Palm Announces Killer New Phone 617
Barence writes "At CES, Palm announced what promises to be the product that finally matches and even betters the Apple iPhone, and certainly looks to be the most important product announced at this year's Consumer Electronics Show. It's called the Palm Pre and it's based on a completely new operating system, called Palm webOS. Its key specs include a 3.1in 320x 480 touchscreen, 8GB of storage, UMTS HDSPA support (in the UK version of the phone), 802.11b/g WLAN, Bluetooth, and GPS. It also includes a slide-out Qwerty keyboard, 3.5mm headphone jack, and what Palm described as the 'fastest ever' Texas Instruments OMAP processor."
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:*Finally* matches/betters the iPhone? (Score:5, Interesting)
I am in full agreement. Sure, the Iphone is a nice phone, but it's just one of many. To be fair, the fault is with PC Pro rather than Slashdot who are just quoting this nonsensical statement ("finally matches and even betters the Apple iPhone").
Although in a way, it's a cunning statement - whilst fans would want to accept PC Pro's belief that the Iphone is the Best Phone Ever, they can't agree with this statement without admitting that the Palm is better than the Iphone. For the rest of us, who have been using phones long before the Iphone joined the market late, we'll just ignore the statement and judge the Palm against the market as a whole.
WebOS -- "WEB"-OS (Score:5, Interesting)
Can Palm do anything right? (Score:5, Interesting)
I absolutely loved my Palm Pilot Pro and gladly paid for the Palm III upgrade module for it. I eagerly bought a Palm V but I was disappointed when I got a Tungsten E and even more disappointed to discover that the 802.11 add in card simply wouldn't work with the Tungsten E.
My Palm TX is a huge disappointment and I would have returned it (or never bought it in the first place) except that I have a major need for one specific specialized application that uses 802.11.
I've heard awful things from people with Palm based phones.
Palm has bungled one generation after another. I've just lost any confidence in them being able to do anything competent.
videos (Score:2, Interesting)
but can you make phone calls with it? (Score:3, Interesting)
Can I open it up, punch buttons, and make a phone call? Can I drop it w/o it shattering? Can I lose it, without losing my entire personal identity?
Killer? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm a Mac fan, but generally use the best tool I can and I don't have an iPhone or an iPod Touch, so I don't believe I really have a dog in this fight (for the record I have a Blackberry Curve [which is so=so at best], but mainly live in Japan and so have one of last year's au/WIN phones).
But this article's summary reminds of CmdrTaco's famous predictions for the original iPod. I read TFA and the phone pictured there doesn't look like an iPod killer. It doesn't even look like a phone from the last five years - it looks like fat, bulgy little free-with-service American phone from 2000 or 2001.
No one is going to beat Apple on specs. For better or for ill, the company is brilliant at style and presentation and those are huge factors in the iPhone's successes.
Moreover, the iPhone is out NOW and macrumors and other Apple sites are already beginning to rumble with information about the new iPhone software - the iPhone is moving ahead, with that and the App Store and where is this Palm phone?
A cell phone is a status symbol once again and until a good phone matches the iPhone in that arena, it's not going to kill it. I don't expect this Palm phone to, to be sure.
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:2, Interesting)
It dont matter. Palm pissed off all smartphone owners with their crap that was the 600,650,680 and the 700. I'm done with their low grade dog food phones that last 1 year MAX.
They can make the perfect phone and most people will not buy it as the Treo line has a bad rep that will haunt it until death.
I just wish the G1 was actually built decently. I'd love a unlocked android phone, but they feel like they are plastic toys that will break. Android I think is the only thing with potential to kill the iPhone, if they put it in some decent hardware.
Thanks but no thanks. (Score:5, Interesting)
After purchasing two of Palm's high end smart phones in the past, I've learned my lesson. They *DO NOT* support their phones. As soon as there's even an idea of a newer phone coming out, they drop all support for existing platforms and no more updates are ever seen for yours.
For example, they're currently releasing updates for the Centro series (a $99 phone) but not their 750series (a $500 phone) that are just over a year old. Way to reward your business customers palm.
Re:WebOS -- "WEB"-OS (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:3, Interesting)
but I doubt Palm have as nice developer tools as Apple
From Ars:
Any web developer can use CSS, HTML, and JavaScript to develop applications for the OS; there are no new languages to learn
I'm no developer, but can't you just pick your favorite IDE and go to town with that? I would imagine there'll even be some devs who just use Nano or Notepad.
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:3, Interesting)
If Palm wants to do so, they're going to have to do everything the iPhone does and do it better. That means the interface and the integration, as well.
Of course, Palm are the long-standing masters of handheld UI and desktop integration. For a long time, nothing could beat the Palm handhelds for simplicity and effectiveness of UI, and their desktop software integrated well with most popular desktop productivity software.
True, they've lagged behind a lot recently, but it'll be interesting to see what they've come up with anyway.
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, it may not be an iPhone killer, but it's also not going to be a Blackberry killer, either. It's just going to be another touchscreen phone that's lost in a sea of touchscreen phones that aren't made by Apple or RIM. After going through the personal agony of owning a few Palm devices (pre-Treo), I, like many others, have given up on Palm. They're big on talk, but that's about it.
On the other hand, since my expectations are pretty damn low, I guess they shouldn't have too much trouble meeting them.
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:4, Interesting)
Funny, when Apple announced that you could develop on the iPhone with CSS, HTML, and JavaScript from day 1, developers revolted and demanded a "real" SDK. It will be interesting to see how that goes for Palm.
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:5, Interesting)
I would agree with you, only that I have a G1 now. The only thing the kept me from getting one before was the poor appearance from pictures. On daily use, however, I've found the build quality and the hardware itself is good and not toy-ish at all. If it came with a glossy black front and a chrome back then it would be even better, but you have to consider the number people putting rubber gimp masks on their iPhone to protect their little precious from getting hurt, so what's the point?
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:3, Interesting)
I already have an iPhone killer ... ....it's called a phone - longer battery life, makes and receives calls, can be used on any network
sorry! (Score:4, Interesting)
Ooh, I can use it as an actual music player now :D
Now, if I could just *afford* it...
I hate being in college sometimes.
from the answer:
"Though the demonstration was impressive, notable absentees from the demo were video streaming and any in-depth show of the music player."
It also has an externally replaceable battery, so one guesses the individual batteries won't last as long as an iphone or else it's thick as a brick. (they don't give the dimensions or show it in profile)
No mention of the enterprise-like push apps that Rim and iphone now sport. No mention of corresponding desktop based easy-management software like itunes or me.com
and of course it is yet-another OS. is there an SDK?
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:4, Interesting)
There's another reason the iPhone has a good popular perception (over here in the UK at least).
Walk into a phone shop and I guarantee they'll either have no phones or the iPhone available to use.
Huh?
The iPhone is the only phone I've seen with working demo models on the high street. All other phones have only plastic carcasses nailed to the wall. Even the G1. How am I supposed to make a judgement about that?
This is in London and Reading, FYI.
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:4, Interesting)
The device has a keyboard. It isn't a good keyboard, but even so it's a whole lot better than the keyboard on the iPhone - and the lack of a keyboard is a significant part of the reason I don't have an iPhone.
I've used several smartphones extensively, both with and without keyboards. I've had the most direct experience with a Treo 650, an HTC Apache, and an iPhone.
When I first started using each device, the hardware keyboards were without a doubt, much easier to use. After getting used to the iPhone keyboard, though, I have to say that it's perfectly adequate for text entry. One of the keys is to let it autocorrect for you. 90% of the time, it corrects to what I meant to type. Most of the failures are due to the use of acronyms that I haven't bothered to capitalize (and it will learn those.)
The contacts management software which was demo'ed is way better than the iPhone's.
That's not hard to imagine. Nevertheless, the iPhone was one of the first smartphones (and definitely the first one I encountered) to have a "favorites" list. This let me really cut back on the cruft while still having everyone in the corp and their dog in my phone.
But the iPhone, despite being very pretty, isn't actually a very good telephone
reception is poor
There were problems with reception on 3G at first. Those were fixed in an update. I now never have problems getting a full 3G signal, and I don't get dropouts anymore. This is in the US.
battery life isn't good
It's quite on par with other recent smartphones.
sound quality is so-so
What do you mean by this, exactly?
It's a great phone for people who don't use a mobile phone for their work - but most people do.
When the iPhone first came out, they definitely weren't targeting business people who use their cell phones constantly for work. They were targeting the every-person. With the 2.0 software release, they started targeting business users more heavily, and they've got a little ways to go to be sure. I think it's an overall well-balanced device, though.
Of course, the iPhone's killer app is the iTunes store. For non-technical users it is quite simply the easiest way to locate, buy and install software to the phone. Palm (and Google and RIM and Microsoft) have to equal that, and it will not be easy.
I don't think that they'll be able to equal the App Store for a long, long while. Apple's got a rather large portion of the "smarter than a normal cellphone" market. The same thing that keeps people writing apps for Windows will keep people writing apps for the iPhone.
All that said, I picked the iPhone for two reasons. One is the browser, and the other is the mail client. At the time, no other phone came close to Safari on the iPhone for rendering quickly and correctly. As it is, I've only seen one other browser come close--the 9.x release of Opera Mobile. It also uses a viewport with smooth zooming and Opera's fantastic rendering engine. It's quite a bit slower, though, and uses quite a bit of memory.
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:4, Interesting)
My prediction is that Android will not kill the iPhone for some time. Partly because the dev tools aren't as polished as Apples but to be honest as a potential developer myself, the toolset is less important than the API's. Unfortunately the Android API's are an area that seems somewhat deficient in a number of places (real-time low latency PCM audio anyone - how can something so fundamental have been so badly done?!). Anyone wanting to write any half-way serious game or audio based app is stuck using a shitty "send-this-file-to-the-output" style API.
There are other areas too where Apple just seem to have put a lot more thought into how things hang together - it's like the API's for the iPhone have been developed by people who have their usability as a prime concern, which sadly, with what I've seen so far, I can't say for Android.
Re:ipod to zune and iphone to Palm's killer new ph (Score:3, Interesting)
I love analogies
So does Douglas Hofstadter [stanford.edu]
Re:Developer Friendly...Apple?!? Joking, Right? (Score:5, Interesting)
Geez. Get over yourself. Objective-C isn't that difficult to get your head around if you've done any Java/C++/Smalltalk/Ruby/other OO development. They have some pretty good reasons for using it (the underlying OS uses it), and the tools and documentation that they give you to work with it (XCode/apple developer site) are excellent. As someone who develops software for a living (in Java) I'd be *THRILLED* if the docs that I had to work with from vendors that we deal with were a quarter as good as Apple's.
As for having to buy a Mac - do you think it's possible to develop for windows mobile without having a windows-based PC? I can totally understand Apple's point-of-view here - their time would be much better spent making the tools work, and work well rather than porting them to and testing them on other platforms.
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:5, Interesting)
Oops -- potential huge fail!
From Ars [arstechnica.com] (emphasis mine):
It's apparent that this radical shift in platform will mean that all existing Palm applications will be rendered obsolete. During the presentation this morning, it was said, "There are a few hundred-thousand Palm developers and a few million web developers." If there was a dark spot during the launch it would be this, but it's definitely not going to extinguish the excitement felt on the floor for this handset.
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:3, Interesting)
Translation: no matter how good it is, it won't sell unless it's shiny and has 'Apple' written on it?
Re:3.5 mm? o.o (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, for a man..having a woman in any sort of relationship, costs money. Most do...not all, but, IME, most do. And if you get married and want to trade models...well, that costs you about half of what you own. Getting laid is never cheap, but, one can make choices to at least alleviate the cost.
Hey, marriage works for some people...good for you. I personally don't see a need for it unless you are going to have kids. I think it is essential in that predicament. But do remember, the second you have a kid, you cease to be able to BE one yourself....at least for 18 years.
I couldn't personally see getting married...same chick gets boring after awhile, especially in close confines.
I've always thought of publishing that special version of Playboy for 'married men'
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:4, Interesting)
And good news for Palm OS developers! There are a number of ways to migrate data from a an existing PDB file to your new WebOS app.
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:4, Interesting)
The "rubber gimp masks" aren't to keep the phones from getting scratched, they are to keep a better grip on them. the damn things are slippery, especially with some of the wii-like games...
Re:Can Palm do anything right? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:From the TFA (Score:3, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:2, Interesting)
WebOS has a Linux kernel. So, really, there's a degree of open in there. It's just whether they're ever going to take it farther that would be the question. Who knows.
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:5, Interesting)
"let alone have a chance at even guessing the specs?"
Exactly right!
I used to sell cars. Cars and computers are often similar in how they are sold. Take a look at a window sticker of a new car, and see all the "options" and "Upgrades" listed. Computers are marketed the same exact way ... "ATI VIDEO UPGRADE" is the same as "Alpine Stereo" or whatever, it is better than what the "stock" option is.
However, I'd compare Apple vs Dell/HP/Gateway etc as comparing Honda vs GM/Ford/Chrysler.
Honda sells Accords, there are only a few ways one can get an Accord. They have Two engines, three trim models. Their sticker is empty compared to a Taurus or whatever. Taurus has three engine options and who knows how many trim levels, and beyond trim levels you have all sorts of weird option packages and upgrades.
The limited choice of Apple and Honda are part of what makes it a GOOD choice, it is a very known quantity. If you say you have a MacBook Pro, people know you have one of a couple of options. It really is narrowed down. You say you have a Pavillion, I doubt you could get anyone to guess the specs.
The difference is differentiation by Experience (Honda/Apple) vs Differentiation by Spec (HP/FORD)
Re:3.5 mm? o.o (Score:2, Interesting)
My father was 49 when I was born. I am 39 now. From my mother's stories and the pictures from my infant and early childhood years I know that I liked and loved him a lot. But later in life we were never good friends or really close. I attribute this to our age difference and our belonging to different historical eras. (It changed only for a little while after I came back from my two years millitary service.)
Re:3.5 mm? o.o (Score:4, Interesting)
I'll bite, at the expense of undoing about 8 mod points.
The book is based on presumptions and faulty logic. It may be true if you have 2 earners you're twice as likely to be affected by layoff or other employment related economic interruption. However, with 2 earners you're only losing 40-60% of your household income in the face of a layoff, versus 100% for a 1 income. This makes a 2 earner household more resilient.
The real reason for for skyrocketing bankruptcy in middle income households with children is the exploding cost of goods along with unbridled middle class spending. For almost 2 generations, families have been moving more frequently from house to house using each one as a short term credit card based on the faulty assumption that the value of the house will NECESSARILY go up. They use that equity to pay off some debt, but each time they get a raise or other windfall they purchase a newer bigger better house with a 3rd garage stall or a 4th bedroom or a bigger yard.
Regardless of the number of incomes in the house, its important that people make rational fiscal decisions which includes setting a reasonable budget. When they find themselves making much more than their budget, they should be investing it in short to medium term CD's(for now) to reinvest into their mortgage or blow down their debt.
No, children aren't the cause of bankruptcy. Its more likely that there is a correlation between fiscal irresponsibility and those who have children.
Re:3.5 mm? o.o (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't
And unless I am mixed up on how biology works getting married isn't making me any more likely to.
In fact, I am one of only a few people I know that got married before having a child on the way at least (family and friends).
I can mis-read statistics (anecdotes) and say that getting married is good protection against having a first child.
Re:3.5 mm? o.o (Score:4, Interesting)
These are not reasons to get married, I just simply wanted to point out it is not the end of childishness/fun. If you really want to commit to spending your life with someone, and makign the compromises that will be required (it's two way if done right) it is not something to dread or avoid. And it can certainly lead to having more money to spend on yourself, not less.
Okay, I realize the average age on Slashdot is pretty low, but - this seems fairly immature to me (and I realize you're not necessarily espousing this position, just responding to it). If a person is that concerned with having lots of money to spend on themselves, they're not ready for a significant relationship.
Also, as a husband and a dad, I can say having kids doesn't have to "end your fun". As my daughter grew up I got the chance to see a lot of movies I'd have been too embarrassed to admit wanting to see. I have a blast playing video games and watching old movies with her. She's also an enjoyable person just to spend time with.
I LOVE being a dad - I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How many iPhone killers is that? (Score:3, Interesting)
This has only happened to me when dragging trash and I miss the trash can before releasing the mouse button. I can wind up with an icon partially under the dock. Never has gone completely under the dock, but at any rate, I could always hide the dock to then grab and move the icon to another spot on the desktop.