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Wireless Networking Portables Hardware

A Coffeeshop's Weekends Without Wi-Fi 513

Glenn Fleishman writes "Victrola Cafe and Art in Seattle is a popular coffeeshop that offers free Wi-Fi--except on the weekends. In an experiment, the cafe started shutting down its Wi-Fi network on Saturdays and Sundays after watching their culture erode: the shop became full (and was turning away customers) with six-to-eight hour Wi-Fi squatters, many of whom didn't even purchase anything. Their second Sunday without Wi-Fi was one of their best revenue days in some time. I don't propose a Wi-Fi (or free Wi-Fi) backlash, but it's interesting how with some time under their belt, the clash of inward facing technology and outward facing culture hit these particular entrepreneurs' limit."
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A Coffeeshop's Weekends Without Wi-Fi

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  • Their own fault.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by InsideTheAsylum ( 836659 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:24PM (#12650785)
    Lesse, they don't want to enforce the "buy something or get out" rule? Their loss...
  • Solution? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Xshare ( 762241 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:24PM (#12650787) Homepage
    Easy Solution: Make people buy something to use wifi, and propose a 2-hour limit, or however much you deem necessary.
  • easier solution... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by killa62 ( 828317 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:25PM (#12650795)
    An esasier solution would be to just have hourly changing codes to enter that would be given to people who boutght something, that way, squatters would have to buy stuff every hour and therefore not be squatters anymore.
  • by Dancin_Santa ( 265275 ) <DancinSanta@gmail.com> on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:25PM (#12650797) Journal
    Obviously what they ought to do is give time-limited wifi passkeys that can be "charged" when the customer buys a product. That way they don't get lingerers/squatters who are only there for the wifi without having to pay.

    The higher the receipt, the longer the passkey works. It's a decent system, if not a little burdensome for freeloaders.

    The question becomes, How easily or feasible would it be to put such a system into practice?
  • by yagu ( 721525 ) <{yayagu} {at} {gmail.com}> on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:30PM (#12650820) Journal

    Isn't this yet another syndrom associated with advancing technology? I can understand wanting to sneak in a few minutes of productivity during a quiet moment of opportunity but have always tried being discreet (and discrete). But I've seen the described behavior in a local Chicago coffee shop... squatters who were there at different times of the day as I passed through. Not only did they not really appear to be paying customers, they:

    • monopolized entire tables capable of seating four with: laptop, some analog of an iPod, spare battery(ies), headhphones, and typically paperwork
    • typically were buried in their headphones
    • made no eye contact with anyone

    I have a friend who has a startup refreshment shop, and foot traffic and available space for paying customers is precious. These shop owners aren't making any fortune with their stores, they (at least my friend) do it out of love of the job (interacting with long-time customers, meeting new people, becoming an established figure of the local community).

    I also have another friend who frequents a local Seattle coffee shop a lot. It seems from talking with him he is an honorable patron, but I do get the impression he doesn't interact much with anyone there.

    Cell phones, laptops, pdas, portable music devices... they all have driven a somewhat asocial behavior. In public it's mostly annoying, maybe a little rude, sometimes outright boorish, but in a coffe shop, good for the owners to shut down the wireless on weekends (for example...). Sounds like they made a right move based on the almost immediate response and thanks received from regulars.

    Frankly, the day cell phones and laptops, etc. become totally uncool in public can't come too soon for me. In the meantime (shameless plug) if you're looking for more social ways of using technology consider and look into BookCrossing.com [bookcrossing.com]. It's been mentioned here on slashdot before -- it's a cool way of using technology to share books (something a little less technical, and a lot more social).

  • by jacen_sunstrider ( 797955 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:31PM (#12650827) Homepage Journal
    But you couldn't get anything done that way. When I go online anywhere, it's going to take me almost an hour just to situate myself! I don't want to be interruped, not only to change the code (presumably an encryption key) but also go and purchase something.

    It'd be better if I could buy seven cups of coffee for seven hours of MUDdin^H^H^H^H^H^Hbrowsing the internet.
  • by rokzy ( 687636 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:32PM (#12650830)
    um, what part of "one of their best revenue days" is so hard to understand?

    I think they've done well. an attitude of "buy or get out" would be devastating to any sense of culture. terribly vulgar. not because of the principle, but just the impossibilty of implementing it without leading to bad customer service.

    and weekends aren't so important as weekdays for people to have internet for business purposes, and are much more likely to be kids using it for fun, so it makes sense.
  • by rokzy ( 687636 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:34PM (#12650843)
    >In all seriousness though, whatstops wifi users from sitting in a car outside? or in the shop nextdoor?

    self-respect?
  • by InsideTheAsylum ( 836659 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:34PM (#12650848)
    The people who were gonna buy will buy anyways and the people who weren't, won't..

    I'm not saying that you post a bunch of signs on the walls and stuff, but if you see someone squating day after day you come up to them, tap them on the shoulder and say, "Excuse me sir, can you PLEASE SOD OFF YOU WORTHLESS PLACE TAKING PIECE OF SOD?!?!"! Well, ok, maybe not quite like that.
  • by johndierks ( 784521 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:38PM (#12650874)
    I live just a few block from the Victrola, and they're right. Often times 75%-90% of the people in there have laptops open. Often time I'm guilty myself.

    It used to be a great place were you could go drink a great cup of coffee and probably meet a cute indy chick, but ever since WiFi, everyone is so buried in their iBooks updating their MySpace page [myspace.com] that no one talks to each other.

    The best part is watching the the Seattle Craigslist Missed Connection [craigslist.org] page fill up with "You are a cute 20 that something redhead sitting over there in the corner. Damn I wish you'd close your iBook so I could talk to you." posts.

  • by Hawthorne01 ( 575586 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:40PM (#12650886)
    to attract *paying* customers. Once again, the actions of a few spoil it for everyone else.

    Eventually, some sort of ettiquette will work it's way to the surface, as it has with bulletin boards or email. I make it a point to a) seek out coffee shops with free wifi (www.delocator.net) and buy something as a sign of appreciation for the free connection. Would it kill the freeloaders to buy a small cup of decaf at the very least?
  • self-respect?

    Doesn't stop them from squatting inside for 8 hours...
  • by ortcutt ( 711694 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:43PM (#12650911)
    This will all sort itself out when every cafe has free WIFI. Then you won't end up with some being busy while others aren't. I frequent a place that has WIFI and that is very laptop-friendly and I can say for sure that they do a lot of business because of it. Even the lingerers spend money because they want coffee and they get hungry and want donuts and bagels.
  • by pi_rules ( 123171 ) * on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:43PM (#12650913)
    In all seriousness though, whatstops wifi users from sitting in a car outside? or in the shop nextdoor?
    Well, nothing. However, to the shop owner their -space- is the resource that they're limited in. It isn't so much that they're sucking bandwidth but that they're occupying a chair/table and removing space for paying customers.

    Definately not ethical, but it would most likely be of little concern to the shop owner.
  • by mackman ( 19286 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:47PM (#12650938)
    It's not just about the money. It's about the atmosphere. Nothing kills the mood in a coffee house more than a bunch of people working on their laptops. Maybe during weekday afternoons it's ok, but I think killing WiFi in the evenings and on weekends is a great idea.
  • Re:Oh Great (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nasarius ( 593729 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:51PM (#12650965)
    you can't just give software away and make money on services.

    Oh? Tell that to Red Hat, et al.

  • by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @09:53PM (#12650977)
    an attitude of "buy or get out" would be devastating to any sense of culture

    Um... what culture is that, now? The one where the people who don't buy anything sponge off of the merchant's not free (to them) service? The one that burns up bandwidth that the merchant put there as a value to their customers?

    vulgar

    No, vulgar is using a merchant's services without participating in the implied contract: be our customer. Do those same people feel comfortable showing up there every morning to wash up in the merchant's restrooms, ask for some coffee for free, and then go on their way?

    It's not about whether the merchant would have to get into the awkward mode of policing their users for those that have or have not bought coffee... it's about the people who do buy it pointing out that the leeches are, well, leeches. And extracting a little social pain from them so that they get it, and don't wind up with an even stronger sense of entitlement than they already seem to have.
  • by petermgreen ( 876956 ) <plugwash@nOSpam.p10link.net> on Thursday May 26, 2005 @10:07PM (#12651049) Homepage
    one way would be to have some kind of rolling password system with the current code given either on a display (visible only inside the coffee shop) or on receipts

    i'm not sure bandwidth is really the issue here anyway.
  • Have you ever (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SengirV ( 203400 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @10:08PM (#12651056)
    tried to enforce that? IF, as they say, the place had reached capasity, then it would be a sea of people. Are you going to go around insulting peopole who actually purchased something and throw it away when done? Nothing like making your real customers feel like squatters to discourage repeat business. And the real squatters would simply lie and say they did buy something. It NEVER works out as simply as you think.
  • by twostar ( 675002 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @10:18PM (#12651116) Journal
    Seriously, everyone's suggesting these complex (for a normal coffee shop) solutions when they've already found one. Pulling the plug works fine for them, why is everyone up in arms. Dear god don't take the free internet away!
  • by kevcol ( 3467 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @10:20PM (#12651124) Homepage
    I think what he means is perfectly clear, at least to me. Especially if you read the article, the point is crystal: "Before Wi-Fi, 'People talked to each other, strangers met each other,' she said. Solitary activities might involve reading and writing, but it was part of the milieu. 'Those people co-existed with people having conversations,' said Strongin." IOW, the atmosphere of people communicating face to face. But what do I know? I sit in a NOC all day staring at a monitor.

    It reminds me of an old joke- 'The best way to kill a party is to turn on the TV.'
  • +1 funny? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Shihar ( 153932 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @10:21PM (#12651133)
    "Please. You can't fix social problems with technological solutions."

    "Please. You can't fix social problems with technological solutions."

    Are you joking? I don't even know where to start. Let's start with this. You are at a computer somewhere in the world. If semiconductors were to vanish tomorrow, wherever you are, your government would collapse, the balance of power in the world would be thoroughly shaken from head to foot, and millions, if not billions of people would die within a year.

    Take the same number of people in New York, drop then in a forest the same size as New York, and watch how quickly society implodes upon itself without the technological infrastructure to support it.

    Clearly, technology is doing something. Technology and society are so tightly tied together that you can't untangle one from the other without destroying something.

    I know some times when we bang things out on the keyboard they sound really insightful and intelligent, but some times we need to respect the preview button, read what we read, and decide if it really is insightful, or a load of thoughtless crap.
  • Re:How rude (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 26, 2005 @10:25PM (#12651149)
    Wow. Just wow. Only on Slashdot is it now "rude" to decline to offer a free service. How the hell do you fit that gigantic sense of entitlement through the door?
  • by whatthef*ck ( 215929 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @10:30PM (#12651188) Homepage
    A few decades ago, some restaurants and bars used to have prominent signs out front announcing that their premises were air-conditioned. Back then, not all places were, so on, say, a scorching July evening in a small town in the Kansas prairie, an air-conditioned bar or restaurant could reasonably expect to have an edge over the non-AC competition. I'm sure many proprietors noticed some of their "customers" lingering for hours over a half-eaten piece of pie or a single beer while they gabbed to their friends, obviously looking for a cheap or free way to escape the unbearable heat outside or in their homes.

    Nowdays, when virtually every place of public accomodation has AC, there are no doubt still people who might nurse a single latte for hours in the local coffee shop to escape an unbearably hot apartment, but they're not going to be numerous enough to be a burden on the system. After all, there are plenty of places with AC they can go to.

    The problem with Wi-Fi moochers is no doubt a real one now, but it will solve itself in time. Although it's not happening fast enough to suit me, the trends are toward free and ubiquitious Wi-Fi. When that day comes, and they're distributed among all of the bars, restaurants, coffee shops and libraries in a a given area, no one will worry about the one or two Wi-Fi moochers in their establishment at a given moment.
  • Re:Have you ever (Score:2, Insightful)

    by scat-cat ( 606809 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @10:32PM (#12651201) Journal
    It should be obvious why they do it. During the week they do not get a lot of business, so offering free wi-fi would increase the business. And since most of the people who do use it would be on a lunch break or only have a little time, there would be no problem. Come the weekend, the crowd would be different. Residents of the area, not people working in the area. They do not need the gimmick of wifi to bring people in, their customer base already exists. Similar deal to happy hour and lady's night at bars. Get people in when business is slow. Charge extra when there is a draw.
  • by aquarian ( 134728 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @10:42PM (#12651260)
    ...seems to work for most places. Most people's computers only work for 1-2 hours (most batteries aren't in top condition). So unless people bring more than one battery (unlikely for broke WiFi squatters), you can get them to leave by just not providing plugs.

    Stupidly, some coffeehouses have plugs all over the place anyway. Often this is left over from a previous restaurant business, where they had a lamp on every table, etc.

    So if you want people to limit their stay, just limit the electricity!
  • by ElBuf ( 887442 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @10:54PM (#12651313)
    I don't quite get this.

    Where I live, I actually haven't found any coffee shops that give away WiFi. That's OK, I'm willing to pay on the rare occasions when I need it, and to buy a coffee that I don't really want, and to limit my stay if the place is busy. I figured that made me a pretty good citizen. Turns out I'm also obligated to make friends with everyone?

    Sorry, no offense to anyone, but I don't go there for that; if they didn't have WiFi, I probably wouldn't be there at all. If I was, computer or not, I'd drink my coffee and leave without talking to anyone, unless I ran into someone I knew (and I know and am friends with many people). Some people are extroverts, some aren't. It doesn't have anything to do with stuff.

    Does that somehow limit the ability of others to engage in conversation? Not that I can see, but maybe I'm missing something. If you sell coffee and WiFi, you attract people who need coffee and/or WiFi, and lot of them might not know that they are also supposed to be giving warm fuzzy feelings to the owners and the rest of the clientele.

    ElBuf
  • by InfiniteWisdom ( 530090 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:00PM (#12651354) Homepage
    Solution 1: Implement system that requires a system to generate codes, have some kind of login mechanism and so on

    Solution 2: Flip the switch on the wireless router on weekends.

    You have some strange ideas about "easier"
  • by Hrodvitnir ( 101283 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:03PM (#12651384)
    I believe the idea is that it would be less of a hassle to just go somewhere that has power outlets (their house maybe?). Buying and carrying lots of laptop batteries is neither economical nor "coffee house cool".
  • Damn fine idea! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by kimanaw ( 795600 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:14PM (#12651462)
    Summer is upon us, Seattle's best time of the year, sunny, warm, and green. If you're so hung up w/ that damn laptop that you can't shut it off, kick back with a tall iced sweet tea, and enjoy the weekend, you shouldn't be allowed to enter the cafe, much less bogart the wifi.

    More power to 'em. In fact, I'd suggest that anyone entering w/ any electronic info device (yes, including cellphones) on the weekend be shown the exit and visited with a hail of derisive boos and laughter.

  • Re:Solution? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by An Onerous Coward ( 222037 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:14PM (#12651466) Homepage
    The problem isn't that wifi users are taking up space without paying for it. The problem is that laptop users are taking up space without contributing to the vibe that the coffee shop is trying to generate.

    Coffee shops are meant to be a highly social place, while the life of the computer addict is a solitary one. It sounds like they were ending up with a shop without energy, silent but for the tappity-tap-clicking of laptops. Even if the sea of laptops was purchasing goods at the same rate as the original, chatty crowd, I can see why they'd want the old atmosphere back.

    Bah. Within ten years, there will be dirt-cheap wifi everywhere, and people will go back to going to coffee shops for the old reason: to get laid.
  • by laughing rabbit ( 216615 ) on Thursday May 26, 2005 @11:54PM (#12651750)
    Maybe I'm square, but at home, the coffee is cheaper (but just as good-I get the beans from them), the chairs are more comfortable, and when I tire of it all, I can lay down and nap. I never understood sitting in a coffee shop with a laptop for an hour, much less several.
  • Re:How rude (Score:3, Insightful)

    by prockcore ( 543967 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @12:15AM (#12651838)
    Coffee shops provide Wifi so you can relax with a cup of coffee in a comfortable atmosphere while still being able to get that little extra bit of work done

    No. Coffee shops provide coffee so you can drink it. Everything else is ancillary.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 27, 2005 @02:02AM (#12652309)
    Since when is getting something to drink an invitation to be hit on by some jerk with a IQ of less than 50 ?

    I have better things to do than sit around and shoot the bull with stupid idiots who hang around coffee shops and can't figure out what to do with their lives.

    The only reason I would ever show up there is to get something to drink or when traveling, get wifi access so I can get my e-mail (via SSH tunnel of course).

    So just because you like to hit on people and think everything is a social event doesn't mean everyone is a happy go lucky party person.
  • by msuzio ( 3104 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @03:33AM (#12652634) Homepage
    No, apparently not. They did it. They made more money and had more happy people. Technology loses, sorry. It's not always this forward march towards inevitable happiness. You can back off a bit, take some time where you shut off the 'net, and be happy without being a total Luddite.

    Why in the world would they *want* to try a different, more complex, less likely to work solution when just shutting the darn thing off seems to be working fine? If some people don't like it, that's OK... they can go somewhere else. It's not the end of the world. If they lose enough customers, I guess they'd change their minds. Considering that many of the wi-fi users were not generating the revenue to justify the business they were driving off I think they might have made the right decision.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 27, 2005 @04:31AM (#12652908)
    Why is that better than simply TURNING THE FUCKING THING OFF?

    Are you guys high? Do you really think these poor slobs want to waste the time they need to spend making your soy mocha telling ingrate nerds to get the fuck out within earshot of some Yuppie who went there to to get away from assholes?

    Guess what brainiacs. They don't need your advice. The WiFi goes. Happiness reigns. Slashdot will discuss how things could have been better.

  • technolgy is intergrated with are society, but it has in no way fixed any societal problems.
    WE adapted technology into the way we bahave, not the other wya around.

    My favorite farside has a guy sitting in a little flying saucer zipping through the sky. On the roof of this flying saucer is a spilling cup of coffee.
    the caption:
    "Technology changes, people don't."

    BTW, BILLIONS would not die. Most of the world would get along. A billion, at the worst. consider most people in the world never use a computer
  • by 1u3hr ( 530656 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @05:34AM (#12653155)
    No, they booted everyone with laptops

    No. Just those who wanted continuous Internet. Surfing porn, P2P, Slashdot, yes, they needed that. To do email, download it all (I have no sympathy if you use webmail) and read and reply to it at leisure, send it off later. Write your documents, spreadsheets, blog, whatever and upload later too.

  • by AhBeeDoi ( 686955 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @06:55AM (#12653410)
    i'm not sure bandwidth is really the issue here anyway.
    Maybe, if one defines bandwidth as "available seating for paying customers".
  • Re:+1 funny? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 27, 2005 @07:10AM (#12653461)
    There's a difference between one area losing electricity for a month and the entire world losing electricity for a month.

    I'd say the majority of the world doesn't have access to reliable power as it is so it wouldn't really affect anyone but First World nations.

  • by coaxial ( 28297 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @09:59AM (#12654516) Homepage
    You (and the apparently the mods) have a bizzare definition of "easier". Let's see:

    1. Adding a firewall seperate from the WLAN router.
    2. Creating a system to generate random passwords.
    3. Modify the firewall so that it stays synced with the password generator.
    4. Replace/Modify the point-of-sale system so that it can distribute a unique password to each customer.


    Cost: $$$$$

    Versus

    Unplug the router every Friday at close, plug the router back in every Monday at open.

    Cost: 0

    Yeah. Option one is way easier.
  • by SethJohnson ( 112166 ) on Friday May 27, 2005 @11:23AM (#12655437) Homepage Journal


    You're totally right. An elegant solution would be expensive to do. How about a more crude implementation: 1. Buy 6 cheap netgear APs at Fry's for $10 each. 2. Configure each one with a different, but simple WEP. Use masking tape to label each one with its WEP.
    3. Connect each one to one of those cheap electric outlet timer gizmos so it runs for an hour then shuts off. Sync the timers so one there is always at least one running.
    4. Put all this junk behind the counter.
    5. Magic marker a sign that says, "Ask cachier to write the wi-fi password on your receipt." Attach to front of counter.

    The barrista can easily look at the APs to see which is turned on and give out the password taped on it. I agree that one hour is a little short. With this timer deal, you can even set it for 1.5 hours. Sure, over time, a crafty customer is going to collect all the passwords. You could change them each week and relabel the masking tape on the APs.

    Seth

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