Alienware Refusing Customers As Thieves 665
ChrisPaget writes "Thinking about buying Alienware (now owned by Dell)? Think again. After buying an almost-new Alienware laptop on eBay, I've spent the last week trying to get hold of a Smart Bay caddy to connect a second hard drive (about $150 for $5 of bent metal). Four different Alienware teams have refused to even give me a price on this accessory, instead accusing me of stealing the machine since I didn't buy it directly from their eBay store. They want me to persuade the eBay seller I did buy it from to add me as an authorized user of his Alienware account — they have no concept of 'ownership transfer' and instead assume that if you're not in their system, you must be a thief."
I bought one... (Score:3, Informative)
tagged !whine !boohoo and others as they come (Score:3, Informative)
For the price of an Alienware, you could end up with a Thinkpad W700ds. Order it without the tablet and you'll have a manufacturer that encourages such activity.
Besides, Dell isn't exactly well-known for originality or quality.
Re:Well, a lot of stuff on eBay is stolen... (Score:3, Informative)
Assuming that all of the relevant discs were provided along with the hardware, that would conflict with the right of first sale, which can not be licensed away [arstechnica.com] by any EULA, at least in the United States.
The parts aren't on eBay as well? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:No I wasn't aware of this unethical practice (Score:5, Informative)
This the correct answer and any consumerist bloggers should pick up this story and INVESTIGATE properly to report their findings. (I do not advocate merely copying stories as it is both immoral and pretty dangerous if it turns out you are reporting incorrect information as is increasingly the case where people use Wikipedia as an authoritative source for information, for example.) Each and every one of these cases need to be brought to light so that either the company capitulates under the burden of public knowledge or the knowledge of the public makes them better consumers and can better avoid such vendors and their practices.
Re:Well, a lot of stuff on eBay is stolen... (Score:5, Informative)
which can not be licensed away [arstechnica.com] by any EULA, at least in the United States.
Non sequitur. If you read your linked article, you'll see this bit:
Citing the 1977 case of United States v. Wise, which involved the sale of used films obtained under dubious circumstances, Jones found that the Ninth Circuit's precedents suggested that the circumstances surrounding the sale of AutoCAD software constituted a sale, not merely a license. Therefore, the First Sale Doctrine applied, and Vernor was not bound by any of the terms in Autodesk's license agreement.
But the judge acknowledged that three more recent Ninth Circuit decisions involving software seemed to cut in the opposite direction without explicitly overturning Wise. Jones found that Wise was controlling precedent, and ruled in Vernor's favor. If the case gets appealed to the Ninth Circuit, the conflict among these precedents is likely to occupy the court's attention.
I don't know if that case was appealed, or what's happened to it. However, even if it was appealed and upheld, I believe that ruling would set precedent only for the 9th circuit, not the entire U.S. I don't remember off the top of my head, but I seem to recall there being a circuit split on this issue.
Re:Alienware just has horrible CS overall (Score:5, Informative)
Alienware feels like they're trying to do business in a new age of credit card fraud but can't quite figure it out yet. Almost all vendors require your shipping address to be on your credit card as a billing address, but they can tell you about it almost instantly. Customer service tells you that you can add a secondary address on your credit card really easily. Not Alienware. Many vendors require you to have a proof of ownership for certain service. Dell lets you change the ownership online. Not Alienware.
Alienware needs to invest some of its hard-tricked money into providing decent customer service.
Dude, you just got DELLED. (Score:3, Informative)
I bought my wife a Dell. Just after the warranty, the motherboard died. They would not/could not provide a replacement motherboard (their statements were factually inconsistent). I trashed the damn thing and cannibalized some parts.
Dude, you just got Delled.
Re:Um, so? (Score:5, Informative)
No - if their concern is valid, you tell them where you bought the computer, provide serial numbers and so forth, they take any number of actions, including:
1. Working with law enforcement - if the thing was stolen, you're either out or you have a civil case against the thief.
2. Transfer the record to you
You're right to look at the social side of the issue - but go a step further - technology can solve this particular problem.
Re:It's a laptop (Score:2, Informative)
Re:no honor among thieves (Score:5, Informative)
*shrug*
I've been building PCs for decades.
Meanwhile, my wife and I each have an Alienware desktop PC.
Why? Well, first, we each needed a new computer. The motherboard was dead on her venerable Dell desktop, and Dell's case was sufficiently strange to preclude replacing that component by itself. Later, I wanted a box to play games on, without disturbing my Linux desktop machine.
Second: The price was right. Before we bought these computers, I did the usual sanity check against Newegg. After buying putting a whole PC worth of good components of similar specification into my cart, the price difference was about $100.
Yeah - $100.
For that hundred bucks, one gets a very fancy ATX case which is easy to work on. Working audio ports on the front which interface properly with the sound card (instead of stupid rear-panel pass-through crap), such that the sound card can detect when headphones are plugged in and reconfigure itself automatically. An in-home service agreement. A PC which doesn't need assembled, but just unpacked and plugged in.
And unlike most prebuilt machines, when they're first turned on, they just boot Windows. I don't have to spend a couple of hours removing extraneous crap software. It comes up and behaves about the same way a new PC would if I'd have taken the time to build it myself and install Windows with a base load of drivers, except I didn't have to do it myself.
Meanwhile, they use about the same parts I'd have chosen myself if I were building a new PC. Good DVD-R, XFX video, fancy-pants motherboard with lots of expansion. The power supply is nameless, but is every bit as heavy as a good power supply ought to be. It included the same Logitech mouse I'd have bought myself. So on, so forth.
And it's pretty.
I don't think Alienware's pricing is out-of-line at all.
YMMV.
may actually be stolen (Score:5, Informative)
Lots of laptops sold on eBay are stolen property. If the one you bought was stolen, then the original owner may have reported it stolen, which means the serial # is in a database that Dell maintains of "hot" laptops. No Dell-authorized repair company will work on them.
To their credit, though, they put the database online so you can see if a serial # is in there. Anyone considering buying a Dell laptop on eBay should look up that laptop's serial number first to see if it's stolen. Caveat Emptor.
I will never buy another Alienware... (Score:5, Informative)
However, their handling of the replacement is. I shipped the laptop and called a few days later to ensure that they had received it, to which they claimed they had. Two weeks from the time I sent it in I had still heard nothing, so I called them, at which point they claimed to have never received it. I managed to misplace the shipping paperwork I had because I believed the laptop had showed up, etc...
They accused me of lying and having never sent in the laptop until I was able to get replacement paperwork, etc. from the post office. The reality was that they had misplaced it in their shipping warehouse. So after the two week delay I then had to wait 6 more weeks for the out of stock part to come in so that they could replace it.
And so, with prompt service, and considerate customer service like that, who needs anyone else.
Re:Well, a lot of stuff on eBay is stolen... (Score:4, Informative)
Depends where you are. In Germany you can, since a court ruled that "retail"/"OEM" distinctions have no basis in law.
Re:Alienware (Score:5, Informative)
The monster cable of pre-built PCs
Couldn't agree more with this assessment. Alienware is hideously overpriced and their systems aren't really that good. I have an Alienware D900T that a friend of mine owns sitting in my closet. The video card stopped working and it's going to cost $500 for the replacement for a wimpy GeForce 6800. He doesn't want to spend the money so I've disassembled it for the good parts and junked the rest. In disassembling the machine, it's obvious that Alienware doesn't back up their bloated prices with anything resembling quality, too.
Nobody in their right mind should be buying Alienware. There's nothing about their machines that you can't get from regular branded PCs and custom built PCs, except for a huge price hike on the Alienware.
I've got an Alienware... (Score:4, Informative)
And I have to say, my impression of the company as a whole is that they suck royal balls. I love my laptop, I spoiled myself and got the best m15x money could buy, right? They made a mistake on the nameplate. They refused to even sell me another, they said that they don't offer them as seperate accessories and since I didn't immediately notify them, tough for me. I went out of town the day after I got my laptop, and didnt notice right away. Anyway, long story short, I love my laptop, works great with Linux, but I recommend as a customer that Alienware is one of those, buy it and hope you never have to deal with them companies.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Informative)
In the case of Alienware, if they sent a random customer who asked for a part a note saying "Sorry, but your PC is reported stolen, please bring it to the cops,"
That's not what happened. They said to send a warranty number that would prove he bought it from them. Alienware hasn't said that the laptop was reported stolen.
same with software! (Score:2, Informative)
I call bullshit on your bullshit (Score:2, Informative)
Misprision of felonies" [cornell.edu]
This is normal for Dell (Score:4, Informative)
This is actually Dell's entire process and proceedure. I bought an off lease Dell laptop from a retailer who got it through dfsdirect.ca (dell financial services). The damn thing had a bad fan, so I called up Dell to buy the fan and just replace it myself. They wouldn't sell me the fan because I didn't know the name and address of the original owner.
I'll never buy a Dell anything again.
Oh, nevermind (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Alienware just has horrible CS overall (Score:3, Informative)
My god am I happy that we do not have this credit card crap in Germany. Here you can also pay with a debit entry, or at arrival (for a small fee of 2.5€), can deliver to wherever you want (if you pay the transport price of course), and when you got it, and it is not what you wanted, you can
- in case you payed on arrival: Inspect it before signing and paying. And refuse to accept it, in case it's not what you wanted.
- in case of a debit entry: Send it back in the first 14 days (but you have to pay the transport back), without having to state any reason, and undo the debit entry.
Which also means, fraud is much harder if you know to use those payment methods.
Stuff like getting in trouble because you want it delivered where you work, because you can't be at home in work hours, is a total non-problem here.
I wonder how one could make this better in the USA too. I guess other than opening a new bank, offering new methods and technologies, and paying huge sums for being protected from other banks and the government crushing you because you do so, it's pretty much impossible. :( :)
But hey, one can always move to another country.
Switzerland and Estonia sounded good in their Wikipedia entries. And Switzerland is a very very beautiful country too. (Was there for 2x2 weeks [winter and summer].)
Re:Warranty (Score:5, Informative)
For example. 13" Macbook. 4GB memory. 320GB, 5400rpm HDD. $1774. 13" XPS M1330, 4GB memory (but slower), 500GB 7200rpm HDD, $1174. But guess what, I can upgrade to 4GB of DDR3 memory for $69. I'm still $530 cheaper than the MacBook.
So, please, have at it. Nothing too esoteric there.
Alienware Sucks (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's a laptop (Score:4, Informative)
While I've built a dozen desktops for other people, I've been using laptops for myself (though I'll finally be building myself a desktop next month). I've always wanted to build my own laptop, assuming it's financially viable and logistically doable...
Can anyone provide any resources (websites, articles, etc etc) for building your own laptop, instead of saying it's "easily assembled by anyone who knows anything about the inside of a notebook"? I'm quite familiar with the insides of notebooks, having disassembled a few, but that doesn't help me figure out where to buy retail parts...
You don't need the caddy - just the $5 connector (Score:4, Informative)
The caddy only hold the drive in place - and since it's such a tight fit anyway, you'll find that if you just buy the connector (you can get 2 for $20 pretty much anywhere - even feeBay), you'll be okay.
I ran my 2nd drive in my laptop for months with just the connector. If you're worried about it moving, a piece of electrical tape makes a good shim.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Informative)
However, the fix is $5. Just buy ONLY the connector ($5 from various online suppliers). The drive doesn't need a caddy - the caddy is made out of such thin sheet metal because even the thickness of a piece of electrical tape will be enough to wedge the drive firmly in place in its' bay. I ran with 2 hard drives for months - without even the tape - before tracking down a caddy from a similar model.
Hah, you think that's bad? (Score:3, Informative)
You think that's bad? A pile of my friends worked for Alienware, specifically he was in customer support which included handling disgruntled customers, taking orders, and trying to find solutions to problems.
He was told "stop putting orders through so quickly" because the contract allows us to charge them and make it later. Sure it takes 6 months for the customer to receive their laptop, but don't worry, people who buy Alienware convince themselves that it's a better product, and worth the wait.
He was told "all of those machines being delivered with problems, tell them it's a problem with the software" because a lot of the laptops were being delivered faulty.
That's just 2 really bad stories.
Although this friend obviously quit and in spectacular fashion, I've several other friends who still work there, and inform me that it's business as usual.
I would never purchase anything from Alienware ever! I don't care if they are selling tissues, they'll find a way to fuck it up!
Re:Cars (Score:5, Informative)
Dell's policy is to not talk to people who aren't authorized on the account that owns the computer. Considering the number of laptops that get stolen, that's a good policy, IMO.
Now if the user bought the computer legally on e-Bay, he should have some kind of sales receipt, or at least know the name of the person he bought it from. If he knows the name of the person he bought it from he can go online to the Alienware website and fill out a transfer of ownership form. If he doesn't know the name, or he bought it from a retailer, he can fax in a copy of the sales receipt to customer care, and have them transfer the ownership for him.
But instead of doing a little legwork at his end to get the system actually transferred to his name, he chooses to go online and grouse about how a company is treating him like a thief.
Happening more and more... (Score:4, Informative)
This is a consequence of less and less of the value in a "hardware product" being the actual hardware. I'm seeing it in the musical "devices" I buy - try getting your Pod reauthorized by Line 6 so you can download firmware updates if you don't have a receipt from a seller. Try to get firmware updates for your second-hand Roland keyboard. Try to get firmware updates for a DVR. My assumption is that before long, if you don't have an official registration for a motherboard or video card, you won't be able to get drivers. The bottom line is that, as more value is found in the software included with the hardware, the hardware device will be treated more and more like licensed software, with all that means for registration, etc. And as this happens, it's no surprise that once sane "hardware" vendors start acting like software vendors with respect to licensing. I don't like it, but it does appear to be the way things are going - car analogies notwithstanding.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Informative)
I'm fairly certain that even if it is stolen, if you buy goods without knowledge that they are stolen (i.e., in good faith) you are considered a buyer in the ordinary course of business and you'll take free of any prior interests. It's called the "garage sale rule". The person from whom it was stolen can still hold the thief liable for damages, but can't get their original goods back. If that's the case here, this guy is legally the rightful owner and Alienware should treat him as such.
You didn't have to write it, but You Are Not A Lawyer, and you should warn people before posting legal advice (especially incorrect legal advice.) There is no such legal concept as the "garage sale rule" with respect to stolen property. According to the law, as the purchaser of merchandise you have the same rights to the property as the person who sold it to you. That means if have a thing which you have used as collateral on a debt (called a secured interest) and you haven't paid it all back yet, even if you sell it to me the property is still secured by the bank, and can be repossessed by them if the loan is not repaid. It also means that if you have no rights to the property at all, as in the case of stolen property, then I as the buyer have no rights to it either.
A garage sale does provide protection from the seller being compelled to look up the serial number if such a lookup is required of an "ordinary course of business" seller; in the case of a garage sale the seller is classified as not an "in the ordinary course" seller and is exempted from that requirement. Maybe that's what you are thinking of as a "garage sale rule".
Of course I am not a lawyer either, so don't take this as gospel, but at least I do a bit of fact checking before making a really outlandish claim.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Cars (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, it's Dell as a whole. I recently put in a call to Dell for support on a Latitude D820 that now fails to boot. It's covered under warranty for another year but Dell refuses to work on it because I'm not listed as the purchaser or authorized agent for the system. My business bought this system through an employee (via a reimbursement) who no longer works with the organization. I don't have any reasonable way to have this ex-employee 'vouch' that I own the system.
Whatever happened to the days where I could just give them my Express Service Code and actually get help instead of getting accusations of theft?
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Sounds just like Dell.. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Cars (Score:1, Informative)
So in other words, using your examples, a jew, woman, homosexual, or disabled person has more rights than a white male. They can sue Alienware under current laws; the white guy can not.
What a great society we've created. I thought we were all supposed to have *equal* rights. :-( It reminds me of when a Motel 6 manager kicked me out of his hotel, despite me being there for six months and causing no trouble (he simply wanted to sell my room to summer tourists). A lawyer told me straight-up if I was black, I'd have a case based upon racial discrimination, but as a white man I should just forget about it and move on, because I won't win.
Re:Cars (Score:3, Informative)
As far as car parts and VINs go, it's possible they might ask for the VIN if you need specific information about the car's motor that you don't happen to know. VINs encode information about the car's engine, as well as offer a unique serial number.