Alienware Refusing Customers As Thieves 665
ChrisPaget writes "Thinking about buying Alienware (now owned by Dell)? Think again. After buying an almost-new Alienware laptop on eBay, I've spent the last week trying to get hold of a Smart Bay caddy to connect a second hard drive (about $150 for $5 of bent metal). Four different Alienware teams have refused to even give me a price on this accessory, instead accusing me of stealing the machine since I didn't buy it directly from their eBay store. They want me to persuade the eBay seller I did buy it from to add me as an authorized user of his Alienware account — they have no concept of 'ownership transfer' and instead assume that if you're not in their system, you must be a thief."
Alienware (Score:5, Insightful)
The monster cable of pre-built PCs
Re:no honor among thieves (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well, a lot of stuff on eBay is stolen... (Score:2, Insightful)
Warranty (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope. They are vastly overpriced for what they are and I'm not in a habit of paying extra for computers because of the way they look.
Four different Alienware teams have refused to even give me a price on this accessory, instead accusing me of stealing the machine since I didn't buy it directly from their eBay store.
If that is true then I agree it's crazy. I noticed that they were asking for a warranty number and I've never heard of a computer manufacturer refusing to SELL you a part unless you have a warranty number. However, is it at all possible that the support people were misunderstanding you and thinking that you wanted the part for free, under warranty? I know it's four different people and you explained it to them, but it is perfectly possible that all four are complete idiots and didn't even bother listening fully to your explanation of what you wanted.
Re:Well, a lot of stuff on eBay is stolen... (Score:0, Insightful)
Yes it does.
It's a laptop (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you have money to burn or zero skill at assembling a PC yourself, I recommend putting together your own machine.
How does one just put together a laptop? Last time I checked, laptop motherboards and cases hadn't been standardized to that point.
I look at Alienware as .... (Score:3, Insightful)
over priced pair of shoes anymore they are no better or worse than any other laptop vendor, but some folks just gotta have the whole "Alienware case of coolness" thing going on.
just amounts to the same parts as Dell, Toshiba, HP, Apple Ect just in a pretty shell.
just like shoes no matter how much you pay for them be it $5.00 or $300.00 they all will wear out at about the same time anymore as most makers of these products out source to the same companies in the same countries.
R.Morton
Re:Well, a lot of stuff on eBay is stolen... (Score:0, Insightful)
Um, so? (Score:2, Insightful)
Lots of stolen laptops end up on Ebay. Given that, I can completely understand their concerns.
Re:Alienware are overpriced anyway (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a pro, and have built systems for.... well, longer than the lifespan of many newer Slashdot readers. Unless you like breaking equipment, wasting money, and climbing up a very steep learning curve, I recommend you buy a modest machine and spend your time instead on learning programming. The hard-won lessons of how to gracefully install or replace a heatsnk without getting silver heat sink paste into your memory slots, and to always buy a bag of those thumbscrews, what order the memory modules need to be installed, how to bundle your cabling and keep the airflow clear, how to get hard drives mounted given the knuckle-biting layout of screwing in some disk drives, etc., are a _complete_ waste of useful time for many people.
Alienware is, admittedly, pretty silly. Buy a refurbished Dell machine at their outlet or on Ebay, and spend your money on upgrades when you need them.
Re:Warranty (Score:2, Insightful)
They are vastly overpriced for what they are and I'm not in a habit of paying extra for computers because of the way they look.
Like an Apple?
It sound shitty, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
How are they supposed to know if you bought it or stole it?
Maybe they should have a warranty-transfer process? Like automobiles do? Maybe they already do, the seller just lost the card?
Then again, how do you know the seller didn't steal the laptop? Are you in possession of stolen property?
Again, there is no way for Alienware to know whether your possession of the laptop is legit unless the legit owner notifies them of the transfer.
So I would go back to the seller and tell him/her to resolve the situtation.
Re:Warranty (Score:3, Insightful)
Show me an Apple that is vastly overpriced for a computer with identical specs.
Re:Transfer (Score:5, Insightful)
Now if the seller does still own Alienware machines then this suggestion is even more ridiculous since they would still need their account for their own very probably hardware failures. Then there wouldn't really even be a possibility of them removing personal information from the account before giving access to the new owner.
This is nothing like transferring the title to a car, since there is a mechanism to do that. This is like demanding someone who sold you a used but unlocked cell phone put you on their plan. You should not have to create joint access to your private support and billing logins in order to resell a used computer.
Re:Simple Solution (Score:2, Insightful)
"Sheeple" is such a useful word.
It instantly lets me know who to not take seriously.
Re:Alienware are overpriced anyway (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know... I can build a new system in 30min tops if I have the components on my bench and they all are OK. I take probably more to have them ready for production. Depending on the destination I stress test them for at least 24h. After that clean install, clone and be on your way.
And I would advice every one to do this. I enjoy building my computers from parts. It takes me more to chose the right components than to build them.
Take it like a puzzle and enjoy it. And don't worry even if you brake something you are still paying less than buying a DELL.
I see this trend on slashdot and I can't understand it. People saying if you make more then xx$/h you should buy that and don't bother to do it yourself. I would say to you... damn you sleep probably around 8h/day think about all that wasted money.
Re:It's a laptop (Score:3, Insightful)
Any so-called similar systems built from barebones notebooks you make are only similar in the sense of their specs maybe. Much more so than for desktops though, for laptops, things like build quality of the PC as a cohesive whole matters. Also, instead of having one stop for warranty matters, suddenly you now have to deal with each of your component makers. Same situation as for desktops, except that notebooks that are by nature portable break 100x more than desktops.
Any ordinary geek can put together a desktop, but it takes a pretty hardcore geek (more hardcore than any I know) to build their own notebook.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Alienware (Score:1, Insightful)
Yep. If I hadn't got a good price on this second-hand Alien, I wouldn't have ever bought it.
Sure, it's a functional enough computer, but it's not and never was worth the $1300 my friend spent on it.
Re:Simple Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Or smart enough** to understand economies of scale.
** i.e., smarter than yourself, apparently.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
If they discover you're in possession of a stolen car, they MUST notify the police...
I call BS. There is absolutely no legal duty to report someone else's possession of stolen property to the police. A dealership might choose to make it a policy, but that's the dealership's own choice and not mandated by law. If there is a law in your jurisdiction that requires dealerships to do this, then it is specific to your jurisdiction only - and would be highly unusual, since such "duty to report" statutes tend to be very controversial and are usually limited to "think of the children" scenarios. And yes, IAALawStudent.
Re:Well, a lot of stuff on eBay is stolen... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, but it is a contract, and contracts are enforced by law.
I'm fairly certain this is still not correct.
The "L" in EULA stands for "license", not contract. A license is different than a contract. What kind of written contracts do you know that don't require a signature or any kind of consideration?
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
It's more like buying a used car from someone, trying to buy an oil filter directly from the dealership, and being refused because you're not the original (authorized) owner of the car. You're not asking them to change your oil, which would give them a reason to check your warranty information to make sure everything's in line, or recording your VIN number in their system so they can keep track of what car's they've worked on for the day, he's just someone who wants to buy a part from them. They're just telling you they can't sell you an oil filter because they don't have a record of you buying the car from them.
Really, why should he even be required to be the owner of any Alienware merchandise to buy a replacement part for the laptop? I'm not entirely sure of what he told the CSR's on the phone, but I wonder what they'd say if I called up and wanted to buy a replacement glowing alien head (from their laptops) to decorate something in my house with. Will they deny me because I'm not an authorized owner of the laptop that the glowing alien head fits on, or will they gladly sell me the part regardless of whether I own one of their laptops or not?
If they're denying him the part because he wants it replaced free under the original owner's warranty, that's one thing. Refusing to sell him the part because they have no record of him buying anything directly from them is different.
Re:No I wasn't aware of this unethical practice (Score:5, Insightful)
as is increasingly the case where people use Wikipedia as an authoritative source for information, for example.
Yeah that's right, an article with references couldn't possibly be trusted if it's on Wikipedia, but we'll trust everything from the media, blogs, and random commenters on a forum without question...
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
Better analogy. Go to an auto parts store and ask for brake pads for a 2005 Taurus. I assure you they will not even ask for a vin number. They sell parts, you want to buy parts, end of discussion.
Apparently, Alienware has no actual reason to believe the laptop is stolen but chooses to ASSUME that it is because they didn't directly sell it to him.
Re:Cars (Score:3, Insightful)
But when the dealer types the VIN into his computer and it comes up "stolen"[..]
They aren't checking the computer, they're checking the owner. If the dealer took your name instead of the VIN and checked if he had records of a car being sold to you, then calling you a thief because he does not that IS wrong.
Re:Alienware (Score:2, Insightful)
The video card stopped working and it's going to cost $500 for the replacement for a wimpy GeForce 6800.
Uh, what? Does the thing explode if the replacement is not installed by an Alienware employee? Couldn't you just have plonked a new card in there and called it a day?
find a seller who knows that the value is crap. (Score:5, Insightful)
Quite right, I am selling a powerbook g4 with a bad optical drive fror $225 today.
THATS ALL IT IS WORTH. Yet I see the same computer on Craigslist / ebay for much
much more. Lots of people try to pump the value with illegit software installs
(CS4, FINAL CUT PRO!, etc.....), but we all know how much those are worth.
I always found ebay completed auctions are a good measurement for market
value (a tiny bit inflated but pretty accurate). I sell my stuff locally instead
for cash, no shipping, no paypal fees, no ebay fees (they really fckin rape you nowdays).
And, unless your seller can provide original receipt, you should assume it is
a stolen machine.
and lastly : ALIENWARE ?????
cmon now.....
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
All the guy wants is to buy additional hardware for his machine. Why should he need a warranty number for that? Should car part stores ask for your VIN number when you want to buy a new headlight?
Perhaps a better analogy is laptop batteries. Why should Dell care how I got my laptop, if all I want is to spend money buying a new battery? They certainly don't lose anything - on the contrary, refusing service to me is what's losing them money!
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
bad companies don't make any profit of a second hand laptop.
A good company would sell them support and services, and judging from the summery, at $150 for a smart bay, they are close to doing just that.
Lets not forget that all PC's need to be replaced, if new owner is impressed with your service and quality, he may purchase directly from you in future.
There's also the original owner, if he has trouble on-selling his old PC because of you, he's less likely to purchase newer models from you.
1. Treat your Customers well. ...
2.
3. Profit!
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
There's no indication that he's stolen it, they're assuming he has. This is the problem.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
You have NEVER bought used gear legitimately before? I seriously doubt this guy is a thief. And making that presumption is incredibly offensive. There could be any number of reasons why documentation didn't move with the machine.
But as many others have pointed out, it is clearly their intent to discourage second-hand sales. There are lots of companies and industries that operate this way. To me, the "value" or the measure of what something is "worth" is not what something costs, but rather what you can get for it if you needed to sell it. New cars are not worth what people pay for them. Diamonds of any size or quality are almost completely worthless. Alienware (Dell?) is clearly attempting to devalue the second-hand market and it may be within their rights to deny sale of accessories to people who are not the primary equipment owners. But even this is a disservice to "their actual customers" since it truly lowers the resale value of the gear should they choose to sell it at some point down the road.
Re:Alienware (Score:5, Insightful)
The D900T is a laptop and alienware uses a special propitiatory semi-interchangeable (subject to power/cooling/size limitations) module system for the videocards in those. I highly doubt you're going to get a replacement part anywhere except alienware.
Re:Cars (Score:3, Insightful)
And I don't mean buried in older blog posts - I mean in the post that was submitted to slashdot, and thus subject to the scrutiny of hundreds of thousands of people .
Re:No I wasn't aware of this unethical practice (Score:5, Insightful)
I bought a refurb alienware laptop several years ago from a 3rd party. It worked ok, but one of the keys would stick. They wouldn't sell me a new keyboard, because I wasn't a direct customer, even though it had the Alienware markings all over it. I found who the real manufacturer was of the chassis, and they said I have to talk to the retail outlet (Alienware). I tried to go through the 3rd party, who sold a lot of refurb Alienware stuff, and they couldn't get a new keyboard.
Alienware said I could use a USB keyboard instead. Ummm, this was a laptop, that I carried for work. I didn't want to carry a keyboard too, just so I could use my laptop.
I also tried to get the second drive carrier, which turned out to be almost the same as the story said. It would have taken an act of god, and a virgin sacrifice to even hope to get one.
In the end, I suffered with the bad keyboard for quite a while. Finally on one work trip, it overheated and died. The hotel's A/C was broken, and I had to work in the middle of the night (with it 90+ degrees in the room).
I weighed my options. I had this really neat looking laptop that I couldn't do anything with, or try to beg Alienware to fix it (good luck there). I was out of country, and the exchange rate was great then, so I bought a new PC and LCD monitor, and worked from the hotel for a month like that. I went home for a week before the next 1 month job at the same site, and bought a HP laptop. Actually a HP Pavilion zv6000. That was about 3 years or so ago. I'm still using the HP, and I've put it through more abuse than the Alienware ever saw. So far it's been to 3 countries, and more US cities than I can even begin to count. I even did a live stream with a Verizon air card, 2 USB cameras, and a GPS receiver, for the length of I-10 (California to Florida) in the middle of summer. Come on, hot car, long drive, laptop sliding in the passenger seat. It never hit the floor, which was good. I left it running on my porch in Florida for 6 months straight, so I had a terminal to read my mail on, and it never failed, regardless of humidity, heat, or anything. My only complaint since then? The HP draws a lot of power, and I popped the fuse in my power inverter.
I've bought a few replacement parts for the HP, more out of want than need. I need part of the case now, because my laptop bag fell off a luggage cart, and cracked some plastic. That was easily found on eBay for about $30.
For those making car analogies and saying "the ownership should have been transferred, blah, blah", I work on other people's cars as a hobby. I've bought all kinds of parts, and never have I been asked to prove that the car was "mine", or that I was an authorized repair person. I walk into the store or even dealership and say "I need part .... for a ....", and they had it to me. The ONLY part that's ever required any sort of proof was a factory reproduced key for a lost key, so the owner has to go with registration in hand to get it. That hasn't stopped me from buying replacement ignition and door locks with new keys. I could steal your car, buy new locks, and it would be mine (without legit plates, obviously). I've even had my car towed, without any proof that it was mine. My word of "It won't start, tow it to here please" and a cash payment has always been enough. Maybe that's because I'm a fine upstanding appearing citizen, but those who know me know better. :) No, I wouldn't steal a car, but still.. A $40,000+ car is worth a hell of a lot more than anything Alienware has to offer.
Re:Warranty (Score:1, Insightful)
Oh shit. I'm sorry. I didn't realize the original claim was actually "Show me an Apple that is vastly overpriced for a computer with identical specs, but don't pick the expensive options, regardless of whether they might actually be useful or not".
My bad.
True. The XPS actually doesn't have an aluminium unibody enclosure. You're right about the battery. Hey, look, the battery upgrade option to an equivalent to the MB? $40 more. Maybe it's your supposition that the unibody enclosure is worth $490. But it ain't mine.
What person on the street says "Oh, I'm going to buy this shell of a laptop, and dump the HDD, the RAM, possibly the GPU and replace them with components from Newegg"? Maybe other Slashdot posters, sure, but the average target market of Dell, and Apple? I think not.
You then go on to make the altogether amazing claim, though you describe it as "reasonable" that comparing a 15" laptop to a 13" is appropriate. Sorry, I'm still laughing there.
Experience also tells me that the Macbook line, both pre- and post-Intel, have had all manner of large recall issues, on everything from discoloration of casing, to "logic board failure" (i.e. a completely FUBAR motherboard), and so on and so forth, and several things in between. So experience doesn't really count for a lot.
The great irony is this:
You say this, having decided for yourself what I am and what I represent. The fact that I'm posting this from a current model Mac Pro, fairly well specced out, will go over your head, because it won't gel with your worldview that I can both use an Apple product and recognize that there are other options which might meet people's needs more cheaply.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
The same seems to apply to this case, from what I can tell. The guy wanted a spare part. He called Alienware to order it. Why did they even ask what he wanted it for? If he were going to use it as a paper weight, or as a weird kind of sex toy, what difference does that make to them? It's a spare part.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
And there's a difference between accusing you of a crime and saying that I'm not going to help you with your computer until you've proven you own it legitimately. Dell/Alienware has zero obligation to provide any support whatsoever to you for a system that isn't covered by warranty. None. And the terms of their warranty say that it's transferrable, but you have to prove that you bought it legitimately rather than stole it. That's more than you get from most other vendors in the computer market.
Just because it's a big corporation doesn't mean that they are required to sell to you. The only circumstances under which refusing to service/sell to you are when it's a human rights issue... if they refuse to sell to women, that's illegal. if they refuse to sell to homosexuals, that's illegal. if they refuse to sell to jews, that's illegal. if they refuse to sell to anybody who's physically disabled, that's illegal. if they refuse to sell to somebody who doesn't want to prove that they came by it legally, then that's well within their rights as a corporation.
Re:Laptops (Score:2, Insightful)
Does the warranty, serial number, etc. matter a damn? He's asking for an ACCESSORY. Not support, not a repair, etc. If a shop asked me for my computers serial number before they would sell me an accessory, I'd tell them to "go fuck themselves" and never return.
I'd strip the warranty number from my computer before selling it too. Just as I'd nuke the hard drive. I'd rather have no personally identifiable information on a machine I'm selling to another party.
Regards,
Leynos
Re:Cars (Score:3, Insightful)
Well actually.... they won't sell you a key or an electronic fob unless you can prove you own the car.
Re:I will never buy another Alienware... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:find a seller who knows that the value is crap. (Score:5, Insightful)
And, unless your seller can provide original receipt, you should assume it is a stolen machine.
Most people are not going to be able to find a receipt for something they bought some time ago. To assume it's stolen is absurd.
Re:Cars (Score:3, Insightful)
"So in other words, using your examples, a jew, woman, homosexual, or disabled person has more rights than a white male."
Where the fuck did the GP write that? He didn't explicitly say "if they refuse to sell to white males, that's illegal" but it's implied, just like "if they refuse to sell to black people, that's illegal" is also implied, even though he didn't explicitly say that either. Or are you calling him a racist?
Are you really so fucking dumb you can't tell the difference between a list containing a few random examples, and an authoritative complete enumeration?
We do all have equal rights. The point is that the "somebody" in "if they refuse to sell to somebody who doesn't want to prove that they came by it legally, then that's well within their rights" is irrespective of age, race, sex, sexual orientation, or any other physical characteristic you care to name. The "somebody" includes whites, blacks, jews, men, women, straights, gays, bis or whatever.
FFS!
Re:Cars (Score:4, Insightful)
No. That's not what I said at all. They could refuse to sell to a gay jewish disabled black woman, and as long as they have a legitimate reason besides her minority status to deny her service, then she can't sue them. Refusing to prove that she came by it legally is a perfectly adequate reason.
Minorities don't have greater rights, they have greater protections against discrimination.
Using your example, I don't think you could have won a lawsuit against the motel, even if you were black. You were living there for 6 months, and a motel is not a rent controlled housing. Come peak season, they can legitimately jack up your rate to match seasonal rates, and if you're not willing to pay what he could make for the room (say $100/night, so $3,000/month), then he can quite legally expel you from the room. It's got nothing to do with minority status or lack thereof. A lot of that depends on the judge who hears your case, but in Canada, your case would almost certainly be thrown out of court with prejudice.