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Microsoft Tag, Smartphone-Scannable Barcodes
Posted by
kdawson
on Tue Jan 13, 2009 05:30 AM
from the cue-cat-lives dept.
from the cue-cat-lives dept.
dhavleak writes "Microsoft Research has come up with Microsoft Tag: '...just aim your camera phone at a Tag and instantly access mobile content, videos, music, contact information, maps, social networks, promotions, and more. Nothing to type, no browsers to launch!' Device support is fairly extensive (iPhone, WinMo, BlackBerry and more), and tag scanning appears to work quickly and reliably from different distances and angles. Long Zheng has an overview on his site. The Tag is similar to a barcode, but has obvious visual differences — colored vs. black and white, and triangles vs. squares or lines. The technology looks interesting, but will it get the adoption necessary to be successful? What applications do you see for such technology?"
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Nokia did that already (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Nokia had it for ages? Heck the CueCat [cuecat.com] had it some time ago. Seriously, big deal.
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Re:Nokia did that already (Score:4, Informative)
Similar but not the same - the combination of color/shapes seems to make the pattern recognition for this very reliable and quick. If you have a smartphone give it a shot and you'll see what I mean. The code in your link is a QR code -- scanning one of those is usually hit-or-miss (and usually more miss than hit).
Another key difference - a QR code stores the data in the code itself, limiting what you can do with it. These Tags are just a GUID or something like it. The scanning app on your phone will send that number to a service (MS hosted -- that's the monetization I guess). The service responds with the data - which could be a message, URL, vCard, or phone number.
I can see a bunch of useful applications for stuff like this:
- Flight Arrival/Departure Info: tags can be posted at easily visible locations around the airport with a sign "scan here for arrival/departure info".
- Business Cards: You could print a tag (with your vCard associated with it) on your business card. Now for a business contact to get your contact info, all they have to do is scan the tag. No fiddling with data entry on a tiny-ass qwerty to enter a name, phone number, etc.
Parent
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Forgot to mention: Easiest way to install it is to point your phone to http://gettag.mobi/ [gettag.mobi]
To give it a whirl, scan any of the tags in this article [istartedsomething.com] (same as the main story link).
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Well I gave it a try on my HTC S730 [htc.com] because I have nothing else to do at work. The camera is a pretty shitty 2 megapixel with no autofocus, but it seems to work quite well. The tags are 15mm across once printed and are reliably detected from about 15cm away in rather average lighting (diffuse sunlight, the paper is in the shadow behind some equipment). Doesn't have to be straight down either, something like 45 degrees usually works fine too. Oh, scanning them from the monitor works too, but I thought that w
Denso-Wave (successfully) did that already (Score:3, Informative)
Frankly, the thing I see killing this one that it relies on a central server. Man-in-the-middle anyone?
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The advantage of keeping the info inside the code is you are not dependant on a serviceprovider to interpret the code. That's maybe a key feature here when involving MS (and Beetagg an a few more).
Many services uses a subscription based system where a 2D-code, only has a function as long as the subscription beeing paid.
There are counter arguments that Microsoft would raise against these kinds of objections.
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Many services uses a subscription based system where a 2D-code, only has a function as long as the subscription beeing paid. Guess what system MS in using? Real info or interpreted/serverbased?
You make it sound like a really damning accusation.. I'm still trying to figure out what the problem is..
Say Epic decides to put a Microsoft Tag on the box of Gears of War 3. On scanning it, you get directed to a website with your gamer stats for GoW3. Epic created a tag and associated their data (the URL of their site) with it, and paid Microsoft some fee for the service. You scanned it, got sent to their site, didn't pay anybody anything. I don't understand why you would have a problem with that.
In t
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Oh god, thank you. I was thinking either someone has to point out how this has been done at least a couple times or my head was going to explode. Especially with this being slashdot.
I wasn't thinking Nokia, exactly, though. I was actually thinking about my Palm Treo 700w (yeah, with Windows Mobile), where the majority of the applications I used were downloaded with a similar method. The only thing I don't recall ever using is the colored barcodes, but I can't say that gets me the least bit excited about thi
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QR code? (Score:5, Informative)
sounds like QR Code [wikipedia.org] which is widely used in Japan (it's what the CueCat [wikipedia.org] couldn't do in the states).
Microsoft...always trying to re-invent the wheel and try to pass it on as a new invention.
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It's also used here in Sweden by at least one major newspaper.
So yes, they're catching on a trend here. It can be used to cram more content into a limited space. Good if a company is trying to cut costs by not making thicker newspapers. Annoying if you don't want to context switch from reading a newspaper at your leisure, and having to start browsing on a tiny mobile phone. :-p
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I'd like to see them on more advertisements. If I see an advert I'm interested in I often take a photo of the URL with my phone to remind myself. If QR codes were used that would be better.
But, I see most adverts while I'm on foot or seated: on the train, while walking in the street, on a bus, or an escalator. Generally I have the chance to stop and take a photo. If you only ever drive past advertisements this won't be very useful.
Big difference (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Big difference (Score:5, Informative)
Well, there's obviously tradeoffs associated:
A QR code stores the data in the tag itself so (AFAIK) it can have variable size. It's black and white and the shapes are smaller. So the pattern recognition can be harder, might not work well with low resolution cameras, and there are practical limits on how much information you can encode into the tag.
Microsoft tag's strength is pattern recognition. It looks to me like the tag has been designed with low-res cameras, variable distances and light conditions in mind. Scanning has been working for me from all kinds of distances and screen angles, and it's been super-quick.
To achieve this it looks like MS had to make the tag data a fixed length and use the data essentially as an index number. Sure, you gotta go through their service, but well, they're providing a service (duh).. They've announced that the tag scanning app, and the act of scanning a tag will always be free services. Creating a tag is free right now while the service is in beta, but I'm sure they'll start charging a fee at some point. If/when that happens, an entity interested in creating a tag simply needs to weigh the cost/benefit and decide if it's worth it.
About MS having your data -- well, for example if you're in an airport and you see a tag that says "scan here for arrival/departure info" -- you scan it, it takes you to a page with flight info. How's that different from say, doing a search query and reaching the same website? Ultimately, the person/entity creating the tag will link the data (URL, vCard, whatever) to it. If they're not comfortable with this data residing on an MS server, why would they create the tag in the first place? You, as the consumer, the person scanning the tag, aren't uploading your data on MS's server.
Parent
Real World Hyperlinks (Score:3, Insightful)
On the other hand, if I go to Delta's website to see my flight information, only Delta really knows I did so - and may not know it's me specifically if I'm not required to log in. In this case, though, Microsoft (or other service provider) knows I 'went to Delta's website' - or whatever else the tag-shortcut did for me.
On the whole, I think that the ability to have real-world hyperlinks (because, face it, that's what they are) is really valuable. On the other hand, I don't think that it needs to be a moneti
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Why I think they are so popular is that japanese (kanji/hiragana/katakana ) is hard to type on a mobile phone.
With QR codes you just take a picture and your phone goes to the website.
Microsoft Tags don't sound that different except you have to use Microsoft to access the info.
Hey everybody lets to it microsofts way (Score:2)
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It only seemed to do facebook so, uhm, no :D
But there may be others which are better, QR code like someone else suggested [slashdot.org] is actually mentioned in TFA but it stored the information in the code, so it doesn't link you to the information and therefor it doesn't do the same thing as Microsofts one do, although it could obviously store an URL to, it's not just limited to that purpose like Microsofts is.
I assume there may be others which is more centered around URLs.
Not a new idea in any case, and the color one
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Re:Hey everybody lets to it microsofts way (Score:5, Insightful)
Not a new idea in any case, and the color one looks like shit, even though they can store more bits.
Now that I think about it, wouldn't QR Code have a HUGE advantage in some print advertising because it's black and white vs. color? I mean, I know that Tag appears to fit into a 4 color process, but it just seems like a 1 color process would be more advantageous... or am I completely off base here?
Parent
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The funny thing is that neither of them are worth my or anyone else time if they aren't THE ONE METHOD to use.
What good is 10 different 2D codes? It's not like people will get lots of readers or be happy trying to photo things just to notice nothing happens all the fucking time.
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The funny thing is that neither of them are worth my or anyone else time if they aren't THE ONE METHOD to use.
A lot of bar code readers can recognise and interpret multiple codes. Mow MS will probably try to limit this, but a well recognised barcode is probably quite useful even if it is not the one and only
Applications (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmmm...adverts/spam would be the main application I'd imagine. Also a way to get someone to a URL that they cannot check before hand as the symbol is only machine readable. This looks like a great way to get people to exploit pages.
Tempting!
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Quick, patent a laser pointer that projects the barcode of goatse.cx
Finns did it already (Score:3, Informative)
As so many digital-age inventions, this has been done in Finland ages ago. :) There's even a company whose business is built around it: http://www.upc.fi/en/upcode/ [www.upc.fi]
We've been here before (Score:4, Informative)
QR codes [wikipedia.org] have been doing exactly the same thing for a while now.
And to be honest, I really can't see either catching on... The general public are constantly getting more familiar with the web, and getting more comfortable with finding their own favourite 'trusted' sources of information. Even if Microsoft does somehow convince enough manufacturers to start adding codes to their packaging, are people really going to jump at the chance to instantly look up a load of information on that particular television/cosmetic/breakfast cereal on some arbitrary MS website? Because that's all this really amounts to... a link. More info here [techcrunch.com].
QR codes are ubiquitous in Japan (Score:2)
And to be honest, I really can't see either catching on...
I don't know about "catching on" in the sense of people actually using them (I don't), but they're incredibly common in Japan, and have been for the last few years. Advertisements have them, magazines have them, McDonald's hamburger wrappers have them [calorielab.com]... Granted, it could all be a mass delusion of marketroids, but I doubt so many companies would go to the effort of putting the codes on--and continuing to put them on year after year--unless there was feedback saying it was effective.
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Tail wagging the dog? Very unlikely.
QR code is an open standard. They can be used freely, in other words.
The popularity of QR codes in Japan is at least partly due to their ability to store Japanese text which is very difficult to type in on mobile handsets.
Server management (Score:2, Interesting)
I mean, imagine - blip that server in the corner there, and in my hand I now have everything I need to know about it - configuration, downtime constraints, owners, where it's plugged into, etc.
Also, supermarkets - being able to do 'extended show info' on a product, based on personal preferences. Allergy information is the most useful one, but even things like rec
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Would be sweet with wikipedia connection at various locations, museums, .. to. Though one can always search for it oneself to, if one think about it.
Not a chance... (Score:2)
Walmart can't convince suppliers to use RFID without resorting to blackmail and MS is trying for world use of a new label just for fun?
Good luck...
payload-in-code versus payload-on-server (Score:3, Insightful)
With a payload-on-server code, the thing in the code isn't meaningful, even in to a machine, unless the WHOLE chain is working -- internet connection, server, the whole nine yards.
QRcode just seems, I dunno, more "honest."
Microsoft reinvents again (Score:5, Funny)
Another wonderful "invention" from Microsoft (Score:2)
64-bit proprietary hashing? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Yup, seems like a garbage idea to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_Code [wikipedia.org]
Can hold a a couple of kilobytes and have been around for over a decade and are in use everywhere in Japan.
You can go to a website and create one which contains anything you like, i.e your business card details, in a standard format, a url, telephone number, etc.
Reinventing the wheel is profitable (Score:4, Insightful)
Free 2D barcodes (Score:2)
This is ODF vs OOXML all over again except that this time there is no open format available as an alternative.
There are plenty of Free two-dimensional barcodes. Data Matrix is old enough that its patent has expired, and QR Code, MaxiCode, and Aztec Code are permissively licensed. But the advantage of Microsoft's code, which uses color to improve density and looks up data on a server, is that it can be decoded more reliably even from a cheap cell phone camera.
Problem with these tags (Score:2)
is that they are so g****** ugly to look at. Especially on a large sign.
It's just another way to send you to to msn.com (Score:2)
Barf.
Where's the beef... I mean patent? Oh, look... (Score:3, Interesting)
OK, where's the submarine patent?
Oh, they're playing silly games even before we get that far...
Let's see... the second link has a nice deceptive picture of the two technologies not to scale, but printed against each other so it looks like the color coded one is smaller. Then there's an actual scale comparison, but the Microsoft one is only an encoded link, so it contains less data than the tags it's compared with. There's no reason you can't swipe your iPhone over a UPC and look it up online (I've done that with my cue-cat).
And of course "A nice side-effect of this is also the ability for publishers to gather reporting data on how many times it was seen." Nice. Right. Plus, Microsoft gets that data as well. And of course it's got all the downsides of any cloud technology... if the server's down or you're not online you're stuck.
Get the Zombie crew together (Score:2)
We have to find Hollerith's grave and shove a stake through his heart.
Serves no use; do not use. QR remain best choice. (Score:3, Interesting)
Visually I think the garish colors of these microsoft codes are going to be hard to incorporate in many graphics designs. QR codes may look busy but given their longtime adoption in Japan they have become iconic and accepted in many contexts. At least QR codes are monochrome - goes with pretty near everything.
It is true that huge binary QR payloads makes for big tags, but that's also a rare application. QR codes are more often used for simply encoding URLs and email addresses, which is fine - achieves what these microsoft tags do, in roughly the same space, while remaining independent on any sole service provider acting as gate keeper for delivering the rereferenced payload, and the tag can be printed in monochrome on darn near everything.
When QR encoded URLs reference server-hosted payloads, the user has the power to choose how and on which terms the client technology parses and retrieves the referenced payload. The QR parser can for example decode a human-readable URL which can be manually transcribed to any web browser.
Aside from these observations, I think Microsoft tags would be almost acceptable if part of the encoded tag data was a URL for the payload decoding service, so as to permit non-microsoft entities to occupy the gatekeeper position. But overall, the net impression is that the Microsoft Tag is too proprietary, not robust enough, and of too little use to be considered a reasonable alternative to QR codes or other forms of payload-in-the-code tags.
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Yeah, that seems really secure, because it's so hard to copy images on paper!
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Because if they are all the same they would be easy to copy? And if they are different it would still be quite easy to take someone else just like with a key or whatever, so not much of an added security measurement.