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Cellphones Transportation

New Service Maps Speed Traps By Cell Phone 404

esocid writes "In a modern equivalent of flashing your headlights to warn other motorists of police speed traps, you can now warn fellow drivers with a cell phone or personal digital assistant about speed traps, red-light cameras, and other threats to ticket-free driving. And as you approach a known threat, you'll get an audio alert on your mobile device. The developer of Trapster, Pete Tenereillo, said the system, which requires punching in a few keys such as '#1' to submit information to Trapster's database, should comply with laws banning talking on cell phones. The free service can automatically detect location using mobile devices' GPS capabilities or tap their Wi-Fi and get location from a database run by Skyhook Wireless. Police officials that Tenereillo has talked to haven't complained about the service because it inevitably encourages drivers to slow down."
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New Service Maps Speed Traps By Cell Phone

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  • Why complain? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03, 2008 @01:34PM (#22953556)
    I would think a police official would find it easier to just have police drive past points hitting #1, saving money on police traps and increasing coverage?
  • by TubeSteak ( 669689 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @01:36PM (#22953602) Journal
    The police wouldn't be setting up speed traps.
    A patrol car in the median is more than enough to slow down all but the stupid or inattentive.
  • False Positives? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by HighWizard ( 91134 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @01:37PM (#22953616)
    I'm guessing this would allow me to make people slow down on my street by simply making them "think" there is a speed trap there. Not a terrible idea, if enough people use it. Though how many false positives will it take before confidence in the system is shot?
  • by Nos. ( 179609 ) <andrew@th[ ]rrs.ca ['eke' in gap]> on Thursday April 03, 2008 @01:38PM (#22953636) Homepage
    Or you know, you could obey the speed limit, stop at red lights, etc. Seems to keep quite a few of us from getting tickets.
  • by davidwr ( 791652 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @01:40PM (#22953680) Homepage Journal
    I don't know about you but it takes more mental effort to carry on a conversation than to dial a phone or hold it up to my ear. The latter two are practically robotic to me by now.

    Rather than banning certain activities like shaving, talking on a cell, fiddling with the radio, or tending to unruly children, train new drivers on how to drive with common every-day distractions, train them to use common sense in minimizing distractions in unfamiliar environments, and if they get in a wreck and a distraction is one of the factors, let that affect who is deemed "at fault."
  • by BigGar' ( 411008 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @01:41PM (#22953694) Homepage
    sending a text message, however brief, and it is not hand free and thus may fall under the guidelines of some of the laws that are on the books or proposed.
    Especially if you get someone who has some cell phone activity right before an accident.
  • by techpawn ( 969834 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @01:42PM (#22953696) Journal
    Speeding tickets are like the lottery:
    They're just a tax on the stupid who are inattentive and don't understand how numbers work.
  • by corgan517 ( 1040154 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @01:42PM (#22953726)
    I wonder what the minimum number of people using the service in a given area would be in order for this to be much help. If a cop sits in a specific place for only a few hours, there are only so many drivers going by, and at least one person before you would have to see it and report it for you to get any benefit. I'm sure in larger metropolitan areas and high volume interstates, it will come more quickly, but what about state highways and local roads?
  • Re:So (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03, 2008 @01:44PM (#22953762)
    "You're rocketing down the freeway exceeding the speed limit checking your phone for text messages warning you to slow down. I hope you die in car fire."

    Just don't take anyone else with you
  • by transporter_ii ( 986545 ) * on Thursday April 03, 2008 @01:46PM (#22953784) Homepage
    Just set up a limit to how many times someone can report something in a given amount of time. That way it would limit false positives. Also, if multiple people give a report, mod that alert up, as it is more likely to be a true report.
  • by Telvin_3d ( 855514 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @01:52PM (#22953874)
    I think catching the stupid and inattentive is kind of the point.
  • by ATestR ( 1060586 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @01:56PM (#22953940) Homepage

    Police officials that Tenereillo has talked to haven't complained about the service because it inevitably encourages drivers to slow down.

    So all the cops have to do to slow traffic down city wide would be two periodically send a car around with an officer punching #1 into his cellphone at many locations. This way users would know that there are speed traps EVERYWHERE.

  • by techpawn ( 969834 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @02:00PM (#22953994) Journal

    i know people are going to say "well when it turns yellow you stop - no problem" but the yellow is so short that it is an issue..
    Maybe it was the way I was taught to drive... but...

    If it's green when you see it, assume it will turn yellow at any time: prepare to stop.
    If it's yellow when you see it, assume it will turn red: you should be stopping
    If it is red when you see it, assume the idiots coming the other way will run the yellow or red. Wait a second after it turns green then Go.
    Stopping is not a problem if you assume everyone else is going to be more stupid than you are. It's driving again...
  • Guess what? I have never been in an accident and never been ticketed in 18 years of driving. I always signal, never drive more than 5 miles over the speed limit, always let people in when they signal, maintain a safe following distance, and generally don't act like an ass on the road.

    Am I better than other drivers? Perhaps, it depends on what you mean by better. What I am is a safe and courteous driver.
  • by b96miata ( 620163 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @02:04PM (#22954058)
    Then why not just make it a damn tax and end the scapegoating? If every speed limit were set based on the natural speed of traffic, it might be reasonable to single people out for speeding, but I think everyone here can probably name at least one road near their house where the average speed is at least 10-15 mph over the limit and there's not a rash of fatal accidents. It's a back-door tax, without the negative political consequences of calling it one. I wish they'd just admit it and make it apply to everyone. I'd gladly pay an extra 1 or 2k a year if it meant I gained 20mph on the highway without having to worry about a shakedown.
  • Re:Sigh (Score:2, Insightful)

    by puff3456 ( 898964 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @02:10PM (#22954146)
    There is a considerable difference between driving like an idiot, i.e. recklessly, and driving fast, i.e. above the speed limit when conditions allow. Making the argument to drive faster is not irrational given one is driving safely.
  • by dotmax ( 642602 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @02:12PM (#22954190)
    One reason to stop at stop signs is to promote the habit of stopping, reduce the amount of thinking necessary, and thus the possibility for mistakes, at stop signs. For example, If you get in a habit of rolling stopsigns, there's a decent probability that you're going to get seriously T-boned at a two-way stop some day. "Ya,but not if i" blah blah. People make mistakes. You will. GaraunEffngTeed. You really should cultivate good habits, even when nobody is looking. Good habits can buttress you against brain farts. Sorry, no flame, but your theory of driving is defective and dangerous.
  • by scubamage ( 727538 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @02:13PM (#22954206)
    I got a 400$ ticket by driving on a road in northern pennsylvania at the posted speed limit. Apparently there had at one time been a speed sign posting that the speed limit dropped by 20 miles per hour (from 55 to 35). However the only sign which was posted had recently been destroyed in an accident. I took photos of the sign. However to protest the ticket would have cost me 75$ in court fees just to protest, a day of lost wages, plus the cost to drive all the way up there and back. In the end, it was cheaper just to take the ticket.
    Obeying the speed limit only works if the police play by the rules, and sadly they don't always like doing that... as Rodney King, or any number of the thousands of police corruption cases on the books can tell you. Why else do you think you're more likely to get pulled over if you're from out of state? You have almost no chance to contest because its almost always cheaper to just accept the ticket - especially if you're from a far distance. This is done on purpose (as a District Attorney told me).
  • Re:So (Score:2, Insightful)

    by PhreakOfTime ( 588141 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @02:17PM (#22954274) Homepage
    I want a site that lets me coordinate with others to piss these types off, say, by getting together and driving in formation at exactly the speed limit, blocking the bastards.

    Why dont you just focus on your own driving for a change and worry about driving to your destination? That would be a pretty shallow way to live, thinking that somehow YOU have the say in how other people can drive just because you want to. In the state I live in, doing what you just suggested has a name. Its called BREAKING THE LAW. You see, driving at the speed limit in the left lane of a multilane highway is breaking the law. Its called the 'passing lane' and you could get pulled over and given a ticket if you thought it was amusing to be a smart ass by 'blocking' somebody in.

    I eagerly await to hear your rationalization of how YOUR way of breaking the law is somehow more rightous that those speeders, and light runners who are breaking the law, albeit a different one.

  • by truthsearch ( 249536 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @02:17PM (#22954278) Homepage Journal

    Don't they want to slow people down in general
    Not where I live. The police hide and let cars go by that are 15 mph over the limit. They wait to see a car going 15+ to get a bigger ticket. It seems to be all about the revenue, not safety.

    And I imagine it's worse in many small towns where moving violations sometimes make up a large portion of the town revenue.
  • by The Redster! ( 874352 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @02:21PM (#22954332)

    A gold star may not count for much, but the insurance discount sure does.

  • by thedigitalbean ( 268010 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @02:21PM (#22954336) Homepage
    The city and police as an organization probably would. Speed traps have nothing to do with enforcing the law and everything to do with revenue generation. If this gets in the way of their revenue generation, you can bet they will try to find a way to make it illegal.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03, 2008 @02:23PM (#22954350)
    Actually, a lot of people probably won't realize that by allowing "Trapster" to track their movements and feed data back to them based on location, they will be giving up a big part of their own privacy and helping to create a database that will no doubt be subpoenaed from time to time -- if not outright plundered through misuse of the so-called Patriot Act.

    In addition, with speeders allowing their locations to be tracked, that database also documents their speeding. A juicy target if the speeder is involved in a collision and the victim(s) want another way to establish reckless driving.

    Or, it's just a useful target anyway to document and prosecute speeders. Most subscribers will no doubt be speeders, so as the police state becomes stronger, look for your now well-documented past to come back to haunt you.

    And what happens to all of that data if there is a security breach at the company and someone exfiltrates all of the records. Most probably wouldn't care, but the higher your profile, the more you could expect to see your actions published in the open for all to see.

    No thanks. I'll just keep my radar detector.
  • by NeverVotedBush ( 1041088 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @02:26PM (#22954392)
    What you will also get are discounts on your insurance because of a safe driving record. Over the years that adds up to quite a bit.
  • by Ioldanach ( 88584 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @02:44PM (#22954586)

    If it's green when you see it, assume it will turn yellow at any time: prepare to stop.

    That's good advice, but if you're watching the light and traffic, it can still take anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 seconds to observe that the light has changed and depress the brake pedal. At 35mph, you're traveling at 51 feet per second and will need 101 feet to safely stop [jmu.edu], or 130 feet if you're a truck. That means that if the yellow light is less than two seconds and you're 100 feet away, you can't safely stop without entering the intersection, and you can't enter the intersection before the light is red. Hopefully, the cameras will at least let you go if you enter the intersection on the yellow and leave on the red, otherwise you need to add the full length of the intersection to the calculation, and that can easily be 50 feet, or another full second.

    Therefore, if you come back and record the light's transitions and discover that the light provides less than two seconds of stopping time you have an affirmative defense in that it is physically impossible with standard automotive equipment for a vehicle to stop in the time allotted. You might reasonably argue for 3 seconds, since stopping distance is increased in foul weather to about 150 feet and setting the time less than that is unsafe (though if weather is that foul, the driver should be reducing their speed so that they can stop in 100 feet anyways). Also, a setting of 2 seconds requires that the driver be able to identify their range to the intersection as greater or less than 101-102 feet, which is an unreasonably small target to estimate on the fly. A setting of 3 seconds in fair weather allows the driver to estimate their distance as greater or less than a 101-153 foot space, which is reasonably manageable.

  • Re:Why complain? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dfghjk ( 711126 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @03:03PM (#22954844)
    That assumes the goal of police traps is slowing traffic down. It is not.
  • by Stanistani ( 808333 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @03:08PM (#22954926) Homepage Journal
    I do believe that governments should be afraid of the people, instead of the converse. I just wonder about the potential for misuse.
  • by ejasons ( 205408 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @03:31PM (#22955222)

    However to protest the ticket would have cost me 75$ in court fees just to protest, a day of lost wages, plus the cost to drive all the way up there and back. In the end, it was cheaper just to take the ticket.
    Well, then ... frankly, you're part of the problem...

    Consider it your civic duty to protest the injustice in court, even if it is inconvenient, even if it costs more. If more people do this, then the operation becomes less lucrative, and they will then have less incentive to do it.

    I've protested every one of the speeding tickets that I've gotten in my state -- it's never done much good, except a slight reduction in the fine a time or two. However, I felt slightly vindicated in that I was taking up some precious court time in the process...
  • by eno2001 ( 527078 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @03:31PM (#22955224) Homepage Journal
    ...to FOLLOW THE FUCKING SPEED LIMIT GODDAMMIT! If you go over the speed limit, you deserve the ticket. And I don't want to hear all the lame justifications like "revenue generation" and "unreasonable speed limits". If it says drive 25 MPH, then fucking DO IT! It's not like driving 25 MPH is going to kill you now is it? And if you say that it will make you late getting to your destination, you should have accounted for that when you left and left a little earlier! God, it amazes me how people try and weasel out of REAL personal responsibility where they actually have control over something. But as soon as there is some poor soul with real problems like poverty or HIV who really needs help, those same people are saying, "She should have been personally responsible and not been born into a poor family". Or... "Serves him right for being born with the wrong gender preference" regarding HIV.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 03, 2008 @03:39PM (#22955342)
    Your father is an asshole.
  • by jimlintott ( 317783 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @03:54PM (#22955506) Homepage
    Are you a better driver than others? I would say yes you are.

    I see driving as requiring three different skill sets. Car handling skills, simply how well can you handle a car. Spatial awareness, reaction time, etc. Information processing skill, knowing how to read traffic. The last skill is attitude and it may be the most important of the three. I don't care how great your skills are in the first two skills if you have a crappy attitude you will never be more than a crappy driver. A good attitude will make up for shortcomings in the first skills.

    You seem to have a good attitude towards driving. I wish everyone did.
  • Re:So (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DaveV1.0 ( 203135 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @04:07PM (#22955658) Journal
    Oh, another person who thinks reporting crime is the act of a snitch or "rat fink".

    People like you are the reason there is so much crime.
  • Re:So (Score:2, Insightful)

    by tobiasly ( 524456 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @04:13PM (#22955720) Homepage

    Its called the 'passing lane' and you could get pulled over and given a ticket if you thought it was amusing to be a smart ass by 'blocking' somebody in.

    What state do you live in??

    I consider myself a courteous and defensive driver but I usually drive 10-20 over the speed limit. I like to drive fast, what can I say? That said, I also let people in when they signal, I stay in the right lane unless I'm passing someone, and I try to anticipate what other drivers will do and act accordingly.

    Just once I would love to see a cop ticket the assholes who drive the speed limit in the left lane. They are the ones who are a safety problem because they piss off myself and others who are trying to get by, so then we do something stupid to put you behind us. I'm going to get around you eventually, whether I do so by passing safely on the left as intended or I have to zip around your dumb ass on the right. (I say "you" in the non-specific sense of course...)

    And don't even get me started on truckers... they used to be the best and most courteous drivers on the road but these days too many of them are arrogant jerks as well, driving 55 in the left lane for miles because they're too lazy to get over...

  • Re:Use your eyes. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Shakrai ( 717556 ) * on Thursday April 03, 2008 @04:25PM (#22955950) Journal

    Look, you're talking to a group of asshats who are too damned lazy to watch the speed limit or get up in time for work so they mustn't violate said speed limit

    Hey, I've seen my fair share of asshats on the road but I don't think speeding automatically qualifies you as one.

    In many areas the speed limits are artificially low and/or the flow of traffic precludes obeying the speed limit unless you enjoy people closing on you at 15-20mph and flipping you off as they pass.....

  • Re:Why complain? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Shakrai ( 717556 ) * on Thursday April 03, 2008 @04:28PM (#22955996) Journal

    That assumes the goal of police traps is slowing traffic down. It is not.

    Uhh, it is sometimes. I do my fair share of speeding, but I'm open minded enough to assume that the police officer sitting outside the school zone at 7:30AM isn't primarily interested in revenue collection.....

  • by NeverVotedBush ( 1041088 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @05:12PM (#22956664)
    I'm not all paranoid about it. I was just pointing out the downside to basically keeping nice, 3rd-party evidence of your driving habits, where you go, when, etc. That kind of information would be really interesting to anyone who had some reason to think they needed to investigate you.

    And if you don't think that happens, go read how the Bush administration decided the Fourth Amendment did not apply to them and they could wiretap and eavesdrop all they wanted. http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/03/1219200 [slashdot.org]

    And if you don't know what the Fourth Amendment guarantees (or did until Bush decided to ignore it...):

    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
  • Re:Why complain? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Shakrai ( 717556 ) * on Thursday April 03, 2008 @05:19PM (#22956762) Journal

    because school zone speed limits are often ridiculously slow

    Oh, c'mon! You'll brook no argument from me on highway speeds being artificially low, but school zones? If you can't stand to slow down for the 30 seconds it takes to drive through a school zone then I don't really have much pity for you if you get ticketed.

    Likewise, I have zero fucking sympathy for somebody that goes around a school bus with flashing lights.

  • by bnenning ( 58349 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @06:27PM (#22957530)
    It's not like driving 25 MPH is going to kill you now is it?

    If everyone else is doing 40, it very well might.
  • by dotmax ( 642602 ) on Thursday April 03, 2008 @10:16PM (#22959388)
    i'm glad you agree with me. REREAD my comments. "Yes but not if i... (INSERT THE FOLLOWING CLEARLY CLEARLY IMPLIED TEXT AFTER THE ELIPSIS :) -->>__PAY ATTENTION__ So let's try this again " there's a decent probability that you're going to get seriously T-boned at a two-way stop some day. "Ya,but not if i" PAY ATTENTION". People make mistakes. You will. IS that clearer?

If all else fails, lower your standards.

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