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Microsoft Bans VoIP, Rival Stores At Mobile Market
Posted by
Soulskill
on Wed May 06, 2009 07:52 AM
from the thou-shalt-have-no-other-app-stores-before-me dept.
from the thou-shalt-have-no-other-app-stores-before-me dept.
narramissic writes "Microsoft has identified 12 application types that won't be accepted at the MarketPlace for Mobile store. Among them: VoIP apps, programs that are larger than 10MB, and programs that change the default browser on a device. Overly restrictive? Maybe. But perhaps the clear set of rules (PDF) will prevent confusion similar to what's been encountered over Apple's policy for approving or rejecting applications from the App Store."
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Excuse me (Score:2, Insightful)
Excuse me for saying this, but does anybody else think this is MADNESS!!?? They are not going very far with those restricitions. Follow the way of the Zune.
Re:Excuse me (Score:5, Insightful)
I personally don't care, since you are not tied to this store to get applications for Windows Mobile. This is not Apple where you have to jailbreak the device to install software from anywhere.
Parent
Re:Excuse me (Score:5, Insightful)
The top 2 things in the prohibited list are "Applications that link to, incent users to download, or otherwise promote alternate
marketplaces" and "Applications that are or distribute alternate marketplaces".
This doesn't fill me with confidence about the future of alternatives to Microsoft's store, surely they must be envious of Apple's 30% cut of 1 billion app sales.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Wait a minute. What's a "supplied market place?" Before these goofy phones came along, I never heard of such a thing.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Wrong question?
Why would the marketplace accept a crippled device from company A when company B doesn't restrict their app store?
I mean, who does MS think they are? Apple? Do they think they have any star power?
Business types, MS's traditional cash cow, switched to Blackberries, and since Vista, people *have* gotten fired for buying Microsoft. They aren't really hip and cool. They don't appeal to kids...
Don't they realize they're the LG of the market now? They're now the crap you whine about getting at work
Re:Excuse me (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone familiar with the PlaysForSure initiative should be extremely wary of purchasing anything for these devices without a way to guarantee that they'll work after Microsoft moves on to greener pastures.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyone with any understanding of DRM at all should be wary of any service that employs DRM that depends on a server (there is some distinction between server based schemes and something like DVD style protection, the latter being someone less likely to explode).
Of course, whether than means not using it at all or simply factoring it into the purchasing decision is going to be up to the individual. The short term payoff could well be significant enough that the DRM simply isn't relevant.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Reading this I am starting to wonder how I managed to get software for my windows mobile devices all these years since I got an XDA in 2004.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Excuse me (Score:4, Insightful)
In their offense, this ruling doesn't make sense.
Apple apps don't run on Windows phones; hell, most of their own apps barely run on their phones. My Windows 5 Treo 700w is miserable.
It's true that banning VoIP makes friends with the carriers. A good alt.store some place will deliver those apps soon. Then things are out of the carrier's gouging control again, and so much the better.
Competition is cool. The Amazons of the world can actually make money from rivals, easily and handily.
Open a store, make it a cool and safe place to go, and clean up. Microsoft keeps hardware vendors in business by getting their OS and apps to run in lots of places on lots of hardware. Their UI, good or bad as it might be, is at least understood. They have a chance to be egalitarian, but instead, copy the mistakes of their rivals, instead of breaking new ground. Oh, wait.... that's what they always do-- or at least that's the perception.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Uh, no.
Your analogies don't hold water at all. I think skype on a mobile phone is great. I want dialtone, not monopoly in the same way that I want a carrier/Internet connection of some kind. I'll buy the products and services from whom I wish, and not be captive to some joker MBA's idea of a monopoly. Choice counts.
Enslaving developers to draconian rules is not only boorish, but it's ultimately harmful to the business doing it-- and consumers get wise to the BS quickly, and go elsewhere.
Say you were the #4
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It really depends on what they see as their revenue stream.
One option is to try to lock all your customers in to your vertical stack, such that you spend all your money with them. This is known as the "bundle everything with your OS" tactic. Microsoft has had some success with this.
Another option is to enable partners to drive sales of your base product. That is, you provide the base product (say OS) and encourage others to provide value to your product by producing add-ons. This could be known as the "
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm not real sure that a policy of not promoting other appstores puts them at a competitive disadvantage versus Apple, which simply refuses to support any other appstores.
Re:Excuse me (Score:5, Insightful)
That 1 billion is a misnomer.
Every time you download an update to an app, its considered a sale (and you get a $0 receipt for it).
I'm sure I've racked up hundreds of sales, but I've only bought maybe four programs.
Parent
Re:Excuse me (Score:4, Informative)
Where are you getting this information? I've never seen a bill for an app update (even a $0 bill) and I've not seen any mention of this anywhere else.
The only thing I've seen that's remotely close is comparisons of the various developer programs, for a developer on Symbian a new app and an update to an existing app are priced/processed the same. However, that has nothing to do with apps sold.
Parent
Re:Excuse me (Score:5, Insightful)
Could we maybe wait until such restrictions are actually, you know, announced, before bashing MS for them?
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
I'm already on the iFork mailing list for pre-order updates!
Re:Excuse me (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Excuse me (Score:5, Funny)
Who's to say the next IPhone won't stab users in the face with a fork?
And when it does, you can bet that it will be touted as an advantage :)
"It doesn't matter that other phones stabbed users in the face with a fork, Apple were the first ones to integrate the fork properly with your face".
And when the next version after that removes the fork-stabbing, there'll be media hype and praise [slashdot.org] about that too.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
(Score:2, Troll)
Awesome.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Madness???!?!?!
THIS
IS
REDMOND!
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Only the restriction on replacing the SMS/MMS interface seems braindamaged to me. You can likely already configure a winmo phone to send those messages via TCP. If I had unlimited internet on my cellphone (RAZR V3i) I could do this, and send SMS and MMS for free. (I don't...)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly. I can't see anything in there that would stop porn, or the baby-shaking app, or anything else that could be controversial or offensive. The first time someone tries to submit an app like that, Microsoft is going to have to accept it, and deal with the PR firestorm, or reject it, and deal with the PR firestorm. :-P
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a list of application types that will be rejected. I think it's safe to assume there will also be a list of application content that will be rejected, which will cover the sort of things you mention.
So? (Score:2, Interesting)
We're up in arms because they don't want you using other companies products on their stuff?
This seems like a fairly normal corporate model: why give other companies a chance to wow your consumer base?
Meanwhile, Apple's latest evil is barring Trent Reznor from using his music in an app when they sell the uncensored version of his music on itunes. I think Apple is winning the 'my store is more evil' award for now.
Re:So? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:So? (Score:5, Insightful)
no?
You already purchased Windows, one way or another (unless you're a pirate - ARRR!!!!!), so you can put whatever the heck you want on there.
The Windows Marketplace is a -store-. You don't own it. Why exactly should they have to -sell- (or offer) another company's software - especially if it's competing software?
Don't like it? Go to Handango.com or pocketgear.com or any of dozens of other stores.
Microsoft isn't stopping anybody from installing competing 'market place'-type software; they just don't want to offer/sell it through their own market place. Sounds normal to me.
Parent
!Overly restrictive (Score:4, Informative)
Anyway, can't you just install unofficial apps (not from the store) if you want to bypass these restrictions? Any sort of software protection preventing this will likely be broken in short order...
Cellular telephony pricing... (Score:2)
These restrictions don't seem excessive to me, merely the [...] usual price fixing
Price fixing. Not excessive. Right...
I'm shocked by the mobile telephony prices in the US: $0.25 per text message. What The Fuck??
I get 50 messages for free every month (and 50 minutes of calls) for a monthly fee of nothing, and $0.032 per text after the first 50.
That's in the socialist haven that is Denmark, where income is most evenly distributed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality#cite_note-0 -- UN Gini, second most equal by CIA Gini, more equal than the US by every metr
Re:!Overly restrictive (Score:4, Insightful)
What do you mean unofficial.. there is no such thing in the WinMo world. Anyone can create and distribute apps for WinMo devices, in any way they please.
The only thing that the Windows Market place is allowing for is the ability for developers to create applications that can be sold through a 1 stop shopping space directly on the phone.
there is nothing stopping users from buying apps from developer websites, handango, or whatever other distribution method is out there, and installing via activesync. These are still official applications.
As for the VOIP thing, well thats to appease the carriers. And no, MS does not have to allow applications that will point to competing market place applications. Thats like Walmart selling you a coupon that points to best buy to buy a piece of software...
I read the rules a few days ago, I do not see anything wrong with them. As someone else pointed out, if you don't like those rules, go elsewhere, thats the advantage of WinMo, unlike Apple where you have to jailbreak if you want to do anything fun
disclaimer, I have an iphone.. but I also have half a dozen winmo phones too.
Parent
Google to the rescue! (Score:2, Funny)
dialers (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I think it might be allowed, the wording isn't all that clear about it (so much for the question of clarity!). It prohibits apps that "replace, remove or modify the default dialer". Does this include alternate dialers that peacefully coexist with the default one? That depends how you interpret the word 'replace'.
Re: (Score:2)
That was my interpretation as well. An app can duplicate functionality (alternate dialers, browsers, etc.) but not overwrite the existing MS-provided apps or, in the install process, make itself the default behavior for certain actions.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But the beauty of windows mobile is that you do not have to go through an app store, installing apps on your own does not void the warrenty.
This is just guidelines for what MS will allow in the store, and it makes sense that they would not like to advertise competing products.
Re: (Score:2)
There are other dialer apps you can install. You don't need the App Store for that.
And there are WinMo phones with actual buttons.
Re: (Score:2)
VOIP is NOT banned (Score:5, Informative)
Ignore the sensationalist headline, Microsoft's VOIP policy is actually the same as Apple's. VOIP is prohibited when it's over the mobile carrier's network, but it's allowed if it's not going over the mobile network.
This means the an app that only connects over wifi, like Skype for the iPhone, would be fine.
Re: (Score:2)
Skype for Windows Mobile works fine over UMTS.
Re: (Score:2)
Or you know...you could just go install Skype yourself.
Resistance is Futile... (Score:3, Interesting)
Windows® Marketplace for Mobile
Prohibited Application Types:
1. Applications that are or distribute alternate marketplaces for content types (applications,
games, themes etc.) that are sold or otherwise distributed through Windows® Marketplace for
Mobile.
2. Applications that link to, incent users to download, or otherwise promote alternate
marketplaces for content types that are sold or otherwise distributed through Windows
Marketplace for Mobile.
3. Applications that promote or link users to a website, or contain functionality within the
application itself, which encourages or requires the user to purchase or pay to upgrade the
application outside of Windows® Marketplace for Mobile.
4. Applications that enable VoIP (Voice over IP) services over a mobile operator network.
5. Applications that sell, link to, or otherwise promote mobile voice plans.
6. Applications that display advertising that does not meet the Microsoft Advertising Creative
Acceptance Policy Guide http://advertising.microsoft.com/creative-specs.
7. Applications that replace, remove or modify the default dialer, SMS, or MMS interface.
8. Applications that change the default browser, search client, or media player on the device.
9. Applications with an OTA (over the air) download >10 MB.
10. Applications that run code outside Microsoft runtimes (native, managed, and widgets)
11. Applications that publish a userâ(TM)s location information to any other person without first having
received the userâ(TM)s express permission (opt-in) to do so, and that do not provide the user a
means of opting out of having their location information published.
12. Applications that publish a userâ(TM)s data from their mobile device to any other person without first
having received the userâ(TM)s express permission (opt-in) to do so, and that do not provide the user
a means of opting out of having their data published. A âoeuserâ(TM)s dataâ includes, without limit,
contacts, photos, SMS or other text communication, browsing history, location information, and
other data either stored on the mobile device or stored in the âoecloudâ but accessible from the
mobile device
Microsoft reserves the right to update these policies as needed to protect the Windows® Marketplace
for Mobile service or the users of the service
Re:Resistance is Futile... (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows® Marketplace for Mobile
Prohibited Application Types:
1. Applications that... etc
Basically 'You can't sell stuff in our store which directly competes with the stuff we sell in our store?'
That sounds like a perfectly reasonable policy for a store owner to have.
That only becomes a problem when you have a monopoly. In this case, Microsoft don't. They don't across Platforms because of Apple, Palm, Android, and they don't within their own platform, because you can go elsewhere for apps (unlike with Apple!)
Parent
Resistance is Futile? (Score:4, Insightful)
1-3 make good business sense
4,5,7,9 are probably rules pushed by the provider
7,8,10 protect tech support
11,12 are to protect the consumer
6 is probably just a loophole to make sure they can get around any creative ideas that would have been intended to fall under 1-3 but might not be covered.
Of course if you are unhappy with these rules maybe you could return to the open and free policies of buying apps for your iPhone...
Parent
MS sells out (Score:5, Funny)
Not interested (Score:2)
Apple List Shorter (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
This isn't about devices, this is about an App Store. If I understand correctly, you can install whatever you want on MS devices, you just can't get everything from the app store. From Apple, you can't install anything on the device you purchase from them without their permission.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, the fact that you spent the time to figure out how to do custom ROMs for phones clearly indicates that you are more intelligent than the other 99.999% of the human population. We are all very impressed.