Starbucks Drops T-Mobile For AT&T 207
stoolpigeon writes "Ars reports that Starbucks is replacing T-Mobile with AT&T as their Wi-Fi provider. AT&T broadband customers will be able to access the service for free. Starbucks card users will get 2 hours a day free. 2-hour, daily, and monthly rates will be lower than they were with T-Mobile. Starbucks says that their previously announced deal to tie in with iTunes will continue under AT&T. For now AT&T isn't offering free Wi-Fi to iPhone users, but says it expects to accommodate them soon. Quoting the article: 'The companies didn't specify exactly when the rollout would begin, only saying that it would take place this spring... [The company plans] to install all new equipment at Starbucks as part of this agreement, so the changeover won't be as simple as flipping a switch.'"
Hooray? (Score:5, Informative)
So BFD if it changes!
I use http://www.wififreespot.com/ [wififreespot.com] to find free wifi when I'm away from home. (No, I don't work for them or get money for it
Re:Hooray? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Hooray? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Maybe it's cos they make your coffee, however you like it, and still smile about it (no eye rolling or snooty remarks). Ma
Re:Hooray? (Score:4, Insightful)
As opposed to Starbucks, which serves expensive bad coffee, has a horrible attitude, then charges you for wireless?
They aren't at starbucks for the coffee. They're there for the oxymoronic "hipster cred".
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Personally, I have no qualms about ordering a standard cup of coffee at a free wifi hotspot and surfing for an hour. If it's not crowded then I don't feel bad,
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Starbucks might be hip if it wasn't for the crass commercialism...
How much of every cup of starbucks coffee is advertising?
Re:Hooray? (Score:5, Informative)
I am sitting in the coffee shop of the art gallery in Chiang Mai, northern Thailand, using the free WiFi... Where is Starbucks? (O.K. we have got SB here but who needs it?). As you say, every decent coffee shop now has free WiFi...
Re:Hooray? (Score:4, Funny)
I just love the ambiance...
Re:Hooray? (Score:5, Insightful)
You might find the definition of parasite to be interesting when it comes to coffee shops.
I read a study (or perhaps a well written rant) about how places that offer unlimited wifi tend to do much, much worse than places that dont. Why? Because people will turn a table into their office and fill up all the seats, thus providing a big disincentive for people to actually go in there and drink coffee and buy a baked good.
I live in a major city and I can picture all the free-wifi places in my neighborhood and I absolutely hate them all. Theyre all packed with kids/students who are myspace addicts and your 9-5'er doing work. There are no free tables. And the best part is that these people are there ALL DAY and I'm sure barely spend 10 dollars, if that. In fact the big free wifi place here recently went out of business. I dont know how they stayed in business. You had 15 people there taking all the seats for hours and buying a 3 dollar product!
So it turns out that if you want to stay in business and sell coffee you need to not turn your shop into a laptop hangout. Even starbucks knows this. They can easily foot any bandwidth cost but they would know their shop would turn into a 'business center' in no time and that will hurt them badly in the end. Instead they want you to buy product and get the hell out. If you need wifi its there but you'll need to pay. Interesting that they are going with the starbucks card approach.
Interesting stuff. Panera suffers from this but your typical panera is much larger than your typical starbucks and all the noise doesnt make it conducive to getting things done like a coffeehouse does.
Re:Hooray? (Score:4, Insightful)
But hey, that was back when your coffee didn't come in a paper cup.
Technology to kick the bums out... (Score:2)
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Re: Closing Out of Restaurants (Score:3, Interesting)
1. If you're a regular, order when the server first appears.
2. The moment they bring the order, ask for the bill.
3. While they're away, get your credit card in hand.
(You can now go back to your meal.)
4. When they arrive with the bill, snap the card down pronto.
(Continue with your meal.)
5. Your tip is $2 if your meal is up to $15.00, $3 if your meal is up to $22.
*Your* time is worth more than agonizing over the calculation.
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Just have it out when they bring the bill and don't even let them put the bill down.
They are assuming that you want to look over the bill... not a bad assumption if you've ever sat next to a table full of senior citizens.
Don't ever eat in Europe. The servers are apparently paid by the hour and not based on tips, so they sort of disappear when it's time to get your bill. I think you would sit there al
Re:Hooray? (Score:4, Insightful)
However, we also have the good sense not to pay a tip if the service was crap - although we do offset that by paying a good tip if the service was excellent. I never managed to understand the theory that people somehow "deserve" a tip just for doing their job.
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Re:Hooray? (Score:5, Insightful)
In the American way, you sit down, eat your meal, get your bill, and leave. The wait staff is there to get you what you want, and mostly to do it quickly. "Moving tables" is encouraged, and most Americans don't like or want to sit down and wait a long time for anything. They are there to eat, and to get out.
In the European way, you sit down, are brought what you want, and are not pressured for what you want to do next. Your next stage of the meal may not come for another half hour, but that's OK because you are there to enjoy your afternoon or evening, and enjoy your time with family and friends. You may sit down after the meal with a coffee or glass of port, and not be asked anything by the wait staff for maybe 45 minutes, unless it appears that you want more of something. You certainly will not be brought your bill before you ask for it, as the wait staff does not want you to feel that you are being rushed out the door. That would not be relaxing.
When I spend a bit of time in Europe and then come back to North America, I find the attitude in most restaurants, even "higher end" ones, to be rushed and not that relaxing. When my steak is arriving 5 seconds after I'm done my salad, it just doesn't feel right. On the other hand, if you are used to that, and you go to a "European" style restaurant, you may feel like it's too slow and people aren't attentive to your needs.
Your commentary was responding to poor service. When you ask for your bill and it takes 15 minutes to get it, that's poor service. The grandparent was referring to feeling rushed when they're in a restaurant in North America. That's not "good service", that's just being rushed. But it's what most Americans (including you, most likely, and that's just fine) want, so that's how most restaurants are. It's what I want too, when I'm in a rush
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Free WiFi making inroads in Yurup (Score:2)
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I wonder what starbucks in europe will do now? OK in many of their shops their advertised w
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Too bad their coffee i
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I see you have never had McDonald's flapjacks. Best microwaved pancakes. Evar.
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I know it's too much trouble to actually read the article and everything, but how about reading the comment to which you just replied? The point is that you CAN get free WiFi there as a coffee-buying cu
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Other than not costing you anything.
It is lock-in
Who's locked in? Just go away, and use someone else's bandwidth. You're not locked into anything. This is their way of keeping their network resources tied to their customers, not to just anyone to whom a paper reciept is handed on the way out of door. It's not a public service, it's a coffee vendor providing something that many of their customers want, at no charge.
Are you really so worried about tying up $10 in a card? If you're tha
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They could pay for a OC-192 with the markup they are making on their coffee ;)
Well, maybe not that extreme, but I'm sure that they did studies proving that whatever the bandwidth costs is more then made up for by people sitting there and buying products. Bandwidth is cheap. All the more so if they have a nationwide deal and AT&T is bringing the pipes in.
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That's the pre-paid "gift" card, not the branded credit card. So unless Ars is confused (possible), wireless users may find themselves reloading their pre-paid cards on a regular basis. Meanwhile, Starbucks makes mucho-dinero on the "float" of the money.
FWIW, Starbucks often runs deals where you get a free bag of coffee beans if you load up your pre-paid card with $20. This is probably cheaper for them, and far more encouraging for their customers.
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wired at public library (Score:3, Informative)
Wireless is a pain, as connection problems are more difficult to diagnose than they should be. Problems could be not getting a good signal, authorization information is bad, or someone's configuration (yours or theirs) is wrong, and it is sometimes difficult to tell which of those it is thanks to lousy feedback to the users.
Public libraries are everywhere, not too difficult to find, and pretty much all of them have computers connected to the Internet. No guilt trip either for not buying anything. Downs
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Who told you?
I was young, I was stupid, and I was weak. It won't happen again.
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And in most cities, Starbucks are usually too crowded - too many people loitering around for the wifi would only make it worse.
If you are really desperate, just buy an EVDO card from one of the providers, and you can have Internet wherever you want (wel
But (Score:2)
I can understand the price being there to deal with the freeloaders, but when I buy something there, they used to give me 30 minutes of free Wifi (that was 4 years ago).
Now, customer or not they're charging. Those who called the shot were boneheaded.
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I do not understand how Starbucks can justify charging. Who actually pays for this?
Starbucks doesnt charge, T-Mobile does. I'm sure there are kickbacks in both directions on the deal though.
And as I've said to others before, there are compelling reasons for some folks.
For me, its mostly about convenience, quality, consistency, and ubiquity.
Everywhere I go in the city, or across the country, there's a starbucks. And I'm going there anyway to get my coffee, so the wifi is convenient. If I have to go hunting around for local coffee shops, and then the subsets of those that have free wifi
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sigh
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I work in Bellevue, WA. According to that web site, there are 7 places that offer free wifi in the whole city. I am sure the site isn't completely accurate, but still, there don't seem to be a lot of opportunities. Maybe it's a regional/cultural thing. Certainly when I check with my PDA, I rarely find anything, no matter where I am. (anecdote != data, I know)
It's strange that some kind of connectivity are getting easier and cheape
'bout bloody time (Score:2)
Re:'bout bloody time (Score:4, Interesting)
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LOL. Nor are most Starbucks patrons, it seems. Those folks in line are mostly ordering "drinks" which, from what I can gather, amount to a slice of chocolate cake thrown into a blender with some coffee, and served up with whip cream in a plastic cup and a straw. I guess drinking coffee out of a cup while using a fork to eat your desert is too fattening, or maybe just too old skool.
That said, I agree about the "comfy chair" environment. Whether you want to soci
Re:'bout bloody time-Free reading material. (Score:4, Insightful)
Pathetic geek story: I had a battery/invertor box in the car so I dragged in and used that to get me an extra hour to work. It was kinda bad when the battery ran low and started beeping.
At least Panera has outlets. I dunno about Starbucks. I never went for the T_Mobile deal.
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Re:'bout bloody time-Free reading material. (Score:4, Interesting)
It could be architectural that there are no outlets, or it could be strategic ultimately.
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The two B&N' near me have power outlets. Too few, but some. Actually, I suspect they're trying to minimize laptop usage because they recently changed their table layout which significantly reduced the number of laptops that could be powered... I wonder how much these store owners think about the power outlet availability, if at all.
The next
Cutting out the middleman (Score:3, Funny)
it's all about the execution (Score:4, Insightful)
Which is not to say Starbucks will be doomed. Only that past experience with other systems (esp. counting every hotel and airport I've been to) has shown very few businesses know how to do these things right.
It is *really* nice they're doing away with the pay-system for already paying customers. The amount T-Mobile was charging for access was crazy, and in the end I suspect all Starbucks cares about is getting more people into their store over-paying for the coffee. I have the option of working in Cafes, only I require internet-access. Until now I've been to chea^H^H^H^H thrifty to pay the additional cost (especially since I'm already paying for it at home). I'm much more likely now to spend some quality time in their stores.
As simple as flipping a switch (Score:3, Insightful)
No, it will be as simple as shipping out a new wi-fi hub and walking a barista through plugging it in and registering it over the phone.
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At the 3 locations I have worked, 2 have had the T-mobile wifi. They usually park the equipment 2/3's up on a 7 foot server mount with signs like "Property of T-mobile" and "Do not touch without permission from T-Mobile". The smartjack is usually 7+ foot high bolted on the wall, or at least it was at both of my stores.
I, however, know the T-mobile data plan rates, and warn customers... Well, I warn our regulars. They're our bread and butt
You're missing the real story... (Score:5, Funny)
Great news.. (Score:4, Interesting)
For the 'just use free hotspots' crowd, my area generally has no coffee shops other than at Barnes & Noble and Starbucks. Both charge for their Wifi. We also have Burger Kings and Panara Bread with free internet. Unfortunately my area Burger King's don't have open power outlets and smell like burgers; Panara Bread requests that patrons limit their sessions to 30-minutes, and at least where I am, have had sub-par connectivity.
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The nice thing in the US is that a few carriers have inexpensive non-tethering data plans that while not permitted, have no technical barriers to doing so. Thats good for occasional access, for whe
Ties in very nicely for AT&T DSL customers (Score:5, Interesting)
Handy, that.
If I was still paying $20/month to T-Mobile this'd sure be the end of it. What's left in their network besides Borders bookstores?
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If I was still paying $20/month to T-Mobile this'd sure be the end of it. What's left in their network besides Borders bookstores?
Airports, hotels and Kinkos.
Headline is completely wrong (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Headline is completely wrong (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm a subscriber to a pretty substantial package of T-Mobile services. I have been happy with their service offerings, and their customer service has been outstanding. I can't help but wonder, though, as they fail to get the iPhone and start losing valuable partnerships like Starbucks, whether the benefits of their excellent service will start to mean less if they don't provide offerings with major partners like Apple. When these kind of alliances create unique opportunities, it is a path to monopoly - think Microsoft.
Re:Headline is completely right (Score:5, Informative)
From Starbucks [starbucks.com]:
In recognition of the many T-Mobile customers who enjoy visiting Starbucks, the Company is also announcing that T-Mobile HotSpot customers will be able to continue to access Wi-Fi services at no additional cost, through an agreement between AT&T and T-Mobile.
T-Mobile's hardware and network are being removed, and AT&T's are being installed. What's happened is AT&T and T-Mobile have a deal (probably at Starbucks' behest) to allow T-Mobile customers to access the AT&T hotspots in Starbucks.
I visited starbucks (Score:3, Informative)
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Elsewhere, coffee is written (not sure how some of these are pronounced though):
Czech: káva
Danish: kaffe
Dutch: koffie
Estonian: kohv
Finnish: kahvi
French: café
German: der Kaffee
Hungar
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Re:I visited starbucks (Score:4, Informative)
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The place around the corner from me has such good coffee that I think they must be putting crack in it.
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People do seem to like Dunkin's coffee, but I find it a bit weak. And no wonder - if you buy it by the pound for home brewing, you have to use 2x the amount of most other ground coffee. Still better than the burnt stuff at Starbucks.
In the "So What" School here (Score:5, Interesting)
Honestly, I was not even aware that there were still wifi coffee shops that you had to pay for internet access. Is that a Bay Area thing? In the Fort Collins CO area, most coffee shops I have been around have free wifi with no time limits.
Seriously.. small shops have been doing this for years. DSL is down in the $20/month range and a wireless router is cheap. I suspect that the administrative overhead of managing a system like this one for Starbucks is not really worth the effort. Starbucks may have made their money on the T-Mobile deal, but I doubt it. IIRC, it was a $500 mill contract. And, a quick websearch shows a series of price cuts.
Here's one from 2003:
http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/news/article.php/1855971 [wi-fiplanet.com]
"In the original story regarding the price drop, Starbucks New Ventures Director Lovina McMurchy is quoted as saying that even the busiest Starbucks shops get about 20 Wi-Fi devices on the network per day. While T-Mobile doesn't release cost information for providing the hotspot, the revenue generated from so few customers is probably not enough to cover costs of a high speed line -- the T-Mobile Hotspots are served by costly T1 lines -- and the revenue sharing between T-Mobile, Starbucks, and HP, which provides some software for the services."
http://www.lockergnome.com/mobile/2006/03/09/t-mobile-answers-the-cries-of-starbucks-owners/ [lockergnome.com]
"All the mom-and-pop coffee shops offer free Wi-Fi. In fact, most everyone does except Starbucks. The Seattle-based coffee house gets its hotspot piped in by T-Mobile. It's been reported for years that store managers at Starbucks has been complaining to upper management for a while about losing business because customers don't want to pay for their Internet after forking out $4 on a foo-foo drink."
Here's my favorite:
http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/23/fonbucks-wifi-starbucks-ent_cx_mc_0226fonbucks.html [forbes.com]
"FON, a community WiFi provider headquartered in Madrid, Spain, is offering wireless Internet access to Starbucks' latte-sipping surfers for just $2 a day--versus the $10 users pay to sign onto the 5,100 T-Mobile hotspots at U.S. Starbucks (nasdaq: SBUX - news - people ).
Just how does FON plan to steal away Starbucks Internet users? By offering FON wireless routers, also known as "La Foneras," free to anyone who lives above or next to a Starbucks. The routers, which usually cost $40, split an Internet broadband connection into two wireless signals--one for personal Internet use and the second for public use, which can be accessed by anyone within range for $2 per day. The routers' owners get to pocket half of the sign-on fee, and FON takes home the rest."
Panera (Score:2, Interesting)
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And I work at a Starbucks... (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, when it comes to that occasional "I need to check my email" or what have you, the T-mobile price and 'service' is just disgusting. 10$ a day, or 30$ a month?! Yeah, it's that bad. It's not like they have any choices here, do they? Well, yes, they do. All our Subways offer free wifi, as does a popular pizza chain, as does ALL the hotels in our area, as does other coffee shops, as does even the bar.
Yeah, Starbucks is premium and all, and I can understand that. However, what seems simple is to print off the WEP key on a receipt so paying customers have free access. Our server could be easily tied into that kind of setup, in that it would provide no impact on us partners: we see this kind of integration in the drive thru stores, along with the "Bean Screens", and some stores the sticker machines.
And I wouldn't see customers get disgruntled over paying 2$ for a cup of coffee then immediately going to Subway for their email.. We simply don't have the complete package that other coffee houses do.
How does it affect WiFi @Home (T-Mobile) customers (Score:2, Interesting)
not free? it is where I am (Score:2)
Starbucks with the what now? (Score:2)
Mmmm for that (Score:2)
New T1's for every store (Score:2)
That means a lot of work for AT&T installers, and will take a while.
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Oh yeah, they're the ones who also charge around 30% more than my local coffee place charges, and I'm more than happy to give the nice people there the difference and then some for a tip.
Perhaps the devil's in the details, but I believe that little extra you might pay at Starbucks gets them health insurance, probably more of a bennie than a 50c tip. And as far as cost, the decent quality indie coffeehouses I frequented in the San Jose Bay Area - Coffee Society and Campbell Roasting - were as expensive, for the latter, or weirder/ruder in service, for the former.
Well it was working... (Score:2)
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