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Windows Mobile 7 Phone Release Delayed Again
Posted by
timothy
on Sat Sep 27, 2008 03:34 PM
from the many-thousands-will-die-without-seeing-it dept.
from the many-thousands-will-die-without-seeing-it dept.
jcoventry writes "Microsoft is delaying Windows Mobile 7, and it is thought new phones with the operating system are unlikely to reach the market before 2010. Microsoft partners who had expected to have a final release in their hands by early 2009 have been told that it won't be ready until the second half of 2009. Partners include companies like Verizon, Motorola and Samsung, all of which plan new phones that include the Mobile Windows 7 OS. Windows Mobile 7 is expected to have features like gesture recognition and speech input."
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Submission: Windows Mobile 7 phone release delayed again by Anonymous Coward
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Android (Score:4, Insightful)
Welp, there's always android for now.
moving hardware (Score:2)
er, won't the hardware be looking crappy with that kind of delay? The top end phones seem to change markedly each year.
Or will the target hardware change fast enough that microsoft have to delay again while they get the OS working 'properly'? Rinse, repeat.
Too slow (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too slow (Score:5, Informative)
I was so glad to get rid of my Windows Mobile phone. I've been just using a cheap phone until I can see if there were be anything decent from Android.
It's a shame Apple are acting like a bunch of nazis about iphone development or I might consider their over priced phone.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Imo, version 5 and 6 were both old by their release. Windows mobile has a lot of nice features but the interface is boring and lacking and the OS is buggy.
You ain't kidding. Its resemblance to desktop Windows is striking though... you have to reboot your phone every few days or else everything starts running slowly, rendering halfway-drawn dialog boxes on the screen, and eventually crashing. And talk about poor integration... every app that has you enter an email, phone number, or contact name does it differently. Some use auto-complete, and others don't. It's just a mess and I can't wait for Android to come out.
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Re:Too slow (Score:4, Informative)
My favourite is when it loses its stylus calibration. It's so random. I can through a period of weeks or months where it loses its calibration any time it goes into power saving mode. But then it can go months without it doing that and I've not changed my usage habits. It's almost like they've built that into that system to screw with people.
That's actually a hardware issue. Really, touch screens are a simple matter of variable resistance across two circuits. All WM knows is the min ohms and max ohms for the X and Y axes. Apply Occam's Razor. Do you really think WM is "forgetting" four simple integers? Or do you think that maybe the resistance of the touch screen hardware on some phones might be flaky? Add in the fact that there are plenty of people whose WM phones don't lose stylus calibration, and the answer seems pretty obvious to me.
Parent
Re:Too slow (Score:5, Funny)
Well, it is Microsoft we're talking about.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Don't get me wrong I believe that hardware can be a problem sometimes but I've seen better performance from old touch screen catalogues in Sears from the 80s.
Re: non-compatible! (Score:2)
Except it "sorta" forgot to completely copy the Windows paradigm. I am angling to skip laptops and use things like SuperPhones as ultramobile computing centers, with "commodity" hardware externals like keyboards, monitors.
I still can't believe that a 400-some Mhz machine can't run something like a stripped Windows2000. Lasy I understood you can't even easily use the classical C:\ tree model & install stuff as if it were an OldSchool comp.
Re:Too slow (Score:4, Funny)
Microsoft is just too slow and clumsy nowadays. Mobile Windows 7 may already be old at the time it hit's the market.
Well, at least they'll be keeping up with the desktop version of Windows...
Parent
Re:Windows7!!! (Score:2)
Please don't be right.
I might even send you a cake upon being reminded of this.
"Unified Windows Rollout! Windows Seven Desktop. Windows Seven Mobile. Windows Seven. It's a Revelation".
gestures (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm no iPhone fanboy but it seems ironic that after 6 iterations of Windows Mobile, Microsoft still hasn't released an update to handle gestures.
iPhone is way ahead of the game in this area, and I'm sure Apple intend to exploit this position agressively.
Microsoft must be kicking themselves for resting up during the last couple of revisions, whilst Apple takes away significant market share and "wow factor".
p.s i don't own an iPhone :D
Re: (Score:2)
RIM is a lot cheaper these days :)
Re:gestures (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm no iPhone fanboy but it seems ironic that after 6 iterations of Windows Mobile, Microsoft still hasn't released an update to handle gestures.
Before version 4, WinCE (which is the core of Windows Mobile) was unusable garbage. In version 4 it was upgraded to "terrible" (as an OS), and the source code became available to developers. Version 5 is the first version that didn't entirely blow (although I quit a job using WinCE for one using specifically not WinCE because it is still a shitty OS).
WinCE is not inherited from any of the other Windows lines, it doesn't share any code with them at the lower levels. The problem is that WinCE bolts the horrid Win32 API on top of this OS. And then MFC. And then dotnet. And it still retains much of the desktop+mouse user model. Every time I see that mouse arrow on a retail WinCE device it makes me cringe. For an embedded device, this makes no sense. Microsoft was more interested in maintaining compatibility with its desktop environment than with creating an interface that is logical for an embedded device.
Device manufacturers have given MS a kick in a pants. They told them that what is currently being produced is inadequate. After the iPhone came out, MS released WinCE 6, which is the same old stuff (ooh, now a process can use 64 megs of RAM instead of 32) with more dotnet. They came out with yesterday's product. HTC and Samsung had to revamp the UI totally to ship a competitive phone. Can you imagine the level of hackery that went into this? Will MS catch up? Up until now there was no competition to WinCE (Linux required too much work, Symbian was, well, Symbian, and iPhone OS is not available to anyone). But with Android, handset developers have a real alternative OS (yes, I know it's Linux, but it's a complete OS). If Google hadn't screwed up Android by tying it in so much to Google services, I would say MS is too late. As it is, we'll see.
Parent
Re:gestures (Score:4, Informative)
Windows Mobile, Microsoft still hasn't released an update to handle gestures.
Windows Mobile has supported gestures for a long time. The Summary is misleading, as it is 'Gesture Navigation' that was to be expanded in Windows Mobile 7.
Gestures on Windows Mobile are almost as old as Pen Gestures introduced back in the Tablet PC in 2002.
Sad that people in the mainstream don't have any idea where all this comes from and how Apple did better at marketing than innovating anything. Most of us have been suckered by Apple, not helped by them.
Go look up multi-touch gesturing which comes from both MS Tablet (yes there were multi-touch tablets back in 2002 even), MS Research and demostrations from the TED conference about 5 years ago. Apple copied the TED expansion of the demostrated concepts idea for idea, even using the 'made up' gestures for the conference that were only to be 'examples'. -Google the TED Video.)
Another misleading item from the summarty is voice input, as Windows Mobile has had voice recognition dialing for a long time, something the iPhone still seriously lacks except from 3rd party add-ons. And sadly, something even free phones from Walmart can do that make the iPhone look sad. (Bluetooth headset users know this all too well.)
Parent
Recognition (Score:5, Funny)
by 2010 (Score:2, Interesting)
Apple, Google and RIM will be that much farther down the road.
Windows Mobile is dead.
Screw gesture recognition... (Score:2, Interesting)
Screw gesture recognition, I just want MS to fix the crappiness that is the current-gen Windows Mobile OS and turn it into something that is usable.
On my HTC Apache (aka XV6700) which I personally upgraded to W.M.6 from the W.M.5 that came with it, and I still am sometimes not even able to answer a call; no matter how many times I try it will just register as missed. Sometimes this doesn't happen, but the call goes directly to speakerphone. That is lovely for the times when Mom calls and promptly does the
To paraphrase... (Score:2)
I don't need fancy stuff like gesture recognition, I just want my phone to work the way it's supposed to. Hopefully Android can prove itself early on and I can switch to an HTC Dream.
As someone else once said, there is another [apple.com].
I wouldn't mention the iPhone since obviously you don't own one at this point for a reason, but I thought I'd point out that coming from Windows Mobile you're going to have a much better Windows integration experience with the iPhone than with Android as it ships today, and possibly f
Re: (Score:2)
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Upgrading the OS is not recommended unless you are using an image supplied by the phone manufacturer. I don't think HTC supply upgrades.
Try downgrading back to the WM5 that shipped with your phone and you might find it works more reliably.
Not the full story (Score:5, Informative)
The article uses very unclear wording in that part, so I thought I'd clarify.
Microsoft will release updated browser in their 6.2 update. The good news is it can render Flash and AJAX and so on because it's based on the rendering engine of the desktop Internet Explorer browser. The bad news: it's based on the desktop version of *IE6*.
Re: (Score:2)
The article uses very unclear wording in that part, so I thought I'd clarify.
Microsoft will release updated browser in their 6.2 update. The good news is it can render Flash and AJAX and so on because it's based on the rendering engine of the desktop Internet Explorer browser. The bad news: it's based on the desktop version of *IE6*.
I was very dismayed to read that also. I currently have a Windows Mobile 6 phone (AT&T 8525) and its current web browser is just terrible (based on IE 4 from what I understand). I had heard that the next version of Pocket IE would finally enter this century and naturally figured it would have the IE7 rendering engine at least.
I'll never again buy a Windows Mobile phone. Microsoft is just too big and clumsy to continue innovating their products. It's ridiculous that I have to look for third-party softwar
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The bad news: it's based on the desktop version of *IE6*.
For God's sake, Microsoft! Stop defiling the world with this unholy abomination! Would somebody think of the children who grow up to become web designers and whose souls are going to be destroyed and their life energy drained away by sinister forces while they unfruitfully struggle to fix their layouts deformed beyond recognition by the filthy bowels of IE6? Now we have ultimate proof that Microsoft is Satan incarnate.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh well, I suppose on the plus side there will probably only be about 3 people using Windows Mobile 6.2
Falling behind... (Score:2, Interesting)
Wow, Microsoft is really falling behind here.
Google has just released a prototype Android phone for review and Apple is still going strong with the iPhone.
I hope Google is able to push their OS hard enough to knock MS right out of the phone market. The last thing I want is a phone running a proprietary OS that is impossible to program for...
I think the best thing about the Android compared to other phone OS's is the open development. It can be programmed easily using well known and widely used languages, un
Re:Falling behind... (Score:5, Informative)
It can be programmed easily using well known and widely used language
Fixed - I don't think any JVM based languages other than Java are anywhere near widely used, and Android has no provisions to execute "bare metal" code. I may be a good thing after all, because it ensures compatibility of all Android apps with all Android phones despite different hardware.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That depends on how you define matters. Ruby is fairly widely used and has a JVM-based implementation that is less widely used. Ditto Python/Jython. At the moment, though, I suspect neither will run on Dalvik — any interpreted language that generates bytecode on the fly for JIT would need to generate Dalvik bytecode.
That's probably not strictly true — again
Objective C is easily understood (Score:2)
I think the best thing about the Android compared to other phone OS's is the open development. It can be programmed easily using well known and widely used languages, unlike the iPhone that requires Objective-C!
Having done a lot of Java, and now a lot of Objective-C (for the iPhone) I can say that's not really true.
Objective-C the language does not take long to pick up if you've used another modern language - Java is an especially good starting point.
From there, both platforms require a lot of work to under
Re:Falling behind... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you know C and it takes you longer than twenty-four hours to become familiar enough with Objective-C to program an iPhone then you don't know C.
Objective-C is an extension to C, not some completely new language.
Parent
Raise your hand.. (Score:2)
..if you are surprised by this.
It seems today to be almost common practice to announce release dates you never intend to keep. That way your product appears better than the competition, except that it won't be available until technological development has allowed to competition to equal it.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yawn... MS isn't in the running on this one (Score:5, Interesting)
The fight will be between Google and the Open Source community in one corner, Apple and its traditional strength in human factors in the second corner, and the Koreans with their history of innovative phone products in the third corner. (I was in Seoul a year ago and I never saw so many different kinds of weird cell phone gadgets :-)
Although I'm pretty much an Apple fanboy (based on how much better their products work -for me- versus the competition), I'm very excited to see competition based on real innovation, rather than on the Microsoft Monopoly's ability to seize and lock up the competition.
I have not bought a smartphone (although I was a pretty early dedicated Palm user), and I'm waiting to see how the iPhone and Android mature before jumping in. The Crackberry -never- had any appeal for me (I had to fight one off back in 2002, the project I was working on was an early adopter.) As someone who types pretty well, the thumb keyboard has no appeal to me whatsoever. Pen-based inputs (e.g. Palm Graffiti, but not Graffiti 2 which was worse...) work for me on a handheld.
But a note to Verizon: If you want to continue to be my carrier, then you'll have to look way beyond your current handset offerings and their developers, and your approach to business/marketing. The other carriers are catching up in network quality, and the traditional "grab the customer and screw him for all he's worth" approach of the big carriers is failing in the face of the Brave New World the iPhone has helped create and that Android has legitimized.
dave
Re: (Score:2)
The fight will be between Google and the Open Source community in one corner, Apple and its traditional strength in human factors in the second corner, and the Koreans with their history of innovative phone products in the third corner. (I was in Seoul a year ago and I never saw so many different kinds of weird cell phone gadgets :-)
Although I'm pretty much an Apple fanboy (based on how much better their products work -for me- versus the competition), I'm very excited to see competition based on real innovation, rather than on the Microsoft Monopoly's ability to seize and lock up the competition.
I have not bought a smartphone (although I was a pretty early dedicated Palm user), and I'm waiting to see how the iPhone and Android mature before jumping in. The Crackberry -never- had any appeal for me (I had to fight one off back in 2002, the project I was working on was an early adopter.) As someone who types pretty well, the thumb keyboard has no appeal to me whatsoever. Pen-based inputs (e.g. Palm Graffiti, but not Graffiti 2 which was worse...) work for me on a handheld.
But a note to Verizon: If you want to continue to be my carrier, then you'll have to look way beyond your current handset offerings and their developers, and your approach to business/marketing. The other carriers are catching up in network quality, and the traditional "grab the customer and screw him for all he's worth" approach of the big carriers is failing in the face of the Brave New World the iPhone has helped create and that Android has legitimized.
dave
While you may be right in terms of the market, if you just want the best phone with the most flexibility and software, it's definitely going to be on WM6.x for the forseeable future, as long as you're willing to mod your phone and you get a good one, like an HTC Touch Diamond, Pro, or HD.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm very much willing to wait for something with substantially more appeal than either a Windows-for-handhelds device or the current RIM offerings. I feel no compelling reason to compromise just to get a new smartphone today...
dave
If you're going there, the iPhone is more flexibil (Score:3, Insightful)
While you may be right in terms of the market, if you just want the best phone with the most flexibility and software, it's definitely going to be on WM6.x for the forseeable future, as long as you're willing to mod your phone
I'd have to say you're far better off getting an iPhone and Jailbreaking it if you are allowing mods into the picture. There's already a lot of useful software from the App Store and from the jailbroken apps today.
Re: (Score:2)
The fight will be between Google and the Open Source community in one corner, Apple and its traditional strength in human factors in the second corner, and the Koreans with their history of innovative phone products in the third corner
And where does Symbian, an OS written by a British company and maintained by a Finnish one, which owns over 70% of the market share, fit in to this list?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It fits into the 2006 list. Symbian market share is now down to 55%, just as Microsoft's WiMo fell from 23% back in 2004 to today's 12%.
Nokia is taking over Symbian and making it into an open source foundation because royalties are dropping rapidly. Nobody wants to pay for OS software. Without revenues (down 14%), Symbian can't afford to invest in modernizing.
The era of Windows-like software platform licensing is over. From here on out, it will be integrated proprietary platforms (RIM and Apple) or free pla
Also glad to see some real competiton (Score:2)
Although I'm pretty much an Apple fanboy (based on how much better their products work -for me- versus the competition), I'm very excited to see competition based on real innovation, rather than on the Microsoft Monopoly's ability to seize and lock up the competition.
I totally agree.
I'm doing a lot of iPhone development right now, but can easily see adding some Android work at some point - but I'm happy to see a fight based on technical merits rather than other factors. I hope we can see at least a few go
Re: (Score:2)
Nokia/Ericsson/Scandanavia/Symbian have -not- produced the breakthrough devices that are represented by
a. Treo
b. Blackberry
c. iPhone
So I'd characterize them as "legacy" with the negatives that term can imply.
(you asked...)
dave
iPhone guts on HTC/Adroid hardware (Score:2)
Basically an iPhone with a slide-out keyboard. I just cannot manage the on-screen keyboard for love or money. I'd even settle for a Blackberry-type format of half screen half keyboard.
Unfortunately I know that with Jobs we'll never see an iPhone with a keyboard of any kind, so it looks like I'm stuck with WM for a while. My Moto Q mostly sucks (calls you can't end, crashing, slow), but ActiveStink works pretty well and the phone part generally works.
Typical Slashdot (Score:4, Insightful)
Let's not mention this:
Let's also not forget that for a significant number of business users, WM 6 is quite sufficient and still beats the iPhone, Android, and Blackberry hands-down in a corporate environment.
For proof, take a look at the latest WM6 phones from HTC and Samsung, such as the Touch Pro about to come out in a few weeks.
All of these competing phone OSes are making improvements (such as the iPhone 2's ability to activesync), but by the time they catch up with WM6 in the business world it will be 2010, when Microsoft has released WM7.
Gesture Recognition (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
WTF Mate?
Xbox? You know the console which is selling more games, movies, controllers and expansion packs than practically all of its competitors combined? Sure it's not selling like the Wii which is pretty much a WiiSports Box but it's selling very very well. Yeah. Let's fire Balmer for releasing the most popular gaming machine amongst gamers and giving microsoft a reputation for releasing cutting edge home entertainment gear?
Zune? Have you used a Zune? Argueably better than the iPod although less popu
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
BTW, palm wasn't good as an alarm clock either.
This is anecdotal, of course, but my Treo has reliably been my alarm clock for nearly two years.
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Re: (Score:2, Funny)
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Um, between Ballmer and Jobs, you've got the wrong reality-distorting Steve.