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Comments: 145 +-   Kindle Finally Ready For Global Distribution on Saturday October 10, @10:31AM

Posted by Soulskill on Saturday October 10, @10:31AM
from the not-enough-people-in-the-us-read-books dept.
handheld
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geirnord writes "Previously a US-only device, the Amazon Kindle 2 is now finally available in an international edition. The new device is identical to the Kindle 2, with the exception of Edge and 3G support. That means Whispernet-like functionality over most of the world." Reader pasm notes a report at The Guardian which points out higher ebook prices for international Kindle users. "When asked by the Guardian precisely how much downloads would cost, an Amazon.co.uk spokesman revealed that foreign customers — including those in Britain — would be paying $13.99 (£8.75) per book instead of the American price of $9.99 (£6.25). That amounts to a 40% premium for the same title." The spokesman said the higher prices reflected higher operating costs and VAT rates.
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Submission: Kindle finally ready for global distribution by geirnord (150896)
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  • Except Canada... (Score:2, Informative)

    by robbrit (1408421)
    To the other Canadians out there: we won't be getting it, according to the Globe and Mail:
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/why-you-cant-get-the-kindle-in-canada/article1316081/ [theglobeandmail.com]

    I guess I'll have to get it shipped in from Burundi or Sri Lanka instead.

  • Not in Canada (Score:5, Informative)

    by Tridus (79566) on Saturday October 10, @10:39AM (#29703863) Homepage

    It's available all over the world, but not in Canada.

    According to the Globe and Mail, that is because until next month, there is only one network in Canada capable of carrying it (Rogers). In November, Bell and Telus will also be capable of carrying it.

    We'll see.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/telecom-competition-behind-kindle-delay/article1317633/ [theglobeandmail.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by V50 (248015)

      Yeah, I was really hoping to get one for Christmas, so this pretty much sucks. If it's not out by December, I'll probably get a Sony eBook reader (yes, Sony is evil, but I like their products, and I have a high tolerance for evil.) or buy a Kindle off eBay.

      For those who know better than I, if I buy an American Kindle off eBay, how well will it work in Canada? Will I be able to buy the ebooks off the American store (with a Canadian CC) and just load them with USB, or will the DRM cause me too many problems?

      B

      • The American Store might not allow a Canadian CC. I would get the Sony IF a Canadian Kindle isn't out by the time you want one and you might hold off till after Christmas for sales around New Years.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by V50 (248015)

          how well will it work in Canada?

          I am not a Canadian, but I wouldn't count on the product working well, given that Amazon suppresses digital content to anybody they don't happen to care for. Australia currently falls into this category; digital copies of books are unavailable where Amazon is perfectly happy to sell you a dead-tree version.

          I happen to prefer the latter, but for some texts, it would be nice to forego the exorbitant US freight costs.

          To be fair, I really doubt it's that they have an axe to grind against Australians. More likely is some annoying conflicts with Australian laws, publishers, organisations and/or cell phone companies. It really wouldn't be a smart decision to not release content to Australia because a dingo ate Bezos' baby or he was molested by a Kangaroo or something.

          Same as Canada. I'm sure they want to have my money, but are either waiting for our (terrible) phone companies to stop sucking, or some conflict with Canadian

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It's available all over the world, but not in Canada.

      True.

      According to the Globe and Mail, that is because until next month, there is only one network in Canada capable of carrying it (Rogers). In November, Bell and Telus will also be capable of carrying it.

      Typical crappy reporting by the Globe and Mail. It is true that the new "global" kindle is a gsm device, and there is only one gsm operator in Canada (rogers).

      BUT, the US Kindle is NOT A GSM DEVICE. The US Kindle is a CDMA device. There are two CDMA oper

  • Under the VAT Directive 2006/112/EC of 28 November 2006 [europa.eu], the suggested EU VAT rate for books (and children's nappies!) is the reduced rate of 5%. Many countries, such as Ireland, the UK, and Poland, for example, have charged zero percent VAT on books [ebf-eu.org] for years. Amazon is, as usual, full of it.

    • Re:VAT on Books in Europe Trending Towards 0%-5% (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Narpak (961733) on Saturday October 10, @10:49AM (#29703925)
      I also wonder how many times you'll be able to download a book you have purchased.
      Some Kindle books have secret caps on the number of times you can download them. [boingboing.net]
      Kindle’s DRM [geardiary.com].

      If these stories are true then the Kindle is, in my eyes, nothing but a rip-off.

    • Re:VAT on Books in Europe Trending Towards 0%-5% (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Idiomatick (976696) on Saturday October 10, @11:05AM (#29703993)
      I wonder how much operating costs would be. Is the internet is the wireless net in Britain really a lot more expensive? They do realize that shipping a product online has the same operating costs anywhere on the earth... since you can do it from anywhere in the Earth. The whole thing is total BS.

      I think the real reason is, Europeans are used to taking it in the ass from electronics industries why not do that too? Yay +40% on anything that includes a chip for no reason... apparently on files now too.

      • ...that it is their product and they can set the price wherever the hell they want to. You don't have buy their stuff if you don't want to.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Idiomatick (976696)
          That's fine. But misrepresenting themselves (re. lying) to look innocent is pretty shameful and I have no qualms calling them on that. And Europe has increased prices on pretty much anything electronic, something the free market hasn't solved. So they don't have a huge variety of choice. Sort of like the companies have the right to do w/e they want, and I have the right to moan and whine about it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Reaperducer (871695)

      Amazon is, as usual, full of it.

      Is Amazon full of it, or are you jumping to uninformed conclusions?

      The Kindle doesn't read books, it reads e-books, which are considered and taxed as software in many locales.

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Amazon is, as usual, full of it.

        Is Amazon full of it, or are you jumping to uninformed conclusions? The Kindle doesn't read books, it reads e-books, which are considered and taxed as software in many locales.

        Your Kindle can READ?! Shit, that's really advanced. Mine just displays text.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tgd (2822)

        And, Amazon subsidizes the cost of the ebook -- they pay the publisher the full print price that they would pay for a paper copy of the book, and are subsidizing the cost of the book to keep it at $9.99 in the US.

        If the paper book itself costs more elsewhere, they'd have to eat more of the loss unless the ebook price went up.

        The publishers are the problem, not Amazon. The publishers are fighting tooth and nail to prevent the success of ebooks.

          • Re:VAT on Books in Europe Trending Towards 0%-5% (Score:4, Informative)

            by cdrguru (88047) on Saturday October 10, @02:09PM (#29705301) Homepage

            Everyone seems to think that the distribution of physical books is somehow expensive and troublesome. It isn't.

            The publisher puts the books into boxes and ships the box full of books (maybe 25 of them) for $10. That works out to be around $0.40 per book, delivered to the store.

            The cost of printing a softcover/paperback book is less than $2. You can have your very own book printed in small quantities for this price. So where does all the money go for a $20 currently popular book?

            You ever think it might go to the publisher that fronted the author money, paid for the editors, marketed the book and promoted it? Gosh, those costs might not change for an eBook at all.

            Guess what? Physical books aren't that expensive to distribute, and eBooks have almost identical costs. Sure on a $20 book you might save $2.50 but only $2.50. Waiting for the $1 currently popular eBook? You will be waiting a long time.

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by Serious Callers Only (1022605)

              The publisher puts the books into boxes and ships the box full of books (maybe 25 of them) for $10. That works out to be around $0.40 per book, delivered to the store.

              You missed out the bit where the book store typically takes 30-40% of the cover price from the publisher, often on a sale or return basis. *That's* where all the money goes, and that's something that could change dramatically with digital distribution. Publishers who start selling ebooks can make money with dramatically lower prices. Those who can't, simply wont' survive - they are competing with other publishers, but also with all the self-publishers on the internet. You'll notice that the publishers who a

      • VAT Directives (Score:5, Insightful)

        by meehawl (73285) <meehawl,spam&gmail,com> on Saturday October 10, @12:00PM (#29704363) Homepage Journal

        The EU VAT policy directives specifically categorise ebooks and audio books as books, and thus *supposed* to be within the reduced VAT bands.

        Following its policy line in the field of reduced rates of VAT established in its Communication of July 2007 (COM (2007) 380 final), the Commission adopted a proposal for a Council Directive amending Directive 2006/112/EC as regards reduced rates of VAT : COM(2008)428 [europa.eu]: ...
        allow reduced rates for:

                * children's nappies;
                * audio books, CD's, CD-ROMs or other physical support that predominantly reproduce the same information content as printed books;
                * few other technical adaptations already proposed in 2003, which are still valid, as equipment, aids and other appliances for disabled or services linked with waste treatment, etc.

        Amazon has a long history of basically ignoring EU law when it suits it. For example, Amazon.co.UK insisted for years on charging for VAT for books delivered to Ireland (when the UK still charged VAT). Did it refund that improperly charged VAT for Irish customers when it finally relented? No. See also: One-Click Patent. Amazon likes to borrow a lot of the oxygen about the freedom of information and open markets and the disincentivising quality of software patents, etc, but when it comes down to it, it's as aggressive and exclusionary and predatory as Apple or Microsoft.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by EvilIdler (21087)

        OK, then. Norway has 0% tax on downloadable software and books. The Kindle is still going to have trouble gaining popularity :)

      • They are charged full VAT rate in the UK, at least. Hopefully now Amazon is going to start making e-books more mainstream there will be a change in the law.

      • The Kindle doesn't read books, it reads e-books, which are considered and taxed as software in many locales.

        But not at 40%.

    • Except, unfortunately, an electronic book isn't a book so they attract the full UK 17.5% VAT rate.

    • Who exactly is full of it? e-books != books.

      e-books aren't covered under the VAT exception and you have to pay the full 15% on them.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by ThreeGigs (239452)

      RTFA, please.
      Or, if you're too lazy, I'll post the excerpt here:

      "Providing the wireless download service had proven a sticking point in the company's attempt to launch the Kindle outside America, after the retailer failed to come to an agreement with various mobile phone networks around the world. To push through the launch, the company instead chose to partner with American phone company AT&T, which already has its own international roaming deals around the world - including with British networks O2, V

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by xaxa (988988)

        Over a penny per kB? That's AT&T ripping off their customers, not the British networks ripping off AT&T, and should be irrelevant when Amazon were negotiating the contract anyway.

        500MB/month 3G mobile broadband is £5/month from Orange.
        Three give 150MB/month if you top up by £5, plus free Skype calls.

      • Despite the quote, they are making shit up. We have existing data services in Europe that are cheaper and faster than the US equivalent. There is no need for Amazon to "partner" with any specific mobile network. And WTF are they talking about roaming for ? We are in our home countries - we will not BE roaming. We don't have AT&T accounts based in the US. Are they expecting us to make a cell phone call to the US just to download an ebook ? If they publish the books and let the device have a user accessib
        • *you* arent the mobile customer in this case, amazon is. The device they're selling you comes with free cellular access, the whole point being it's entirely self contained and doesnt depend on you phone contract. So yes, they need to negotiate with the phone companies. Amazon wants to make money, if it'd been cheaper to go with a European carrier over the kludgey legal hack of using AT&T (and thus AT&Ts already negotiated network deals) they would have. Sounds to me like the EU providers made it too

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by Hognoxious (631665)

          No-one would buy a car that you could only fill with 1 brand of gas, or only use on certain routes.

          They would if it was shiny and called an iMobile.

    • That is for dead tree books. Ebooks are charged at the full rate of between 15% and 25%. The UK is at the lower end of that scale.

  • That's nothing (Score:4, Insightful)

    by A Friendly Troll (1017492) on Saturday October 10, @10:51AM (#29703933)

    I recently bought a monitor for exactly double its price in the USA.

    For commodity hardware, a rule of 1.5x the US price is quite accurate, but for those a little bit more rare, it goes all the way up to 2.5x. If the Kindle becomes available here (which I strongly doubt), I would fully expect a price of $550-600.

    P.S. The VAT on books here is 0%.

    • P.S. The VAT on ebooks is 17.5%, unfortunately. They're not books but electronic downloads and are taxed as such.

  • When will somebody make a DOCUMENT reader? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mark-t (151149) <markt@@@lynx...bc...ca> on Saturday October 10, @10:57AM (#29703957) Journal
    If I want to read fiction, I can easily grab a book and read it... where a portable device is *really* handy, however, is being able to carry a large number of books in a small space at once... such as reference material, and it is impractical to carry some 50 to 70 odd pounds of books everywhere. Thus, I want a portable device for reading documents that have already been formatted for 8.5x11, usable in any lighting condition where one could otherwise read conventional printed material (ie, laptop and notebook screens are not adequate because they are not easily readable in bright sunlight). Plastic Logic is coming out with a 10.4" diagonal screen reader soon that satisfies this contrast requirement, but even that's still about a third smaller than a full letter-sized screen.

    • If I want to read fiction, I can easily grab a book and read it... where a portable device is *really* handy, however, is being able to carry a large number of books in a small space at once... such as reference material, and it is impractical to carry some 50 to 70 odd pounds of books everywhere.

      I completely agree, personally I find one to two book to be "reasonable" to carry around. What I would REALLY like to see is a book reader that:

      1. Looks like a book when closed
      2. Has two reading surfaces inside
      3. H

    • The IREX Digital Reader is likely the closest thing right now:
      http://www.irextechnologies.com/irexdr1000 [irextechnologies.com]

      But generally speaking it seems like the devices just aren't quite there yet. I'm betting it's a few generations until we get to the really good stuff.

      Early "smartphones" sucked too, and these days they are genuinely useful. :)

      Also check out the E-book Reader Matrix, seems to be updated fairly often:
      http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E-book_Reader_Matrix [mobileread.com]

      A sidenote on the Kindle: Available in Finland: Yes. B

      • Well, there hasn't really been a market for localized ebooks in any of the smaller countries around the world so far.

        Only place you could get them in large quantities were the reader's manufacturer's websites, and they only catered to large markets.

        Why would any Finnish publisher even bother with making any of their books available as ebooks, when there were probably less than a thousand ebook readers in all of Finland. Same with Denmark, Norway, Sweden and all the other small locales.

        The big push will come

    • While a lot of us would like something in that size, I think quite a lot of manufacturers are looking at the netbook market for inspiration.

      We don't see many netbooks with a 14.3" (A4 diagonal) or 13.9" (Letter diagonal) size screens. They're all around 10" (you mentioned the 10.4" coming out).

      And once you have the screen, you still need a bezel, and some kind of input device as well, unless you want it to be an expensive touch screen model as well. I wouldn't mind, as it'd be nice to add notes, comments an

      • E-readers need to have colour displays, and they need to be a lot more robust than the devices so far offered by Amazon, which seem to be excessively fragile.

        Fujitsu already has a colour e-book reader on sale in Japan. PlasticLogic says they should have one available for next spring...ish. I'm not sure about the durability, though. As for the price, they're going to start dropping over the next year or two now that so many different companies/products are getting into the market.

  • Ironic that only DRM prevented this sooner (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rastoboy29 (807168) on Saturday October 10, @11:07AM (#29704007) Homepage
    The only reason the Kindle couldn't go "international" in the first place was because they want to have "international" pricing, which of course means DRM.  Without DRM, Amazon's product could have been global more or less instantly.

    Even regular folks think that ten bucks for an e-book is nonsense, and they are also starting to see how DRM reduces the value of an electronic purchase to essentially nil.

    In the end, some Chinese company will come out with something technically similar with no strings attached, and they'll wipe the floor with Amazon if they don't improve on this silly strategy.  I'd pay maybe a buck for an e-book, just for convenience sake--but not if you can yank it away from me at will.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tgd (2822)

      No, the only reason it couldn't go International was because the hardware used Sprint's shitty network in the US, and wouldn't work anywhere else.

    • Sorry Amazon, but your market is the early adoptors and those with to much cash.

      The idea of an e-book reader in itself is... well it is the PSP-Go. What am I going to do with all the books I already bought? Can't rip them and put them on it can I?

      Rebuy all of them? Sure, if they were cheap, but they ain't even cheaper then the printed book.

      So, I have to buy a very expensive reader, that I can't use on my existing collection of books and in return I get something that can break if I sit on it, batteries r

  • might as well buy a netbook for that price (Score:3, Insightful)

    by petes_PoV (912422) on Saturday October 10, @11:07AM (#29704013)
    When shipping and Amazon's other charges are taken into account. This piece of tech costs nearly $345. All you get is a single-use device. For that money you'd be better off buying a netbook. At least then you'd get a decent sized (and colour) screen.

    Since it's already been out a year in this model (version 2), I have a sneaking suspicion that this ploy is merely to dump old stock (if Amazon can get anyone to buy it) before a new model is introduced.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by V50 (248015)

      Yeah, you can, but the whole thing about ebook readers is they use ePaper and eInk. From what I understand, it has a display that highly resembles paper, has no lighting, etc. This makes it much more like a book, not to mention the form factor. I've tried to read ebooks on my MacBook pro, and I just can't, because it's nothing like a real book, it's awkward and totally terrible outside etc.

      It's not just an aversion to LCD either. I'm a big comic book fan (Marvel mainly) but because I'm in a rural area, I ty

    • When shipping and Amazon's other charges are taken into account. This piece of tech costs nearly $345.

      What shipping and other changes? Shipping is free and I don't know of any other charges. Even more when you buy Kindle books you get two discounts: first, the books are usually cheaper (not by much) and second, you don't pay shipping charges. I think that if you buy about 20-30 books it's like you get the device for free.

  • It's not really ready (Score:4, Insightful)

    by macshit (157376) <miles@@@gnu...org> on Saturday October 10, @11:27AM (#29704139) Homepage

    Note that this "international edition" still has the same gimped fonts as the "U.S. edition", which basically only contains latin characters.

    This seems very silly, given that the kindle actually seems perfectly capable of using a default font with much larger coverage: someone released a patch that changes the default kindle font to be Google's wide-coverage (e.g. including CJK characters) "DroidSansFallback" font! [blogkindle.com] (the page I linked to contains two patches, for two different fonts). It would have almost trivial for Amazon to do something similar (and they could have done a better job).

    I don't know what Amazon is thinking, but this is a pretty pathetic attempt at an "international" kindle.

  • Not for me! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Linnerd (150927)

    I live in Switzerland and I will not buy such a device.

    The main reasons are:
    - copy protection in Kindle (I usually pass on books that
    I'm done with - if only to gain room for new books)
    - reader way too expensive
    - books way to expensive (paper still is a lot cheaper)
    - can't highlight phrases / earmark pages / collect citations
    - did I mention copy protection?

    The ebook business will have to go a long way until they
    get to the point where mp3 shops are today...

  • Seems that that whole globalization push is not meant for 'us', only for 'them' (for variable values of 'us' and 'them'). All the more reason to push back I'd say. If we don't get to pick the same fruits I don't see why we should play by the same rules...

  • Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JustNiz (692889) on Saturday October 10, @02:02PM (#29705259)

    Kindle = way too much Amazon lock-in, control and DRM.

    Just give me an e-book reader that supports standard formats, with no wireless or DRM please.

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