the phone doesn't even tell you if you go over the limit, unless you look in some deeply buried menu. They are just setting you up for a huge bill during that one month when you actually use the phone's internet capabilities to their full potential.
And the phone had so much promise. They say the screen kicks the ass of the iphone, and that the CALL QUALITY is vastly clearer and better. I believe it - I had a CDMA phone years ago, and I recall it being nearly as clear and stable a connection as a land-line. Darn nokia phone would work everywhere as well. I've never, ever gotten service this good through ATT.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I actually think a cap is a good thing FOR PHONES because radio spectrum is a finite resource.
it's fine if you don't advertise as unlimited. That's fraud. Why it is protected when cellphone companies do it, I don't know.
I believe it - I had a CDMA phone years ago, and I recall it being nearly as clear and stable a connection as a land-line.
It has nothing to do with ATT vs. Verizon or GSM vs. CDMA, it's all about your phone. My RAZR V3i gave better call quality than my V500 upg. to V600 (or wtfever it was exactly, I lent my backup phone to someone who destroyed it.)
Only a fool would pay that (Score:3, Insightful)
Speaking as one of many AT&T users (Score:3, Insightful)
My wife and I pay about $119/month for "unlimited" data and 200 text messages each per iPhone. We get no reliable signal in most of Virginia past Prince William County unless we are on a major state highway. There are places where Verizon would be 5 bars that AT&T doesn't even get signal at all, and by that I mean not even Edge.
The moral of the story? You get what you pay for. Verizon may be more expensive, but AT&T is a perfect example of what happens when a telecom doesn't plan ahead for getting the kind of revenue it needs to really build out its network. I wasn't very happy with Verizon's customer service, or their phone selection a year ago, but they obviously put that money SOMEWHERE good since I can't remember any place other than inside the Luray and Skyline caverns where my phone didn't get a signal with Verizon...
Inaccurate Exchange Pricing (Score:3, Informative)
Microsoft Exchange email account you ...$15 (Score:5, Informative)
No. Not any Exchange account, only the one that is provided by Verizon. Connecting to your corporate account doesn't cost anything extra. Other than getting the data plan.
Summary is dead wrong (Score:5, Informative)
The data plan is, in fact, unlimited. I go over 5 GB a month on my current Verizon phone regularly. This is no different. Tethering specifically has a 5 GB limit which is stated in the contract for it. There are also readily available hacks to make tethering work on an Android phone.
Re:Summary is dead wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed - almost all of the cell providers should be fined for deceptive trade practices the way they sucker people into huge bills - all agreed to in fine print.
All of this would be fixed by a very simple law - anybody ought to be able to set a limit on their monthly bill. If I call up evilphoneco and tell them that my cell phone bill is capped at $90 per month, then I don't care WHAT services I consume - they can't charge me more than $90 per month. It is their job to keep me from using services I haven't paid for - not my job to avoid accidentally incurring them. And no incurring of debts either - if they deliver me $10k worth of services they can bill me $90 once and then we're even.
Oh, the second part of that law would be that everybody's cap starts out at whatever their basic monthly rate is. Unless somebody specifically requests a higher limit they couldn't be charged for any "optional" services.
And no giving people limited choices like $10/month or unlimited only. People should be able to name their own limits as arbitrarily as they'd like.
It seems like phone companies depend on people making $500 mistakes with their cell phones, and they almost count on people doing it. They get zero mercy when it happens. At best they might be offered an option for $10 per month to cap their bill. That should NOT be something that costs money.
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Wrong Information (Score:5, Informative)
The difference between the $30 and $45 data plan isn't documented well and leads to a lot of confusion. I fault VZW for not getting this strait. All the $45 gets you is access their WirelessSync service and supposedly allow you to do Exchange ActiveSync within the TOS. The $30 plan CAN DO Exchange ActiveSync, but it's supposedly not ok within their poorly documented TOS and every VZW employee will tell you that you need the $45 plan if you're going to do Exchange ActiveSync.
If you do use a lot of data on your phone, VZW can cancel your data account according to their TOS. I've used >5GB/month without a peep from VZW and any additional charge on my bill. It has been said in HoFo, if the data usage is extreme by VZW opionion, they could consider that your must be doing something that's violating the TOS. If VZW was smart, they wouldn't do much canceling since they're launching a bunch of Android phones and saying streaming YouTube and music is ok, which obviously will soak up a lot of bandwidth.
I suggest that Pickens and the article author do some fact checking before publishing assumptions and hearsay.
PC World Has it out for the Droid (Score:5, Informative)
Next, the $15 a month for Exchange is if you're an enterprise customer. I'm not really sure what that means - if they host the account for you, or handle some extra securtity stuff, or what - but if you're just average Joe user with your own personal account, you won't need to pay it. There is no problem using Exchange with the regular personal data plan.
These facts can easily be confirmed by checking out Verizon's website, but the boys over at PCWorld are too busy making out with their iPhones to do any fact checking.
If its got Android, it can be tethered (Score:4, Informative)
Or if you're a bit more tech savvy, like me, you can root your phone (which is just plain beneficial anyway) and install the free Wifi tether for root users app. It works like a charm, kinda sucks battery tho
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
What are you talking about?
T-Mobile offer a £12 (or 12.50) add-on for their contracts (or included in some of them) that gets you 3GB including tethering. You're being ripped off if you're still paying late-90s data prices.
Re:Beats UK prices (Score:4, Funny)
The unlimited that is limited, the free you have to pay. And Orwell and I laughing in the newspeak sense.
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Re:On the one hand... (Score:4, Informative)
No, no, lemme break it down.
Data is cheaper in bulk, but I probably won't us that much data. I'd certainly use more than 15MB if it was both cheap and convenient; the web browser on the Droid's better, I can download MP3s from Amazon, and I may not always have Wifi access, so I might find 1GB/mo at $6/mo reasonable. However, as I can break 800 text messages easy and the difference between 1000 and Infinite is $5, it's likely I'd be paying $60 + $30 now(!), nevermind my $60/mo bill somehow costs me $80/mo.
Looking at my bill, I pay almost $15/mo for data; 2mb of data, and $10 for owning the VZNavigator app. As the Droid will give me a mapping utility that should replace VZNavigator, plus unlimited data, I should lose that $15... so my bill should drop to $72 plus the $30 ... $102/mo.
By the way, 1112 text messages, plus 336 within Verizon's network, plus 86 picture messages. That 1000/mo for $15? Not doable. It's either $40 + $20 for 5000, or $60 for unlimited. Yes, it costs the same to get INFINITE texts/pics as it does to get 5000.
Well I'm getting the Droid, and I'm definitely abusing the data plan.
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