Slatterz writes "Linux publisher Mandriva has unveiled a version of its platform designed specifically for the new breed of mini laptops. Mandriva Mini features a fast boot-up, comprehensive connectivity support and multimedia codecs, and is adapted to work on key netbook platforms such as Intel's Atom. Mandriva previously offered a customised version of its 2008 Spring release for the Asus Eee PC, and was a distributor of Linux for Intel's Classmate PC initiative."
The final frontier for OSes is netbooks and smartphones. Everyone has to go there if they want good growth. The smart phone war is a 4 way contest between Symbian, Windows Mobile, iPhone with only (hopefully) Linux based contest coming from (yet unreleased) Android.
So, as far as the OSes go the only open race is in the netbooks and it is good to see Linux distros coming good in this category.
It'll be where an open Linux netbook with a phone built-in crosses over with a locked-down iPhone [today.com] (which is what a general-purpose computer that's been DRMed to b*ggery looks like, in case anyone wondered what Trusted Computing would feel like - capricious, arbitrary and expensive).
I was exited when I saw the Eee-PC first. With a large install base of the same hardware base Asus could have built a new iPod revolution and break with the limitations of conventional operating systems because it was made-to-measure.
But after a few month Asus blew it. At the CeBit they presented the Eee-PC with an unusable Windows XP configurations and a lot of extenions that did not or did not fully support Linux. Today there are hald a dozen Eee-PCs and I guess a hundret other netbooks with different screen sizes, hard drives, chipsets.
I agree, When they first pitched it, I was excited because they were talking about a $200 price point. That would have been possible if they kept the specs low, and stuck with Linux. However, they kept on upping the screen size, processor, and RAM. Now the higher end EEEs are almost on par with some of the regular notebooks, and the price seems to be ever increasing.
I agree, When they first pitched it, I was excited because they were talking about a $200 price point. That would have been possible if they kept the specs low, and stuck with Linux.
Exactly. This is another case of a partner pandering to Microsoft and getting shafted as a result.
Aside from Microsoft themselves, who was clamouring for Windows on these machines? There was no need to put that OS on their laptops, but now that they have, they need a subsequent bump in specs. Making the EEE exactly the same as a
When they first pitched it, I was excited because they were talking about a $200 price point.
Oh come on, how long have you been following technology trends/news? Seriously? Always add 20% to the price of hardware that has more than 2 months till release. You know that. Marketing spits out a number to the press based on a best case scenario from engineering, and then engineering does their best to match that. You CAN get an Eee for $249 with free shipping, and they DID keep the specs low and stuck w
by Anonymous Coward
on Sunday September 21 2008, @07:04AM (#25092061)
There really isn't much difference in a customized "netbook" distro, so we'll soon be seeing many more.
The minor list of customizations needed for a netbook (besides making sure everything just works, as on all laptops):
1) fast bootup. in order to reach a sub 30 second bootup you need only two things: a lighter kernel, and pruned system services (no crond, nfs, etc). 2) optimizations for SSD. i.e., noatime in fstab for ext3/2, use of tmpfs for/tmp and/var/log. firefox cache in tmpfs too. 3) lighter application and OS defaults. i.e.: XFCE instead of gnome, and abiword instead of openoffice.
btw - check out http://onelinux.org and #onelinux on freenode for an ubuntu-based distro tailored just for 'best' netbook currently available - the awesome Acer Aspire One.
Which, to note for the record, is a project of a Mandriva developer.:) If you read westyvw's link you'll know, but to explain it in this thread - netbook customized distros do not achieve fast boot by cutting services from a traditional SysV init, that doesn't get you anywhere enough gain. They use completely customized fast initialization systems. finit is a re-implementation of the one found in the Xandros distro on the Eee; Claudio Matsuoka, one of our developers, first reimplemented fastinit and is now
Mandriva touted their Spring 08 release as being perfectly suited for the EEE. The only problem was that the partitioning step of the installation only provided journaling file systems; EXT2 was not an option, and with the limited number of write cycles with the SSD in some models, you want to avoid any unnecessary writes. I hope this new release allows EXT2!
with the limited number of write cycles with the SSD in some models, you want to avoid any unnecessary writes
I've heard this said often, but the only time I've seen any actual numbers crunched, the conclusion was that it wasn't worth worrying about [eeeuser.com]:
With the Eee PC SSD, a typical user (6 hours/day, 10% write rate) will write for 36 minutes per day resulting in a useful lifespan of ~25 years in the worst assumed case [only 50% effective wear levelling, 100k writes to a sector before failure].
Besides, even if that wasn't the case, one of the things about the Eeepc is its moddability [ivancover.com] -- back up often (which you should be doing anyway), and then if/when the SSD drive goes, swap it for a new one. It'll also probably be a nice upgrade over the smallish original, given the speed that SSD drives are improving in capacity and speed.
A: "with the limited number of write cycles with the SSD in some models, you want to avoid any unnecessary writes"
B: "I've heard this said often, but the only time I've seen any actual numbers crunched, the conclusion was that it wasn't worth worrying about [eeeuser.com]:"
Me: Just to add my experience with flash memory here.
This may be different, but as far as I know, all flash memory is basically the same, so...
I have a Sony digital camera, it's 6 years old now, and my rough calculations tell me that
> I have a Sony digital camera, it's 6 years old now, and my rough calculations tell me that it's life cycle was less than 64,000 cycles (Shoot image, download, delete) before the drive started >failing. >Perhaps flash memory is more stable now, and these older memory sticks don't have the wear leveling algorithm, of some such, but that doesn't seem like too many cycles to me.
It's usually write cycles - reading doesn't count, so in your example it'll be just shoot and delete. And delete won't write
> And it happened to both of my SONY cards so it's not an isolated incident. > Perhaps my real world testing trumps lab testing, for real world results?
I don't know the details of your card failing, but it might have failed for reasons other than too many writes to the same place. It's hard to imagine you've filled it up 64,000 times. It could have been static damage, or you stamped on it or something. It's not guaranteed to work for ever. A hard drive doesn't have a known limited number of writes
A file has a last access time attribute which stores the time of the last time the file was accessed. One way to minimize writes is to disable last access time modification. See noatime or reltime mount option.
Mandriva has been using noatime as the default on ALL mounted Linux partitions since something like 2008.0 or 2007.1. I do, however, think that "relatime" (you mistyped it) is a better way to go than plain noatime.
I've been using Mandriva since 2002 and never had a reason to go back. Right now I have it up and running on more than 20 desktops and servers, more than half of those running critical business apps (like in millions of dollars). Beside being an able server distro (with appropriate version of kernel loaded) it makes for a great desktop - just google for PLF.
Not true. While it doesn't have the penetration of Ubuntu, It's still consistently in the top six or seven downloaded from distrowatch.
http://distrowatch.com/stats.php?section=popularity [distrowatch.com]
Try it.
It's way better than SuSE. I have The 2008 PowerPack, It includes LinDVD already set up, it has nVidia and ATI drivers avalable on install, it's the only distro that picked up my no name StarLogic 1680x1050 monitor and set the resolution correctly.
Mandriva is flat out slick.
Mandriva is a very strong distro. It has a long history, great hardware support, nice GUI install, refined GUI and text admin tools, a huge repository of packages, and several versions to meet just about any Linux need. They were the first (besides Debian) to have automatic package dependency resolution, the first to have 586/686 optimized kernels, and they still treat Gnome and KDE as equal citizens within a single distro without splitting things up. It isn't as popular as it used to be, but that is not because they are doing anything "wrong", there are just more strong players in the "market" now (which is a good thing).
Distrowatch has not been proven to be a reliable indication of number of users of any distro... although it can be a useful statistic. Personally, I known more people that have gone from Mandriva to some other distro (like Ubuntu) and then returned to Mandriva, than those who have left and stayed gone.
As for a "netbook" specific flavor of Mandriva- I think they did the right thing at the beginning, which was to just have the mainline iso (2008.1) adapt the install when it senses it is being installed on a netbook (like an EEE). Adjust screen res, adapt the draketools, change sync strategy, etc. I am not sure having a separate iso just for a single type of install is a good idea. It is more to maintain, more to download, etc.
As for a "netbook" specific flavor of Mandriva- I think they did the right thing at the beginning, which was to just have the mainline iso (2008.1) adapt the install when it senses it is being installed on a netbook (like an EEE). Adjust screen res, adapt the draketools, change sync strategy, etc. I am not sure having a separate iso just for a single type of install is a good idea. It is more to maintain, more to download, etc.
One thing I never figured is why you need to download a different disc for installing Ubuntu via the command line. In an earlier version I wanted some options that weren't exposed through the GUI, but still essentially install the desktop distro. It's not like the text-based install can take much space, so I guess it's loaded up with other strange things. Plus even if you want to install a server, if you got an Internet connection it might be just as easy to use the normal one to get you booted and installi
Thanks for the support, Mark.:) The Slashdot story actually missed the most important thing about Mandriva Mini - there isn't an ISO. Well, not for you to download, anyway. This is an offering intended for OEMs, not end users. We want to sell Mini to system manufacturers and redistributors to be the pre-installed distro on the system. We're not targeting it directly at end users. The idea for end users is still that if you as an end user want to install Mandriva on your netbook, use the main distribution, as you suggested you thought was the best idea. We continue to set a high priority on customising the kernel and MDV tools in the main line distribution to work well with the most popular netbooks (2009 should work well out of the box on all currently available Eee models, the Aspire One, and the MSI Wind, to name a few).
I'm a Linux newb who's just bought an Aspire One. I'm interested in getting Mandriva now I've heard good things about it here. Wouldn't it make sense for me to try Mini? If you're saying I should just get the main disto, well fine - I'll do that, but in that case why do the Mini distro at all? Why not built any customizations etc into the main distro instead - wouldn't that save you work, and end users confusion?
Mandriva was the best distribution ever until 10 fucked it up. I was a long time user and their newest version was so buggy it was like going back five years...
Mandriva is based in France, and much of its userbase is French, and other non-English speaking languages. (As you find out if you search for help on it and keep turning up non-English pages.)
I suspect that Distrowatch which AFAIK has no non-English pages will show a lower hit count for such distros. Is there any other good reason for the now dated but English based relative of Mandriva, that is PCLinuxOS, to show a higher hit count?
Their website, mailing lists, documentation and most of the forums on the Mandriva club site are all in English. There are some French forums on the Mandriva club site (along side the English ones) but that's about it. There're also plenty of 3rd-party English speaking sites, eg. http://mandrivausers.org/ [mandrivausers.org] I don't speak or read a word of French and I've never had a problem.
2008 Spring was in fact the first major distribution to be specifically designed to work with the Eee (701) out of the box. Mandriva was ahead of virtually every other distro.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
ASCII ART will return! If it was good enough for blurry Teletype pr0n in the 1970s, it's good enough for you now!
The final frontier (Score:4, Interesting)
So, as far as the OSes go the only open race is in the netbooks and it is good to see Linux distros coming good in this category.
Re:The final frontier (Score:4, Insightful)
It'll be where an open Linux netbook with a phone built-in crosses over with a locked-down iPhone [today.com] (which is what a general-purpose computer that's been DRMed to b*ggery looks like, in case anyone wondered what Trusted Computing would feel like - capricious, arbitrary and expensive).
Parent
A little bit late? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:A little bit late? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Exactly. This is another case of a partner pandering to Microsoft and getting shafted as a result.
Aside from Microsoft themselves, who was clamouring for Windows on these machines? There was no need to put that OS on their laptops, but now that they have, they need a subsequent bump in specs. Making the EEE exactly the same as a
Re: (Score:2)
When they first pitched it, I was excited because they were talking about a $200 price point.
Oh come on, how long have you been following technology trends/news? Seriously? Always add 20% to the price of hardware that has more than 2 months till release. You know that. Marketing spits out a number to the press based on a best case scenario from engineering, and then engineering does their best to match that. You CAN get an Eee for $249 with free shipping, and they DID keep the specs low and stuck w
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Try to run current Linux/GNU desktop envs with such "low specs".
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe he was exited? Who are we to say what he was doing at the time?
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
All distros can be modifed for a 'netbook' (Score:4, Insightful)
There really isn't much difference in a customized "netbook" distro, so we'll soon be seeing many more.
The minor list of customizations needed for a netbook (besides making sure everything just works, as on all laptops):
1) fast bootup. in order to reach a sub 30 second bootup you need only two things: a lighter kernel, and pruned system services (no crond, nfs, etc). /tmp and /var/log. firefox cache in tmpfs too.
2) optimizations for SSD. i.e., noatime in fstab for ext3/2, use of tmpfs for
3) lighter application and OS defaults. i.e.: XFCE instead of gnome, and abiword instead of openoffice.
btw - check out http://onelinux.org and #onelinux on freenode for an ubuntu-based distro tailored just for 'best' netbook currently available - the awesome Acer Aspire One.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Easier said than done. Creating a distro is hard work.
mods, wtf? (Score:1, Redundant)
Troll!?
Seriously?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
when? (Score:1)
Re:when? (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, its 2009.0 that will be (or is at least scheduled to be) released in October. 2008.1 has been in release for some time now.
Parent
Re: (Score:1)
Mandriva Spring 08 (Score:5, Interesting)
SSD drives and writes (Score:5, Insightful)
with the limited number of write cycles with the SSD in some models, you want to avoid any unnecessary writes
I've heard this said often, but the only time I've seen any actual numbers crunched, the conclusion was that it wasn't worth worrying about [eeeuser.com]:
With the Eee PC SSD, a typical user (6 hours/day, 10% write rate) will write for 36 minutes per day resulting in a useful lifespan of ~25 years in the worst assumed case [only 50% effective wear levelling, 100k writes to a sector before failure].
Besides, even if that wasn't the case, one of the things about the Eeepc is its moddability [ivancover.com] -- back up often (which you should be doing anyway), and then if/when the SSD drive goes, swap it for a new one. It'll also probably be a nice upgrade over the smallish original, given the speed that SSD drives are improving in capacity and speed.
Parent
Re:SSD drives and writes - My Experience (Score:1)
A: "with the limited number of write cycles with the SSD in some models, you want to avoid any unnecessary writes"
B: "I've heard this said often, but the only time I've seen any actual numbers crunched, the conclusion was that it wasn't worth worrying about [eeeuser.com]:"
Me: Just to add my experience with flash memory here.
This may be different, but as far as I know, all flash memory is basically the same, so...
I have a Sony digital camera, it's 6 years old now, and my rough calculations tell me that
Re: (Score:1)
> I have a Sony digital camera, it's 6 years old now, and my rough calculations tell me that it's life cycle was less than 64,000 cycles (Shoot image, download, delete) before the drive started
>failing.
>Perhaps flash memory is more stable now, and these older memory sticks don't have the wear leveling algorithm, of some such, but that doesn't seem like too many cycles to me.
It's usually write cycles - reading doesn't count, so in your example it'll be just shoot and delete. And delete won't write
Re: (Score:1)
"64,000 writes is quite a low figure compared to other flash memory specs I've seen, but it should be years before it fails."
Yes... it did take years, but 64k writes is tiny, so it seems like a potential problem to me.
And it happened to both of my SONY cards so it's not an isolated incident.
Perhaps my real world testing trumps lab testing, for real world results?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
> And it happened to both of my SONY cards so it's not an isolated incident.
> Perhaps my real world testing trumps lab testing, for real world results?
I don't know the details of your card failing, but it might have failed for reasons other than too many writes to the same place. It's hard to imagine you've filled it up 64,000 times. It could have been static damage, or you stamped on it or something. It's not guaranteed to work for ever. A hard drive doesn't have a known limited number of writes
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Mandriva Spring 08 (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:1)
Awesome (Score:4, Insightful)
Does it work with the webcams on the netbooks? (Score:2)
Did you get the webcam to work with Mandriva, I'd like to find out. And if so, what model netbook are you using?
Re: (Score:1)
To enable webcam : $echo 1 > /proc/acpi/asus/camera /proc/acpi/asus/camera
To disable webcam : $echo 0 >
I think it exists some more user-friendly tools for this, though I have not looked for them.
Manbuntu, Manubuntu, Ubdriva, or Ubundriva? (Score:2)
Yes I know they're not working on a joint system but did anyone else think of names a joint Unbuntu-Mandriva Linux might use?
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Mandriva usage multiplication (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Mandriva usage multiplication (Score:5, Informative)
Mandriva is a very strong distro. It has a long history, great hardware support, nice GUI install, refined GUI and text admin tools, a huge repository of packages, and several versions to meet just about any Linux need. They were the first (besides Debian) to have automatic package dependency resolution, the first to have 586/686 optimized kernels, and they still treat Gnome and KDE as equal citizens within a single distro without splitting things up. It isn't as popular as it used to be, but that is not because they are doing anything "wrong", there are just more strong players in the "market" now (which is a good thing).
Distrowatch has not been proven to be a reliable indication of number of users of any distro... although it can be a useful statistic. Personally, I known more people that have gone from Mandriva to some other distro (like Ubuntu) and then returned to Mandriva, than those who have left and stayed gone.
As for a "netbook" specific flavor of Mandriva- I think they did the right thing at the beginning, which was to just have the mainline iso (2008.1) adapt the install when it senses it is being installed on a netbook (like an EEE). Adjust screen res, adapt the draketools, change sync strategy, etc. I am not sure having a separate iso just for a single type of install is a good idea. It is more to maintain, more to download, etc.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
As for a "netbook" specific flavor of Mandriva- I think they did the right thing at the beginning, which was to just have the mainline iso (2008.1) adapt the install when it senses it is being installed on a netbook (like an EEE). Adjust screen res, adapt the draketools, change sync strategy, etc. I am not sure having a separate iso just for a single type of install is a good idea. It is more to maintain, more to download, etc.
One thing I never figured is why you need to download a different disc for installing Ubuntu via the command line. In an earlier version I wanted some options that weren't exposed through the GUI, but still essentially install the desktop distro. It's not like the text-based install can take much space, so I guess it's loaded up with other strange things. Plus even if you want to install a server, if you got an Internet connection it might be just as easy to use the normal one to get you booted and installi
Re:Mandriva usage multiplication (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:1)
I'm a Linux newb who's just bought an Aspire One. I'm interested in getting Mandriva now I've heard good things about it here. Wouldn't it make sense for me to try Mini? If you're saying I should just get the main disto, well fine - I'll do that, but in that case why do the Mini distro at all? Why not built any customizations etc into the main distro instead - wouldn't that save you work, and end users confusion?
Sorry if I'm missing something here.
Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I suspect that Distrowatch which AFAIK has no non-English pages will show a lower hit count for such distros. Is there any other good reason for the now dated but English based relative of Mandriva, that is PCLinuxOS, to show a higher hit count?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Their website, mailing lists, documentation and most of the forums on the Mandriva club site are all in English. There are some French forums on the Mandriva club site (along side the English ones) but that's about it. There're also plenty of 3rd-party English speaking sites, eg. http://mandrivausers.org/ [mandrivausers.org]
I don't speak or read a word of French and I've never had a problem.
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Too little too late (Score:4, Informative)
Parent