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Wireless Networking Hardware

Tempe City-Wide Wireless Snags 108

Posted by Zonk from the contractors-should-be-vetted dept.
Triumph The Insult C writes "About a month ago, the dot carried a story about the city of Tempe, AZ, laying claim to be the first major metropolitan area to provide city-wide broadband internet access. Well, things haven't gone exactly as planned, as one of the companies involved, MobilePro Corp, is now being investigated by the state for not holding the appropriate permits. As a resident of downtown Tempe, I hope the rollout isn't successful, as I would much prefer to see a more community-based effort, such as in Seattle, Austin, and New York City."
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Tempe City-Wide Wireless Snags More

Tempe City-Wide Wireless Snags

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  • Wha? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    About a month ago, the dot carried a story

    The "dot"?

  • It would be great to see the wireless internet as a city utility (like phone, electricity, etc). A dream, but a also a hope...

    • Re:A dream.. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by BlogPope ( 886961 )
      It would be great to see the wireless internet as a city utility (like phone, electricity, etc). A dream, but a also a hope...

      A regulated monopoly run as a for profit company? Why would you dream about that?

    • Re:A dream.. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by LFS.Morpheus ( 596173 )
      Last time I checked, my phone and electricity didn't come out of the town's taxes. Sure, they're government price-controlled utilities (because they're monopolies), but they're still run by private companies. Here in upstate NY, I make my checks out to Niagara Mohawk and Verizon.
      • Don't know about other states but in North Carolina there are several cities that run their own electrical companies. They've even got a non-profit trade organization called ElectriCities. I expect that they send power bills separate from property tax bills though.
    • these are private monopolies forcing their services on cities.

      if the city administered these programs, they would be free. let me repeat that, they would be free.

      since republicans started forcing cities to buy services from companies, rather than provide the service themselves, the price has increased.

      look at property taxes. they used to include garbage pickup service. now my city requires pre-paid stickers for each bag of garbage to be picked up.

      as for internet wireless, the cost is free right n

    • How about a publicly city owned coop that only owns maintains and constructs the wired infastructure for the wireless. They would build according to permits and own specification a complete fiber network connected to the internet. Then they lease use to the big internet companies to provide to you.

      So in the end you pay verizon/comcast or whoever and part of that bill goes through them to pay the city coop for use of the high speed (say fiber) lines. The big company only connects the last little distance
  • What permits are they missing? The 2.4 GHz band is unregulated spectrum, and only the FCC has the authority to regulate radio spectrum.

    • Re:Permits for what? (Score:2, Informative)

      by xted ( 125437 )
      the AP's have to physically be located somewhere, and use electricity somebody is paying for. They'll need permits for all of this.

      • Re:Permits for what? (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        From the tempe.gov site posted below:
        "In return for MobilePro's agreement to build and operate a Municipal network for the City's use, Tempe agrees to grant limited use of the City street light infrastructure and existing fiber backhaul locations for Mobile Pro to deploy its network."

        From TFA:
        "Dave Heck, deputy manager of information technology for Tempe, said MobilePro should be treated like other communications firms that do not need a license to build wireless systems because they plan to use a subcontr

    • Re:Permits for what? (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      BRING BACK MY AUTOPR0N!!!!

  • Wireless town (Score:3, Funny)

    by GreatRedShark ( 880833 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @10:22PM (#12661783)
    The town near my aunt's cottage went totally wireless when some drunk driver knocked over the pole that connected them to everything else...
    I didn't rtfa though, so maybe this isn't the same thing...
    • The town near my aunt's cottage went totally wireless when some drunk driver knocked over the pole that connected them to everything else...

      I think it's safe to assume that when wires get destroyed, a town is wireless. So what did they do for power? Get that wireless?
    • "The town near my aunt's cottage went totally wireless when some drunk driver knocked over the pole that connected them to everything else...
      I didn't rtfa though..."

      Hey, at least he's got an excuse. I usually just blame slashdotting.

  • Excellent (Score:4, Funny)

    by Albinofrenchy ( 844079 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @10:26PM (#12661806)
    Excellent, now I can take down the protective siding around my house, what with these intrusive waves going away.

  • Why expect the city foot the bill? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by maynard ( 3337 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @10:26PM (#12661807) Journal
    I mean, OK if a community votes on a measure and the town sets up community funded wireless. But why would the original submission author hope for a private business to fail in the expectation that a town government would step up and fill their shoes? I mean, not only does it seem an unlikely outcome, but it's also mean spirited. Hey, if a business sets up something you want at a reasonable price - what's wrong with that? Would you prefer the government run this? \*cough!\* I call myself a liberal, but frankly, I'd rather see private industry handle this sort of thing. JMO. --M
    • I work in Tempe and will be buy a house there next month, and I'm more than happy to pay for such a service.

      Now I can go hang out at a bar on Mill AND be an anti-social websurfer at the same time!

      Seriously though, weren't they planning on charging a pretty low price? Like $25/mo?
      • The contractor hired to build out the Tempe citywide wireless service is being stopped by the state because they lack the proper permits to build out on public infrastructure (like traffic lights, etc). So the state is stopping the city from installing the public service by halting the contractor (whether they're doing this for private interests or for regulatory reasons was unclear from the article). Duh. I should have read it before replying to the author's submission. --M

    • "Hey, if a business sets up something you want at a reasonable price - what's wrong with that? Would you prefer the government run this?"

      Strawman: Hi everybody!

      Everybody: Hi, Strawman!!

      Sorry to dump on you like that, but you seem to have missed the part in the comment where the poster says:

      "As a resident of downtown Tempe, I hope the rollout isn't successful, as I would much prefer to see a more community-based effort, such as in Seattle, Austin, and New York City."

      [Links omitted from the quota

    • "I call myself a liberal, but frankly, I'd rather see private industry handle this sort of thing."

      Um, when was the last time you looked up the word liberal? Liberalism is about freedom.

    • a common misconception about government.
      The government is a collection of resources that work on the behalf of you and I. We pay taxes so that all of us can lead better lives

      If you think about it, the system works incredibly well, despite what the so-called conservatives will tell you.

      The government provides you with a lot of benefits for your small contribution. Let's say that you pay $20,000 a year in taxes. That sounds like a lot of money, but it pays for a lot of things you need.

      Things like roa
      • hey have never had a standing army.

        That's because other countries have generously paid for the armies to protect them. Canada is another excellent example of a country taking advantage of other's. Their government treats our military commanders like royalty when they visit.

      • Well, so be pedantic, the "post" suffers from no misconception at all - being a collection of words. You might argue that I suffer from a misconception on the role of government, but that's a different issue.

        I happen to support many government run services. I find that government tends to perform better service at the local and state level, which is not too surprising given that the federal government tends to set too many standards which are often not applicable nationally. Basic infrastructure is a fine
  • I've seen a lot of talk about 'breaking the stranglehold' of the ISPs etc - but when you offer 'free' WiFi, don't you still have to connect to the internet using an ISP. No wonder the ISPs are fighting this - tehy're going to see a huge spike in their bandwidth usage if every user suddenly starts opening up his/her connection as part of a 'community' net.

  • Local vs. State (Score:3, Informative)

    by Xeroc ( 877174 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @10:30PM (#12661826)
    The actual issue seems to be that the company (MobilePro Corp.) isn't registered with the Arizona Registrar of Contractors. The city officals, however, say the company doesn't need a general contractors license, so they are planning to continue with the construction.

    This seems to be Local vs. State issue and while the State doesn't seem to be able to directly cancel the project, they can boot the company out of the state, so they'd need a new company to add to the infrastructure as they are planning to build the Wi-Fi.

  • cost... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    FTA:
    "City officials said they don't know how much it would cost to install the broadband network."
    Then why the heck are they doing it if they don't know how much it's going to cost?
  • Pardon my ignorance on the subject, but in regards to public physical wireless internetworks, what keeps we private citizens from setting up a global wireless network?

    Seriously, I don't mean a megabit dealy-bob or anything. just a couple nice 10's of K global wireless hot spot for the masses?

    Don't we have the technology to broadcast great distances and without sophisticated (by todays standards) consumer-level equipment?

    I'll setup an repeater if it's pretty cheap to buy and assemble one ¦D

    (I imagin
  • Is this really how you want your tax dollars spent? I mean seriously. If this was in my town I would rather they refunded us the money they would have spent on the project then going forwarded with it.
    When will you people get it, capitalism, private industry always trumps government.
    Look at NASA. Now look at Burt Rutan. Now look at NASA again.

    Citywide wireless as a city run service?

    I hope you enjoy the crappy service you are gonna get. I hope you like the speed you are gonna get. Cause if the city c
    • When will you people get it, capitalism, private industry always trumps government.

      Would you care to elaborate? There are many things that the government does that private industry won't, or can't do.

      Look at NASA. Now look at Burt Rutan. Now look at NASA again.

      Yeah, so what? How is Burt Rutan vs. NASA relevant? The government (and industry) does a lot more than build space vehicles. How would Burt Rutan have been able to do what he did, if government did not provide a stable society and economy for hi

      • Burt Rutan has actually put a human being in space in the last year.
        NASA is so scared to launch there multi-billion dollar meal ticket that we will be lucky if it isn't another year before that thing goes in space.
        • Burt Rutan has actually put a human being in space in the last year. NASA is so scared to launch there multi-billion dollar meal ticket that we will be lucky if it isn't another year before that thing goes in space.

          So what? How does that prove that private industry always trumps government? I could cherry-pick dozens of cases where the government has done a better job than private industry. But it doesn't prove anything.

          The original poster was choosing a highly specific, specialized case, and using that t

          • Okay, first of all, if I never read the word "strawman" again, it will be too soon. Second of all, that term refers to a specific type of argument, and does not refer to "choosing a highly specific, specialized case, and using that to try and show that private industry is always better than government" it refers to choosing an argument that is weaker than the presented argument, and proving it wrong, in order to prove your own argument right in all cases. In a sense, you create a "straw man" and defeat it
            • '"Not even considering the fact that Burt Rutan is hardly typical of "private industry" as a whole. He's more of an enthusiast."

              That's just absurd. Burt Rutan runs a company called Scaled Composites, they develop aircraft, and sell rights to the technology and design. He is not an enthusiast, because he makes money running his own business (enthusiasts spend money on their hobby, they don't make money at their job). Calling him an enthusiast is almost an insult, and it is certainly a huge understatement. H
        • Burt Rutan has actually put a human being in space
          But honestly, who cares? What do you think that has to do with NASA's mission? Manned space flight is a side show that has been maintained to entertain the masses who weren't entertained anyhow. It has almost nothing to doing space science, which is NASA's strength. I enjoy Star Trek and find it diverting occasionaly in a dramatic sense, but it is FANTASY. It is about as realistic as Lord of the Rings.

          When Burt Rutan does a successful robotic mission to M

    • When will you people get it, capitalism, private industry always trumps government. Look at NASA. Now look at Burt Rutan. Now look at NASA again.

      Sure, then take a look at Burt Rutan again and wait until he makes something that that goes beyond what NASA did with it's Mercury flights ~45 years ago. Rutan had a interesting design and did a lot but the fact remains that Spaceship One can't even compare to the Gemini flights much less the the Space Shuttle.

      I would rethink worshipping at the temple of capit

      • Re:I don't understand people sometimes.... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by MustardMan ( 52102 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @11:57PM (#12662167)
        I couldn't agree with you more. All rutan did was pay some people to build a sub-orbital space vehicle. NASA funds SCIENTIFIC research in a huge number of fields that greatly advance our understanding of the universe. The whole "NASA sucks" virgin-galactic worship thing really pisses me off. You're talking about one of the largest, most productive research organizations in the history of humankind, and comparing it to a guy who solved a minor engineering problem by drawing from existing technologies. I'm not saying NASA couldn't use some serious reorganization and better administration, but comparing the work of its many talented scientists to a company that built a glorified airplane is foolish, disrepectful, and incredibly short-sighted.

        • It isn't and it never has been. New frontiers have always, always been driven by the desire for exploration backed by the promise of commerce.

          I have no problem with the government funding blue sky science, it basically wouldn't get done otherwise but NASA amalgamates the science with a government funded monopoly on the access to space.

          Rutan is doing more for space travel than NASA has ever done, and this actually has nothing to do with the technical contribution but is because of the social contributi

          • New frontiers have always, always been driven by the desire for exploration backed by the promise of commerce.

            New frontiers have always been driven by the desire of killing other people more efficiently and from longer distance. A lot of hightech stuff came from military research.

            Then the private business comes and parasites on taxpayer-funded research once its fruit gets declassified, rediscovered elsewhere, or leaked by eg. espionage.

    • RTFA... Tempe traded the ability of the wireless company to utilize the 4.7 GHZ band in exchange for them providing wifi service to the entire city. No money flows from Tempe to the wireless company, at any level, police, fire, or for any other municipal services. In addition, all Tempe and ASU related sites will be availiable free of charge.

      The rest will be a subscription service.

      I generally oppose government running services, but I think this is a good way of doing it. A private company is given a 4
    • What about roads? Who is responsible for the roads where you live? Water, electricity, phone etc etc.

      How is a city run monopoly different from a privately run monopoly? Well, at least with the city run service you get to choose the people doing the running.

      The question I suppose is, is it possible or reasonable to have multiple suppliers of the physical infrastructure? Is it possible or reasonable to have multiple suppliers of services making use of that infrastructure?

  • Tempe Wireless (Score:3, Interesting)

    by matmcfad ( 842760 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @10:43PM (#12661889)
    I currently live in Tempe, Arizona attending the University of Advancing Technology. This seems like a poorly planned project. Already in downtown Tempe stores have free WAP's opened up, ASU has free Wireless all over campus, note its huge 57,000 students, and even at my college, www.uat.edu, The University of Advancing Technology, we offer free wireless access to the community. No one is going to pitch in the money to pay for this service, most consumers have access to the internet via cox cable internet for $40 a month and businesses. There is no incentive to switch over. Our college, sponsered a wardriving project in which we found a lot of information about Tempe and the valley. The project was to map out the whole Phoenix valley WAPS. "The wardriving project is already 1/3 complete, after starting this fall. That was done with a crew of Al Kelly's war rivers who volunteered to set up the laptops (provided by UAT), configure the GPS and wardriving kits. "For the upcoming semester, students will go in wardriving crews to canvas the Phoenix valley and search out wireless networks. The data will be collected and then analyzed against demographic information such as age, income and commercial characteristics of the scanned areas. Wardriving crews have already gone on reconnaissance trips, and in a nearby seven-mile square mile area, found more than 1,000 access points." From my understanding I am sure more people will post from my school but they have found like over 200,000 non secured access points. I bet a lot of people are asking why do we need to pay $40 for city wide wireless since its already being offered free (legally that is)? Thats a good question.
  • I personally don't understand what the author is talking about. Yes, there is some development by the community (both public and private) of the wireless network in the city, but it is very limited. Currently, we have some cafes, various public buildings, and a scattering of parks that have free access.

    Overall though, I wouldn't put the percentage at higher then _maybe_ 2% of the city as being truly wireless. And I'm not talking about putting wireless way out in the fringe neighborhoods and suburbs,

  • Bitterness & hopes of failure (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dangitman ( 862676 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @10:58PM (#12661944)
    As a resident of downtown Tempe, I hope the rollout isn't successful, as I would much prefer to see a more community-based effort, such as in Seattle, Austin, and New York City."

    You hope that something that could be useful to many people will fail, just because you like something else? You want to see money wasted, just to feel superior?

    Why does this rollout succeeding, stop you from contributing to community efforts? Maybe you should make an effort to do better yourself, with your community ideas, rather than simply hoping that others fail. What an attitude!

    • as a matter of fact, i have met and discussed the idea of a community based effort with a handful of people

      but having to deal with DTC [downtowntempe.com] is not particularly easy. DTC is not a particularly pleasant organization. retribution is definitely within their capabilities. the city gov't is much the same (imo)
    • You hope that something that could be useful to many people will fail, just because you like something else? You want to see money wasted, just to feel superior?

      Why does this rollout succeeding, stop you from contributing to community efforts? Maybe you should make an effort to do better yourself, with your community ideas, rather than simply hoping that others fail. What an attitude!

      Your attitude? Re-read what was written; the poster hopes that the commercial rollout isn't successful so that there's a b
    • Obviously you don't understand how government works.

      If the government is offering million dollar contracts to provide a service, and politicians are staking their reputation on this spending (and most likely getting kickbacks), how receptive do you think those very powerful people are going to be to a group of people rolling out their own wireless network with better service at a fraction of the cost?

      Unless the city rollout fails, if you try to run your community wireless network, you are going to have th
  • You say: "I hope the rollout isn't successful as I would much prefer to see a more community-based effort, such as in Seattle, Austin, and New York City." I'm confused. Isn't the city really just a reflection of a community? If not, what is it?
  • I hope the rollout isn't successful, as I would much prefer to see a more community-based effort

    I would personally prefer to see all the potential rollout models and have a choice as a consumer.
  • > As a resident of downtown Tempe, I hope the
    > rollout isn't successful, as I would much prefer
    > to see a more community-based effort, such as in
    > Seattle, Austin, and New York City.

    What do you do if the community-based effort turns out to be awful? there's nothing special about being community-based which means they're going to offer a brilliant service; they're more likely than commerical companies, in some respects, but less likely in others, to fail.

    If it's commerical, there's going to be
  • Hey, does anyone know if is this the 'asu_tempe' network we're talking about? It sounds like a different thing.

    asu_tempe works fine for downtown cafes (Mill Ave.) but that's about it. There's also a number of other networks there, but nothing on my part of town.

  • >>downtown Tempe...

    Where's that?
    • Ever heard of Phoenix, AZ? (its the fifth largest city in the US)
      Tempe is the college town bordering Phoenix.
      Its land locked by other larger cities, Mesa, Scottsdale, and Chandler.

      Downtown tempe is pretty much Mill Avenue. Nice place for most of the year, a little uncomfortable during the daytime in the summer.
      • Yeah, I know Phoenix. Used to live there. Might again, in the future. Nice city. So are the others you named.

        I know Tempe, too. I just can't recall it having anything anyone from back East would recognize as a downtown, Mill Avenue notwithstanding.

        But, I was being facetious. A little joke, you know.

        Is it below 100 today? Worst I ever saw it was 118 at Sky Harbor.

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