Verizon Embraces Google's Android 148
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Zonk
from the hard-to-hug-a-robot dept.
from the hard-to-hug-a-robot dept.
An anonymous reader writes "BusinessWeek has up an article on Verizon's decision to fully support Android. After passing on the iPhone, the company says they're going to open their network to more devices, move their network to GSM-based radio technology (LTE), and now support Android. 'In an open-access model, though, Verizon Wireless won't offer the same level of customer service as it does for the roughly 50 phone models featured in its handset lineup. Though the company will insist on testing all phones developed to run on its network in the open-access program, Verizon plans only to ensure the wireless connection is working for customers who buy those devices.'"
I Feel A Sudden Pain (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I Feel A Sudden Pain (Score:5, Funny)
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wary (Score:5, Insightful)
Something tells me they're just trying to lure us in so they can get a better swing with their magazine.
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Re:wary (Score:5, Insightful)
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This is just PR, as they don't want to publicly admit you could already have access to phones TODAY [as Verizon has already certified t
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Very true. But I'm hoping that they scrap the software because they want to trouble shoot a single OS. I don't blame them. The problem is their OS sucks. So with Android behind them they could reduce the amount software they have to work on so they can focus on their shitty "get it now" software and let me install st
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Yeah I know the feeling. Their OS sucks in such a weird way. It's not that it can't do things it's just that it's so unpleasant when ever you use it to do anything.
That's exactly it. My wife's phone and mine are nearly identical as far a features go (bluetooth-capable, camera, contact book, etc.), but my phone is just so much less sucky to use than hers. Options are easier to find, the UI is just so much more pleasant, etc. Plus, thanks to the good folks at howardforums, I was able to tweak the firmware on mine to re-enable a bunch of the phone's features that Verizon helpfully disabled.
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You can replace the firmware on the Verizon Razr with firmware from Alltel or Vivo Wireless and get the Motorola UI. My Razr is currently running Vivo as it has the best MP3 player.
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I really hope that you're talking about the signal strength (which to be fair, is quite good), because in my experience with Verizon over the past two years, they tend to treat their customers like dirt. This experience seems to be mirrored by everyone else I know who use it....
If you've got a problem (ie. you were overbilled, which occurs frequently enough that some might consider it criminal....), you have a choice between wa
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This is good news (Score:5, Interesting)
LTE is especially good news. It's an open standard, it similar underlying technologies to WiMAX and like WiMAX is all-IP - you can run any protocol over it you can run over the Internet, because your LTE device is an Internet connected terminal. Unlike WiMAX various protocols are standardized on top of it, so an LTE "phone" is still charge up, and plug in the SIM card, and go in much the same way as a GSM phone is today.
It's going to be hard for me to shake my impression of Verizon as a bunch of psychotic control freaks: maybe the Vodafone influence is finally having an affect. It'll be nice to have a third national operator with a genuinely open network that's worth considering. Being stuck with two GSM operators, one stuck with poor spectrum, the other barely giving a rats-ass about quality of service, sucks.
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Re:This is good news (Score:5, Informative)
It's hard to tell what the long term future of IS-95/CDMA2000 (TIA standards) is. The 4G road map is a technology called Ultra Mobile Broadband, this is the TIA world's equivalent of LTE, but nobody has, thus far, expressed any interest in it.
Sprint is dabbling in WiMAX, though its deprecated its projects in that area of late. It did, at one point, experiment with a version of UMTS (GSM) called UMTS-TDD but ultimately rejected it in favor of WiMAX, so they're open-minded enough to consider things that fall outside of the narrow TIA systems.
Alltel, I believe, hasn't made any decisions or said anything about 4G. Between them, Alltel, Verizon, and Sprint are the three major CDMA2000 operators. As long as one of those operators remains tied to CDMA2000, it's unlikely the system will die completely.
Frequencies is an issue of local legislation and doesn't have much to do with standards. It's going to get worse in Europe too, as phones currently support GSM on 1800 and 900, and UMTS on 2100/1900, and are now going to have to support GSM on 450MHz and UMTS on 900 and 1800. As time goes by, the number of frequencies every handset supports is just going to go through the roof, even if the phone is only supposed to work in one region.
I think this is going to end up being a fight between WiMAX and LTE, with UMB getting relatively little support. While WiMAX is better known to geeks, it's no more open nor more efficient than LTE. LTE is arguably slightly better in supporting SIM cards, so ultimately if I had a choice, I'd prefer the latter to "win". But both are likely to have wide support across the world, it's unlikely that the same ideological differences that caused the CDMA vs GSM thing to be a mess will happen this time.
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Time for software-defined radio, anyone?
Ok, I get it now... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, I get it now. I've been trying to figure out why a company that is so closed and so anti-consumer most of the time (I happen to be a current subscriber and hate them, especially after they automatically extended my contract when I got married and wanted to consolidate cell phone plans with my wife, who was also a Verizon customer) would be suddenly opening up their network, not restricting software, etc. After reading these quotes from the article, though, I do get it now.
Reading between the lines, you can tell they don't like the fact that they have to support their customers. Things were great when they were just signing up customers right and left and didn't have to do much support, but now that they have to actually support their subscribers they don't like it. So basically, this "opening" is just a way for them to support their customers even less, and dump as much of the support on the handset providers as possible. The company strategy is still about helping the consumer as little as possible and screwing them over as much as possible; it just happens that that is now most easily done with an open network.
Re:Ok, I get it now... (Score:5, Insightful)
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If something like a calendar application on your phone is buggy, why should Verizon be trying to deal with it.
While I have no sympathy whatever for the bloodsucking carriers, I agree that the underlying problems is that there's some really complex software on the phones and all users needs can't be met by customer service at any one company. I don't think the OEMs can do it either though. Just like computer software the only way to really scale it is by letting users help users. And open platforms make that easier to do than closed ones.
I've been messing around with Android and I'm really looking forward to
Re:Ok, I get it now... (Score:5, Informative)
Verizon had to 'deal with it' because they insist on using non-standard firmware to disable features that circumvent their revenue stream model. Why do you think my Razr can't transfer images and ringtones via Bluetooth? Because that would get around their silly "Get It Now" storefront. Same for Java - no free apps; everything must go thru their store.
I don't blame the manufacturers one bit for punishing these clowns for crippling their phones - in fact, I'd love for the manufacturers to forbid resellers from ruining the manufacturers reputation by flashing sketchy custom firmware and still calling it a 'Company X, Brand Y' phone.
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That applies the other way around, too. I heard a fellow just yesterday mention the heavy metal band "Queen-Sryche"
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One of my favorite Tiller's Rule violations is a car that had 'Monocot' construction (I think they meant 'monocoque'). I didn't think cars were available with monocot or dicot construction.
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Replace the firmware
Re:Ok, I get it now... (Score:5, Insightful)
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And worst of all, its ugly. Who the hell makes an OS with a bright-red themed GUI?
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That's assuming that really is a huge revenue stream, fully justifying the amount they're spending on locking down every phone they sell - the programming, the tech support, the lost custom, etc.
It almost certainly doesn't. They can still sell ring-tones even without locking down every phone in existence, they'll just sell less of them. How much less? Probably not so much less that it suddenly justifies the costs of the locking down.
T-Mobile and AT&T both, today, run open networks. 100% open networ
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I surf from my phone occasionally, and a couple months ago Verizon started putting fscking BANNER ADS on their mobile web portal. And if I choose to go to my stored URLs, there's so much crap on the page, the stuff I want to see doesn't even show up on the first screenful. And the browser's crap: I have not yet found a way to enter a phrase containing a space character in a password field, it's hard to use the drop-downs that have terms you've previously entered into text boxes (I've only ma
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I've known many people, including myself, that have had to hard-reset their phones over the last year or two, losing ring tones, games, pictures and contacts. Aside from
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I just wanted to chime in that I do agree that their firmware can be kind of crap sometimes. My eNV has been known to reboot itself from time to time with the occasional hard lockup forcing me to remove the battery. I haven't lost any data yet, but I now try to keep everything on my memory card.
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Re:Ok, I get it now... (Score:5, Insightful)
You can always go to another provider... competition should cause the value you get to increase.
The problem isn't Verizon... the problem is the oligarchy of cell phone providers. With too few participants on their side of the market, they do not face enough competitive pressure to make your cell phone experience better. The answer is to either regulate them better, or to open up the market to more competitors (which probably wouldn't work, due to high barriers to entry).
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When my GNU/Linux box doesn't work, I don't call Earthlink. I only call them if there's a problem with their service. That's pretty much how it should be.
If my GNU/Linux LTE phone doesn't work, I doubt I'll call Verizon (or Google, or T-Mobile, or whoever I use.)
They can also reduce their support costs... (Score:2)
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It's VoIP, but that doesn't mean the carrier can't charge for them separately. MultiMedia Messaging (MMS) is also done over IP using current platforms, and people aren't generally charged data charges for using it (the operator usually pricing MMS messages at a fixed rate.)
That said, it would surprise me if operators don't generally move to a flatter business model. That's what's going on in the US already (most of the "minutes packages" are considerably higher than anyone generally needs taking into acc
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I hate to say it, but my T-Mobile service "just works" too. And the people around here with Verizon service don't like it.
Verizon "just works" where they're strong. T-Mobile too. Both also have patches of the country where they suck.
Sprint has the same control freakery Verizon does, and has a much poorer reputation nationwide. AT&T is almost as open as T-Mobile and they too have problems. You can't easily tie openness to reliability or unreliability, it just doesn't work that way.
Verizon Embraces Google's Android (Score:5, Funny)
Too bad androids are only able to return the gesture of affection with a cold, dead indifference.
Fully Functional (Score:2, Informative)
A Java-ish success? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:A Java-ish success? (Score:5, Informative)
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The language is Java, though, and it fits in nicely with Java development environments.
Relevent and Hip (Score:2)
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The one big deal is when putting in their fiber infrastructure they damaged bu sprinklers. It took 1 5 minute phone call at 4PM and they were out the next day and fixed it.
They cut my DSL monthly fee in half, mid contract.
Quite frankly, I don't understand the Verizon hate. Yes they area large company, but overall they seem to play well.
Now that they see that the telecom industry is on
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I don't doubt their land line service is great. I've gotten excellent service with the cell phone section of the company too. But the moves just seem more marketing driven than market driven.
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Because, quite frankly, when I had DSL through Verizon I was supposed to be getting 768/128 and was instead getting 350/70 during off-peak times and 250/50 during on-peak (and it was a college town so the off-peak times were limited). Latency was high with round-trip averages in the 200ms range and spikes to 350+ (my 53k dialup through icontech.com at home in PA was steady at 175ms to 180ms).
You know what's a better way to get me to sign up? (Score:3, Interesting)
Verizon's Data-Plan is 80 per month base (with no option for not buying voice time), versus T Mobile's 40 a month (with no Voice plan). That doesn't include the use of wifi spots, which comes standard for t-mobile but is extra on Verizon. I'm an open-source guy, but I'll take a locked proprietary phone that works as a bluetooth modem for my (soon to own, hopefully) Nokia n810 over a google android phone on an open network any day of the week, when it's going to cost me 40 less a month.
Well (Score:2)
Only because it's cheaper, I guess.
Re:You know what's a better way to get me to sign (Score:2)
Hey, this isn't a soup kitchen! If your first born wants service, they have to PAY for it, pal!
Re:You know what's a better way to get me to sign (Score:2)
It's $59.99 a month for EVDO high-speed internet whether you have a qualifying voice line or not.
Given the fact that the service covers over 280 million people makes it worth a little extra. I doubt Verizon would charge you less for their data plans if you decide to use a non-standard handset.
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Ingenious corporate spin (Score:4, Insightful)
. . . Verizon Wireless won't offer the same level of customer service as it does for the roughly 50 phone models featured in its handset lineup . . . Verizon plans only to ensure the wireless connection is working for customers who buy those devices. "They have to talk to their handset provider or their application provider if they have particular issues," McAdam says.
So, who's to say if "the wirelss connection is working" - The customer? Verizon? The device itself? Application support? What kind of sense does THAT make? I can't hold a call for 5 blocks in a downtown urban area, but because my 'phone provider says the coverage maps report solid coverage, the problem of course must be my handset -- which of course they can replace with a "newer, better model" for just $199.95.
Add to that their sudden outbreak of common sense regarding their business model, in that
. . . the bulk of their energy goes to helping current subscribers with questions and problems. McAdam & Co. decided the business model was not sustainable."
What a great opportunity for Verizon to reduce their already phenomenally bad customer service and imply that it's not their fault that they must do.
That might be the most ingenious corporate spin I've ever heard. Seriously.
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Re:Ingenious corporate spin (Score:4, Interesting)
So, who's to say if "the internet connection is working" - the customer? Comcast? the computer itself? Windows/Linux support? Makes sense to me, we deal with this all the time! Would you rather that ISP's sold rigorously tested locked down PCs that they could give customer support on? Or would you rather that connection and your computer remained separate, so you contact them when your internet SERVICE doesn't work, and contact the computer/application developers for support when the device doesn't work.
I think the problem is that people are so used to being fucked by phone companies, its hard to see how things should be. Ideally, service should be completely separate from the device. Yes, you would now have to trust two different entities, the service company for connectivity and the device maker for a robust device, but we seem to do this just fine with TV and computers.
It looks like they are trying to move away from the locked down phones for greedy reasons, but if it works out that way its better for us. If they are actually doing this, I see it as a good thing for competition and the abysmal situation in the US for cell service. Whether or not they actually go through with it only time will tell
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...Verizon Wireless won't offer the same level of customer service as it does for the roughly 50 phone models featured in its handset lineup . . . Verizon plans only to ensure the wireless connection is working for customers who buy those devices. "They have to talk to their handset provider or their application provider if they have particular issues," McAdam says.
That might be the most ingenious corporate spin I've ever heard. Seriously.
You may be right. OTOH, it really isn't reasonable for Verizon or any other provider to provide in depth tech support for a device that they didn't sell you. There will be a certain amount of finger pointing (just like there is now with router problems - the router's tech support people say the problem must be with the internet connection, the ISP says it's with the router...). But I'm willing to wait and see what kind of experience people actually have instead of deciding in advance that it's just a
Better off (Score:2)
As a Verizon Customer... (Score:2)
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Looking forward to Android phones... (Score:2)
I'm glad that a major provider is jumping on. From a development perspective at least, Android is a breath of fresh air in the mobile phone industry. Hopefully it will be for end users as well, but I suppose that remains to be seen. =)
CDMA and GSM protocol support (Score:3, Insightful)
Despite what summary implies... (Score:2)
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They'll probably be using both systems in parallel. LTE is relatively flexible in spectrum usage, and Verizon is bidding on the upcoming 700MHz auctions any way.
It's unlikely they'll be getting rid of the CDMA2000 network completely any time soon, though if they have any sense, once they've started a serious roll out of the LTE stuff, they should drop sales of CDMA2000 devices to avoid getting in the same situation as, say, AT&T and Cingular who were both selling D-AMPS phones until a year or so befo
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There's been some discussion of LTE vs. UMB. LTE comes from the GSM world, and UMB from the CDMA world, but they're more similar than alike, and not at all like GSM *or* CDMA. LTE and UMB are based on OFDMA technology, more akin to mobile WiMAX. So it'll be a "forklift upgrade" for Verizon, unlike the CDMA-2000 transit
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UMTS has caught on with most GSM operators - their major issue isn't any "forklift" upgrade (I think you're saying a switch to an entirely unrelated technology, but that's not the case, the upper levels of GSMv2 and UMTS are very similar) but the spectrum issues it has coupled with regulatory challenges. W-CDMA and TD-CDMA, the two major UMTS air interfaces, require 5 MHz of spectrum in either direction to work properly which has been a problem for US operators as many only have 5MHz of spectrum in various
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somebody had to (Score:5, Funny)
level up (Score:2)
Embrace!? (Score:3, Insightful)
All this talk of Verizon "openness" is just talk. Right in time for all the publicity around the 700MHz auction.
I have no idea what their strategy is, but I can assure you being more open is not their goal.
Android:Cellphones :: Firefox:Browsers (Score:2, Insightful)
US Becomes GSM? (Score:2)
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Not to mention, the other CDMA carriers will lose the significant roaming payments Verizon pays to them (especially in the areas of the country where only rural cell phone carriers have coverage) and will miss out on any new roaming payments that
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do all GSM phones make that noise? why? (Score:2)
seriously... as somebody that works doing professional audio work i effectively can not have a GSM phone because they emit that noise even through shielded cables. they interfere with industry standar
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Does the cable company's guarantee it is shielded from the acceptable broadcast of GSM?
I have found, and proven, many bad cables even when the engineer is 'sure' it's not the cable. Always because they depended on the manufactures reputation and considered the cables as 'golden'
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I think its a good move (Score:2)
I have some relatives that work for Verizon and what goes on behind the scenes is truly beyond description...but at the end of the day I like their service a lot, t
Is this Vondafone vs Apple? (Score:2, Insightful)
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Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a big chunk of Verizon owned by Vodafone?
A big chunk of Verizon Wireless is owned by them, not Verizon itself.
Wikipedia is your friend [wikipedia.org]: Verizon Wireless is a joint venture of Verizon Communications and Vodafone Group, with 55 and 45 percent ownership respectively.
So yeah, Vodafone owns 45% of it. But Verizon has majority ownership and control. It's a good relationship for Vodafone in that they get dividends from Verizon Wireless. It's a bad relationship in that they are completely at the mercy of Verizon management as to what those dividen
Re:not yet an iphone killer... (Score:4, Informative)
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In the cited article Joel sums up something that applies here: "Smart companies try to commoditize their products' complements". This is what android is doing, and hence will allow Verizon to do. If their product's compliments (software) becomes a commodity then it will drive demand for their products up. Verizon doesn't sell phones, they sell access to their huge network.
In the same way IBM develops open source software because it helps sell big iron, Google and
Thanks. (Score:2)
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It's not insightful because Verizon isn't doing anything that AT&T, T-Mobile, and the entire European Mobile phone industry, hasn't been doing for decades.
Verizon has been a hold-out trying to buck the trend, together with a small but loud bunch of Qualcomm influenced US operators. They're not building the bandwagon, they're trying to jump on board.
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It invalidates the parent's (your) post because the your post claimed that the OP was insightful.
The OP was claiming that Verizon "just blew up the US cell phone industry". Verizon has done no such thing. Verizon has jumped onto a pre-existing bandwagon.
I did read the article the OP posted, it doesn't change the fact that the major claim made by the OP was false. The article linked to does not in any way support the OP's claim. If I claim that God is a 7' Chinese Woman living in the Seattle Space Needl
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You can go back under the bridge now "never impressed".
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Given that the blown up sentence was, actually, the entire body of the comment, yes, you should have looked at it. The link was an extra, not even clickable, and barely related to the OP's point.
The OP was just wrong. Giving a URL of an interesting but barely on-topic article doesn't change that, and I'm surprised you feel the need to insult people who disagree with the notion that a comment that's 100% wrong is worthy of modding up.
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The post was modded "off topic" my post said it was on topic. I provided proof using statements from the linked article (it wasn't clickable? are you capable of cut/paste?). You claim it wasn't insightful. I never said it was. I said it was on topic. I stand by that.
As for insults - suck it. I'm not some high and mighty scholar like thyself. For I am but a humble servant of all that is caveman in the world. So take your pretend objection
Based on your advice... (Score:2)
What now?
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So you bought a device that's locked to a particular network and uses an only partially open protocol stack to an open network running an entirely different protocol. And it didn't work.
I assume you think TEH INTERNETS is closed too, because the AppleTalk network stack on your Mac 128k doesn't work on it either.
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LTE is an evolution of the GSM family. UMTS was a refactoring with GSM's protocols being layered to run over a CDMA air interface. UMTS is now being refactored further so the high level protocols (voice and messaging services) can run over the Internet (IMS), and the CDMA (W-CDMA) stuff is being ripped out (as it should be) and replaced by a WiMAX-like interface. The two groups of layers still use GSM SIM cards etc so an integrated "phone" device can still be made, and they still use a GSM model of the sub