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Comments: 212 +- Mobile: OpenMoko In Stores On July 4 on Friday July 04 2008, @02:10AM
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ruphus13 writes "July 4 will be day when OpenMoko's Neo FreeRunner will be available to US consumers. Being Open Source, it is modifiable down to the core. From the article: 'The FreeRunner is based on a GNU/Linux, and it will initially ship with basic software to make calls, send and receive SMS, and manage contacts. But the company is encouraging users to write and install their own applications. Software updates will add features to the phone over time, and the company said an August update will enable location-based services.'"
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Damn, that was quick (Score:2, Informative)
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Re:Damn, that was quick (Score:5, Informative)
Dear All, Sorry for delay long time!!! So far, only GSM850 Freerunner is available in stock, Debug board and spare also!!!
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/020394.html [openmoko.org]
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Re:Damn, that was quick (Score:5, Informative)
How come they write like retards?
Because English is not their native language (many of the Openmoko people are in .tw or .de).
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This is about freedom (OT, reply-wise) (Score:3, Interesting)
Doesn't anyone find it kind of funny?
The Freerunner is about freedom; free software, free hardware designs. Launch date is 4th of July. I hear there was some freedom going on at the 4th of july some 232 years ago.
(sinister voice) Coincidence? I think not...
freaking is back ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Could I run a program that can make calls the world over and charge to my account ?
G
Re:freaking is back ... - SPOILER FOR DOCTOR WHO (Score:3, Funny)
No, but it will let you make all sorts of crazy calls and let you communicate with the Doctor...
Re:freaking is back ... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
In many phones (including the FreeRunner) the entire GSM stack is handled by a separate chip. As you say, it is required for type approval in a handset that is as open as this one.
Writing software to talk to one of those is quite deja vu if you were into modem stuff in the bbs days. Serial link, AT command set. From the point of view of the Linux software running on the phone, it is pretty much identical to an old PC connected to a serial modem. Retro-computing in your pocket. ;-p
No GSM 1800? (Score:2)
Anyone know why they only have GSM 850 & 900? Atleast half of the networks in Europe are 1800 and we're now in theage of tri-band phones. It's nice it has WiFi and everything but it seems that this is more like a PDA with a (not very capable) cellphone tacked on, it does n't even have EDGE support.
Re:No GSM 1800? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:No GSM 1800? (Score:5, Funny)
You're right of course, on the BUY NOW section it lists the phone as 850 & 900 left me dazzed and confused.
Note to self: Don't comment first thing in the morning.
Note to self(2): Dont leave note to self on slashdot.
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Woops, My Bad (Score:5, Informative)
Sorry, I went straight to the BUY NOW section, where it offers "GSM 850" & "GSM 900" which what they mean is 850/1800/1900 & 900/1800/1900.
Note to OpenMoko: You could make this a bit clearer.
Note to Moderators: Please be gentle :)
Although I stand by the EDGE comment.
Re:Woops, My Bad (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree. In terms of hardware (and especially on the cellular data side) this isn't anything to get excited about.
On the other hand, this handset's market segment is the "Linux in your pocket" people. Which meant that when they picked the components, the important question was "is this chip supported by Linux" and not "does this chip support the latest technology".
I'm kinda surprised myself that they couldn't find a GSM module that supports at least EDGE. But if the alternative was a binary blob driver (or more likely, unavailable or only-nda-available AT command set documentation, errata etc) well... :-/
Also remember that OpenMoko has a lot of rough edges still. The basic stuff is said to be working, but it is certainly not suitable for Aunt Tilly. The main market for this device is people who absolutely want true open Linux on their phone and who are willing to contribute (writing software, bug reports, porting, testing, etc) to make that happen. So, hardware ain't hot but it is as open as they could find; and except for camera it has all the hardware components needed (bt, cellular data, usb, wifi, etc) to enable people to test and develop the software needed for a fully featured handset.
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Availability (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Unless you want an rather ancient tech phone which is also locked down and crippled to no end by your network provider.
Re:Availability (Score:5, Interesting)
Most likely never ;)
Unless you want an rather ancient tech phone which is also locked down and crippled to no end by your network provider.
The UK isn't terribly bad for crippling and locking phones. We have a healthy unlocking market, and some stores (namely CarPhoneWarehouse) insist on selling unlocked phones. Admittedly, sometimes the phone will come with awful branded firmware (I'm thinking P990i and N95 here), but it's quite simple to reflash it with a world generic firmware that has all the features and none of the branding. It's .us that is renowned for ruining phones in the above fashion.
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Re:Availability (Score:5, Funny)
Did you just identify a country by its TLD instead of its name?
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Re:Availability (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Availability (Score:5, Funny)
Flogging? Is that a British idiom?
Yup, flog is slang for sell. Interestingly, it is also Australian slang for steal. Could lead to some unfortunate misunderstandings.
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Re:Availability (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks, I'll be here all week.
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Re:Availability (Score:5, Interesting)
Most of the UK is covered in GSM signal, and most of the urban areas are covered with UMTS which is increasingly being upgraded to HSPA. From the page you linked to, take a look at this map [gsmworld.com]. Most of the 'middle of nowhere' type places are covered with GSM and all town, cities, and a lot of the 'not quite the middle of nowhere' areas are covered with UMTS.
Upgrading from GPRS to UMTS was the reason for my last phone upgrade, three years ago, and so a phone that would require a downgrade is simply not interesting to me. I could live without HSPA support, since UMTS gives around 50KB/s real-world speeds (possibly more - that seems to be the peak throughput for my current phone's bluetooth chip), and that's enough for the moment, but it would be nice to have an upgrade path.
No one is investing in GPRS networks anymore, since anyone who cares about data access has been on UMTS for years and is thinking of moving to HSPA with their next upgrade, so you are likely to have worse coverage in the future, while UMTS and HSPA networks are being upgraded constantly.
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Just to clarify (Score:5, Insightful)
The 900 model isn't really sold out it's not arrived at the distributors yet so it's not currently available.
Also the reason it uses GSM is that the team have tried as far as possible to use OPEN HARDWARE ie fully documented and not lumbered with proprietary closed-source drivers. GSM was the only option as all 3G hardware is completely closed.
Also please everyone, don't start the "it's not as good as the iphone" flamewars. If you want an iphone you don't want this and if you want this you probably don't want an iphone.
Except for the CPU, modem, wifi, graphics chip.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Also the reason it uses GSM is that the team have tried as far as possible to use OPEN HARDWARE ie fully documented and not lumbered with proprietary closed-source drivers.
Too bad they did a shit job [openmoko.org].
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Unless I'm mistaken, it's more free than any other phone out there. We can't compare this to an ideal, we have to compare it to alternatives, and decide where to vote with our dollars.
Even my Debian desktop is not entirely free. I use a proprietary nvidia driver, and I use the flash player.
Someone invested a lot of money -- and might see much of it lost -- trying to make this phone. The revenue they generate indicates the demand, and will be the primary deciding factor for future investment.
There are pretty
What network? (Score:3, Interesting)
Even though I readily admit I hate the shape of the case they put this thing in, I am otherwise quite interested in this phone from the "open" standpoint.
But assuming I were to buy one of these, what carriers in the US will let you put it on their network without grief or a number of hoops to jump through?
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Hear, hear! I'd like to see the breakdown of what it would actually cost to use this on a U.S. network and what kind of service to expect.
I did find this list of U.S. GSM providers [gsmworld.com] by following a link from OpenMoko's Q&A page, but it's not all that helpful.
Since this device has wi-fi, what I'd really like to do is to use it as a Skype-like phone over wi-fi when I'm at home, and then have it switch to regular cellular when I'm on the road. Since I make most of my phone calls from home, I should theoretic
Re:What network? (Score:4, Interesting)
Feel free to download the plans [openmoko.org], modify it however you see fit, and fabricate the result!
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AT&T, probably any other GSM carrier. (Score:3, Informative)
I just had to bite the bullet a few months ago, retire my AMPS/TDMA phone and switch to GSM. (AT&T is the only cell carrier that covers my vacation/eventual-retirement home and they're shutting down the TDMA option.) Had hoped OpenMoko would be in time for me but they missed by about 9 months.
With them in mind I got one of the "free" locked phones - and checked what the unlocking and phone switching policies were. AT&T claimed:
- The PHONE is locked to the CARD, but,
- The CARD isn'
Sweet. (Score:4, Interesting)
but...what does it DO??? (Score:4, Interesting)
The website is remarkably information-free. "Basic software" doesn't tell me a damned thing. I'm all about x86 pizzabox servers and CentOS. I don't know anything about these mini-platforms or ARM processors to start with. Does it come with a compiler or does all development have to be done externally? Does it have any shell tools? Does it have a Perl interpreter? SSH? Is there any graphical internet stuff at all yet for the platform (browser, ftp, email?) or is this an entirely new "ground up" environment.
I'd love to have a Linux phone just on principle, but I don't want to have to build the whole damned thing from scratch.
Re:but...what does it DO??? (Score:4, Informative)
Go to the Wiki:
http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page [openmoko.org]
And all will be revealed.
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Gentlemen, start your lawyers (Score:5, Funny)
-Harry, there's someone in the house! Call 911!
-Can't you see it's compiling, woman?!?!? C'MON!!
Obligatory (Score:4, Funny)
No 3g. Less space than an iPhone. Lame.
Should be interesting to see where this leads.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
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Last but not least - Freedom.
Re:Nice to see GSM technology still around (Score:4, Insightful)
What are you getting at? I can tell you're not trolling, but what do you mean?
This isn't like Europe and developed parts of Asia, we've got relatively low population density and spend far less money on cell phones than typical customers in those areas. As a result the time tends to be longer.
Of course we're also fans of bureaucracy and corporate malfeasance so it'll take even longer than it would in a sanely managed geographic region of similar specifications.
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Of course we're also fans of bureaucracy and corporate malfeasance so it'll take even longer than it would in a sanely managed geographic region of similar specifications.
Yes, I believe that's what he's getting at.
The rest of the world has moved on? (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh really?
Verizon, a CDMA carrier, is starting trials using LTE, a GSM (4G) variant this year, eventually they'll switch over leaving only Sprint as the main provider of CDMA
I like CDMA, but I'll welcome GSM with Verizon if it means I can try out the OpenMoko. Oh yeah, what were you saying again about GSM?
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Point is, this isn't an internet tablet. It's a phone. GSM is sufficient for this task.
Re:Nice to see GSM technology still around (Score:5, Funny)
it's good to see third world countries (and the United States) clinging to this ancient technology.
Give us a break. We're still trying to convince people that our species is older than a few thousand years.
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Re:Nice to see GSM technology still around (Score:5, Funny)
We're still trying to convince people that our species is older than a few thousand years.
Not to be disagreeable, but there's asbolutely no viable evidence of the geek species prior to the 20th century. Greek, yes; but geek, no.
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
there's asbolutely no viable evidence of the geek species prior to the 20th century
Common sense also says that to be older than that, you need a breeding population.
(Captcha is "epaulet", which happens to be a type of mate position in chess).
Re:Nice to see GSM technology still around (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Nice to see GSM technology still around (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, I too really, *really* wanted a Freerunner. But, now that it's here, it seems not quite as great as the iPhone, as far as I understand it the software is hardly stable as a basic cell phone (let alone as a useful pda).
I'm actually cancelling my group sales preorder because I prefer to use my ancient PalmT3 plus separate crummy old Nokia that can't even talk to my pda.
Lesson? Design your software around a virtual platform, then put together the hardware as late as possible. Maybe. I don't know.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
GSM is really only of use for making calls. Using it for data is insane - you won't get more than 9.6Kb/s
Not true - GSM allows for HSCSD [wikipedia.org], which is basically bonding of up to 4 GSM channels, giving you 38.4Kbps.
Also, depending on your application, using GSM CSD instead of GPRS may be very beneficial - GPRS has really high latency, which makes interactive stuff like SSH really painful (also makes establishing SSL connections terminally slow because of the number of round-trips needed for the handshake), where
Re:Not exactly a hard sell, are they? (Score:4, Informative)
If you clicked on "gallery" then you would have seen screenshots:
http://www.openmoko.com/product-gallery.html [openmoko.com]
A list of applications is a bit harder to find, but it is on the wiki:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Core_Applications [openmoko.org]
Of course, this is just the "core applications". Since it is an open platform, there are quite a few more, in the usual mixed states of maturity. :)
And since this phone is targeted at developers, if you don't want to write apps then no reason you should get one.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Indeed, that was the missing feature that made me decide to go with the iPhone, even though the closed nature of the iPhone makes me grumpy.