Aidtopia writes "FCC Chairman Kevin Martin is proposing auctioning off an unused part of the 25 MHz spectrum on the condition that the winner provide free wireless Internet access. The proposal sets coverage targets that ramp up to 95% of the population within 10 years. The catch: the provider must filter out obscene content." I wonder what definition of "obscene" the FCC would like to use.
Aaaaaaaaaand, cue Peter Griffin's 'Freakin FCC' song!
They will clean up all your talking in a menace such as this
They will make you take a tinkle when you want to take a p*ss
And they'll make you call fellatio a trouser-friendly kiss
It's the plain situation!
There's no negiotiation!
With the fellows at the freakin FCC!
They're as stuffy as the stuffiest of the special interest groups...
Make a joke about your bowels and they order in the troops
Any baby with a brain could tell them everybody poops!
Take a tip, take a lesson!
You'll never win by messin'
With the fellas at the freakin' FCC
And if you find yourself with some you sexy thing
You're gonna have to do her with your ding-a-ling
Cause you can't say penis!
So they sent this little warning they're prepared to do the worst
And they stuck it in your mailbox hoping you could be co-erced
I can think of quite another place they should have stuck it first!
They may just be neurotic
Or possible psychotic
They're the fellas at the freakin FCC!
The FCC are talking about providing free, nationwide wireless internet.. Damn them to hell!
Let's assume China would do the same thing - imagine the outrage. First of all it's hard for competitors to deal with a free service - there is no reason to invest in infrastructure if some part of government is providing the service free of charge. This will hurt in the long run. Secondly it's the gateway to censorship per se. The first step is to allow people to access restricted content for free, which will drive many people away from neutral ISP's. The next step is to make blacklists mandatory for all. In the end the majority will accept those measures and a few people will use proxies to circumvent it (sounds like China, doesn't it?).
Slashdot users in general, it seems, cannot distinguish between creator and creation. Bad things are created by bad producers, who will only ever produce bad things. Good things are created by good producers, who will only ever produce good things.
Huh? Maybe I'm not the average reader or I don't understand it because I am. I'm totally unfamiliar with the creator - creation and bad producers - good producers reasoning.
The government's not providing it, they're selling the spectrum to someone who has to offer free internet on it. Who the heck would agree to that offer? Yes I will pay you money to be forced to offer free services. What?
Fuck you, fascist! It's people like you who are letting this country become totalitarian, because of your sheer fucking stupidity. Let me ask you one question, and let's see if it enlightens you: who gets to decide which speech is obscene, and which is protected?
Bad things are created by bad producers, who will only ever produce bad things. Good things are created by good producers, who will only ever produce good things.
True. Slashdotters tend to be a cynical folk. In the end though banning obscene material can be very good for society; there will be no inadvertent or harmful attempts to look at or download religious materials for example and children will no longer be exposed to Fox News articles or anything said or written by Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh.
Hopefully the new rules will only allow content to be viewed that has sex as the major theme, because sex brings joy to the world. Among those primates whose primary
Add anything that is not "politically correct", and it'll be filtered.
1. Encryption is mandatory over such a network
At 25 Mhz with a bandwidth of, what? 1 Mhz throughput will be 1 megabit per second shared with hundreds of users. Free wifi in the gigahertz range is already a joke. This system won't have the throughput for (decent) porn, encrypted or not.
Sure. "s/obscene/dissenting/g" means "everywhere you see 'obscene', substitute 'dissenting'". It's the syntax of the Unix ed text editor; see this page [die.net] for details.
I wonder if this is a less than subtle way of the FCC executing a power grab, first establish censoring on a free network, then start moving it to the current networks (although this would not be needed if the enough people use this as their "last mile", you just look at their traffic there).
It was probably done at the behest of Big Networking, so that whenever people get uppity about the fact that the companies are not exactly dumping a whole lot of capital into improving and/or extending their services, they can point to this and say "just use that!", safe in the knowledge that nobody will want to use a slow, ad-filled, censored internet connection.
I wonder what definition of "obscene" the FCC would like to use.
In the US, 'obscene' has a clear legal meaning: material that meets the three-pronged (I said 'prong,' huhuuhuh) test established in Miller v. California:
1. 'the average person, applying contemporary community standards' would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest 2. the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law 3. the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
Such material isn't protected speech. I think it should be, but there you go: it's hardly surprising that the FCC doesn't want it on a freely-accessible broadcast network. It's an infinitely more reasonable position for them to take than if they were demanding that providers filter "indecent" material, which is a) protected speech and b) has no strict legal definition.
What's interesting is that, by obscenity laws, porn would be fine. It really would not be hard for a provider to say "When we're made aware of material that's clearly obscene or illegal, we'll take technological steps to filter it."
But like pirate radio, they will never be able to stop it.
I know you are trying to be funny or whatever but even if you don't think the Bible contains a single fact, the fact remains it is a book of stories. More then that they are some of the oldest stories we might consider part of modern Western Civilization. They more or less lay out what society is as we understand it today. Christian or otherwise to sugest the Bible does not represent artistic, political, and scientific value(even if only the social and political science aspects are verifable) makes you appear pretty stupid.
No, it's not. Note that pornography is entirely legal and protected speech. For something to be obscene, it has to meet all three of those criteria, not just one. Sex is certainly not obscene, and most depictions of sex are also not obscene.
On the FCC front page, there is a link to all the members of the board, and their emails.
I say we email them.
Lets turn the./ effect upon our government, and see if maybe, just maybe, we can convince them not to make the same dumb ass mistakes they make every 30 years trying to censor new formats.
This isn't the 25MHz spectrum, it's a 25MHz block of the 2.1GHz spectrum. Realizing that makes this story make a whole lot more sense. There's no possible way this would work in the HF range.
I think that there are two pretty major flaws with this idea:
1) Bandwidth. 802.11b uses 22Mhz of bandwidth for each of its channels. There is not 22Mhz of unallocated bandwidth at 25Mhz. I'm sure that compression techniques are better now than when 802.11 stuff was defined. However, looking at the FCC allocation chart [doc.gov], there isn't much unassigned bandwidth near 25Mhz. A few Mhz here and there, unless they're considering usurping ham radio and maritime bands and otherwise kicking people off of frequencies. I'm not sure what they're considering "unused". Someone with more knowledge of on data compression via radio techniques might chime in:).
2) Propagation. 25Mhz is right around 12 Meters, which the hams and DX CB radio folks will know can propagate hundreds and even thousands of miles, depending upon ionospheric conditions. Take the bandwidth problem above, and multiply it by the fact that the precious little slice of bandwidth you get might be stomped on by everyone in the US during peak sunspot activity. This is likely the reason that mobile carriers aren't interested in these frequencies.
I'm pretty sure this is a loser idea. If someone knows more than me, I'd love to learn more about this stuff, though.
I know the FCC does some strange things at times. And I know that the censorship isn't exactly what I'd pick for my regular internet connection.
However, I know that when I'm working from my laptop while waiting at the mechanic, it'd be nice to have ANY cheap / free internet connection. $60/month for unlimited internet through the cellphone networks is too expensive for my needs...
I'm still stuck at the technological hurdle of actually being able to _implement_ such filters in the first place, given that it's an NP-incomplete problem.
It's all well and good to scream "protect the children!" at the top of your lungs, but what technology are you proposing to identify and interdict obscene content?
"I wonder what definition of "obscene" the FCC would like to use."
Probably the one they already use to charge violators such as Howard Stern, as well as the violators' station of origin, up to US$250K per incident. I'm not sure where it is in their regs (which I do know are online) but I recall quite clearly the sign in the studio booth at WUVT that reminded me constantly of the sword hanging over me.
What's always bothered me about the regs is the relaxation of the rules after 10 PM. When I was broadcasting, I had simultaneous netcast. After 10 PM where the station is (Blacksburg VA, eastern time) is only after 7 PM on the Left Coast (ie. pacific time). After 10 PM where? Was I simultaneously legal in Virginia but breaking the law in California?
Apply that now to on-demand, statically stored material which may or may not be infringing depending on the material and time of request. It's always before 10 PM someplace, so the owner may be liable according to the location of the requester. You can bet this is the way things would fall, because the alternative is to say 'it's AFTER 10 PM someplace', making the regs moot and removing a potential source of enforcement as well as income.
Oh yeah, and the context of the offending material matters. You can play hip hop and rap on air after 10 PM local and get away with broadcasting 2 "motherfuckers" and 5 "niggers" per minute, but try to say one of either yourself and see what it costs you. In the case of the latter, that may include body parts depending on your own color. The context of your reception can also matter, hence a "researcher" is supposed to be able to access an "obscene" web site for academic purposes without fear of reprisal. Yeah, right.
Personally I prefer Larry Flint's editorialized definition of "obscene" which puts murder and such well before sex in terms of badness. If that were used, you'd never be able to access most commercial news outlets, or much common TV or theatrical material. So sad that killing is not just accepted but expected, and fucking is outlawed.
OOPS, I think I just made it impossible for you to access this in the archives should the regulation of the proposed bandwidth go through. We'll see.
I agree with your concern. If we assume an S/N ratio of 20db (about 3 S units on my HF rig or noise at S6 and signal at S9 which I consider a good copy) then Shannon-Hartley's theorem says that they will get at best 333kbps. I used the example calculation #1 at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theorem [wikipedia.org] and just substituted 50kc for 4kc to get this.
Federal Communications Commission Chairman Kevin Martin scheduled a vote on rules for another major spectrum auction, one that would encompass 25 megahertz in the 2155-2180 MHz advanced wireless services band and require the winning bidder to offer free broadband service under an aggressive build-out schedule.
The article linked above isn't nearly as good as this [rcrnews.com] one on the details of what spectrum is actually on the block here
TV and radio are actually held to a higher standard for most of the day: they can't broadcast "indecent" material from 6 AM to 10 PM. In practice, most broadcasters choose not to broadcast "indecent" material at all, possibly for fear of a public outcry or advertisers backing out. Obscenity was defined by the Supreme Court in Miller v. California [wikipedia.org], and is a very tough threshold to meet. Lots of laws prohibit obscene speech, and I'm fairly certain there's a law that prohibits obscene speech from being transmitted on a licensed channel. The FCC is merely upholding the law.
'Some' people would have a problem with paying for their neighbor to do that.
But that wouldn't happen in this case anyway, since the "free" access would be subsidized by whoever owns the spectrum (e.g. by selling ads), not by taxpayers.
I'd agree, but to be fair, the FCC is required to mandate "decency" standards on the public airwaves, so extending that mandate/philosophy to a proposed public wireless system sounds like a reasonable argument.
The difficulty is that the internet, at least for the forseeable future, isn't at all similar to broadcast television or radio.
Obscene is easy, its called fun (Score:3, Insightful)
Thus, about 99% of all media.
Re:Obscene is easy, its called fun (Score:4, Funny)
Only way to be sure
Parent
No defense against ASCII Art! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Obscene is easy, its called fun (Score:5, Funny)
Only the first eight words are used, the last two are used as out-of-bound signaling.
Data is sent three bits at a time, each bit-pattern denoted by one of the remaining eight words as described in the table below:
000 word1
001 word2
010 word3
011 word4
100 word5
101 word6
110 word7
111 word8
As long as there are any bits flowing, _any_ bit can be transmitted.
Parent
Re:Obscene is easy, its called fun (Score:4, Funny)
Aaaaaaaaaand, cue Peter Griffin's 'Freakin FCC' song!
They will clean up all your talking in a menace such as this
They will make you take a tinkle when you want to take a p*ss
And they'll make you call fellatio a trouser-friendly kiss
It's the plain situation!
There's no negiotiation!
With the fellows at the freakin FCC!
They're as stuffy as the stuffiest of the special interest groups...
Make a joke about your bowels and they order in the troops
Any baby with a brain could tell them everybody poops!
Take a tip, take a lesson!
You'll never win by messin'
With the fellas at the freakin' FCC
And if you find yourself with some you sexy thing
You're gonna have to do her with your ding-a-ling
Cause you can't say penis!
So they sent this little warning they're prepared to do the worst
And they stuck it in your mailbox hoping you could be co-erced
I can think of quite another place they should have stuck it first!
They may just be neurotic
Or possible psychotic
They're the fellas at the freakin FCC!
Parent
FCC FU! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Obscene is easy, its called fun (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Obscene is easy, its called fun (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Obscene is easy, its called fun (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Obscene is easy, its called fun (Score:4, Interesting)
Fuck you, fascist! It's people like you who are letting this country become totalitarian, because of your sheer fucking stupidity. Let me ask you one question, and let's see if it enlightens you: who gets to decide which speech is obscene, and which is protected?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Bad things are created by bad producers, who will only ever produce bad things. Good things are created by good producers, who will only ever produce good things.
True. Slashdotters tend to be a cynical folk. In the end though banning obscene material can be very good for society; there will be no inadvertent or harmful attempts to look at or download religious materials for example and children will no longer be exposed to Fox News articles or anything said or written by Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh.
Hopefully the new rules will only allow content to be viewed that has sex as the major theme, because sex brings joy to the world. Among those primates whose primary
Re:Obscene is easy, its called fun (Score:4, Funny)
Slashdot needs a say what? mod option.
Parent
Re:Obscene is easy, its called fun (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Encryption is mandatory over such a network
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eww (Score:4, Informative)
Fixed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Fixed (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Possible power grab? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Possible power grab? (Score:4, Funny)
note: regular Fox, not Fox News.
Parent
Definition of "obscene" (Score:5, Insightful)
Some obscenity suggestions for filtering out (Score:3, Insightful)
I wouldn't mind this! (Score:3)
Re:I wouldn't mind this! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Obscenity has a clear meaning (Score:5, Interesting)
In the US, 'obscene' has a clear legal meaning: material that meets the three-pronged (I said 'prong,' huhuuhuh) test established in Miller v. California:
1. 'the average person, applying contemporary community standards' would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest
2. the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law
3. the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
Such material isn't protected speech. I think it should be, but there you go: it's hardly surprising that the FCC doesn't want it on a freely-accessible broadcast network. It's an infinitely more reasonable position for them to take than if they were demanding that providers filter "indecent" material, which is a) protected speech and b) has no strict legal definition.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
What's interesting is that, by obscenity laws, porn would be fine. It really would not be hard for a provider to say "When we're made aware of material that's clearly obscene or illegal, we'll take technological steps to filter it."
But like pirate radio, they will never be able to stop it.
Re:Obscenity has a clear meaning (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Obscenity has a clear meaning (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
No, it's not. Note that pornography is entirely legal and protected speech. For something to be obscene, it has to meet all three of those criteria, not just one. Sex is certainly not obscene, and most depictions of sex are also not obscene.
Re:Obscenity has a clear meaning (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Oblig. Family Guy (Score:3, Funny)
Defined. (Score:5, Funny)
Email the FCC! (Score:3, Informative)
On the FCC front page, there is a link to all the members of the board, and their emails.
I say we email them.
Lets turn the ./ effect upon our government, and see if maybe, just maybe, we can convince them not to make the same dumb ass mistakes they make every 30 years trying to censor new formats.
Wrong Wrong Wrong (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wrong Wrong Wrong (Score:4, Funny)
G.
Parent
Bandwidth and Propagation (Score:3, Interesting)
1) Bandwidth. 802.11b uses 22Mhz of bandwidth for each of its channels. There is not 22Mhz of unallocated bandwidth at 25Mhz. I'm sure that compression techniques are better now than when 802.11 stuff was defined. However, looking at the FCC allocation chart [doc.gov], there isn't much unassigned bandwidth near 25Mhz. A few Mhz here and there, unless they're considering usurping ham radio and maritime bands and otherwise kicking people off of frequencies. I'm not sure what they're considering "unused". Someone with more knowledge of on data compression via radio techniques might chime in
2) Propagation. 25Mhz is right around 12 Meters, which the hams and DX CB radio folks will know can propagate hundreds and even thousands of miles, depending upon ionospheric conditions. Take the bandwidth problem above, and multiply it by the fact that the precious little slice of bandwidth you get might be stomped on by everyone in the US during peak sunspot activity. This is likely the reason that mobile carriers aren't interested in these frequencies.
I'm pretty sure this is a loser idea. If someone knows more than me, I'd love to learn more about this stuff, though.
Reid
Bowlderized? (Score:3, Funny)
No need for a filter (Score:3, Funny)
Why so negative? (Score:3, Insightful)
However, I know that when I'm working from my laptop while waiting at the mechanic, it'd be nice to have ANY cheap / free internet connection. $60/month for unlimited internet through the cellphone networks is too expensive for my needs...
Everyone is bitching about filtering... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm still stuck at the technological hurdle of actually being able to _implement_ such filters in the first place, given that it's an NP-incomplete problem.
It's all well and good to scream "protect the children!" at the top of your lungs, but what technology are you proposing to identify and interdict obscene content?
-- Terry
The Cost Of Obscentity (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably the one they already use to charge violators such as Howard Stern, as well as the violators' station of origin, up to US$250K per incident. I'm not sure where it is in their regs (which I do know are online) but I recall quite clearly the sign in the studio booth at WUVT that reminded me constantly of the sword hanging over me.
What's always bothered me about the regs is the relaxation of the rules after 10 PM. When I was broadcasting, I had simultaneous netcast. After 10 PM where the station is (Blacksburg VA, eastern time) is only after 7 PM on the Left Coast (ie. pacific time). After 10 PM where? Was I simultaneously legal in Virginia but breaking the law in California?
Apply that now to on-demand, statically stored material which may or may not be infringing depending on the material and time of request. It's always before 10 PM someplace, so the owner may be liable according to the location of the requester. You can bet this is the way things would fall, because the alternative is to say 'it's AFTER 10 PM someplace', making the regs moot and removing a potential source of enforcement as well as income.
Oh yeah, and the context of the offending material matters. You can play hip hop and rap on air after 10 PM local and get away with broadcasting 2 "motherfuckers" and 5 "niggers" per minute, but try to say one of either yourself and see what it costs you. In the case of the latter, that may include body parts depending on your own color. The context of your reception can also matter, hence a "researcher" is supposed to be able to access an "obscene" web site for academic purposes without fear of reprisal. Yeah, right.
Personally I prefer Larry Flint's editorialized definition of "obscene" which puts murder and such well before sex in terms of badness. If that were used, you'd never be able to access most commercial news outlets, or much common TV or theatrical material. So sad that killing is not just accepted but expected, and fucking is outlawed.
OOPS, I think I just made it impossible for you to access this in the archives should the regulation of the proposed bandwidth go through. We'll see.
This is obscene (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course the FCC is still scratching its head over why they couldn't get anybody to bid on spectrum that was dedicated for public safety use.
Anybody else think the FCC has lost the plot ?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:50 kHz spectrum at 25 MHz? (Score:5, Informative)
I agree with your concern. If we assume an S/N ratio of 20db (about 3 S units on my HF rig or noise at S6 and signal at S9 which I consider a good copy) then Shannon-Hartley's theorem says that they will get at best 333kbps. I used the example calculation #1 at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theorem [wikipedia.org] and just substituted 50kc for 4kc to get this.
Anyone disagree?
Parent
Re:50 kHz spectrum at 25 MHz? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Obscene Defined (Score:4, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Leave it to the Republicans (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd agree, but to be fair, the FCC is required to mandate "decency" standards on the public airwaves, so extending that mandate/philosophy to a proposed public wireless system sounds like a reasonable argument.
The difficulty is that the internet, at least for the forseeable future, isn't at all similar to broadcast television or radio.
Parent