An 802.11 Router For 3G Internet Service 100
An anonymous reader writes "Possio AB has launched a Linux-based wireless access point that allows users to connect to the Internet through 3G (third-generation) mobile telephone networks, which carry Internet data at broadband speeds. According to the Swedish company, which has filed for a patent on local-to-cellular routers, the PX30 can bring broadband wireless Internet service to small sites such as cafes, temporary hotspots such as building and event sites, mobile hot-spots such as buses and limos, and hot-spots in locations without a wired backhaul alternative. It can also be used, Possio says, by mobile-only carriers wishing to offer broadband Internet service, and in data acquisition and remote management applications such as M2M (machine-to-machine) applications."
How is Routing Between Two Networks Non-Obvious (Score:5, Interesting)
Jeez, I've done this with nat under linux to my Verizon Wireless 1x phone.
Patents are out of control.
Re:How is Routing Between Two Networks Non-Obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
They're trying to reel in this specific type of routing. I don't know that it will fly, but clueless judges on the bench have been known to rule on, oh, say, taking non-portable address spaces with you like a telephone number [slashdot.org], so who knows.
Re:How is Routing Between Two Networks Non-Obvious (Score:2, Informative)
Re:How is Routing Between Two Networks Non-Obvious (Score:1, Funny)
Linux-based! but...
Out of control patents. but...
Arrrgh... do I hate them or not? Slashbot brain burning...
(not a troll -- really...)
~Dr. Weird~
Re:How is Routing Between Two Networks Non-Obvious (Score:1)
May not be prior art, but I am no expert and I thought of it. I even got it working as long as I knew a website's IP.
Re:How is Routing Between Two Networks Non-Obvious (Score:4, Interesting)
Without seeing their actual claims it's hard to know whether it should be obvious or not. Perhaps they are patenting the combination of hardware being used, rather than the idea. There are lots of legitimate existing patents that are "the application of this notion thats obvious in another field to a new domain".
The test of obviousness is an interesting one. Lots of things are obvious after the fact, the question for the patent lawyers is does that make them obvious before the fact or not.
Re:How is Routing Between Two Networks Non-Obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How is Routing Between Two Networks Non-Obvious (Score:2)
Obviousness also has the element of time: what is obvious today may not have been a year or two ago, and it is always a tricky matter. And there is the matter of everything, once understood, becomes obvious and that's a core irony that patent examiners must contend with.
Re:How is Routing Between Two Networks Non-Obvious (Score:2)
Re:How is Routing Between Two Networks Non-Obvious (Score:2)
Re:How is Routing Between Two Networks Non-Obvious (Score:2, Informative)
It took me less than 2 minutes to:
- plug the 3G PCMCIA card into my Fedora laptop
- 'dialup' (it presented as a serial modem)
- setup routing from the local LAN
- setup masquading and firewalling
- and let local users know that they could now
start browsing the internet!
prior art = http://www.rauhauser.net/ (Score:3, Interesting)
Please, please don't slashdot me, but I've been talking about this so called patented invention for some time and I've got one sitting right here. Feel free to contact me if you're a patent attorney with an axe to grind
Re:prior art = http://www.rauhauser.net/ (Score:3, Interesting)
*Sigh*
Their patent application predates my work by about a year. But its still nonsense
Let the junk patent busters loose on them
Re:prior art = http://www.rauhauser.net/ (Score:2)
Troll? I don't get it
Prior art at http://www.customconnectivity.com too (Score:1)
I Dunno (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, who needs broadband on the cell, and who's going to lug around a laptop for high speed access? What are you going to do, jerk to high quality pr0n on your local park bench?
Seriously though. High speed access may be neat for transferring large, high quality sound files, images, and even streaming video (boy, all those places that banned camera-enabled cells will love that), but I think the data / voice streams shouldn't intermingle. That way, if one gets hogged up by a lot of activity in a concentrated area, the other isn't adversly affected.
Re:I Dunno (Score:5, Insightful)
Read the article (or even the blurb). They aren't talking about a cell phone. Its more like a broadband router with 3G network support.
There are many instances where this would be helpful. For example mobile applications would be made possible by such a device. Think WiFi hotspots on trains, buses, and cars.
It would also be an alternative for persons that have no other broadband internet access available to them. Cell networks are easier and cheaper to roll out than physically wired networks, so it might give someone access to the internet that might otherwise be impossible.
Also think about all the possibilities for actual cellphones. Mix VOIP with broadband over cellphone, the right software, and voila, long distance, overseas calls for next to nothing. Maybe we could get video in addition to voice (after we figure out why we would want that)
The future of cellphone and WAN technology is bright. Try ot to be such a wet blanket.
Re:I Dunno (Score:3, Insightful)
so.. what makes you think there's no priorisations and balancing?
Re:I Dunno (Score:3, Informative)
Also, what you describe IS exactly how modern cell data works. The packet traffic is handled in a best-effort fashion using a small number of channels on the wireless infrastructure (sometimes statically allocated and sometimes dynamically adjusted). Voice calls negotiate an appropriate QoS path as part of the call setup. Congesti
Would be nice if these were useful around Japan (Score:4, Informative)
Since every existing 3G network (kddi, docomo's foma) are billed per packet/per second for each connection.
While Verizon is charging something like $90 a month for unlimited 1xEVDO in south california.
How's the situation with 3G data in Europe?
Is it all flat-rate as well?
Re:Would be nice if these were useful around Japan (Score:4, Informative)
I have spent the past 3 years traveling the United States in a RV with my wife. We are on Verizon 24 horus a day at least 20 days a month... the other 10 das a month we use WiFi.
Sprint has similar pricing ($80/month), but they require a PCMCIA card and their network is not as reliable.
Verizon is more flexible, they allow you to use a phone or PCMCIA card (Kyocera 2235 telephone car kit has a rs232 port capable of 230Kbps, works with OpenBSD/Linux/MacOSX/Win/etc.).
Re:Would be nice if these were useful around Japan (Score:1, Interesting)
at what kind of speeds?
144k+?
Not OP, but yeah,seems 144. NOT CONSISTENT... tower bandwidth is shared like a cable broadband connection. You do not have dedicated 144 between you and Verizon.
My connection is great (near tower @ work, home) but I notice high latency. BUT, that could just be my handheld (new Samsung i700 @300MHz, Wince 2002).
I'll have to try out those CDMA USB drivers for my PC and compare relative speeds. As is, I'm not seeing what I've experienced on 128/128 cable (but it's not as
Re:Would be nice if these were useful around Japan (Score:4, Informative)
In areas with Analog-only service, you won't get any data! (Which tends to be in areas that have extremely low population densities...in other words, you'll probably not spend much time in those areas.
With the exception of the above areas, just about everywhere in the US has CDMA One, which supports data rates of up to 14.4kbps. (Note, there was a 128kbps support added to the standard, but I don't think that any network supported that)
All of the major cities and highways are covered with "CDMA 2000 1xRTT" which will deliver a sustained transfer rate of about 50-80kbps depending on network congestion (burst up to 144kbps)
In San Diego & Washington, DC (with many more major cities coming online before the end of 2004), Verizon supports a standard called CDMA 1xev-do. This supports burst rates up to 2.4mbps, with sustained likely in the 300-500kbps range. (See Ars' review [arstechnica.com])
Re:Would be nice if these were useful around Japan (Score:3, Interesting)
For what it's worth I think this is awesome, patented or not (ain't no way I'm going to be sued for sticking a 3G card in my laptop and letting others share my connection). One more step towards an always-on-everywhere Internet connection.
- Chris
Re:Would be nice if these were useful around Japan (Score:1)
Here in Sweden it's all per packet charge. I personally pay about $1/Mb for my 3G data. Although I can stream 128kbit sound to my phone, those tariffs prohobits it for more proof of concept...
Re:Would be nice if these were useful around Japan (Score:1, Insightful)
you cannot use it for data.
flat-rate "data" service to download ringtones and other garbage for $60 a month doesn't sound like a sweet deal to me.
quoting the article:
Japan has been wary of offering flat rate mobile services because of the strain on the limited amount of spectrum available. Users to the new service has unlimited access to e-mail and data services available through KDDI's portal, including access to the Internet, but does not apply to the use of a handset to co
Re:Would be nice if these were useful around Japan (Score:1)
Re:Would be nice if these were useful around Japan (Score:2)
I think the idea is to find a use for 3G infrastructure that cost billions and isn't being used. 3G was expected to take off and didn't; WiFi wasn't expected to take off and did. Maybe 3G services will be popular in a few years, but in the meantime the owners can make some money by connecting WiFi hotspots to the net. Sounds like a great idea to me - some of the most attractive loca
a nice idea but come on (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:a nice idea but come on (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:a nice idea but come on (Score:4, Insightful)
but... in the future it will be useful, cell phones in the future may have the ability to stream video to a nifty little screen, or audio files, or who knows what
This is Insightful? My phone could do video and audio over the web in 2002, at three times the speed of dial-up. I live in Michigan, one of the USA, and everyone knows the USA are far behind everyone else when it comes to cellular phone technology. I'm sure people in Japan could do streaming video in 1999. Where do you live where you can't get a phone that gets streaming media over the web? Antarctica?
Re:a nice idea but come on (Score:2)
Re:a nice idea but come on (Score:1)
Re:a nice idea but come on (Score:1, Interesting)
From a technical perspective this is interesting. There's quite a bit of radio hardware integration in that box. However I don't see why I would use 3G as a backhaul. Why would you use a lower-bandwidth pipe as a backhaul? What's the point of 802.16 then?
I don't quite see how connecting
Re:a nice idea but come on (Score:2)
Dude. Who gives a rat's ass about cell phones with broadband access?
My laptop with a pcmcia card at broadband speeds that I can use almost anywhere. Yeah, that kicks ass.
Having it at 100mb/s or 1gb/s would especially kick ass.
Cellphones, they are for talking to people.
Sprint's 3G network not fully functional yet (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Sprint's 3G network not fully functional yet (Score:2)
Re:Sprint's 3G network not fully functional yet (Score:2)
Really? I consistently get 160kbps with my Sprint Treo 300 connected through a custom PDANet driver to my laptop (Windows only, sadly). There is also a program called WirelessModem for the Mac, but it's so buggy it caused kernel panics every few hours or so (grey screen of death) on my PowerBook.
Spri
well, pda here we come (Score:1, Funny)
Ridiculous (Score:4, Insightful)
How the hell is the trivial and obvious combination of widely available consumer technology patentable?
Will we need a patent license to plug a phone into a laptop, if the laptop has a Wifi card in it?
Will my zaurus w/GPRS card and built-in wifi be an infringing device?
I mean really, it's not like you need a pHD. to connect to two wireless networks at the same time on the same device.
Re:Ridiculous (Score:1)
Re:Ridiculous (Score:1)
I have a powermac with blutooth and an airport extreme card.
If you open up 'System Preferences' then 'Sharing" then 'Internet Sharing' then select sharing the 'Bluetooth' connection with the 'Airport' card, you get a DHCP wireless router over 802.11g.
I was conected to my GPRS Nokia 6600 phone to the net, and my kid in the other room was on her iBook over the AirPort card.
I thnk the patent office should contact Apple about prior art since it is standard on all powerbooks to d
Some Slashdotters probably have prior art. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have had this idea, and I am surely far from alone. There are probably people here who are handy with embedded Linux (or Windows CE, a la Microsoft's own home broadband routers) who have hacked together a similar device. With consumer-market PCMCIA cards that can handle the cellular end and mini-PCI 802.11 cards you can extract from most any home cable/dsl router, this is more of a hardware geek's weekend pleasure hack than a non-obvious, patentable invention.
Build one of these and mount it in your car, and you have Internet access for your laptop, PDA, and other gadgets when you hit the road. Run it on batteries and make a picnic basket or backpack that carries a wireless LAN wherever you go (power requirements shouldn't be huge, especially when the device is configured for use outdoors at very short ranges). The possibilities are endless. (Alas, I don't have the technical knowledge to build one myself.)
How can one say this is a new item? (Score:2, Informative)
Seattle company has similar product (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How does this all affect us? (physically) (Score:1, Funny)
Speed Vs Coverage (Score:4, Insightful)
Personally I would rather be able to use the Internet from as many locations as possible, than having a broadband conenction via 3G only in the city central.
Is 1G or 0.2G (or whatever older technology) too expensive to implement mobile Internet?
Re:Speed Vs Coverage (Score:3, Funny)
2 and 1 G cant be mobile internet (Score:4, Informative)
In 3G, your connection's speed is managed by overhead signaling and your connection will vary by the resources available (as implemented by CDMA 2000). To the layman, you may get only a basic channel of 9.6k if there is a lot of traffic. However, during periods of less activity, you'll peak up around 60-80 as an average. You may see it hit around 100k/sec, but voice traffic takes priority and will quickly knock you back down (unless you live in the sticks, or surf at 3am...after the drunks have called for their ride home).
You mention Mobile Internet, so I'm thinking you're alluding to Mobile IP. Mobile IP is only implemented in 3G, and uses Home Agent, Foreign Agents, AAA servers (authentication, billing), Packet Data Server Nodes (PDSN) and Packet Control servers (PCF). To the layperson, these are tunnels within IP, using care of addresses, to manage a network connection that is changing its point of connection. In implementation, you could fire up your laptop in NYC, and drive to Southern California without changing IP address. This way your applications don't break.
I could post a thesis on this, but I'm currently sitting in a Software Engineering class (ignoring a slide show on Java Beans) so I'm gonna cut it short here.
Re:2 and 1 G cant be mobile internet (Score:2, Informative)
My basic 2 years old motorola gets 40-60 kb/s GPRS download speeds in practice around the world. More recent EDGE equipment can get up to a couple of hundred kilobits/s in upgraded cells. A real 3G scheme should reach towards megabits/s (though real users wil
waiting for 4G (Score:2)
Japan's NTT DoCoMo is testing [3gnewsroom.com] it.
India is skipping 3G alltogether and going straight to 4G.
the reason: 3G is too little, too late. It's not completely packet-based (voice calls are still point-to-point), and it allows for only up to 300kbps. read the fine print: that's bits per second. so in the best of all cases (3am, drunks home in bed, etc), you get... 30kB/seconds. rather underwhelming.
with 4G, on the other hand, NTT DoCoMo targets 100Mbit/s for the customer.
Re:Speed Vs Coverage (Score:2)
- Chris
Prior Art (Score:2)
Better yet on the Linux system if the card is inserted if GW 1 fails for any reason GW2 activates and assumes the MAC ID of GW1 so it's nearly seamless switching to one.. minus the lower bandwidth wireless usually gets.
Re:Prior Art (Score:2)
Is this not how it is set up?
DSL ___
-----| | LAN
-----|___|-------
3G
other idea... (Score:3, Interesting)
I have absolutely no idea how this would be implemented realistically (or if it has, and I'm just an idiot), but I'd also be very impressed if there were a way to have a bridge go in the opposite direction... in other words, you'd be able to set up a miniature cellular tower that would be able to route everything through existing IP networks (through some kind of tunnel) onto the telecom carrier's voice or data network.
I know that this has sort of been discussed before [slashdot.org], but what about on a much smaller scale? This would hopefully provide a seamless way to patch up holes in a wireless coverage area in a cost-effective way...
Verizon Wireless 3G data stupidity (Score:4, Informative)
So don't use Windows update or virus definition updates (that would be an automated function). You can't use chat or newsgroups (not listed in i, ii or iii). Actually you can't use it all since "machine to machine applications" are prohibited which is pretty much what TCP/IP does. And you have to have a seperate working Internet connection anyway since you can't use this as a substitute (or a backup).
fine print (Score:1)
Re:Verizon Wireless 3G data stupidity (Score:2)
forget not a deep sleep mode (Score:1)
The problem is the processor... not the pipe (Score:3, Interesting)
The difference in speed is the difference between the 33MHz Dragonball VZ in my Treo and the 800MHz G4 in my laptop. I've tried Treo600's and will be upgrading to a 610 when it's released. Moving up from a 33MHz to a 312MHz processor will make a huge difference.
Think about it. What would broadband do for a 33MHz Pentium?
Re:The problem is the processor... not the pipe (Score:1)
Re:The problem is the processor... not the pipe (Score:1)
That's it, I ruined my own joke...
Need... coffee... now...
Get off the grid (Score:2)
the diff is to handoff from net2net (Score:4, Informative)
For a real good write up, go to IETF and read the white paper on Mobile IP. WiFi compared to MIP/3G is kinda similar to comparing oranges to limes. They're both citrus, but don't taste the same.
Re:the diff is to handoff from net2net (Score:2)
Okay, I'll do a search on IETF since you don't provide a link. Hmm, at IETF.org, a search on "mobile computing" produces [ietf.org] 3249 hits. The "Internet Engineering Task Force" is a very busy body.
I would like to know what demographic will require mobile computing on 3G in comparison to the population that will never require it. I think the citrus fruit wo
Re:the diff is to handoff from net2net (Score:2)
This is not light reading, but I spent a few weeks reading the 1000 page ( +/- 100 pages depending on version) of the RFC2002, which outlines Mobile IP. [rfc-editor.org] I've been out of this for a couple years since Sprint laid me off, moved me to a hell hole named Kansas, and decided to ignore my last 4 years of network data and
I vote for a wardriving option! (Score:2)
Oh, right, this isn't a poll...
Great! now we'll have anonymous hackers in cafes (Score:1)
Any Haxxor with a cheap mobile (e.g S55) and a SSH-client ( mobish.com and others) can now conveniently hack our web-sites!!
Whats next? Paper-mobiles preinstalled with nmap and satan?
Re:Great! now we'll have anonymous hackers in cafe (Score:1)
Device will be rolled out in Germany (Score:1)
Prices are unknown yet. They should be lower than 'regular' UMTS (whatever that'll mean) because the service is working only in the 'Homezone'.
This box&service makes it possible to cut off cables and ties to Deutsche Telekom for voice&data. An interesing proposition, if pricing is reasona
Patents in GPLed software (Score:2)
But selling a GPL-based (Linux) patent-protected product seems interesting if you look at clause 7 in the GPL [gnu.org].
So a compe
Does this mean... (Score:1)
If so, wonder what current cell phone access providers like Vodafone will think about this product?
PDANet (Score:2)