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Power Hardware

Westinghouse Commits to Green Plug's Universal A.C. Adapter 224

Posted by timothy from the to-rule-them-all dept.
Ian Lamont writes "Westinghouse is the first major electronics manufacturer that has publicly committed to using a 'smart power technology' that will let people use a single universal adapter to power their laptops, cell phones and other electronics. The universal adapters, which use a technology developed by a startup called Green Plug, will act like a hub that several devices can plug into, and will also shut off the power supply when the device is turned off or has finished charging. The first are expected to go on sale in early 2009 for under $100, according to Westinghouse's CTO. Eventually, Westinghouse and other manufacturers that use the technology could stop shipping adapters with their products, because customers may already have universal adapters at home. However, some manufacturers may not be inclined to use universal power adapters: the article notes Apple gets supplementary revenue from the sale of proprietary connectors for the iPod and other devices."
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Westinghouse Commits to Green Plug's Universal A.C. Adapter More

Westinghouse Commits to Green Plug's Universal A.C. Adapter

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  • Radioshack called... (Score:5, Funny)

    by markov_chain ( 202465 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @10:13PM (#23796609)
    ... and they want their idea back!

  • Moan of despair (Score:5, Funny)

    by andreyvul ( 1176115 ) <[andrey.vul] [at] [gmail.com]> on Saturday June 14, 2008 @10:14PM (#23796621)
    I was *this* close to finish building my collection of proprietary, non-interchangeable DC adapters!

  • This is going nowhere. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Ritz_Just_Ritz ( 883997 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @10:19PM (#23796649)
    The cost to add the technology to a company's device is listed as US$2. The cost for a company to produce their own wall wart in China...probably less than US$2....and no licensing fees to worry about and no worries that the customer might not have a charger. This idea is going nowhere.

    In this case, I think the Chinese government actually got it right. They've forced all cell phone manufacturers to provide a USB port for charging the phones. Seems like a reasonable standard to me.

    Cheers,

     

    • Re:This is going nowhere. (Score:4, Informative)

      by Lisandro ( 799651 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @10:23PM (#23796681)
      As far as i know, only Motorolas' cells allows charging through the USB port. I might be wrong though.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Toshiba can also be charged via USB and Sony-Ericsson has the possibility but you need to activate it via a service menu in most of the phones.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by jbrader ( 697703 )
        Blackberry as well. It's my favorite feature of my phone.

      • Re:This is going nowhere. (Score:4, Informative)

        by fuzzyfuzzyfungus ( 1223518 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @10:53PM (#23796889) Journal
        The thing that really sucks about Motorola's USB charge support(at least on mine, could also be verizon's fault) is that it does some sort of check, in software, before accepting a charger.

        The Motorola branded charger that came with it works fine, and computers with appropriate drivers work fine; but generic USB chargers and computers without drivers get a little "unauthorized" message and no charge.

        I'm sure it enables business models or something; but whoever came up with that one needs to be garroted.

        • Re:This is going nowhere. (Score:5, Informative)

          by schon ( 31600 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @11:25PM (#23797103)

          The thing that really sucks about Motorola's USB charge support is that it does some sort of check, in software, before accepting a charger
          No, I don't think so. I've used generic chargers with my Motorola phone with no problem.

          computers with appropriate drivers work fine; but generic USB chargers and computers without drivers get a little "unauthorized" message and no charge.
          The problem is the *computer*, not the phone, and it's a function of how USB manages power.

          USB devices have two levels of power they can draw - one very tiny amount, and a larger amount (guess which one charging your phone requires?)

          When a USB device is plugged in, it only gets the minimal amount. If it needs more, it has to negotiate for it... and operating systems do this with a driver. If you have no driver (or the amount of power requested would overload the USB bus), the request for the higher power level is denied, and the phone doesn't charge.

          Generic USB chargers just accept the request, unless it's for more than they can put out... which might have caused your problem... but it's not the phone that's at fault. (The phone needs what it needs, so if the charger can't or won't supply it, there's nothing the phone can do about it.)

          • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

            by Hal_Porter ( 817932 )

            The problem is the *computer*, not the phone, and it's a function of how USB manages power.

            USB devices have two levels of power they can draw - one very tiny amount, and a larger amount (guess which one charging your phone requires?)

            The computer will supply at least 5V 500mA to a device before it enumerates. That's why USB fans and lights, which don't enumerate but just leach power work. And if you look at a USB 2.5" hard drive it will typically have a Y cable with two USB plugs and one device plug. It does this because it needs about 1A to spin up. But for that to work one of the USB plugs must draw 500mA before enumeration because only one plug has an enumerable device behind it. The other plug is just there to leach power.

            So even t

            • Re:This is going nowhere. (Score:5, Informative)

              by Hank the Lion ( 47086 ) on Sunday June 15, 2008 @03:11AM (#23798283) Journal
              Hal Porter said:
              The computer will supply at least 5V 500mA to a device before it enumerates.
              and got moderated Informative for it.

              I don't know who did this moderating, but it must be someone who, like Hal Porter, does not know the USB spec.

              A USB device may only draw 100 mA before it is enumerated.
              When it is enumerated, it may negotiate more power with the driver, up to a maximum of 500 mA.
              When it is connected via a USB-powered hub, the driver will decline this request, and current stays 100 mA max. Otherwise, you could draw 2A from any USB port by simply connecting 4 devices through a hub.
              • I had this experience with a motorolla mobile at my workplace. A windows system refused to supply charging current because it didn't have the driver for the phone. A linux system provided charging current, presumably without finding the right driver.

              • Re:This is going nowhere. (Score:5, Interesting)

                by Hal_Porter ( 817932 ) on Sunday June 15, 2008 @03:54AM (#23798463)

                Hal Porter said:
                The computer will supply at least 5V 500mA to a device before it enumerates.
                and got moderated Informative for it.

                I don't know who did this moderating, but it must be someone who, like Hal Porter, does not know the USB spec.

                A USB device may only draw 100 mA before it is enumerated.
                When it is enumerated, it may negotiate more power with the driver, up to a maximum of 500 mA.
                When it is connected via a USB-powered hub, the driver will decline this request, and current stays 100 mA max.
                I know what the spec says, I'm just pointing out that a PC won't enforce that 100mA limit for the excellent reason that loads of devices use USB just as a handy 5V supply and don't have the necessary smarts to enumerate.

                If it did enforce it, people would return it as incompatible with this sort of device.

                And that's really the point here. The spec isn't the whole story and most USB hosts were designed by people who wanted to maximize compatibility with devices that skirt the rules rather than robotically enforce "ze rules" and then tell users they were idiots for not understanding the spec. It's like something out of theoldnewthing really. The user doesn't know the spec, they just buy cheap USB gizmos. And cheap USB devices will most likely work like this because they don't need a microcontroller. Telling the user you won't support their device and they were an idiot for buying it is just being a jobsworth [wikipedia.org].

                Otherwise, you could draw 2A from any USB port by simply connecting 4 devices through a hub.
                Ok that's a different case. A non powered hub may well limit downstream power, so USB hard drives won't work if you connect them to it. Or the PC will detect overcurrent and disable the port. Or you'll end running the host port way outside its max power rating. This is a place where it would be correct to enforce the rules because not doing so may actually destroy the host.

                Enforcing the "100mA before enumeration" rule is silly though and that's why no USB host I have seen does it.

                • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

                  by Hank the Lion ( 47086 )

                  I know what the spec says, I'm just pointing out that a PC won't enforce that 100mA limit for the excellent reason that loads of devices use USB just as a handy 5V supply and don't have the necessary smarts to enumerate.
                  ...

                  Enforcing the "100mA before enumeration" rule is silly though and that's why no USB host I have seen does it.

                  OK, now I see your point.
                  If you follow the spec, your device will only draw 100 mA max before enumeration, and work under all circumstances.
                  If your device does not have the smarts to follow the spec, you become responsible for directly connecting it to a PC port without a hub.

                  Enforcing the "100 mA before enumeration" on the server side would indeed be silly.
                  But enforcing it on the client side (and thus equipping the client with the smarts to limit the current before larger current is allowed by the server)

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by icknay ( 96963 )
          My Verizon phone appears to have this "feature" too -- from the factory it will charge from USB, but the modified it to do some sort of check. Anyway, it won't charge from any normal USB source, and that's definitely a feature I'm looking for on all future phones, cameras, games ... I think USB will be a sort of ubiquitous charging source. I'd be interested if someone could confirm that's what Verizon did vs. just some freak glitch with my phone.

          Given the frequency of billing screwups I've had with Verizon

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 )
            My blackberry will charge off three chargers i own. My phone ignores the blackberry charger but works off the generic car adapter and the plugin adapter that came with it.
        • My wife has a moto phone and I'd agree. The plug is USB but there's something "extra" in there so a generic USB doesn't work...and the charger won't charge another generic USB device.

        • Re:This is going nowhere. (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Technician ( 215283 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @11:45PM (#23797229)
          Of the electronic items retired every year, 1/4 of them seem to be cell phones. What is also needed is mandantory unlocking of phones when the initial 2 year contract is over. How many phones are tossed simply because it won't work with your new carrier. Often people change carriers when they move because coverage sucks and another carrier works in that area. Now you have a phone to retire, not transfer. Think how much in cell charges we could save with a bring your own phone plan. A good portion of a 2 year contract cost is in a throw away phone.

          This is bad for consumers and bad for the environment. Locked cell phones after the intial subsidised plan expired should be illegal. It should be legal to take a phone free from a plan and subscribe it anywhere.

          Traveling overseas often means buying a local phone to avoid extreeme roaming charges, where a sim card for your trip should be all that is needed to take advantage of calling plans overseas.

          Having a phone for home and one for abroad is crazy. Taking a phone aborad and paying roaming fees is crazy. Pre-ordering a SIM card should be the way things are done, but locked phones prevent it.

          I noticed Cellular Toys is now selling unlocked phones. When my contract is up, I'm looking into it.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by ximenes ( 10 )
            Consider that unlocking a phone is just the first step. Frequencies differ between carriers and countries. For instance, a 3G ATT phone uses the 1900MHz band while a 3G T-Mobile phone uses 1700MHz.

            Then theres CDMA carriers like Verizon and Sprint, which are totally incompatible with the GSM carriers.

            In a nutshell cell phones suck and there are a lot of reasons why phones wind up in landfills.

            • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

              by Beale ( 676138 )
              Cell phone -carriers- suck. Especially the US's. It's only what they do to phones to fit their attempts at vendor lock-in and money-saving that make their cell phones suck.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
            Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by chill ( 34294 )
          I have a couple of Motorola phones that will not charge under WinXP unless the Motorola software is installed. On Linux it just charges away. I have no problem with generic wall chargers.

          I think it has to do with the way WinXP decides if it is safe to send power over the line or not.

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by Hal_Porter ( 817932 )
          iPod Touches are the same. A PC without the driver won't charge. Specifically the Touch won't charge until the PC driver sends a USB configuration is set to a non standard value and a vendor specific command is sent.

          http://matt.colyer.name/projects/iphone-module/ [colyer.name]

          A generic USB charger won't charge an iPod either, unless it supplies 2.5V on D+ and D-, not just 5V and ground. This is totally non standard of course and the Touch only requires it so you can't use a generic USB charger.

          http://forums.ilounge.com/ [ilounge.com]
        • no such thing with my krzr or however it's spelled. it works with every USB charger i've tried it with, including a cheap brandless double-AA emergency charger.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by retsaMedoC ( 107951 )
          Actually, Motorola phones check for a specific resistance across the ground shielding and pin 4. There really isn't anything software about it. A quick Google search provides a diagram (http://krhainos.tk/motoplug.jpg [krhainos.tk]) so you can build your own.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Detritus ( 11846 )
          One solution that I've heard of is to use a powered USB hub, not connected to a computer. It makes a handy charging station for multiple devices.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tftp ( 111690 )
        My old Sanyo PM-8200 phone and my current LG CU515 phone supported USB charging out of the box (as long as you have a cable.)

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by g0at ( 135364 )

        As far as i know, only Motorolas' cells allows charging through the USB port. I might be wrong though.
        I believe Apple [apple.com]'s do too.

      • As far as i know, only Motorolas' cells allows charging through the USB port. I might be wrong though.
        "As far as you know"? What do you base that on? Casual sampling of two data points, your current Motorola phone and your previous Samsung? Go look at the display models at your local cell phone purveyor. It's easily at 50%+ and growing.
      • iPhone does.
    • USB charging is great; but rather limited. (5VDC, 500mA). By virtue of ubiquity,a port originally designed to handle mice and keyboards and stuff has done quite well in the broader world; but a standard built with the actual task in mind would be nice.

      That said, floating such a standard may well be functionally impossible, which makes the imperfect but available seem like a good idea. USB is clearly the answer for low power devices; but it would be rather nice to have a similarly standard connector for 1
      • Wouldn't the standard need only specify certain amperage minimums the supply would have to produce?

        I mean once you've fixed the voltage the devices themselves could throw in a resistor of their choice to get the amperage they want unless the device simply can't meet the demand. Isn't this how house electricity works? There is a high amperage limit at the fuse box for the whole room but no specification for the amps at an individual outlet.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by fuzzyfuzzyfungus ( 1223518 )
          You are correct. Just as you can get "USB" wallwart and car adapter chargers that put out an amp or more, there is no need for an upper limit. The trick is setting the minimum amperage that a source must supply, which would also be the maximum aperage that a client may expect(unless admittedly nonstandard). I'm not familiar enough with the engineering to know what a reasonable value for that is. I'd guess 2A or so; but that is purely off the cuff.

          • Re:Amp Standard? (Score:5, Informative)

            by kesuki ( 321456 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @11:23PM (#23797091) Journal
            USB 2.0 added the ability to draw up to 1.5amps for charging capabilities (the minimum is 100 milliamp). usb 3.0 could up the amperage even more, but again, usb will only ever put out 5 volt DC.

            fortunately there are a lot of devices that can run off 5 volt DC, so usb charging instead of wall brick is starting to take off. it's much cheaper to power off usb than to include a 'cheap' wall brick. only window's implementation of usb is 'broken' so that a device needs a device driver and must be in 'active' mode to charge.

            besides, if you design the device to charge off usb, you can then 'sell' a brick that costs extra and not include one for the 'price' of the device. both saving money, and adding a revenue stream.

      • USB is clearly the answer for low power devices; but it would be rather nice to have a similarly standard connector for 12VDC devices

        Sure, and I'll bet you'll eventually be able to choose from any number of standard connectors just like USB provides: type-B, mini-B, or perhaps even micro-B, not to mention UltraPort or ExtUSB. Let's not even mention those enduring, unchanging connection standards such as SCSI and FireWire/iLink.

        Something tells me that even if this GreenPlug manages to gain traction, it

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by karnal ( 22275 )
        Most cell phone batteries (motorola experience here) are 3.7v @ around 700mah. USB charging (5v@500ma) would be plenty for them, assuming the phone isn't being used at the time (for talking.)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Atario ( 673917 )
      There's a better reason why this is going nowhere: it is designed to subvert the companies' carefully-crafted connector conspiracy [catb.org].
    • I thought it was Taiwan.. where they change cell phones every season and got tired of the electronic waste piling up.

      But anyway, it's a great idea. Most iPods will charge off USB now, they just require the Apple plug. My Wife's TomTom charges off USB. I have Bluetooth headsets and speakers that charge off USB. For a large number of devices adding some USB3 ports to this green unit would make sense.

      The only real problem with USB 2.0 is that it only allows .5 Amp thru. Many things like the Moto phones ne

    • The cost to add the technology to a company's device is listed as US$2. The cost for a company to produce their own wall wart in China...probably less than US$2....and no licensing fees to worry about and no worries that the customer might not have a charger. This idea is going nowhere.

      Then I guess people who don't care about a standardized wall wart can save $2.

      In this case, I think the Chinese government actually got it right. They've forced all cell phone manufacturers to provide a USB port for char

    • In this case, I think the Chinese government actually got it right. They've forced all cell phone manufacturers to provide a USB port for charging the phones. Seems like a reasonable standard to me.

      What about devices that want higher voltage, or want to draw more power, than USB allows? Such as external hard disks, for instance? They'll still need a power brick. Same with laptops. Hence, something like Green Plug is a good idea.

      Why not support both. A device that otherwise is going to have a USB con

    • Pitty a 3.5" HDD enclosure won't run off a USB (or even FireWire) connector. Same goes for laptops, some LCD displays, etc.

      As for the whole cost thing meaning that it will go nowhere, that seems a bit presumptuous. As Apple has proved, people are willing to pay extra for things that make their life easier. I'd have no problem paying an extra $20 per device to support a system like this. That's a huge mark-up over $2.

      I'm sick of all the power adapters I have and I'm more than willing to spend a reasonable am

  • Not for Apple? (Score:2, Informative)

    by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 )

    the article notes Apple gets supplementary revenue from the sale of proprietary connectors for the iPod and other devices.

    So? You'll still need the proprietary iPod connector to hook it up to this charger hub, and Apple can still make it's money there (though there are already 3rd party chargers and connectors available). Though they have a point; my iPod won't charge in a universal USB charger, or even when connected to the computer it won't charge when its "dismounted" in Windows, and I am sure there'

    • Re:Not for Apple? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @10:50PM (#23796867) Homepage
      That is the fault of windows.

      Windows will not allow high current to the usb port unless the device is seen, driver loaded, and running. Many cellphones refuse to charge USB until you install the windows driver.

      It's Microsoft's fault. get a powered usb hub and bypass stupid microsoft tricks.

      P.S.: it's not the computer. Under linux I can charge a device with a usb port even if no drivers are loaded. only windows does this.
      • That would not seem to explain the grandparent's problem with charging with a universal USB charger.

        • Re:Not for Apple? (Score:5, Informative)

          by PPH ( 736903 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @11:12PM (#23797021)

          USB has a handshaking protocol for establishing what sort of load is attached and whether the host (hub, PC, whatever) will support the requested load's power. Many wall wart USB chargers are dumb 5V supplies. While this will satisfy some load devices, others will remain in 'low power' mode, awaiting the supply to acknowledge a request for more power. Which will never come. This may result in trickle charging or no charge mode at all.

          Experts on the topic may jump in and correct me, but this is my understanding: Some O/Ss handle the USB handshaking in device-specific drivers (Windows), while others implement this function in the lowest level of their USB stack (Linux). Smart USB hubs and chargers have a microcontroller and firmware to support this protocol.

      • Re:Not for Apple? (Score:5, Informative)

        by WARM3CH ( 662028 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @11:20PM (#23797061)

        It's Microsoft's fault.
        It's not anybody's fault. It is what USB standard says. Do you prefer Microsoft break the USB standard? Why should my device that correctly asks for a power token from USB host fail if a stupid hardware connected to the same hub mistakes USB port with a dumb 5 volts adapter?

        • Re:Not for Apple? (Score:5, Informative)

          by mabhatter654 ( 561290 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @11:48PM (#23797253)
          because they don't have a default answer in a generic USB driver. It's one of the little digs they take so that each manufacture has to write a WHQL driver so their device will "properly" talk. This is instead of simply providing the industry standard, or most common, answer to the request when made.

          They pulled the same crap with the power management specs on laptops, so OEMS could "optimize" their performance, instead of simply implementing the default optimizations from the chip manufacture directly. The reason is that it keeps devices tied to Windows drivers and keeps OEMS in the Microsoft upgrade treadmill.

    • Though they have a point; my iPod won't charge in a universal USB charger, or even when connected to the computer it won't charge when its "dismounted" in Windows, and I am sure there's a reason for that

      What iPod? I bought one of these dual port USB chargers [walmart.com] and took it with me on a month long business trip, and it handily kept both my iPod Nano and my 4th generation 40 gig classic iPod charged. And my TomTom, my Treo650, and Nintendo DS. While on the trip, I replaced the Treo650 with an iPhone, and it

  • I'm not impressed... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SmoothTom ( 455688 ) <Tomas@TiJiL.org> on Saturday June 14, 2008 @10:22PM (#23796677) Homepage
    Does that mean that I have to un-plug my lappy to charge my cell, or maybe have a $100 "all-purpose" adapter in each room so I can power my lappy in the living room, charge my cellphone in the bedroom, have my portable radio playing in the kitchen, and all the other things that use power bricks all over the house?

    Do I get multiple smart power units at a hundred a pop instead of the cheapo $2 ones I use now?

    Will these fancy $100 units power multiple devices at the same time, each using a different voltage?

    Will it really handle an 85 watt load for a loaded laptop plus the dozen other devices that need simultaneous power for operation/charging?

    Wait a minute, my WiFi base, router my cable modem, my scanner, and who knows how many other "things" in my office all have wall warts powering them. How may devices will one of these $100 units actually handle?

    Naw. I'll stick with my little cheap wall warts and a power strip with a switch...

    --Tomas

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Does that mean that I have to un-plug my lappy to charge my cell, or maybe have a $100 "all-purpose" adapter in each room so I can power my lappy in the living room, charge my cellphone in the bedroom, have my portable radio playing in the kitchen, and all the other things that use power bricks all over the house?

      learn2read:

      Each adapter will act like a hub that several devices can plug into.

      Will these fancy $100 units power multiple devices at the same time, each using a different voltage?

      learn2read:
      Green Plug's technology allows each device to communicate its individual power requirements to the power adapter, allowing several devices to share one adapter.

      Will it really handle an 85 watt load for a loaded laptop plus the dozen other devices that need simultaneous power for operation/charging?

      Do I get multiple smart power units at a hundred a pop instead of the cheapo $2 ones I use now?

      These deserve slightly better than a learn2read response, you might have had to use google and hit 3 links to figure out that they are licensing a technology (the plug) and making the firmware available to electronics makers. Just like you can get an el-ch

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Scaba ( 183684 )

      Had you read the article, you'd have found this:

      Each adapter will act like a hub that several devices can plug into. The first are expected to go on sale in the first quarter next year for under US$100, Chang said. The adapters also will shut off the power supply when a device has finished charging or is turned off, giving further energy savings.

  • Great Idea. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by BlueBoxSW.com ( 745855 )
    Have been saying this for years. For 120 AC power there's a standard plug. Why do I have to have a dozen different transformer bricks underneath my desk to power all of my computer, network, and phone stuff?
    • Unfortunately, they all are designed with different voltages in mind. Designing them to all run on the same voltage and amperage would probably add to the cost of each device.

      This is a great idea, but it's just not cost-effective yet. A good power strip can still be had for under $20, and for a lot less than that if you want to go the cheap route. The power bricks that come with most devices will still have to come with them by default for a long time, so that cost is still going to be incorporated into the

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AdamHaun ( 43173 )
        IC voltage regulators aren't free, but they aren't that expensive, either -- maybe a couple dollars. I don't know how much mass-produced wall-warts are, but given that there's a transformer inside full of copper and iron I'd be surprised if it was that big a difference. And who doesn't hate those, anyway?

    • It's a safety feature. Different electronics run at different voltages (3V and 5V are common). If the transformer provides too little voltage the device won't run. If the transformer provides too much voltage the device will run hot and possibly break. To try to reduce the likely hood that you put the wrong plug in the wrong device they choose all sorts of different sizes.

      Now you could try to settle all electronics on one voltage, but that just won't fly. Engineers need to be able to choose the elec

  • igo [igo.com] already has this technology today. You can get them at RadioShack, as well as online.
    • The only problem with that is it's not supported by the vendor. Pretty much all the devices I've seen say that a warranty is void if you use someone else's charger. If they can get this system to work and big companies start to adapted it, then it seems like it would be a better solution.
  • And just when I thought cell phones, at least, where starting to standardize on USB, which already has 'installed base'. In fact, other than the not-easily-removable battery on my iphone, about my only gripe is that to connect it to USB requires its dock cable - Apple should have put a mini-usb connector built right in.

  • I have one of these (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Triv ( 181010 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @10:39PM (#23796781) Journal

    I have one of these; it's called a "Computer." Seriously - every necessary portable device I own charges through USB - my phone, my camera, my mp3 player, all of it.

    Westinghouse is essentially trying to sell me a hundred dollar USB hub. That's progress for you.

    • Yes, but the main point is a standard plug for Laptops. For example, my Laptop's motherboard has been fried not once, but twice from third-party plugs. One was a cheap "will power every laptop in existence" the other one is what the Laptop maker's tech support told me to get. A standard for laptops would be very nice. And it isn't like you can power a laptop with USB....

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mabhatter654 ( 561290 )
      the point of this is that it will monitor the ports and turn off the power to the whole device at the wall. That will make your devices be "really" off when they're done working. Wall-warts waste a large amount of power like 5-10% of your electric bill on the grid because the transformer inside is still active even if there's nothing attached.
    • You can power your laptop over your desktop's USB hub? I'm impressed. How about 3.5" drives?
  • So which Chinese consumer electronics company owns the Westinghouse brand name these days?

    Funai?
    • It's actually Siemans [siemens.com], a French company, that owns Westinghouse' name.

    • How is this Interesting? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @11:24PM (#23797095)
      No Chinese firm owns Westinghouse. The history of Westinghouse is a little convoluted, but it is basically now CBS. Westinghouse was originally called Westinghouse Electric Corporation. In the 90s they bought CBS and then later renamed themselves to CBS Corporation (which then sold itself to Viacom which then renamed to CBS Corporation). Currently, the Westinghouse brand is managed by a CBS subsidiary again called Westinghouse Electric Corporation. Various companies license the rights to use the brand. CBS is, of course, a publicly traded company headquartered in the United States (New York in particular).

      So no, the parent is not "interesting".
  • Now I'm all for standardizing connectors when it's possible to also standardize voltage and other power charachteristics but frankly this just seems like a really bad idea.

    For starters each green plug power source is likely to be larger and bulkier than a power supply that operates at a single set of charachteristics. Given that the devices that require these power supplies are usually mobile that means it just got heavier to lug your mobile phone charger on vacation. Now you might hope that in total you would save on power supplies because you could share one power source between multiple devices. But if you only bring one power supply on your trip that means you can't leave your laptop charging in your hotel room/friend's house while taking your cell phone charger with for the day.

    In short flexibility will require we still own a power supply for each device not to mention the point made in the article that each vendor is still going to want to ship a power source with their item. It seems to me a better idea is to standardize on a few power profiles and connectors instead so we can simply use more power supplies interchangeably without making them support multiple voltages.

    In particular it seems best if we standardized on one connector (like the great apple magnetic one) for laptop type devices and the settled on powering the small devices through the USB standard like the iphone and other cell phones. Not only does your power cable now double as a data cable but we've saved on all the excess effort that would have gone into making smart power sources offering multiple voltages.
    • Another reason to standardize on a single voltage is that we could actually eliminate a lot more converters that way and make things much more convenient.

      Let's say we (the whole world this time) standardized on a single 16V plug and a standard 3V plug. At first you would still need a converter on the end of the standard cords but eventually we could just create wall sockets for the now standard plugs. Then we could use a single high quality transformer for each building/floor and add wall plugs for these

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by jfmiller ( 119037 )
        There is a problem with this. I assume that you mean 16 and 3 Volts DC. As voltage goes down current goes up. With higher current you need thicker wire. 500mA is not to bad, but if an entire house is wired up one would need 10 to 20 amps. From my work in the pipe organ industry I can tell you that anything less then 10 gauge wire will cause problems.

        This is precisely why 120V AC is run in homes. It is the right balance between the amount of power that can be delivered, and the safety of exposed line v
      • Thomas Edison is that you? Mr. Westinghouse won the DC vs AC debate a long time ago. Give it up.

    • Re:Stupid Idea! More Power Standardization Instead (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mabhatter654 ( 561290 ) on Sunday June 15, 2008 @12:11AM (#23797389)
      if we make them standard, hotels and other places will already have one available! Sure, we might need wall-warts available for just one plug, but it would be the exception.. and everybody would have one!

      It's not about the "plugs" it's about the wasted power of plugged in things that aren't being used. The trouble with Wall-warts is they are stupid and drizzle power the entire time they are plugged in, even without a device attached. What do we do? we buy and extra to take on the road, so we don't have to crawl under our desks and unplug them... so we have 5 wall-warts running with no devices all day!! That's what this product is trying to eliminate because it will shut as much power circuitry as possible when the device is not used.
    • Simple: One bulky one for at home or work, and a smaller travel model. I'm sure they've thought of these things as I thought of them as soon as I read your complaint.

      Power standardisation seems a bit unrealistic. Big things are easier to standardise (and most are, like a dektop computer for example), but smaller devices such as mobile phones and laptops have a much greater variation because of the space and weight considerations and power requirements of different models.

      And who's to say you still can't kee
  • All of my laptops I have ever owned have died because the DC power socket lost its connection with the motherboard. I am convinced that laptop manufacturers half-ass this component on purpose.

    Any "universal" solution to power adapters ought to also address this problem.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Darkness404 ( 1287218 )
      Also as speaking from experience, my laptop had its motherboard fried not once, but twice. Both from using third party plugs, the first was from a "universal" adapter, the second was what the guy from the maker's tech support told me to buy. Both of the times the real AC adapter's wires became broken because I *gasp* actually used my laptop to travel more then 3 feet and used it for *gasp* more then 3 hours a day. Laptop makers really should adopt a standard because of all the things about laptops I like, I

  • Westinghouse doesn't make anything (Score:5, Informative)

    by Animats ( 122034 ) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @11:10PM (#23797007) Homepage

    The only thing actually made by "Westinghouse" is nuclear reactors. [westinghousenuclear.com] The brand name is licensed out by CBS to Westinghouse Digital Electronics LLC, which is a front for Chi Mei Optoelectronics, a subsidiary of Chi Mei Corporation (Taiwan).

    Chi Mei is probably the world's leading supplier of large LCD panels.

  • It's not like that (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jnork ( 1307843 ) on Sunday June 15, 2008 @12:13AM (#23797403)
    First: yes, you will have just as many power supplies as items to be powered and/or recharged. Nothing new there. (Oh, that's not counting their power supply hub. But we'll ignore that for the moment.) Yes, these supplies will cost more initially than the present ones. But like any investment, it's supposed to save you money in the long run.

    On the other hand, when your cell phone dies, or your electric razor, or your battery charger, you can buy a new one without buying a new power supply -- because the power supply is universal, see? Less waste in the landfill, less use of resources (one less supply to build), less money to buy the new item.

    And if you dash off on a trip and forget your cell phone charger, but remember your electric razor charger -- hey, no problem! They'll just have to take turns. Or you can charge them both at night because you're not using your laptop.

    In fact, any decent hotel will have a charger installed right in the wall. Just in case.

    Or you're staying at a friend's house; you can borrow his.

    As for the supply being bulky, they've already got a supply that can adjust to any voltage in its range.

    Since the supply actually talks to the device, it will know when the device is charged, and turn itself off. Unlike the current average wall wart, it will stop using power (or only use a miniscule trickle) if the device doesn't need power.

    So: Initial expense will be higher, but you'll be able to save on later purchases (because you can re-use the old supply), you'll save on power (because of lower vampiric power draw), and all the power supplies will be interchangeable.

    Greenplug's web site [greenplug.us]

  • expected to go on sale in early 2009 for under $100

    Westinghouse is the first major electronics manufacturer

    So what does Westinghouse even make that might use this? And I'm certainly not talking about other companies who just license the Westinghouse and their logo and sell stuff under the Westinghouse name. This would be pretty overpriced for even a Laptop power supply / charger, and as far as I know Westinghouse isn't in the laptop business. The article mentions LCD TVs, computer monitors and digital p

  • Not too useful website (Score:3, Informative)

    by sillivalley ( 411349 ) <{sillivalley} {at} {comcast.net}> on Sunday June 15, 2008 @01:21AM (#23797751)
    I went through the Green Plug website. Could this technology help a particular company with their family of products?

    No information on power levels -- I could really use some information in I and V ranges. I could use some basic information about protocols. Is it designed for intermittent use, like charging, or can I design my widget to use one of these for full time operation?

    I'd rate the website +5 for marketing speak and -200 for lack of technical detail that could give interested technical folks some basic information to decide whether to take this to the next level.

  • Bring on more iPod power connectors (Score:5, Informative)

    by trawg ( 308495 ) on Sunday June 15, 2008 @02:02AM (#23797969) Homepage
    I'd happily pay an extra $5 or $10 for a device if it had an iPod charge connector.

    I travel a bit and it is a royal pain in the ass to have to have to carry multiple chargers. I'm up to 5 now - laptop, phone, ipod, ipaq, and camera chargers (yes, I could scale back what I take, but I don't want to; I use all those devices a lot on the move).

    It is probably one of the most common electronic devices so I'm really surprised there's not more out there. I know Apple wants a cut, but I can't imagine its more than a couple of dollars per device and I'd HAPPILY pay the extra for it. In addition to the above 5 devices I have a billion more at home that I don't want either.

    While I'd obviously much rather see some generic standard take hold, I can't see that happening because these add-on peripheral things are clearly such an awesome cashcow for consumer electronics makers. In the meantime, I'm happy to let Apple rule the roost.
    • "While I'd obviously"
      really? It's not that obvious from the text above that line.

      "much rather see some generic standard take hold, I can't see that happening because these add-on peripheral things are clearly such an awesome cashcow for consumer electronics makers. In the meantime, I'm happy to let Apple rule the roost."
      And it's definitely non-obvious here. If anything, I'd say it's obvious you love Apple (nothing wrong with that; certainly not calling you a fanboy or anything juvenile of the sort. I lov
  • I recently got modded down for saying macs uncompatability is a company policy. And that it holds back the market from reaching good standards. Yet the summary here includes it as a given :p funny.

  • if it's patented... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by speedtux ( 1307149 )
    If this is patented, then it's doomed to fail. And a little startup together with Westinghouse doesn't sound like a good beginning. To get this off the ground, they need several laptop and cell phone manufacturers.

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